I move:
That a sum not exceeding £19,968,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1991, for the salaries and expenses of the Central Statistics Office.
Estimates 1991. - Vote 4: Central Statistics Office.
The Estimate for 1991 for the Central Statistics Office of £20.0 million represents an increase of £12.7 million or 177 per cent on the provisional out-turn for 1990. This exceptionally large increase is required almost entirely to provide for the costs of two censuses, the 1991 census of population and the 1991 census of agriculture. Around 3,500 temporary field staff were recruited for the census of population. Approximately 1,500 of these have been retained for the census of agriculture.
The census of agriculture was originally scheduled for 1990, but was postponed until 1991 and for reasons of efficiency and economy is being carried out as an extension of the 1991 census of population field operation thereby saving approximately £1.5 million. There were also strong statistical grounds for linking the two censuses, namely, the increased scope for analyses of the farming community.
The census of population was taken on Sunday, 21 April. The majority of the million census forms have now been collected by the census enumerators. The House will be glad to hear that reports from the field staff indicate that the whole operation went very smoothly.
I would like to take this opportunity to place on record the Government's appreciation of the efficiency of Central Statistics Office staff in conducting the census and the wholehearted co-operation received from the public.
The Central Statistics Office have already started the processing work to ensure the early publication of the preliminary results. Population estimates, classified by sex for each county and county borough, are expected to be released towards the end of July. This will allow firm estimates of net migration for the five-year period since the 1986 census to be derived. A further preliminary report to be issued by the end of September will, for the first time, provide an age breakdown of the preliminary population figures.
The definitive population results for 1991 will be published on a county by county basis in two series of local population reports according as the results for individual counties are finalised. The traditional series of detailed publications relating to particular topics will also be produced and the detailed small area statistics will again be made available.
I have gone into this topic in some detail so that the House will be aware of the extent of the work involved in processing the census returns. The distribution and collection of the completed forms is only part of the operation. Behind the scenes a massive amount of work goes on in advance of the census in designating enumeration areas, preparing maps, recruiting field staff, etc. The processing of returns will continue for some time in order to provide a detailed analysis of the population.
The census of agriculture is also a very large operation, exceeded in size only by the census of population. The reference date for this census is 1 June 1991. The fieldwork will commence on 4 June and continue until the end of July 1991. It will cover approximately 200,000 farms. Details will be collected by personal interview. The questionnaire was drawn up after consultation with users in Government Departments and other relevant interests.
Preliminary results from the census are expected to be available around the middle of next year. As I have already mentioned, the linkage between the census of agriculture and the census of population will facilitate the preparation of an expanded range of analyses relating to the farming community. The census of agriculture will also be used to construct an up-to-date statistical register of farms which will act as a basis for subsequent regular sample farm surveys.
The two censuses account for more than half of the Central Statistics Office's Estimate for 1991. The remainder covers all the other Central Statistics Office activities. These are almost all of an ongoing nature, comprising a variety of monthly, quarterly or annual inquiries in the following areas: agriculture; services; industry, building and construction; national accounts; balance of payments; labour statistics; tourism and travel; external trade; transport; prices. Apart from these regular activities, the Central Statistics Office also undertake perodic inquiries such as the household budget survey and labour costs survey.
I will briefly describe some of these activities so that the House will have an appreciation of the extent of the statistical services provided by the Central Statistics Office. Before I do this I would just point out that the statistical programme of the EC is being adapted significantly to provide an effective information system for the post 1992 Internal Market. These developments will bear heavily on the Central Statistics Office but I am confident that the office will cope efficiently and professionally, as they have done in the past.
Deregulation arising from the completion of the Internal Market will result in the disappearance of some statistical data sources, (for example intra-EC trade data from customs sources and balance of payments data from exchange controls). New systems will be put in place to ensure the continuance of these statistical series. Inter-departmental committees examined the alternative data collection systems and reports recommending adoption of new procedures are almost complete.
Let me start with agricultural statistics. Apart from the census of agriculture, which I have referred to already, there are other farm surveys and agriculture inquiries. In addition to meeting national needs, much of the output also goes towards complying with mandatory community information requirements.
In 1990 all farm surveys were conducted by post. This included the major June and December surveys, which covered more than 25,000 farms and achieved good response rates of around 80 per cent. The introduction of this more cost effective postal survey system in place of the former enumerator-based system is part of an overall programme to modernise and develop farm surveys in Ireland. This programme is partly funded by the EC and will conclude this year with the taking of the census of agriculture.
