Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 May 1992

Vol. 419 No. 7

Estimates, 1992. - Vote 37: Army Pensions.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £51,056,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1992, for retired pay, pensions, compensation, allowances and gratuities payable under sundry statutes to or in respect of members of the Defence Forces and certain other Military Organisations, etc., and for sundry contributions and expenses in connection therewith; for certain extra-statutory children's allowances and for sundry grants.

The Defence Estimate for the year ending 31 December 1992 is for a gross provision of £345.8 million — an increase of more than £3 million on the figure for 1991. The major part of the 1992 Estimate — 83 per cent, or £271.5 million — provides for pay and allowances and this represents an increase of £2.6 million on the outturn for 1991. The non-pay items amount to £74.3 million; and the provision of £19.5 million for Appropriations-in-Aid shows an increase of over £2 million on the 1991 outturn.

The Estimate for 1992 is based on an average total strength of 12,990 in the Permanent Defence Force comprising 1,575 officers, 65 cadets and 11,350 other ranks and provides for the annual training of approximately 9,000 FCA and Slua Muirí personnel.

Before dealing with the Estimate I feel I should make some comment on the question of defence in the context of the Treaty on European Union. Ireland's traditional position of remaining outside military alliances is recognised by a specific provision in section J of the Treaty which states that the policy of the European Union in the security area "shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain member states". The Treaty does not set up a common defence policy and it contains no mutual defence commitments whatsoever. Conscription cannot be imposed on Ireland through the Treaty and it is pure nonsense to suggest — as has been suggested — that it can.

The Treaty provides that an Inter-governmental Conference in 1996 may consider the framing of a common defence policy. Any new agreement in this area must be unanimous and would have to be ratified by a referendum. Accordingly, the position of Ireland is completely safeguarded.

A major development in the Defence Forces in the last year has been the establishment of two representative associations — RACO representing officers and PDFORRA representing NCOs and Privates. Since the establishment of the associations the representative structures provided for in the relevant Defence Force Regulations and in the arrangements drawn up in agreement between my Department and the associations have been developed.

The associations have each selected two members who will be seconded to them at State expense to act as full time officials. I would like to congratulate the individuals involved and wish them well in their new appointments. I recently met a deputation from each association and was able to hear at first hand their various concerns.

During the week PDFORRA held its first ever Annual Delegate Conference in Galway and I had the pleasure of addressing the delegates. In addition, the Chief of Staff was invited to the conference and was also afforded the opportunity of addressing it.

Regular meetings now take place between the representatives of the associations and representatives — civil and military — of my Department and, where appropriate, the Department of Finance. In addition, meetings between representatives of the associations and the appropriate military authorities at barrack and command levels are also held. As a result of such discussions many issues have been resolved to the satisfaction of all concerned.

During the Oireachtas debates on the Defence (Amendment) Act, 1990, a commitment was given to provide a system of conciliation and arbitration for the Permanent Defence Force on the basis of the system which obtains in the public service generally. In line with this commitment a process of consultation with both representative associations, RACO and PDFORRA, who will be parties to the scheme, is already well under way. Discussions on the terms of the scheme are continuing and a very considerable measure of progress has been made.

I am happy to say, therefore, that the representative arrangements are, generally speaking, developing in a satisfactory manner and I wish to pay tribute both to the association representatives and the departmental representatives, civil and military, for the remarkable progress that has been made in the short period of time since the establishment of the associations in developing the new representative initiative. The House will note that it was the first annual meeting of PDFORRA that I addressed yesterday.

The Defence (Amendment) Act, 1990, also provides for representative structures for members of the Reserve Defence Force. My predecessor met with interested personnel of the Reserve Defence Force last year. Representatives of my Department have had a number of meetings with a delegation from the FCA and the Slua Muirí to discuss this matter in greater detail. The meetings are being held in an atmosphere of goodwill. I anticipate that the representative arrangements will be finalised in the very near future and the Defence Force Regulations to make statutory provision for these arrangements will then be signed by me.

