Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Jul 1989

Vol. 391 No. 6

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 10 (Votes 26 to 29, 41, 32 and 30). In the case of Votes 26 to 29, inclusive, the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speech of the Minister opening the debate shall not exceed 20 minutes; (ii) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 15 minutes; and (iii) the Minister shall be entitled to not less than five minutes for a speech in reply.

It is also proposed that statements, not exceeding 15 minutes in each case, shall be made now under Standing Order 41, by spokespersons nominated by each of the parties, regarding the European Council in Madrid.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the arrangements for dealing with votes 26 to 29, inclusive, agreed to? Agreed. Is the time limit on statements agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Yates

I should like to ask the Taoiseach if the Government propose to amend the National Lottery Act, 1986, in view of the commitment to implement the all-party committee report on the national lottery allocation of funds. If so, when?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is this promised legislation?

The Taoiseach

No legislation was promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

It does not refer to legislation on the Order Paper or promised——

Mr. Dukes

Another broken promise.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Yates will have to find another way of raising that matter as it is not in order now.

Mr. Yates

I fail to see how promised legislation last week is not promised legislation this week.

An Ceann Comhairle

I think the Deputy is indicating that he wishes to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Yates

I understand it is not in order to raise promised legislation on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am seeking to assist the Deputy.

Mr. Yates

I appreciate that but this legislation was promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy Yates, we cannot argue the matter now.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the reported sale of Cablelink.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. McCartan

In view of the fact that the Child Care Bill is now restored to the Order Paper by way of motion, has the Taoiseach had an opportunity to consider the establishment of a committee to work during the summer months to deal with Committee Stage of this very important legislation?

The Taoiseach

Not yet.

Mr. McCartan

I wish to remind the Taoiseach that tomorrow is the proposed last sitting day and that it is important to introduce a motion in the House to establish such a committee to work on it over the summer months.

The Taoiseach

I am aware of the Deputy's position.

Mr. Connaughton

Is the new Minister for Industry and Commerce aware of the fact that the Goodman International Group intend to build their meat factory in Tuam?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not in order now, Deputy.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. O'Malley)

That is a matter which would come within the ambit of the Department of Agriculture and Food rather than my Department.

Mr. Connaughton

I asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce about this matter because all the Deputies on that side of the House were very much associated with its announcement.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mr. Dukes

It is the soft shoe shuffle.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy's party closed the Tuam factory.

Mr. Connaughton

The Taoiseach did not oppose it.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is leading to disorder. I am calling Deputy Ferris.

Mr. Ferris

Is it the intention of the Minister for Agriculture and Food to list the sheep disease, jaaqsikite, as a notifiable disease? If he is not prepared to give me a positive response, I wish to raise this important matter on the Adjournment as it affects the national sheep flock.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy concerning his desire to raise the matter on the Adjournment. It is not in order now.

Mr. S. Barrett

I wish to ask the Taoiseach when it is proposed to introduce promised legislation in relation to the establishment of a new civil court of appeal.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is hardly in order now, Deputy.

Mr. S. Barrett

Will the Taoiseach say——

An Ceann Comhairle

Is it promised legislation?

Mr. S. Barrett

Yes.

The Taoiseach

I will explain my position on this matter. There is a programme for government which will be fully implemented in due course——

Mr. S. Barrett

When?

The Taoiseach

My interpretation of promised legislation for the purpose of raising the matter on the Order of Business is legislation which is specifically promised by a member of the Government.

Mr. S. Barrett

Excuses.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us not argue about the matter now.

Mr. S. Barrett

I will stand up for my right to ask questions in this new Dáil.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

You have asked a question, Deputy.

Mr. S. Barrett

I will not be silenced once again. They are not a minority Government any more and do not have to be protected.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Barrett.