The services sector has been one of the engines of employment growth in recent years and a number of statistical inquiries have been undertaken here. The 1988 census of services incorporated for the first time a census of employment for service sectors in general together with a detailed census of distribution, which collected traditional details on turnover, purchases, stocks, wages and salaries, etc. Retail and wholesale trades were last covered in the 1977 census of distribution. Other services were surveyed for the first time because of their increasing importance to the economy. First results for the retail and wholesale sectors were published last November.
The results of a new quarterly inquiry covering the financial services sector were published in January 1990. These consist of estimates of total employment and indices of weekly earnings for the sector as a whole and for three main sectors.
A wide range of statistics are compiled for the industrial and building sectors. There is an annual census of industrial production, an annual census of building and construction, various monthly and quarterly inquiries, and a quarterly analysis of planning permissions granted.
Last February the CSO inaugurated a new quarterly statistical release containing results from the quantity surveyors' inquiry, which is conducted jointly by the CSO and the Department of the Environment. The aim of the inquiry is to monitor output of the non-residential building sector.
A major area of activity within the CSO relates to the preparation of national accounts and associated statistics. This draws heavily on the results of many other CSO inquiries and additional information from a wide range of sources. The national accounts results for 1989 were published in October 1990. It is planned to improve this publication schedule and provision is being made to allocate additional staff to the area so that results can be published within six months of the end of the reference year.
A critical point has been reached in the development of balance of payments statistics because of the progressive disappearance of data from exchange control sources. A new system is under examination which will take some time to implement and, in the interim, it is necessary for the CSO to undertake additional direct inquiries to replace, as far as possible, the data being lost through exchange control liberalisation.
Another important area of activity for the CSO is the production of statistics on employment, unemployment and the labour force. The end-month live register count is the most widely known indicator of unemployment because of its monthly frequency and timeliness of publication. The live register statement is compiled by the CSO from returns received from the 130 local employment exchanges throughout the country. It provides a valuable short-term indicator of the trend of unemployment between the results of successive annual labour force surveys. However, because of the complexity of its administrative regulations and contribution conditions, it should never be regarded as an objective measure of the absolute level of unemployment.
The results of the annual labour force surveys provide the definitive measure of employment and unemployment. These surveys are carried out as part of an EC-wide programme of surveys designed to give comparable information on employment, unemployment and the labour force in all member states. In Ireland the labour force survey covers over 45,000 households. Preliminary results for 1990 were released in October 1990. The detailed results for 1990 are expected shortly. Fieldwork for the 1991 labour force survey has just concluded.
Tourism and travel statistics are compiled from continuing sample surveys at the principal air and sea ports. The survey results, in conjunction with passenger numbers provided by airport authorities and carriers, are used to estimate the numbers of visits to Ireland by non-residents and their expenditure in this country, and the corresponding figures for Irish residents visiting other countries.
Extensive statistics on imports and exports at detailed commodity level are compiled each month from customs documentation. This data source for intra-EC trade statistics will disappear on the completion of the Single Market in 1993. An interdepartmental committee will shortly make recommendations on the most effective and economical administrative arrangements needed for the compilation of reliable trade statistics post-1992.
Central Statistics Office statistics are published immediately they become available in regular statistical releases issued through the Government Information Services, periodicals and detailed publications. Custom designed special analyses are also provided on a fee basis. Selections of data from the Central Statistics Office data bank, officially inaugurated in 1987, are also available on diskette for micro-computer users. Considerable improvements have been made in Central Statistics Office dissemination services in recent years and a more commercial oriented approach has also been adopted. The existing dissemination and marketing strategy is currently being assessed by external consultants. The Central Statistics Office have, of course, a fully networked computer system linking their three separate offices based on the most up-to-date technology. The improvement of the system in recent years has resulted in greater efficiencies, improved publication schedules and increased flexibility in statistical analyses.
Before I conclude I would like to make a brief reference to the National Statistics Board who were established in 1986 in line with the proposals contained in the Government White Paper A New Institutional Structure For The Central Statistics Office. The board's function is to guide the strategic direction of the Central Statistics Office and to establish priorities for the compilation and development of official statistics. The board have met regularly since their foundation.
The first major task the board undertook was to decide on priorities for official statistics, timetables for achieving them and a recommendation for Government approval concerning the resources of staffing, equipment and finances that should be made available to the Central Statistics Office over the five year period 1988-92. The results of this assessment appeared in the May 1988 board report Strategy For Statistics 1988-1992, which was accepted by Government. Progress on the implementation of this strategy was reviewed by the board in their 1989 and 1990 reports. Their 1991 report is being prepared.