Since 1969 one to the main preoccupations of the Defence Forces has been with internal security matters. Primary responsibility for internal security rests with the Garda Síochána and the involvement of the Defence Forces derives from their role of rendering aid to the civil power.

Almost 10,000 military parties were supplied during the past 12 months in the Border area, in response to requests from the Garda. Throughout the State, 1,000 parties were supplied to provide security for the movement and use of explosives in blasting operations. One hundred and sixty two requests were received for bomb disposal teams. Over 2,800 military escorts were provided, including escorts for cash in transit and civilian prisoners.

Discussions have been initiated with a view to securing from the banks a contribution of £2 million — £1.5 million for Defence and £0.5 million for the Department of Justice — towards the cost of cash escorts.

Deputies will be aware that the Permanent Defence Force is making a significant contribution in the cause of international peace by way of the participation in a number of United Nations peace-keeping missions. We have an Irish contingent of about 750 all ranks serving with the United Nations in the Interim Force in Lebanon, eight personnel serving in staff appointments with the United Nations Force in Cyprus and in addition, there are approximately 60 Irish officers serving as observers with various United Nations missions in the Middle East, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Cambodia, Iraq-Kuwait, Angola, Western Sahara, Yugoslavia and in Central America. Three Irish Army officers are serving with the European Community task force for Food Aid To Russia and a further six officers and one non-commissioned officer are serving with the EC monitor mission to Yugoslavia.

Last March I visited the Middle East, including Lebanon, Cyprus and Syria. I spent four days with the Irish contingent serving with UNIFIL visiting 23 locations and saw at first hand the conditions under which Irish troops operate. I was greatly impressed by their sense of commitment to the important work which they are undertaking in the cause of international peace and by the great rapport which exists between them and the local communities. I had reason to have discussions with the Muktar of the local villages and this rapport was very evident from what the village leaders said to me. The morale of the troops was very high. I am satisfied that the presence of UNIFIL is vital to the stability of South Lebanon and affords protection and humanitarian assistance to the local population, who appealed strongly to me for the continued presence of Irish troops in South Lebanon.

The Government remain firmly committed to supporting United Nations peacekeeping missions. All of the military personnel concerned — it is important to stress this — volunteer to serve overseas with the United Nations and I wish to place on record the Government's appreciation of the vital contribution to peace made by Irish military personnel. I also wish to congratulate Major-General Michael Minehane on his recent appointment as Force Commander of the United Nations Force in Cyprus and wish him every success in his new appointment. As Force Commander of UNFICYP he has personnel from Austria, Britain, Canada, Denmark, Finland and Sweden, as well as from Ireland, under his command.

Over the past three years, the pay of Defence Force personnel has been increased considerably and increases due in 1992 under the modified terms of the agreement on pay and conditions associated with the Programme for Economic and Social Progress will be applied to the Defence Forces. Provision for these increases will be made in the Estimate for Increases in Remuneration and Pensions. The starting pay of a recruit is now over £150 a week. After four years' service as Private 3 star, his gross pay including military service allowance is over £256 a week. Since the beginning of 1989, the average pay of a Private and NCO has increased by between 45 per cent and 50 per cent. In addition, a variety of allowances is payable to officers and men who perform duties of a security nature. Examples of typical gross taxable earnings for the tax year 1991-92 were: Private 3 star — £14,000 a year or £270 a week; Corporal £16,000 a year or over £300 a week; and Captain — £22,000 a year. These amounts do not include overseas allowance and other non-taxable payments. Increases payable from 1 January 1992 under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress are not included.

Competitions for the award of cadetships in the Army, the Air Corps and the Naval Service were recently advertised. The successful candidates will commence training next October. A competition for the award of apprenticeships in various trades for the Army and Naval Service was advertised earlier this year. The apprentices will be enlisted in August next. At present 24 NCOs are undergoing a potential officers' course at the Military College Curragh Camp. The successful participants will be commissioned as officers of the Permanent Defence Forces next month.