Mr. S. Barrett

The Taoiseach is a member of the Government and he promised this legislation. Do not be copping out, a Cheann Comhairle, you did not even know yesterday what legislation was promised.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. S. Barrett

You can run for the Park——

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Wilson)

The Deputy is supposed to address the Chair. I am afraid of him when he addresses me directly.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Barrett, please desist. The Taoiseach is seeking to answer a question.

The Taoiseach

I have no reply to that truculence.

Mr. S. Barrett

The arrogance is in evidence.

Mr. Yates

On a point of order, the Taoiseach said——

An Ceann Comhairle

As far as I am concerned, that matter has been disposed of and it is not a point of order. The Deputy is ignoring the Chair and has been continuously disorderly this morning. I ask him now to resume his seat forthwith.

Mr. Dukes

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Dukes, allow us to proceed in an orderly fashion.

Mr. Dukes

I would like to establish one thing from you, Sir. Is it the case, and is it the ruling of the Chair, that nothing the Government say outside the House about their legislative intentions may be questioned here? Is it, therefore, the case that the Government can gaily promise anything they like outside the House without being subject to scrutiny in the House in relation to those promises?

An Ceann Comhairle

There are many ways and means of raising such matters.

Mr. Dukes

The Chair has not answered my question. I put a direct question to the Chair about the ruling of the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the legislation is promised a question may be raised about it.

Mr. S. Barrett

That is what is in this document.

Mr. Dukes

Is the Chair saying that the Government can promise anything they like outside the House and that he will not allow us to take them to task and account for those promises in the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not going to get involved in controversy of that kind.

The Taoiseach

I should like to make a point of order on behalf of the Government. The position in regard to most of these matters which Deputies, from Fine Gael in particular, are endeavouring to raise on the Order of Business is that they are perfectly suitable and will be fully answered as normal questions. I suggest to you, Sir, that that is the way Deputies should proceed about any of these matters.

Mr. S. Barrett

This is promised legislation and we are entitled to know about it.

Mr. Dukes

I want a reply to my normal question. When one seeks a reply to such a question at Question Time your response is that Question Time is not the time to discuss proposed legislation. That is a catch 22 and you are not going to have it both ways.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am seeking to get order for Deputy Quinn. I have called Deputy Quinn many times and he should be allowed to proceed.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

I wish to raise a point of order.

Mr. Spring

This is a bit of a farce at this stage.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

We have touched on a most serious issue. I suggest that it is a matter for you, as Cheann Comhairle, to interpret the relevant Standing Order and it is not a matter for the Taoiseach to give his interpretation and by so doing to limit the rights of Members of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will do his duty fairly, impartially and without intimidation from any side of the House.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

I am not trying to intimidate the Chair but to get a fair resolution to this problem. Do you accept that it is your duty, your right and your responsibility as Cheann Comhairle to interpret Standing Orders and what is promised legislation? Will you accept that it is not correct that the Taoiseach should give his interpretation and that we should all be forced to accept it?

Mr. Calleary

The only problem is that the Deputy does not accept that.

An Ceann Comhairle

The position appertaining to promised legislation is quite clear. I propose to issue later, perhaps, tomorrow morning a more detailed reply.

Mr. J. O. 'Keeffe

And we will debate it then.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will not debate it.

Mr. Quinn

Now that the Fine Gael Party have allowed me to speak I should like to state that the Chair has answered the question I was about to put. Deputy Haughey, the Taoiseach, who has been here for many years is entitled to his opinion as to what is a precedent. If there is a dispute about this issue there is an orderly way to resolve it. I welcome the fact that the Ceann Comhairle will do that, otherwise we will have a repetition of this kind of mishmash of questions. I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the position of a prisoner in the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum who has sought release on medical grounds but who has so far been denied that release.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Deasy

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the need for an air conditioning system in this building.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

I share the Deputy's anxiety in respect of that matter.

Mr. Barry

Something should be put over Deputy Wilson's head because he is getting very excited.

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter is having our constant attention.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

I suggest that we should all work in our shirt sleeves today.

An Ceann Comhairle

I propose to bring the matter before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges as soon as possible with a view to having something positive done concerning proper air conditioning of the Chamber and the House generally.