The Central Statistics Office operate under the provisions of the Statistics Acts, 1926 and 1946. New legislation is being prepared. This will provide the legal basis for the National Statistics Board and for other provisions in the Government White Paper mentioned earlier. It will also update aspects of the existing legislation.
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, before I reply in my capacity as Fine Gael spokesperson for the Public Service and Constitutional Reform I would like, in my other capacity as chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, to take the opportunity to place on the record my appreciation and that of the Committee of Public Accounts of the work of Mr. Thomas P. Linehan, the outgoing Accounting Officer. I did not realise the last time he came before the Committee that it would be his last appearance, and I want to take this opportunity to place on the record of the House my appreciation and the appreciation of the Committee of Public Accounts of his excellent work in his capacity as Accounting Officer. I hope the Minister and his colleagues will pass that message on to him.
The House will join in those complimentary words.
The Minister correctly states that the Central Statistics Office currently operate under the 1926 and 1946 legislation. Confidentiality is legally guaranteed under the Statistics Act, 1926, where it is made an offence for officers to disclose information subject to a fine not exceeding £50 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both fine and such imprisonment. I am quoting from section 14 (2) of the Statistics Act, 1926.
Since the Government will be updating the legislation concerning the compilation of statistics and introducing a new statistics Bill, I think the fine of £50, which was a very significant sum in 1926, is no longer significant and a more substantial fine should be considered. It is not that I have any doubts about looseness in the confidentiality surrounding the compilation of statistics but I do feel that is a derisory sum.
I understand that a new statistics Bill which is at an advanced stage of preparation will include institutionalising the National Statistics Board, assigning greater power to the Central Statistics Office for co-ordinating statistics and reinforcing the confidential basis of data and other provisions. It would seem that whereas penalties are very easily applied and the confidentiality of statistics, to my knowledge, is certainly protected, there are certain loose ends which I feel should be addressed. For instance, when the persons in the field are collecting these statistics forms from persons in public life or who are well known, they leave the form and write the name of the person on top of it. It asks for some very confidential information indeed in relation to religion, personal family matters, income, etc. It would be better if, instead of scribbling on the envelope the name of the family or the person returning the form, the complier got back the form in a sealed envelope and that those envelopes would only be opened by a senior official of the Central Statistics Office. That is a minor weakness which should be addressed.
When the legislation is addressing the question of the correct use of statistics and the institutionalising of the National Statistics Board it is going to be very difficult to lay any grounds for planning here which is the whole purpose of statistics, because of the level and type of emigration we have. There are already 750,000 people of Irish birth living in Britain. The source of that information is evidence presented to a committee of this House and I think in reply to a question in this House, but that figure is correct. That figure does not take into account the huge number of emigrants who are moving in and our of the country regularly. Statistics as currently compiled take no account of the enormous number of Irish citizens living in such close proximity to this island who could return here in given circumstances, such as an economic boom, a security crisis or a serious decline in the British economy or the economy of other countries. It is time statistics took account of the emigrant population and some provision was made in the calculation of statistics to take account of the possible needs of Irish emigrants. There is little point in planning for the future of a country with so many people abroad, some of them in such proximity to the State, without taking into account their needs, age structure and possible future abroad or in this State.
There is a further gap in the compilation of statistics. As will be evidenced by the CSO Guide to Publications and Information Services 1991, published by the Central Statistics Office, the compilation of statistics seeks all kinds of personal information. It seeks information about religion, fertility in marriage, marital status, income and matters of that kind, but in my view it makes no provision for census of ethnic groups. It is possible that ethnic groups could be identified by, for instance, the Moslem religion. In the inner city part of my constituency there has been a significant growth in the Moslim community. There are more Moslems in my constituency now than there are Jews and, possibly, than there are Protestants.
I do not know what the statistics will indicate, but Dublin is becoming a multi-racial city of people of various colours and religions or none, and no provision is made in our planning and compilation of statistics for that. I want to make it clear that people, no matter what colour, religion or background, who are entitled by law to be here are welcome but we are wrong not to take account of it statistically, not to plan for it, not to plan for the integration — not assimilation — of those people so that their traditions, religions and ethnic character can be provided for. They are not being planned or provided for. We do not want to see a Brixton situation develop or the numbers growing, particularly in certain parts of the capital city, or any other city, without planning and providing for their needs.
