Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 30 Jun 1992

Vol. 421 No. 8

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Border Duty Pay and Conditions.

Michael Bell

Ceist:

19 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline (a) the average hours worked on duty of officers, NCOs and privates in Border-based units, (b) the average hourly rate of pay for such duty and (c) the average weekly pay including allowances; if he will accept that troops on Border duty work longer hours and receive lower pay per hour and per week, even with Border allowances, than operation troops engaged elsewhere; and if he will give details of his plans to redress this situation.

Andrew Boylan

Ceist:

21 Mr. Boylan asked the Minister for Defence whether a study has now been completed on the long hours of duty given by members of the Defence Forces on Border duty; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

William Cotter

Ceist:

56 Mr. Cotter asked the Minister for Defence whether a study has now been completed on the long hours of duty given by members of the Defence Forces on Border duty; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Bernard J. Durkan

Ceist:

69 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the extent to which pay parity with other security personnel has been achieved by the Permament Defence Forces engaged in joint operations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. Wilson

I propose to take Questions Nos. 19, 21, 56 and 69 together.

The present structure of pay and allowances for the Permanent Defence Forces was determined in accordance with the recommendations of the Gleeson Commission who undertook an intensive and completely independent assessment of pay and conditions of service in the Defence Forces. In addition to basic pay, all military personnel up to and including the rank of colonel are paid military service allowance as follows: Officers up to and including the rank of colonel: £1,764 a year; privates with at least three years' service and all non-commissioned officers: £33.80 a week and privates with fewer than three years' service: £12.17 a week. Military personnel serving in Border units are also paid Border duty allowance at the following rates: NCOs and privates: £37.87 a week and officers: £43.28 a week. The allowances paid, in addition to basic pay, are designed to compensate personnel for certain liabilities associated with military service, such as long hours of duty due to particular operational requirements. For reasons of security it is not the practice to disclose details regarding duties, including hours of duty, of personnel in Border units.

The estimated average remuneration of personnel in Border units is as follows: private, £300 a week; corporal, £320 a week; sergeant, £350 a week; company sergeant, £380 a week; lieutenant, £18,970 a year; captain, £21,750 a year; and commandant, £26,800 a year.

The Gleeson Commission's recommendations were based on comparison of military pay rates with rates in a wide range of other public and private sector employments, on the basis of duties, responsibilities, working conditions, etc. The commission noted that, while members of the Defence Force in exercise of their role of providing aid to the civil power, have regular contact with the Garda and co-operate with them on various tasks, the vast majority of personnel in the two forces have duties which are quite dissimilar. The commission stated in their report that they did not consider that military pay should be fixed exclusively, or even primarily, by reference to the pay rates of gardaí.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It is now almost eight weeks since a PDFORRA conference in Galway were promised that the matter of Border duty would be examined by him and the problems rectified very quickly. What has been done to date about this matter? Does the Minister not believe that there is a particular urgency to address this issue given that there is a huge inequity in relation to the duty allowances being paid to Army personnel on Border duty as against those paid to Army personnel on prison duty? Has the study been completed and has a comparison been made between the two duties?

Mr. Wilson

The whole ground plan for the payment of the PDF and FCA is the Gleeson report. That was welcomed by the representatives of the Army associations and I would be reluctant to depart from it.

With regard to the heavy hours of duty, the Army authorities assure me that in order to relieve that situation they have, on occasion, recruited people from other parts of the country on a voluntary basis to do service in the Border areas. My own view on the matter is that we need more personnel up there. As I have a special local interest in it, I am trying to work along those lines.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Following my visit to the Border area, I fully agree with the Minister that there is a need for more military personnel. In addition, there is also a need to improve accommodation at Castleblayney barracks. On the issue of Border duty there are huge discrepancies that need to be addressed. There is a high level of dissatisfaction not alone among Army personnel but among their spouses and families because of the very unsocial hours under which they operate. Has this matter been addressed?

Mr. Wilson

The level of pay for Army personnel on the Border is quite commendable. A private soldier earns more than the average industrial wage. In the nature of the job, there are unsocial hours. The fact is that most of the people who are operating along the Border have been there for a long time and they know exactly what the situation is. It is an indication of the satisfactory, if not ideal, conditions of the Army personnel that very few people are leaving the Army at the present time.

Mr. McCartan

I am astounded by the ingenuity of the Minister for Defence in seeming to rule out the fact that there are already 300,000 people on the unemployment register as having a bearing on the fact that people are not leaving the Defence Forces. While I agree fully with the Minister that the Gleeson Commission report is clearly the best vehicle for dealing with matters of pay, does he not have any role himself in making submissions to that body of departmental or ministerial views on pay and conditions? Would the Minister not accept that it is a cause for concern and that those soldiers, particularly those at the Border, work far above and beyond the average industrial worker and therefore deserve a fair return for the work done? Would the Minister agree at least to examine this matter and consult with the representative associations and let his views on the matter be known?

Mr. Wilson

I am glad the Deputy has a sense of humour. This is the first time I saw him laughing in the House. The fact is that soldiering is a profession and I do not think it is entirely relevant to refer to the numbers of people unemployed. My substantive input into this whole area is that I am working strenuously to provide a conciliation and arbitration service both for the NCOs and men represented by the PDFORRA and for the commissioned officers up to a certain rank represented by RACO.

An Ceann Comhairle

That disposes of questions for today.

Mr. McCartan

On a point of order, I would ask that the question of defence matters be looked at in the context of the way defence matters were dealt with today. Only one ordinary question was dealt with today. I do not want to take away from any other work of the House but I believe this matter deserves more attention.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to decide.