Vol. 424 No. 1
12 Mr. Byrne asked the Minister for Health if he will confirm that he has made a decision not to proceed with the planned waste incinerator in St. James's Hospital, Dublin 8, for hospitalwaste; the alternative plans, if any, he has for the safe disposal of hospital waste; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
62 Mr. Garland asked the Minister for Health if in the case of each hospital in the State he will give details of the arrangements for the disposal of hospital waste, including toxic waste; whether he considers these arrangements to be satisfactory; and, if not, he will outline his intentions in this regard.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 62 together.
I can confirm to Deputy Byrne my decision not to proceed with the proposal for a central clinical waste incinerator at St. James's Hospital.
The information requested by Deputy Garland in relation to hospital waste disposal arrangements around the country, is not available in my Department. I have recently initiated a survey which it is hoped will provide this and other information relevant to hospital waste disposal practices.
The current general policy on hospital waste is to segregate it into clinical and non-clinical components, the clinical waste being incinerated and the nonclinical or domestic waste being sent to landfill. My Department are currently carrying out a study of the options for clinical waste disposal. These options include incineration at a number of locations throughout the country as well as a number of alternative methods to incineration. It is intended that this study will lead to a waste management plan for clinical waste in keeping with modern requirements.
I acknowledge the fact that the central clinical waste disposal incinerator is not going ahead at St. James's Hospital. In the meantime, what does the Minister intend to do about the pollution that is being caused not just by the existing incinerator at St. James's Hospital but also by other incinerators at hospitals throughout our city——
Our cities.
——which are polluting the atmosphere and are in breach of the Air Pollution Act. Will the Minister close down the incinerators that are at present in breach of the Air Pollution Act? Is he aware that St. James's Hospital, using the existing incinerators, have been taken to court by the health board itself and have been fined for causing air pollution? What timescale does the Minister have in mind for arriving at an alternative? Will he agree to close down those incinerators that are causing pollution at the moment, while he is awaiting an alternative proposal from his officials?
The question deals with the incinerator at St. James's Hospital, Dublin 8, and nothing else.
Deputy Byrne would love to have it every way. When there was a proposal to go ahead with a new incinerator he was marching throughout the city and now that we have decided not to go ahead with that proposal he wants to go marching again. The whole question is being examined so that when a proper form of disposal of clinical waste is proposed it will be the perfect form of disposal. There is no magic wand and we cannot rush up to St. James's Hospital and immediately put in place a new form of clinical waste disposal. Deputy Byrne is annoyed that I gave an assurance to Deputy Gregory that nothing would take place. Deputy Gregory was in the group with me.
We want something to take place. We want the pollution to cease.
Deputy Byrne is annoyed that I have decided not to go ahead with the proposal.
We want the Minister to stop the pollution.
I say to Deputy Byrne that no matter what I did he would be displeased.
Stop the pollution and we will be pleased.
Had I gone ahead with the proposal, Deputy Byrne would have gone on marches throughout the city. Now that I have decided that it would not be in the best interests to go ahead with that proposal and that it was not the correct thing to do, Deputy Byrne is very annoyed. I want to ensure that the form of clinical waste disposal that is put in place is the proper form of disposal. I am also taking into consideration the position in Cork and in a few other places. The whole question is being examined and it is my hope that an answer will be found very soon.
I am most disappointed at the Minister's response to my question. He is still talking about methods of waste disposal. I ask the Minister whether we might not get beyond this stage of disposal. Surely what we want to do is reduce and segregate the waste. Waste should be reduced at source. In particular, we should try to find some way of phasing out PVC, as has been done in Denmark. PVC is a very lethal refuse, and whether it is incinerated or landfilled there is a serious problem. Would the Minister undertake to address this issue in a more fundamental, radical way than he has done up to now?
As I said in my original reply, I have recently initiated a survey which, it is hoped, will provide this and other information relevant to hospital waste disposal practices.
Disposal.
Yes. No matter what waste is produced, it has to be disposed of. We cannot revert to the Dark Ages when everything was just left lying around. The way in which waste is disposed of is another matter but it must be disposed of — otherwise places would be filled up to the brim.
Will hospital waste, including clinical waste, continue for some time to be disposed of in landfill dumps? Is it the Minister's intention that proposed landfill dumps such as the one in Kill, County Kildare, could be used for that purpose?
The non-clinical component will be sent to landfill sites, not the clinical.
Will it be toxic?
It will continue to be sent there?
In the meantime, of course, the clinical waste is being incinerated.
Will the non-clinical waste be toxic?
The non-clinical waste will not be toxic.
I raised this issue last June and at the time the Minister said that he was considering the options. Would the Minister agree that the incinerator referred to in this question is just one of dozens of antiquated, inefficient, overloaded and dangerous incinerators in this country? Would the Minister also agree that he is hamstrung, paralysed, in his efforts to bring about a solution to the problem because of the absence of a national waste policy and that until the Government face up to the broader issue of the disposal of toxic, hospital and radioactive waste he will have to deal with the issue in a piecemeal way? Would the Minister not agree——
Order. The question refers to the incinerator at St. James's Hospital, Dublin 8——
The matter is all related.
——but the Deputy is now referring to the whole country.
Because it is a national issue.
The Chair is obliged to stick to the subject matter of a question before him: St. James's Hospital, incinerator only.
I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, but I note that I did promise Deputy Allen that I would keep him informed on the matter. The issue is being examined very thoroughly. Deputies will be aware that I have been in office for about eight months only——
It seems like eight years.
——and this issue has been discussed for many years. It is hoped to have a national waste disposal unit.
Some Governments have lasted only eight months.
The matter is not being considered in a piecemeal fashion. It is not only St. James's Hospital that is concerned but several hospitals.
Does the Minister know that used syringes have been found around the entrances and on the road leading to Balleally tiphead in Lusk, north County Dublin, and could he in examining alternative plans for the safe disposal of hospital waste consider making some arrangements for people who have a lot of syringes to dispose of, such as diabetics, that they would be able to bring waste of that kind to such a new facility to dispose of it?
Yes, I shall look into that matter. Before being appointed Minister I did give consideration to this aspect because many doctors face the problem of what to do in the disposal of used syringes. There was a suggestion that they go to St. James's Hospital with their used syringes, but that is not the answer. I promise the Deputy that I shall look into the matter. It is an important question.
I have two brief supplementary questions. Does the Minister know that one of the options he proposed, which was based on mechanical disinfection procedures, has been rejected by the local authority, Dublin Corporation? Would the Minister say how long he and his Department are prepared to break the law by allowing the existing incinerators in the city, and particularly the one in St. James's Hospital, to continue to cause pollution? How long is the Minister prepared to break the law and not do anything about solving the existing problem that effects that individual hospital?
I suppose that the new incinerator would have been operational had the Deputy not protested but such new incinerator would not have met the standards laid down. The matter is under examination. We must consider all options. I asked the engineer in my Department to examine what was being done in Britain in a city of comparable size to Dublin in relation to the disposal of such waste. It is intended to make a comparison of a few different cities. It is important to come up with the right answer because a considerable investment is involved. The Government want to be sure that when a new facility is put into operation it is the correct one and that there will not be marches around the city by Deputy Byrne and his cohorts.