Ba mhaith liom focal nó dhó a rá faoi iarrachtaí le húsáid na Gaeilge a fhorbairt sna Forsaí. Tá treoir eisithe a rá gur cheart an leagan Gaeilge de órdaithe a úsáid i ndruil coisithe agus i ndruil arm. Ina theannta sin táthar ag úsáid Gaeilge in órduithe rialachais le linn raon cleachta agus traenáil aimsitheoireachta.

Ar chúrsaí éagsúla fágtar am ar leith le haghaidh léachtaí agus díospoireachtaí ag baint le cultúr na hEireann agus úsáid na Gaeilge. Tá Bord mileata ag aithbhreithniú conas is féidir níos mó a dhéanamh le húsáid na teangan a leathnú sna bearraicí agus postanna míleata mórthimpeall na tíre. Tá a fhios agam gur mór dos na Forsaí agus iad ar sheirbhís thar lear leis na Náisiúin Aontaithe a dteanga féin a úsáid agus í a chlos ag saighdiúirí ó náisiúin eile.

Sa Roinn tá daoine aitheanta chun plé leis an bpobal trí mheán na Gaeilge i ngach oifig i mBaile Átha Cliath agus i nGaillimh.

As regards the Reserve Defence Force, annual training for the FCA and the Slua Muirí at the same level as in recent years will be held this year and the full annual gratuity will be paid. The position with regard to training will continue to be kept under review. I wish to express the Government's appreciation for the work of members of the reserve who give such a fine example of good citizenship to the youth of the country. I should mention in passing that I had the pleasure of commissioning FCA officers in Galway recently and commended them on their service to the country and keeping up a tradition of citizen soldiers which goes back a long way.

With a budget of £399 million for the Defence and Army Pensions Votes and a total payroll of almost 14,500, including civilian employees, the Defence Forces constitute a major organisation in both manpower and financial terms. Recent developments in the area of information technology provide greatly increased scope for the use of computers in the defence area. To harness the benefits of these technical advances, a major strategic information plan, covering all areas of the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces, has been adopted and implementation is well under way.

At the end of 1990, a contract for the supply and installation of the computer equipment required to implement the first phase of the plan was signed. Initial deliveries of equipment were made in 1991 and over £1.7 million is provided in this year's Estimate for a further instalment of computer equipment. It is anticipated that substantial savings in the area of administration will result from the programme of computerisation, particularly in the areas of purchasing and inventory control.

In regard to fishery surveillance, an EC funding package covering expenditure incurred between 1991 and 1995 was approved for member states in November 1989. In accordance with these arrangements a programme was agreed with the EC and a contract was placed in April 1991 for the purchase of two new CASA CN 235 maritime patrol aircraft for delivery in early 1994 and an interim CASA CN 235 which was delivered last year. Fifty per cent of the expenditure will be refunded by the European Community.

The protection of our maritime resources is a priority for the Naval Service. This involves all seven Naval Service vessels in patrols throughout the fishing grounds within Ireland's 200 mile limit, frequently in quite challenging conditions. In addition, since late 1991, a Dauphin helicopter has operated from LE Eithne on fishery protection surveillance activities. While aboard LE Eithne, the Dauphin is used to extend the surveillance range of the ship and to search out and locate fishing vessels to determine the legality of their activities. This arrangement has proved very effective and has assisted in the detention of illegal fishing vessels. Naval personnel are fully deserving of our appreciation for the professionalism and dedication with which the task of fishery protection is performed.

There have been important developments in the area of search and rescue. A Dauphin helicopter has been positioned at Finner since July 1991 for search and rescue operations in the north-west and the heli-pad facilities there have been improved. A contract SAR helicopter service has been put in place at Shannon.

Since their acquisition, the Dauphin helicopters have flown more than 400 search and rescue missions, as a result of which more than 200 people were rescued. I want to take this opportunity to place on record my appreciation, and that of the Government, for the excellent job which the Air Corps are doing in the search and rescue role.

