asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the report published by the Higher Education Authority in December 1988 (details supplied) which showed that only 25 per cent of school leavers from Dublin went to college, compared to 35 per cent in some western counties; and that school leavers from working class areas of Dublin were particularly disadvantaged; if she has any plans to bring about a more equitable distribution of third level places; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Third Level Places.
10.
I am aware of the findings in the recent Clancy report that admission rates in third level education vary by county in the range 19 per cent to 35 per cent and that the rate for Dublin is at the lower level. While some variation is inevitable I am concerned at the degree of variation.
I have asked the interdepartmental committee on third level education to give special attention to this issue and I will be considering what action should be taken after I have received the committee's report which I expect to receive in the next few months. It would be as well to point out that Patrick Clancy issued his first report which related to 1980 in 1983 and this one in 1986. The level of participation of the relevant age group in third level education increased from 20 per cent to 25 per cent between 1980 and 1986. This included very dramatic increases for some counties plus the stubborn persistence of Dublin not to increase——
The Clancy report also indicated that where third level colleges exist, more pupils from that area attend third level colleges. Would the Minister agree that in view of the high number of third level colleges in Dublin, there should be a higher proportion of pupils from Dublin? Having had the report for at least two months now, has the Minister analysed the cause of this and would she consider that the allocation of grants is one of the major causes of this imbalance? It is much more difficult for children of a PAYE worker to get a grant than it is for the children of self-employed people and farmers. Has the Minister any ideas for changing that?
There are no ready explanations for the level of variation shown — 20 per cent for Offaly, 23 per cent for Laois, but 30 per cent for Longford and 34 per cent for Leitrim. These figures are not easy to reconcile, and distance from and nearness to a third level institution do not appear to be major factors. One of the major factors in third level participation rates is that the participation rates to the end of second level education have dramatically increased as well, as the Conference for Major Religious Superiors acknowledged in their major report last autumn. A low participation level is probably linked to poor motivation and income levels in families in large population areas. The level of grant applicable is another factor and there has been growing concern at the preponderence of children of self-employed people receiving third level grants to the alleged detriment of PAYE workers' children.
Deputy Michael Higgins.
Has the Minister any intention to review the grant system?
I am at present reviewing that and I hope to bring proposals to Government shortly. Deputy Mac Giolla and other Deputies will appreciate that everybody agrees in theory but not in practice.
Try it out, Minister. They might.
Will the Minister assure the House that she is not accepting the logic of low motivation as a factor in participation? As referred to in the Dr. Clancy report, if we exclude people from the lower socio-economic groups in one generation we cannot then be surprised that their children are excluded because of the lack of adequate provision for their right to get into third level education.
The aim of any member of Government or Opposition must be to increase participation levels in general but in particular to address the position whereby lower socio-economic groupings' participation is so low that that imbalance must be addressed. Many factors come into play — increased participation at second level to the Leaving Certificate stage, the background of young people and even making the system of entry to third level education more understandable in a general way. I am very busy with all that work now and I hope to have some proposals in place quite shortly.
To what does the Minister attribute the very wide variation of which she has just spoken, and would she accept that in the case of Dublin there are whole belts of the city with very low participation rates? Would the Minister agree that it is possible to address that problem by the provision of the RTC in Tallaght which has been long promised?
Absolutely.
Would the Minister also agree that a possible explanation for the variation is a very much lower opportunity to avail of Social Fund supporting courses in the Dublin area than elsewhere? Will the Minister look at that element? Is it not the case that the percentage of courses available in Dublin that would enjoy Social Fund support is much lower than elsewhere?
The level of certificate courses which are nearly all funded partly by Europe and by the Department is certainly lower in the VEC colleges in the Dublin area than in any of the nine RTCs around the country, which appear to run courses suitable for the allocations of the money. I have not a ready explanation. There are a variety of causes. I agree that the provision of a technical college in Tallaght would certainly help to redress some of the imbalances that have arisen. For that reason I put it forward for inclusion in the Structural Funds.
Question No. 11 please.
Is that a new Tallaght strategy, Minister.
That is up to Fine Gael.
Question No. 11 please.