Because in the compilation of statistics some very personal questions are asked we should try to measure the multi-racial development in Dublin and its likely future evolution. If we do not do that we are undermining the whole purpose of statistics, which is to plan for the proper evolution and development of this city.
I would like to quote from Irish Official Statistics Background Details and Data Sources, published by the Central Statistics Office, which states:
The Central Statistics Office has coped well with EC demands despite its limited resources. Because of Community membership Ireland is required to develop a sophisticated statistical system appropriate to a world trading power. This is something which a small country would not normally aspire to. Although welcome from a statistical viewpoint EC statistical requirements give rise to disproportionately high resource requirements in the Irish context mainly because:
*Economies of scale in the compilation of statistics are such that it is relatively more expensive for small countries to conduct surveys;
*Small countries have to survey a proportionately higher number of statistical units than larger ones to produce estimates in the detail normally required by the EC.
An increased momentum for the further development of the Community statistical system has recently commenced in the context of the post-1992 Single Market. The Commission's intention is to move national statistical services towards a single integrated federal system of the standard required for the efficient operation of the Single Market. These developments will be underpinned by Community legislation to measure conformity. A number of initiatives have already been taken to set these developments in train. The result of this will be a further increase in EC statistical demands on the Central Statistics Office.
I apologise for the length of that quotation but I wanted to get it on the record because it is clear that for the size of the country greater demands are being put on our statistical compilation resources than on other EC member states in order to meet EC membership requirements, particularly post-1992 Single Market statistical requirements.
This should be accompanied by a greater allocation of resources for the compilation of the statistics by direct transfer of resources from the EC to this country in order that we can meet this disproportionate part of the burden which has been placed on us by these requirements. We already receive certain EC support and backing in the Central Statistics Office, but where disproportionate requirements are being placed on the shoulders of the Central Statistics Office and the statistical compilation systems, here the EC should take account of that and make resources available accordingly.
The NESC in 1985, on information for policy said, as recorded in their report that their "consultant in his report, identified a lack of any central focus for decision-making in relation to statistics as a whole which could set standards, monitor performance, help allocate resources and give policy advice across the range of statistical output". The report stated that the Council recommended that the Central Statistics Office should prepare both a short-term programme and also a longer term rolling programme to provide a coherent planning framework.
I ask the Minister to assure the House that such a short-term and long-term rolling comprehensive programme has been put in place. That NESC report continued:
The ability of computerised systems to process rapidly large amounts of data greatly enhances the potential for using administrative records in providing valuable information which might otherwise be available only at considerable cost. Both the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Welfare, for example, have in their administrative records a vast amount of data on incomes and patterns of employment.
The Council has previously drawn attention to the lack of information on the changing distribution of income and also on the altered structure of employment, particularly in respect of the services sector. There is clearly great potential in using administrative records to provide comprehensive and up-to-date information for policy, particularly by the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Welfare.
The NESC identified an area which clearly could be used to enhance the statistical compilation role of the CSO. However, it would have to be made very clear that the use of any information by the CSO which is extracted from the files of the Revenue Commissioners or the Department of Social Welfare must be bound by the section of the 1926 Act and the new Act to be introduced governing confidentiality. In other words, if the recommendations of NESC are to be taken up, clear safeguards must be put in place to ensure that the confidentiality of a social welfare return or a return to the inspector of taxes, the Revenue Commissioners, is not in any way watered down, interfered with, identified or made public. On that basis and on the basis that the normal fines are increased, as I have suggested, the NESC report has much to commend it. I wanted to enter that caveat.
I have given the Deputy some latitude on the matter. We are debating an Estimate and the debate would more appropriately be confined to that Estimate and the events of the year to which it refers. The Deputy is proceeding to advocate legislation in this area. I have allowed the Deputy some latitude but I want to remind him that he is going outside the scope of the debate.
The appointment of a director general for the Central Statistics Office whose salary is provided for in the £20 million Estimate moved by the Minister of State seems to be a little unusual in so far as, I understand it, he will be appointed by the President on the recommendation of the Government but the Taoiseach will continue to retain responsibility. It seems to be unusual to say the lease that we should be providing in this Estimate for a salary for a director general who will be appointed by the President but who will continue in some shape or form to be under the supervision or direction of the Taoiseach of the day. Perhaps the Minister in his reply will explain the thinking behind this proposal.