As regards the maintenance and improvement of military posts, a provision of £8 million is made in Subhead V of the Estimate for building and engineering works both for new construction projects and for the refurbishment of existing buildings to meet the needs of Army personnel. A total of £4.5 million of this provision is earmarked for capital investment. A large proportion of this amount will be devoted to works required in connection with the evacuation of Collins Barracks, Dublin. These include works in McKee Barracks — a new dining complex, renovation of billet blocks and a new building maintenance facility. In Cathal Brugha Barracks, the works include the completion of the new central armoury, a new headquarters for the Eastern Command, a new dining hall complex and a new supply and transport facility.

Other major new works to commence in 1992 are the fitting shop, naval base, Haulbowline and a search and rescue building in Finner Camp. A programme for the improvement of existing billets is continuing, as well as major maintenance and health and safety works.

Another special departmental programme is the Asgard sail training scheme. A full programme of cruises for Asgard II has been planned for 1992. These cruises will cater for some 580 trainees, mainly in the age group 16 to 20 years of age. Last year was a very successful year. The Asgard II, its crew and trainees succeeded for the first time in securing the Cutty Sark Trophy, which is awarded to a ship participating in the annual Tall Ships Race.

I am pleased to announce a major change in the status of women in the Defence Forces. I have made a decision in principle to end the restrictions which prevent women from serving in all areas of the Defence Forces.

Women were enlisted into the Defence Forces in 1980 and at present, there are 111 female military personnel. The range of appointments open to women has been expanded in recent years to include Army and Air Corps apprenticeships and Air Corps cadetships. However, because of their status as non-combatants, women have been restricted in the duties allocated to them. For example, women serving in the Army have not undertaken security duties in aid of the civil power.

I have recently received the report of a board which was convened in September 1991 to consider expanding the role of women in the Defence Forces. The board, which included a male civilian and two women, concluded that the policy of limiting women to a non-combatant role should be discontinued. They recommended the full participation of women over a period of time in all aspects of Defence Forces activity, to include participation in operational work; the full integration of women in relation to access to the military career educational system and to promotional opportunity in the Defence Forces and a transitional period to plan and implement the recommendations of the board.

I have considered the conclusion and recommendations of the board, which have been endorsed by the military authorities, and have approved the broad thrust of their findings. I am instructing the military authorities to engage in the detailed planning necessary to ensure the implementation of the recommendations.

With regard to Civil Defence, the Minister of State will deal with this matter.

I now turn to the Army Pensions Estimate for the year ending 31 December 1992. The Estimate is for a net sum of £51,056,000 representing an increase of £1,606,000 or 3 per cent on the 1991 outturn. The bulk of expenditure from the Estimate falls under subhead E1, which covers pensions and gratuities granted under the Defence Forces pensions schemes to former members of the Permanent Defence Force and their dependants. This item accounts for 80 per cent of the total Estimate with approximately 6,500 pensioners.

May I anticipate the agreement of the House to the Minister having an additional minute? Agreed.

All pensions and allowances are being increased from 1 January and 1 December 1992, in line with the pay increases from those dates under the modified terms of the agreement on pay and conditions associated with the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. In line with similar arrangements applicable elsewhere in the public service, retirement gratuities and other once-off lump sum payments are being increased from 1 January 1992, as if the full pay increase due under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress had been paid from that date. Moreover, the full 3 per cent increase is being applied from 1 January to the pensions and allowances payable to veterans of the War of Independence and the dependants of deceased veterans. Provision for these increases will be made in the Estimate for increases in remuneration and pensions.

I commend both Estimates to the House.

There is one element of the Minister's speech that I welcome, that regular meetings are taking place between the representative associations and the civil and military authorities, his Department and the Department of Finance. It is very important that they would have regular meetings with the Department of Finance because the Estimate before us is not adequate to provide proper remuneration or, indeed, proper facilities, to the military right across the country.

In addressing the Defence Estimate we must ask what will be the future role for the Defence Forces. The fact that a number of the recommendations of Gleeson Commission have been addressed is not evidence of implementing the spirit and substance of the report of that group.

At present there is widespread dissatisfaction and low morale, and a feeling of dejection is rampant among the Defence Forces. In addition, there is a belief that there is lack of interest and commitment on the part of the Department and a sense of being exploited because of their statutory status.

