First, I should like to thank everybody who contributed to this Second Stage debate. There were some fine individual contributions from both sides of the House. I want to express my gratitude to Deputy Brian O'Shea for supporting the Bill on behalf of the Labour Party. As to whether the Bill should confine the teaching membership of vocational education committees to those who are members of a specific union, I gave some consideration initially to that viewpoint but, ultimately, the scope must be wide enough to include all teachers, those who are members of the Teachers' Union of Ireland, those who are not members of that union and those who are members of some other union. Due to the very responsible approach to education by the Teachers' Union of Ireland they enjoy a monopoly in this regard. They are a union who have shown a creative dominance of vocational education in vocational schools, community colleges, DIT colleges and RTCs.
Deputy O'Shea laid heavy emphasis on the vital role of parents at every level of education. I thank him for pointing out to the Minister before she left the Chamber last Tuesday that this is a Second Stage debate, a debate on the all important principle of parent and teacher participation in vocational education committees, and that the Bill could be amended on Committee Stage.
Deputy Dempsey welcomed the principle of participation outlined in the Bill, particularly the participation of parents. He said that most vocational education committees consist of one or two teachers but that the teacher members tend to focus on narrow union issues rather than broader educational issues. I disagree totally with him. This implies a blinkered siege mentality which I totally refute. Naturally, if a union related issue or an industrial relations related issue arises the member has a valuable input in that regard. To suggest that the members of the Teachers' Union of Ireland who are on VECs leave other educational considerations outside the door is demeaning to them, a slight on them and prejudices their right to sit on vocational education committees.
Deputy Dempsey said there was not enough time to get this legislation through the House. I would point out to Deputy Dempsey that last Thursday the Second Stage of the University of limerick (Dissolution of Thomond College) Bill, 1991, was introduced. That is a significant Bill in its own right involving considerable expenditure. We finished Second Stage of that Bill by 5 p.m. last Thursday and passed Committee, Report and Final Stages at 12.30 p.m. today, having dealt with these amendments. If the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, removes the embargo on this Bill it can be through the Dáil, the Seanad and become law within three weeks.
Deputy Dempsey urged county councilors to sit down after the local elections and work out an arrangement for teacher and parent participation on VECs. This very much conforms with the Minister's idea of writing to local authorities. When the former Minister Gemma Hussey, wrote to local authorities, the present Minister's party dominated local authorities and got control of the VECs. As Deputy Mac Giolla said, very few places have been given at the time of co-options to parents and teachers. Deputy Dempsey knows that will be the case on a national scale. Some committee, indeed a minority, will possibly appoint one or two teachers and, perhaps, even a parent or two, but Deputy Dempsey knows that the vast majority of local authorities will go the old route of rewarding the party faithful. The Deputy concluded by assuring the House that the vocational education system is a very fine system. We know it is a fine system, it is the finest such system. Unfortunately, in the view of the Deputy's party, it is too fine a system to allow parents or teachers to be part of the running of the show at the highest level.
Deputy John Browne of Wexford asked whether the Bill would have been introduced if Fianna Fáil did not have the majority on most VECs. Yes, it would have been. The principles espoused in the Bill are ones to which I have felt strongly committed since I became a member of a VEC. This measure should have been introduced when the boards of management were introduced at primary school level, when we were democratising education. That would have been a logical extension and a follow-up to the principle of management boards in vocational schools and community colleges and would have been the apex of democratisation.
Deputy Browne said that if people wanted to be part and parcel of the administration, then VECs should look to people from the real world of industry. Section 8 (4) of the 1930 Act specifies that such people should be from associations or bodies of employers. They are the very people Deputy Browne is talking about, but how many of them have been elected on to VECs in order to garner their expertise? Only a very few. It is also written that such teams should include members from employees' bodies. The Bill tries to ensure that employees' bodies, members of the Teachers Union of Ireland, will be elected by right on to VECs. Unfortunately, that has not happened. The 1930 legislation states that when electing people local authorities should have regard to the experience of people involved in education.
As I said before, the Constitution prescribes the right of parents to be involved in education and the Bill seeks to give practical expression to that concept. It gives statutory, compulsory effect to the spirit of the Constitution and the spirit embodied in the 1930 legislation, because when it came to the test the interests of parents were completely sidelined in the selfish rush of the unruly to gain those valuable six or nine places.
I thank my colleagues Deputy Deenihan, Deputy Ahearn, Deputy Boylan, Deputy Browne and Deputy McGrath for their very strong advocacy of the Bill. I pay particular tribute to Deputy MacGiolla and The Workers' Party, who brought their particular breadth of experience — particularly that of Deputy MacGiolla — to the debate.
I share the teachers' and parents' combined disbelief and bewilderment at the Minister's attitude to the Bill. How could any Minister who, a mere six weeks ago, at the annual parents' conference talked in such detail about parent power, her determination to have parents throw off the shackles of inferiority, the need for parental involvement and her Government's determination to assist in that process, then turn around and deny them places on VECs by refusing this Bill a Second Stage Reading? That is beyond comprehension. It is a clear indication that the Minister does not believe that parents have yet come of age, that they are mature enough to sit down side by side on VECs with the Government's political cohorts.