With regard to tourism and travel, the Minister in his speech said:
Tourism and travel statistics are compiled from continuing sample surveys at the principal air and sea ports. The survey results, in conjunction with passenger numbers provided by airport authorities and carriers, are used to estimate the numbers of visits to Ireland by non-residents and their expenditure in this country, and the corresponding figures for Irish residents visiting other countries.
Every time any one of the 750,000 Irish-born people living in Britain or other emigrants living abroad visit this country they are recorded as a tourist. Every time Jack Charlton and the Irish football team visit Ireland they are recorded as tourists. If you have a niece, nephew, brother or sister living in London and they come home for a family occasion, a funeral, wedding or birthday, or for any other reason they are recorded as tourists. Our tourist statistics, based on the calculations outlined by the Minister, clearly overstate our level of tourism and are allowing the industry to build on shifting sand. Based on what the Minister has said and our high level emigration, it is very clear that our tourism statistics do not give a true view of the actual number of tourists who have visited this country in recent years.
It can be argued that this method of calculation is used in other countries. However, other countries do not have the same shifting population we have. I doubt very much if a person who lives in Brussels, who has to take a train to Paris to work and another train home at weekends or vice versa is recorded as a tourist. People coming through our ports are recorded and are included in the statistics on the number of people visiting this country. Based on these statistics, we are told that there has been a 15 per cent increase in tourism already this year and that there will be a further increase as this year progresses. However, our tourism statistics are inaccurate. The wrong system is being used to calculate the number of tourists coming here and it does not reflect the correct level of tourism to this country. In so far as the £20 million we are voting here tonight provides for staff to go out and calculate tourism statistics, I say to the Minister that they should be given a different way of doing this job. They should be given a more factual brief and be allowed to calculate tourism on the actual number of tourists coming here. It is not fair to them that they should have to use the present system.
The CSO Guide to Publications and Information Services under the heading “Volume 6 — An Ghaeilge/Irish Language” states:
This volume gives the number and percentage, distinguishing males and females, of Irish speakers in each province, county and county borough classified by age group and highest type of educational establishment attended full-time with separate information for the Gaeltacht areas of each county The number of Irish speakers is expressed as a percentage of the total in each group and are also classified by occupation. Additional information on a household basis is also provided.
In so far as we are spending money in compiling, computerising and processing information about the number of people who can speak Irish, I would have to say that the present statistical information is very ambiguous, open to over and understatement and does not properly calculate the ability of people to speak Irish. This is an issue which needs to be reexamined because — if I am permitted a passing remark — the future of the Irish language lies in Dublin and other urban areas and not so much in the Gaeltacht. There is a mushrooming of all-Irish primary schools in our capital city and we need to more accurately calculate the statistics in relation to Irish so that we can provide the necessary secondary schools as pupils come on stream. I do not believe the present figures allow for this.
I want to mention in passing the early release of unemployment figures last year. Even though a thorough investigation was carried out it was never discovered from where the leak emanated. This leak of information benefited some people on the Stock Exchange and those who were able to take advantage of the early announcement of those figures. It is worrying that the leak could not be traced. If we are voting £20 million for the Central Statistics Office, this House is entitled to believe that if there is a recurrence of this type of leak or if there is any other leak it should be possible to trace it. The numbers of people who have availability of information on pre-publication basis should be such that it is easy to trace a leak. This is an area of concern and one which should not go without mention in this House. If statistics of the kind in question can benefit people financially that should give rise to those figures being jealously guarded and protected and to any leaks being easily pursued.
I want to make one appeal. In the use of the moneys we are voting for statistical research persons, temporary field staff and people who are in any way involved on a temporary or other basis in employment in the Central Statistics Office, sufficient priority is not being given to unemployed persons. There is a large number of unemployed who would be very happy to have one of these 3,500 temporary field staff jobs which the Minister referred to in his opening remarks. Most of the time those jobs are given to people who got them last year or the year before, some of whom already have jobs or are married to people who have good jobs. Given the present high rate of unemployment, we should make a very special effort to include the maximum possible number of unemployed people in the 3,500 temporary field staff when they are being recruited. That should be to the forefront of our planning and our consideration when we are taking on these staff.
I have made some critical remarks about what I consider to be weaknesses in the compilation of statistics, weaknesses which need to be strengthened. As main Opposition spokesman in an adversarial system, that is my duty. Nonetheless, I would not wish to take from the good work being done by the Central Statistics Office, which is greatly appreciated. I do not want to take from their great efforts, and I compliment them on the efforts they make to keep their work confidential and on the manner in which they go about modernising their work. Where there are weaknesses they need to be put right and where there are shortcomings they need to be redressed. I trust the Minister will take account of the areas I have mentioned in this context.