That must not be allowed to continue. The onus is on the Minister, and his Department, to publish a White Paper outlining the role and function of the Defence Forces, proposals for improved management structures, details of planned improvements in accommodation and facilities and proper and adequate remuneration for all ranks within the Defence Forces.

I hope that Ireland will participate more closely in European affairs after the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty. It is interesting to note that the Minister stated that Ireland's position has been safeguarded. I would like to ask the Minister what is meant by "safeguarded"? Is it in our interests to opt out of a closer defence union in Europe and will it safeguard our interests? This matter must be addressed but not in the way the Minister dealt with it in the House today.

It is important that this matter be addressed because, as we are all aware, the question of a common defence policy will be considered by an inter-governmental conference in 1996. In view of this it is vital that both the Department of Defence and the military authorities draw up a discussion document on the future role of the Irish Army within Europe and in particular within the United Nations. If we address these issues now we will invigorate the Defence Forces, give them a sense of purpose, a raison d'etre and a renewed standing within the community. It is important that the Minister and the Department address this matter as a matter of urgency.

In relation to the management of the forces, great concern has been expressed in recent times. The traditional dogmatic and authoritarian management of the forces is outdated and unacceptable. There is a need, therefore, to adopt a proper personnel management system. Concern was expressed recently about promotions and this should not be voiced in the future. An adequate annual assessment report should be drawn up on each member of the Defence Forces and should be made available to the person concerned. It should also be made available retrospectively. Given that this assessment will be placed before the promotions board it is important that candidates for promotion have access to information contained in the file. The present system whereby performances are monitored subjectively is not satisfactory. A proper system should be put in place.

It is equally important that personnel receive training in management skills so that all candidates are afforded a fair opportunity of promotion. Given the over-supply of commandants in the Army at present there are difficulties in relation to promotions in the Army, Navy and Air Corps. It is important, therefore, that the matter be addressed quickly. A capping system should be introduced to enable the authorities to implement fully the recommendations contained in the Gleeson report. Because such a capping system has not been introduced many people are restricted to the one rank with no possibility of promotion in the years to come. In the past captains were promoted to the rank of commandant between the ages of 33 and 38 whereas now the average age lies between the ages of 44 and 48. The matter needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

The inhuman practice of transferring military personnel, in some cases with less than 24 hours notice, must be stopped, in particular where they are not made for specific operational purposes. A proper explanation should be given and the case substantiated. Recently a number of officers were transferred from one battalion to another with less than 24 hours notice. No explanation was given and upheaval was caused for their families. This is unacceptable and it should not be allowed to continue.

In relation to special allowances, about which we have heard so much in recent days, soldiers engaged in operational duties in Border areas feel that they are being discriminated against. They receive a sum of £37.85, before tax, per week. Most soldiers do at least two 24-hour stints each week. Indeed, some soldiers do as many as four 24-hour stints in a week. Despite this they still receive only £37.85. This is grossly unfair having regard to the fact that members of the Garda, the civil power, whom they are assisting receive very lucrative allowances, and rightly so. It is important, therefore, that this discrepancy be rectified immediately. Regardless of whether a soldier does four 24-hour stints or works right throughout the weekend he still receives only £37.85. The Minister should address this problem immediately.

At the conference in Galway during the week the Minister stated that this matter could be addressed in two ways: first, by employing more soldiers in operational duties and, second, by reducing the number involved in the administrative services. This proposal is not adequate and will not overcome the difficulty that exists at present. It is important that the Minister should seek additional finance from the Minister for Finance to remunerate the soldiers engaged in such duties properly.

It is equally important that the Minister launch a new recruiting campaign to recruit more people into the Army. This matter should be addressed seriously as a matter of urgency. In addressing this issue consideration must be given to the upheaval caused for families, the unsocial hours worked and the disruption experienced by the spouses and children of these soldiers. It is proving difficult to draft soldiers from battalions in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway to take part in operational duties along the Border. As a result, those soldiers stationed permanently along the Border have to carry responsibility for a number of weeks after the arrival of other soldiers who are unfamiliar with the region.

