Séamus Pattison
Ceist:17 Mr. Pattison asked the Minister for Justice if he will supply up-to-date statistics with regard to both urban and rural crime for the current year; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Crime Statistics.
I am informed by the Garda authorities that official figures for indictable crime recorded in 1991 for urban and rural areas are not yet available. However, I am also informed that the indications are that indictable crime has shown an upward trend during the year. While these indications represent something of a setback in a situation where the trend has been on a steady downward path since the peak levels experienced in the early eighties, it would not be correct to say that they represent a major setback. According to the Garda there is no question that the offiical figures for this year, when available, will show anything like a return to the levels experienced at that time.
There is no basis for complaceny either, of course. Deputies will be aware that a very wide range of plans have been implemented, with success, in recent years on the Garda operational front and that I have also approved the introduction of various community-based initiatives which are making a widely recognised contribution towards dealing with crime problems in particular areas. There has also been a very substantial commitment in the form of increased resources, which is continuing, as well as a range of quite significant developments on the criminal law reform front.
As we all know, however, crime patterns and trends are the subject of constant variation and it is necessary, in considering further policy options, to look at these matters not only on a year to year basis, but over longer time cycles also. It is necessary, too, to take account of the complex social changes which can impact adversely on crime figures from time to time, irrespective of what crime prevention and detection strategies are in place, and, above all, to acknowledge that although a law and order response is obviously an essential element in dealing with the problem, it is by no means the total answer.
I would like to assure the House, as I have in the past, that the safety and security of our citizens is my chief concern as Minister for Justice and is also one of the top priorities of this Government. I have been engaged in consultations with the Garda authorities on this matter and will, in fact, be holding a further conference with them today with a view to identifying the specific additional measures which must now be taken to deal with crime, especially in those areas which have contributed most to the variation from the recent trend which seems to be emerging this year. The advice of other relevant agencies, including the Probation and Welfare Service, will be taken on board as part of this consultation process and my aim will be to put arrangements in place which, on the basis of the best advice available to me, are most likely to ensure that the progress achieved in recent years is maintained and, if possible, improved upon.
Would the Minister not agree that the increase in crime is particularly noticeable in counties adjoining Dublin and that as a result of the increased resources being applied in the city there seems to have been a transfer of crime to these counties where there has not been a similar increase in policing?
The crime is very evenly spread across the board as between rural and urban areas. The new rural community policing scheme which is designed to promote increased Garda community contact in rural areas will provide a more effective response to crime in rural areas. With the introduction of the scheme additional manpower resources have been allocated to the 12 Garda districts in which the scheme has been operating since 23 September. These additional manpower resources include the allocation of an extra 11 sergeants and 19 gardaí to the districts in question. Moreover, the allocation of clerical assistants and micro-computers to the newly designed area headquarters Garda stations, together with a reduction in record keeping in smaller Garda stations, has increased the time available to gardaí for outdoor contact with the communities in the districts in which the scheme is operating.
I am astonished to hear the Minister say that figures are not available. In every Garda station in Dublin the figures for the first six months of this year are known. It is recognised that there has been a drastic increase in the level of crime in the first six months of this year. Will the Minister agree that it is time he banged on the Taoiseach's table demanding that the level of Garda strength be at least brought up to the 1986 level when there were 900 more gardaí on the streets than is the case today? Alternatively, would the Minister not set up a criminal law reform commission specifically to update criminal legislation so that those committing these serious crimes can be dealt with in a proper manner? Will the Minister give a commitment to set up such a commission to consider this matter?
In reply to an earlier question I outlined for the Deputy the legislation that has been introduced to update the criminal law here. It is such an extensive list I omitted some of the legislation because it was an embarrassment of riches as far as changes are concerned.
The figures speak for themselves.
Changes are taking place. As I have indicated to the Deputy, we are at present engaged in the second recruitment programme under which 1,000 recruits are being taken on.
That will only replace those who are retiring.
A number of other initiatives are being undertaken such as the appointment of extra civilians to release gardaí from desk work in Garda stations so that they can do the work for which they are trained. Changes are also being made in record keeping. These changes are taking place to ensure the maximum possible cover for people in their homes and on the streets.
Will the Minister indicate the exact increase in crime in the Dublin area in the first six months of this year? If he will not give that information will he tell the House why he is deliberately concealing the figures?
The Deputy has not asked me a specific question on that matter. The figure will be roughly in the order of 8 per cent.
Is that an increase of 8 per cent in the first six months of this year?
Let us now deal with Private Notice Questions.
I wish to ask about a question I put down on which I have some difficulty in accepting the Chair's ruling. I put down a question to the Taoiseach four or five weeks ago asking the circumstances in which Mr. Seamus Paircéir was appointed chairman of the Dublin Port and Docks Board, but the Taoiseach transferred that question to the Minister for the Environment. The Chair contacted me subsequently and said that as the appointment of the chairman was a matter of collective Government responsibility the Minister for the Environment was not involved. In view of your ruling I subsequently put down the question to the Taoiseach who again transferred it to the Minister for the Environment.
This matter is not in order and Deputy Barry knows that.
You are ruling now, a Cheann Comhairle——
In respect of the transfer of questions, the Chair has no control whatsoever over that matter, nor did he ever have such control.
I know that but——
Deputy Barry, you may not pursue that attitude in the House.
I am finished my comments about transferring questions——
It is totally out of order to challenge the Chair in this fashion.
You wrote to me today stating that the question cannot be taken and it is because of your ruling I am being argumentative.
You may not challenge my ruling now, Deputy. There are ways and means of raising the matter.
Would you tell me how I may seek this information in the public interest and under the rules of the House?
You may approach my office in the matter. I will not be harassed in the House in this fashion by any Deputy.
Do not ask embarrassing questions.