I will not detain the House very long. I congratulate the staff and the officers of the Central Statistics Office. All political groupings use statistics provided by the CSO so we are indebted to them. The most common monthly live register figures, released particularly over the last three consecutive months, have shown an increase in the numbers joining dole queues. These monthly figures drive home the stark realities of where Irish society is going today under the present Coalition Government.
Why does the Estimate come so late in the day, particularly the portion to pay for the census that is being carried out? One would have imagined that as the census was planned by the Department, the costs would have been built into the budget of last year so that it would be more than adequately catered for when the enumerators undertook the task for the Central Statistics Office.
I would like to ask about the method of recruiting the 3,500 field staff. There is much confusion, particularly in the Dublin region, as to how the people who arrived on our doorsteps were recruited. Can the Minister of State tell us it is all above board and that some form of favouritism is not shown to people in contact with the Central Statistics Office? Perhaps he would give us a breakdown of the method of recruiting these people, particularly the 1,500 who are being retained for the census of agriculture which is badly needed.
Can the Minister tell us how successful the census has been? We are told that the majority of the one million census forms have now been collected by the census enumerators. That is very encouraging but it is what would have been expected. Will the Central Statistics Office be pointing out areas which proved to be very difficult in terms of getting returns? It is my information that there are parts of our city where enumerators would have had some difficulty in getting the co-operation that would be expected from citizens of the State. For obvious reasons, some people feel threatened by officialdom and by the questions on the census form. Will the Central Statistics Office give a breakdown of areas that have proved particularly difficult? The Minister stated that the whole operation was carried out very smoothly. I am aware there are areas in which there are factors which are causing difficulties for the Minister for the Environment, not least of which are pit bull terriers and other sizeable dogs that made life very difficult for the enumerators. If the majority of forms are returned, what happens to those people who refused to make a return even though the enumerator has returned two, three or four times? Often it is extremely difficult to find people at home. Obviously, a percentage of people are on the move around the country for various reasons. I am aware there was a given time by which the form was to be filled in on 21 April. However, that would not necessarily cover adequately the number of people who are in transit or those who might not be as diligent about filling in forms as citizens would be expected to be.
The census on this occasion was fairly lightweight in the number of questions asked. Given that it is a major undertaking and given the labour costs and the number of people involved, is the Minister satisfied that sufficient use is made of the census procedure? Could not substantially more questions have been asked of a varying range and nature that would have given us a deeper understanding of the structures of Irish society? Presumably the officials felt sufficient questions had been asked. If you are putting 3,500 people out on the roads in such a major campaign the statistics sought should be more elaborate and the questions more broadly based to bring in further information.
The Central Statistics Office are involved in the area of building and construction in that they produce figures showing the average cost of both new and secondhand houses. Has it ever been a task of the Central Statistics Office to include the net loss of housing stock, particularly in city areas? Dublin inner city has a huge amount of old housing stock which is falling into disrepair, being purchased under CPOs for road-widening projects or abandoned by elderly owners. The derelict state of the private housing stock in inner city areas is clearly evident. Statistics on the loss of residential units, houses or other forms of accommodation such as rooms over shops would be as interesting and important as the number of new houses built in the inner city.
The monthly employment statistics are very important but by their nature they do not give a true picture of employment and unemployment. I hope one day we will hear that the numbers in employment are up and the numbers of unemployed are down. Would it not be fairer to include among the unemployed those on early-retirement pensions? It is farcical that the Government seem to have recognised 58 years as the age to which one works, as against the traditional old age pension age of 65. The Minister for Social Welfare has reduced to 58 years the eligibility threshold for early-retirement pensions. People who sign on at labour exchanges are counted as unemployed because they are on the live register. That register does not, however, give a full picture because 5,000 people are involved in pre-retirement schemes. Would it not be more honest to include these people in the numbers of unemployed along with those signing on at labour exchanges? Members of the workforce in short-term employment or involved in FAS schemes should also be included. The figures can easily be manipulated or incorrectly assessed if these people are excluded from the numbers of unemployed.