We are all proud of our troops involved in UN peacekeeping duties overseas yet the Government pay the lowest allowances of all participating nations. I ask the Minister to address this issue and to put the overseas allowances on a par with the allowances payable by some of our European counterparts. This situation must not be allowed continue.

In relation to pensions, there is a difficulty with widow's pensions in particular. A few hundred women find themselves in a difficult position because their spouses opted out of the scheme when they got an opportunity to do so ten to 15 years ago. Numerous appeals have been made in the House during the years to have this matter rectified as a matter of urgency and I appeal to the Minister, once again, to rectify this discrepancy as it is a source of serious concern for many women.

At present pensioners are experiencing difficulties due to the postal dispute. Despite the Minister's efforts to make alternative arrangements hardship is being caused for a number of pensioners. I ask the Minister to provide a delivery service through the Army for those pensioners suffering hardship at present.

The Minister referred to the status of women within the Defence Forces. I welcome his statement that he has made a decision in principle to remove the restrictions to allow women serve in all areas of the Defence Forces. While I welcome this decision I urge him to act quickly. I should say, however, that I have not been impressed by the cumbersome way in which he has tried to implement his decision. This is a fairly straightforward matter of allowing women to partake in all military activities. At present they are not allowed to engage in security duties and this is unacceptable. Neither are they allowed to participate in peacekeeping activities overseas.

This is a serious matter because they are being discriminated against and their prospects of promotion in the future are being hindered. That is the nub of the issue. While this situation is allowed to continue they will find it difficult to be promoted within the Army. I appeal, therefore, to the Minister to forget about the cumbersome machinery that he is suggesting and to get on with the job. It is a straightforward matter of lifting the ban that exists and allowing women to do the job that they could do effectively.

Repeatedly, in classes for cadets and regular soldiers female participants have excelled themselves and indeed have taken first, second and third prizes in many instances within their respective classes. It is totally unacceptable that because of restrictions their abilities are being further stifled. I am concerned that the machinery which the Minister proposes will be a further delaying tactic in regard to that issue.

There are tremendous skills and abilities in the Army, but previous Ministers and Governments have not tapped them. There is a possibility of the Army generating finance and the Minister should look at ways of doing so. In his speech he addressed the various work which the Army do in relation to security, and the security provided by the Army to the banks is a particular area of concern to the public. I urge the Minister to secure moneys fairly quickly from the banks for the type of security provided by the Army for the transfer of money across the country from bank to bank.

The Army have a great tradition of peacekeeping activities in the United Nations and have served throughout the world in that capacity. They are renowned for the manner in which they conduct that kind of work and we have an opportunity of setting up a United Nations training school where our skills and expertise would be provided to other nations who now want to participate in United Nations peacekeeping activities. The Army could generate finance by putting this in place. It is laudable that so many Eastern European and African countries want to participate in United Nations activities. There is an opening in that regard and we should be ready to avail of it. The ordnance school are doing great work in relation to bomb disposal and we are training Army personnel from other countries in that area.

The Navy are a very important element of our Defence Forces and their primary job is fishery protection. I welcome the fact that the LE Eithne has the Dauphin helicopter which was promised at the end of last year. However, there is a problem in that regard because the LE Eithne and other naval vessels were commanded by captains for quite a considerable length of time when the post should have been equivalent to the rank of commandant in the Army. Because of the overall situation in relation to promotions, the Navy in particular has been discriminated against. I ask the Minister to address the aspect of promotions, because the Navy are doing a very fine job. Indeed, since they received the helicopter they have done an even more effective job in relation to fisheries protection. Our search and rescue service was updated recently as a result of a medium range helicopter being stationed at Shannon. It is being served by the Air Corps from Cork, Finner and Galway and they are providing a very fine service. The Minister should examine other areas in relation to additional work they may be able to do and in regard to training facilities which they may be able to provide to the public.

