Nuala Fennell
Ceist:6 Mrs. Fennell asked the Minister for Defence the plans he has to recruit more women into the Army; and to extend their duties.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Recruitment.
Subject to budgetary constraints and operational requirements, it is intended to expand the opportunities over the coming years for women to serve in the Defence Forces.
This year, for the first time, girls have been admitted on an equal footing with boys to the competitions which are being held for apprenticeships in the Permanent Defence Force.
Furthermore, it is proposed, also for the first time, to recruit about 200 women — I have already referred to this — into the FCA. Recruitment is expected to commence next month.
I thank the Minister of State for his answer but I assure him it is a very depressing picture and the situation has not changed in the past six or seven years. Is it not time that the bar on women taking part in combat duties should be lifted? Should women in the Army not be brought under the Employment Equality Agency and under equality legislation? Is it not time that it should be possible for women who want to be involved in active combat duty to be allowed do so? I would remind the Minister of the role of women in the Gulf War and in Grenada where they served in combat forces of the US Army. Is the Minister not aware that a lot more happens in armies than people going around killing each other? Will the Minister give an assurance that the commitment given by the former Minister for Defence to review the whole area of legislation which so inhibits women in the Army will be forthcoming from him?
The Deputy has made the point adequately.
We have seen a great deal of progress in this area in the past few years.
What progress?
In fact, Deputy Fennell was a member of the Government and she will recall very vividly that she was responsible for women's affairs. During that period she was unfortunately not successful in persuading the Government——
That was six years ago.
——to recruit women into the Defence Forces at that time. A great deal of progress has been made.
What progress?
Progress has been slow but every effort is being made to improve the situation. I am quite confident that in the future we will see many improvements in the area in every respect.
Until such time as there is a change in fundamental policy about the duties to be assigned to women members and until we get away from the practice that women be assigned to slopping out stables, blowing musical instruments and looking after cook houses in the Defence Forces and they are allowed take up active service duties the prospect of making real progress and increasing the representation of women in the Defence Forces is not likely at all.
Unfortunately, a Cheann Comhairle, Deputy McCartan's comments and remarks are very demeaning to the women in the Defence Forces.
It is the way they are treated.
The women occupy various ranks within the Permanent Defence Forces and, as I have already indicated, they are doing an excellent job in many different ways and not in the types of tasks the Deputy is talking about in a very insulting fashion. I really wish that the Deputy would not demean women in that way.
I am touched by the Minister of State's concern for women. I believe that women do not fulfil a worthwhile role because all the worthwhile roles in the Army are filled by men. Would the Minister consider the fundamental question of the protective paternalism or paternal protectionism which is perpetuated year after year here as well as everywhere else. It is unnecessary. It should be examined and challenged to enable those women who want to be part of the combat force and make a career in the Army — I would not want to, and many other people would not want to — but the women who want to should have the choice.
As you already said earlier, Deputy, there is more to membership of an army than fighting. On the two occasions I have been out to visit our troops in the Lebanon there was a number of women serving with our forces and working with their male counterparts side by side. That is a very progressive step and it is improving all the time. There has even been a further development, as I indicated in response to your question, because for the first time girls have been admitted to apprenticeships. That type of progress will continue.
Let us make some progress. A brief question, Deputy.
Obviously improvements have been made, but they have been made very slowly. Could the Minister give a commitment to the House that women will have equal opportunities of recruitment to all positions in the Army, be it apprenticeships, regulars or cadets? Will he have the present structures examined so that women can be given equal opportunities right across the board in the Army? The women are out in Lebanon working side by side with their male colleagues, but the Minister is implying that they are there as an addendum to the male soldiers. Can the Minister reverse that?
Equality is what it is all about. We all want equality.
(Interruptions.)