I have asked a series of questions rather than make any serious criticisms. Perhaps the Minister will give some answers to the questions I have raised.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Tá an díospóireacht seo an-oiriúnach toisc go bhfuil an CSO i mbun na hoibre faoin daonáireamh atá ar siúl faoi láthair. Is dócha nach mbeadh maitheas ar bith i mbailiúchán na bhfoirmeacha mura mbeadh an CSO ann chun achoimre a dhéanamh ar na figúirí ata bailithe. Chuir sé áthas agus ionadh orm nuair a dúirt an tAire go mbeadh an achoimre réidh i mí Iúil na bliana seo, agus tá moladh ag dul don CSO as ucht an obair thábhachtach sin a dhéanamh chomh tapa.
It is a compliment to the CSO that they can produce these figures by July. It is marvellous that the figures will not gather dust in some office until the end of the year. I pay tribute to the staff of the CSO, of whose existence I was for a long time unaware. Of late I have been contacting them for facts and figures.
Inflation figures are very important. In 1981 the figure was 20.4 per cent but by 1986 it had fallen to 3.9 per cent and in 1987 it was 3.2 per cent. These figures should be known by every Government Minister because they continually claim credit for getting inflation under control. The difficult part was to get down from 20 per cent to 3 per cent.
Acting Chairman
I have allowed a little latitude but I think the Deputy is taking advantage.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Statistics are a very important indicator of inflation. I often quote from The Deserted Village. The children laughed with counterfeited glee at all the school-master's jokes but then they saw the frown on his face. I knew you were coming for me.
We are familiar with the phrase "lies, damned lies and statistics". It would be a pity if the CSO were producing statistics which were worse than lies. It is important that they should have the best research facilities and full backing for their work.
I was surprised to learn that the farm survey was carried out by post. Perhaps that is the customary method but I would be doubtful about getting accurate returns by post. We are all inclined to leave things aside and not fill in forms. There may be a tendency to exaggerate or minimise the size of farms or stock. The fact that only 80 per cent make returns is an indication that this is not an ideal form of survey.
The 1926 legislation setting up the CSO provided for a guarantee of confidentiality. The importance of this was highlighted during the recent census and there were several discussions about it on radio. Some people are very sensitive about age, education and the work they do and it is important that they have confidence that their privacy will be guaranteed in the compilation of these statistics.
The enumerators not only deserve to be well paid but also deserve to get a gold medal at the end of the day. Perhaps the Minister would consider rewarding the enumerators who face all kinds of hazards apart from dogs. It can be a very difficult job when people are awkward to deal with. Deputy Byrne referred to enumerators having to go back to a dwelling three or four times. I have heard of enumerators having to go back eight times because people have been uncooperative about giving information.
The fact that there is independence from political pressure in the setting up of the CSO is very important. It would not be acceptable if Governments were able to distort or suppress figures. When the CSO issue figures they should be the correct figures in their view, and nobody should change them. If I look for figures I should be given the same figures as would be given to the Minister or anybody else.
Deputy Mitchell mentioned tourism. I am concerned about the accuracy of our tourism figures. Whether one is counting the number of people going to a football match or going on holidays it should be done properly. We are sometimes given fictitious figures in relation to the number of people visiting Ireland. I have discovered that figures on the live register can be different from labour force figures. This is a matter that the Central Statistics Office deal with quite well. If like is compared with like it should not matter much from where we receive the figures. People who want to know what the trend is and how things are going may look for figures from the live register, but maybe the labour force figures are more accurate. I had an argument with the Central Statistics Office on one occasion because I felt their figures for the labour force were incorrect. Perhaps the problem arose with the way the survey was conducted, but that is a matter for another day.
As I said earlier, I am glad that forms handed out by enumerators are not left hanging around in dusty boxes and also that, having received the results of a census, the Central Statistics Office publish the figures. Some people amuse themselves immensely by studying statistics, and it is important that this information be given to the public.
I am glad £20 million, an increase of 12.7 per cent, is being given to the CSO. I assume the extra money will go mainly towards the census of population and the census for agriculture. It would be a very sad day if the CSO were short of money. They should be asked to do only what they can do efficiently and well. They should not be asked to take short cuts which would result in inaccurate figures being given. I welcome this Estimate and I pay tribute to the CSO.
I thank the Deputies who have contributed to the debate and put forward suggestions and proposals. All the points made will be considered and kept in mind. I will first refer to the retired director of the Central Statistics Office, Mr. Thomas P. Linehan, whom I did not mention in my opening speech. I am delighted Deputy Mitchell referred to Mr. Linehan, who joined the CSO in 1949 on the first day of its establishment. He gave tremendous service to the CSO. He was appointed director in 1967 and for over 24 years served with distinction both nationally and internationally. He also served as chairman of the Conference of European Statisticians at the UN. He was honoured with the award of a Schuman medal from the European Commission in November last in appreciation of his contribution to European Community statistics. He has certainly served with distinction, and I am delighted Members referred to that fact.