There are a number of other relevant issues but they will be raised by my colleagues. However, I wish to refer to the FCA, a voluntary organisation operating right across the country. Over the years they have provided a fine service, but unfortunately in recent times recruitment to the FCA has been considerably reduced because of lack of money. The facilities, clothes and opportunities for training provided to FCA personnel have diminished considerably, which is extremely unfortunate. I appeal to the Minister to look again at the future of the FCA and to define a particular role for them. Indeed, their responsibilities should be extended because they have acted as a fine back-up service to the regular Army in the past and there is an opportunity for an additional role for them in future.

The position at present is not encouraging young men and women to join. The training camps which were provided in the past do not now exist. It is unfortunate that some of the training camps traditionally used by the FCA have been closed down in some instances or utilised much less in recent years. If I may be parochial, I refer in particular to Lahinch training camp, which was used for only two weeks last year whereas normally it would have been used for six weeks. Will the Minister address that matter in his reply and give an assurance that it will be used for six weeks in the coming season and upgraded and refurbished as required?

Civil Defence is a very important area and my colleague will refer to it later. It plays a very important role within the community and I am sure the Minister will expand on this——

I know that the Deputy hopes to say much more but I must advise her that her time is up.

I assume we will have an opportunity at the end of the debate to clarify the issues which were raised.

I wish on behalf of the Labour Party to pay tribute to our Defence Forces for their work, dedication and duty throughout the years. Since the foundation of the State Irishmen and women in the service of their country at home and abroad have done a remarkably fine job despite financial constraints. They have an outstanding record of success, particularly in the service of the United Nations, and some paid the ultimate sacrifice by giving their lives in the cause of peace. Their sacrifice, and the loss to their loved ones, must never be forgotten. The success of our forces in the Congo, Cyprus, the Lebanon and other trouble spots around the world did not happen overnight; it is as a result of proven Army training and techniques which have been built up over the years and now form part of the tradition of our Defence Forces. Those traditions and invaluable expertise have made an impact on the world stage, an impact far greater than the size of the force and the population of our country warrants. This success, whether in the Middle East or around our coast, makes the nation proud of their achievements.

For the Defence Forces to be efficient and effective adequate funding must be allocated by the Department so that this vital arm of Government can function properly. Unfortunately, over the years there has been a tendency by various Governments to treat Defence as a secondary Department and their spending was kept to a minimum. The role of the Army in Irish life has been seen by various Governments, and the public, as a force which is a back-up to the civilian service in times of public crises such as strikes or as a support force to the Garda.

If we are to take our Defence Forces seriously we must examine our objective in having an armed force. We must compare the spending and the preparedness of this country with those of other neutral countries in Europe, and if that question were examined fairly Ireland would certainly come well down the league table. Ireland has a history of under-investment in the Defence Forces, even though in the past few years considerable expenditure has been made. That expenditure has come about through necessity and due to years of neglect and inactivity by the Government.

Today's Army is on constant alert and can be called on as a back-up service to the Garda, particularly along the Border. Very often Army personnel put in long, tedious hours of guard duty against the threat of subversives. Those personnel carry a huge responsibility, they are fully trained and armed and they are expected to carry out dangerous duties. We must ask ourselves whether they are being properly compensated. I suggest, as has been stated at this week's PDFORRA conference, that they are not. Army personnel carry out payroll security duties, the transportation of prisoners and prison duties. Again I ask: are they being adequately compensated? In fact, I shall go further and say that their treatment is disgraceful and needs to be remedied urgently. If the Army carry out the same duties and work the same hours as the Garda they should be paid accordingly. As long as pay structures differ substantially there is a genuine grievance on the part of the Defence Forces in relation to conditions and pay.

Let us for a moment examine the present conditions of Army personnel. The vast majority of accommodation in the Defence Forces goes back to a different era. Many of the barracks and installations date back to Victorian times. I would venture to say that if British crown forces were to return to this country they would see no great change from the conditions at the time they left. Army personnel still have very poor quality and badly maintained accommodation and living quarters, as has been articulated very clearly in the past few days at the PDFORRA conference. The Minister would be very foolish to ignore the legitimate demands being made. The unsatisfactory conditions have developed through many years and this state of affairs again demonstrates the standing of the Defence Forces within the Government's priorities. Workers in State and private employment have had their conditions improved substantially through the years — and rightly so — and there is no reason that Army personnel should be discriminated against. It is my contention that due to regulations, discipline and loyalty — and I emphasise loyalty — within the Defence Forces advantage has been taken of their position. A classic illustration of that is the fact that the naval base at Spike Island was deemed satisfactory for naval personnel but had to be upgraded before being occupied by prisoners, and in that regard I am not talking about the security aspect.