Mr. Connor

I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he has entered into any deals, promises, undertakings, or guarantees with any Member of the House since the general election in relation to hospital services in County Roscommon. I beg the indulgence of the Chair in regard to this matter because I placed this question before the Taoiseach through the medium of a parliamentary question but he deflected it, or passed it on to the Minister for Health. In my view the Minister for Health has no relevance in answering that question because I am referring to undertakings or promises that have been reputedly entered into by the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will understand that there are some questions on today's Order Paper appertaining to that subject matter.

Mr. Connor

They have been tabled to the Minister for Health but he is not the proper person to answer them.

An Ceann Comhairle

They are on the Order Paper and will be dealt with in the ordinary way.

Mr. Connor

May I raise this issue on the Adjournment?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. M. Higgins

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the crisis that has arisen in general within the civil legal aid system, but in particular in regard to the legal aid centres that have been forced to temporarily close. In particular, I am referring to the Galway office.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. O'Shea

I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the crisis in the school transport system, arising from a £5.7 million under-provision. What is facing us as the new school year rapidly approaches is a curtailed service which will have grave consequences for school children.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Gregory

I should like to ask the Taoiseach, in regard to his proposed meetings with party leaders concerning the setting up of the structure of Dáil committees, if he will bear in mind that there are six Members not represented by party leaders. Is it his intention to ensure that these Members are not excluded from membership of those committees?

The Taoiseach

These matters, I hope, will be dealt with in a very civilised manner by the Whips and, ultimately, with advice from the Ceann Comhairle. Of course, the Independent Deputies have the remedy in their own hands; they may join one of the many excellent parties in the House.

Mr. Stagg

In view of the fact that there is no political education in schools, and the wide recognition of the need for it, and in view of the undertaking to consult with the National Youth Council of Ireland on grants for political youth officers, is it the intention of the Minister for Education to make a statement to the House on the reason for her unilateral, arbitrary and extraordinary axing of the grants for youth officers?

An Ceann Comhairle

I wonder if that is in order now.

Mr. Stagg

I am sure it is because we are expecting a statement today.

Mr. J. Bruton

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the issue of the lack of funding by the State of the Consumers' Association of Ireland and the fact that counterpart EC funds are being lost to the country because that association are unable to play their part.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter that should be raised in another way.

Mr. J. Bruton

I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Allen

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the issue of the Incorporated Law Society's entrance examination and the use by the ILS of examiners who do not have law degrees.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. McGrath

In view of the decision to open part of the general hospital in Mullingar on 1 August by the Minister and the lack of facilities for children in Counties Longford and Westmeath, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the need for a paediatric unit in Mullingar General Hospital.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Gilmore

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the proposed sale of Carysfort College in view of the fact that the sale is due to be completed by 14 September and that there has been a large State investment in that college.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the waiting lists at the Eye and Ear Hospital, Dublin, and, in particular, the fact that 600 senior citizens are awaiting cataract operations.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Rabbitte

I should like to raise on the Adjournment the unprecedented problem that has arisen at St. James's Hospital, the largest hospital in the country, and the Government's response to it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Sheehan

I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he is aware of the long delays which exist in the Land Registry office with regard to applications for land dealing certificates and the steps he intends to take to expedite——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should put down a question in respect of that matter.

Mr. Sheehan

This is a very serious matter and the Taoiseach should be able to give me some assurance.

Mr. J. Higgins

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the urgent need for the Government and the Minister for Finance to seriously consider the option of global discretionary grants from the EC which would be made available for local initiatives.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with Deputy Higgins in respect of that matter.

Mr. Sheehan

I ask your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to raise on the Adjournment the matter to which I referred.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. J. Bruton

May I ask the Taoiseach when the long-promised patents legislation is likely to be published? Is it likely to be published during the recess?

The Taoiseach

I will have to communicate with the Deputy about that matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Can we proceed to a statement by the Taoiseach?