Deputy Mitchell was concerned that we are not compensated financially for statistical information given under European Community requirements. We expect to receive £1.1 million from the European Community in acknowledgment of the work carried out internationally in relation to information given under European requirements. In the course of their work the CSO certainly use all available documents and information available in the compilation of their statistics. Live register unemployment statistics, to which Deputy Byrne referred, statistics on births, deaths and marriages motor car registration and external trade, all data received by the CSO, are treated in strict confidence. There is no question of that confidentiality being breached. There has never been any evidence of that and I assure the House that that position will continue.
We as a Government have been very forthcoming over the last number of years in complementing EC funding. As all Deputies will agree, it is vitally important that the best possible statistics be made available to the House. Government set their plans for the future on figures made available, and if statistics are inaccurate planning for the future will be affected. Inaccurate information is of no value to anybody. It is a waste of time and money. The Government do not dilute or interfere with figures for their own political purposes. It would be of no benefit to any Government to do that.
A number of Deputies referred to the field force. The following number of posts have been filled: five census liaison officers, 30 regional supervisors, 299 field supervisors and 3,200 enumerators. All the posts in question were advertised in the press and also in the local employment offices of the Department of Social Welfare to encourage suitable persons on the live register to apply. The advertisements indicated that preference would be given to those not in paid employment. Senior CSO staff either conducted or chaired the interview boards which selected the supervisory grades. The temporary supervisors in turn interviewed applicants for the enumerator posts. The CSO made the enumerator appointments following detailed examination of returns from the various interview boards. About 800 of the 3,500 part-time jobs were filled by applicants who were on the live register. It might be argued that that is a small percentage, but in the 1986 census preference was given to suitable persons who were on the live register but following an action taken against the CSO by an unsuccessful applicant an equality officer found that, under the Employment Equality Act, 1977, such preference discriminated against married women. It was agreed in advance on this occasion that to give preference to those not in paid employment would not discriminate against married women. I should like to emphasise that the selection procedure is based entirely on merit, but every encouragement is given to people on the live register to apply. If they are suitably qualified they will be employed on the basis of merit and qualification.
Deputy Mitchell also referred to the appointment of a director. The 1985 White Paper proposed the appointment of a director in the manner suggested by Deputy Mitchell. The new legislation will address that important point, but the House may be assured that whatever method is chosen the selection will be absolutely impartial and in keeping with the standing and profile of the post. In fact, it will enhance, if that is possible, the independence of the office in statistical matters.
Deputy Byrne expressed concern that in some areas, and I imagine that he had some areas in his constituency in mind, there may be unsatisfactory co-operation in the completion of census forms. The CSO have found through experience that even the most difficult households in terms of complying with the requirements of the census eventually comply after very patient explanation on the part of the enumerator. The whole ethos of the census is to seek and obtain co-operation from the public. The experience of the CSO has been that such co-operation has been forthcoming. There has never been a need to employ any other method in order to obtain compliance. The experience of those involved in the CSO has been excellent in that regard. I should like to place on record the appreciation of the CSO to the public for the co-operation and support the CSO received at all times to ensure that an accurate census is compiled and that the figures produced can be accepted as being completely accurate.
A very important activity of the CSO is the production of statistics on employment, unemployment and the labour force. As I pointed out, the live register is a very valuable short-term indicator of the unemployment trend between the results of successive annual labour force surveys. However, because of the complexity of its administrative regulations and contribution additions, it should never be regarded as an objective measure of the absolute level of unemployment. Participants of pre-retirement schemes have already declared themselves as being retired and they are, therefore, properly excluded from the live register. Deputies will understand that although the live register does provide a very good short-term indicator of unemployment figures, the labour force survey has in the past always proved to be the most reliable pointer. I express there the viewpoint expressed over the years by CSO officers.
I should like to thank Deputies who contributed to the debate and officers of the Central Statistics Office for the very valuable contribution they have made over the years. Theirs is not a very easy task. It is one that becomes more difficult as, with the advance of technology and so on, greater demands and greater requirements are put on them. The Central Statistics Office have filled their role in a very satisfactory way and I should like to record the Government's thanks to them.
Vote put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 9.45 p.m. and resumed at 9.55 p.m.