There is a serious lack of recreational facilities in many locations throughout the country. Because of financial constraints, I ask the Minister to examine the possibility of the provisions of joint facilities between local community groups and the Defence Forces. The gymnasium in Collins Barracks in Cork, for instance, which was burnt down some years ago, could very well be a particular instance in which the community and the Defence Forces would co-operate to provide much needed facilities.

There is also an acceptance that the Haulbowline naval base has particularly poor facilities, again due to a lack of funding. That is the primary base for naval operations and should get priority. We cannot encourage and expect young naval ratings to learn skills and live in an environment that would not be tolerated by other Government agencies such as FÁS.

I take this opportunity to congratulate the Naval Service on their splendid record of fishery protection. In the past large numbers of foreign trawlers have been arrested and brought to justice. While that work is essential, I believe that it should be secondary to the role of the Naval Service. We are an island nation, but that realisation is certainly not reflected in the approach of the Department of Defence to the Naval Service. It is extremely difficult for the Naval Service to operate as an independent service when they have to contend with other Government Departments such as the Department of the Marine and the Department of the Environment. We must seriously ask what the Naval Service have as their objective and primary role as we move towards the year 2000.

Again I suggest that a much more positive role could be played by the Naval Service in the protection of our territorial waters and in the operation of a much more effective coastguard service. I do not in any way wish to impinge on the duties of the Revenue Commissioners customs officers as presently constituted, but there is a serious gap in the service as operated at present. This country has a long tradition of neutrality. Our merchant marine braved the Atlantic and German U-boats during World War II to bring vital raw materials to this country. Yes, we are a neutral country but we are not neutral against crime. We as a nation must take steps to curtail the importation of lethal drugs into this country, a matter now of serious concern to our security forces. Recent statements made by security forces have indicated that the south and south-west coastline in particular are now often used by boats coming in close to the shore at a remote spot and unloading illicit drugs. I believe the Naval Service have a role to play in that regard. In conjunction with customs officials, they can and must play a much more active role in curbing the activities of the drug barons who get rich on the misery of others.

Last year the House passed legislation on sea pollution and laid down regulations and conditions; regulations that, I hasten to say, would be very difficult to enforce under present naval operations. The Naval Service should be involved in environmental protection duties and should play a very active role in tracking down polluters of our waters and coastline and provide an inshore coastguard service able to detect the illegal importation of arms and drugs.

Perhaps there is a need to examine who should have responsibility for the Naval Service and to consider the possibility of the Department of the Marine taking over responsibility for the Naval Service. That issue should be open for debate so that we may determine which body would be the most effective in directing the operations of the Service.

One thing is certain, that the Naval Service, who are making a first-class response to their present duties are under-funded and have antiquated installations and accommodation. What is needed is a thorough reappraisal of this service, who are responsible for the needs of an island nation through the 1990s in peace and in war time.

Increased funding for infrastructural development and a greater number of vessels are required to meet this nation's needs. The legislation on the Statute Book is not worth the paper on which it is written if the relevant authorities, such as the Naval Service, do not have the resources necessary to enforce that legislation. At present the resources are not there. It is a fact that Irish naval vessels have more seagoing operations per man and per unit than have most European navies but that fact is not always recognised. There is an urgent need to increase our naval fleet to meet the challenge of the future and to recruit more young naval ratings into the service. Ireland has a proven tradition in fishery protection and other naval duties. The more we recruit into the service the more effective we can be, particularly in view of the extra European Community waters we are now asked to patrol. We have about 16 per cent of Community waters. It is now necessary to seek funding abroad in order to combat illegal fishing activities around our coasts.

Debate adjourned.
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