Vol. 427 No. 4
9 Miss Quill asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if he will accept that, despite the implementation of equal pay legislation, the average earnings for women at work is approximately 70 per cent of men and that this arises because of the difficulties in defining work of equal value; and if so, the action, if any, he proposes to take on the matter.
Recent statistics for gross earnings and hours of work of industrial workers (adult rates) indicate that the average female hourly earnings in manufacturing industry is approximately 70 per cent of average male hourly earnings.
The existence of such a gap between the earnings of female and male workers in industrial employment indicates the persistence of inequalities between men and women in this employment area. The extent to which this arises from difficulties in defining work of equal value has not been adequately established. Factors contributing to this gap include not only differing occupational patterns as between men and women but also differing work organisation patterns and remuneration systems.
While the disparity in the male-female earnings shown is a problem in industrial work where many women find themselves in low pay areas and confined to a restricted range of jobs the exent of any disparity in male-female earnings for other sectors is not as clear.
I have noted the acknowledgment in the Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women of the body of expertise built up by equality officers and the Labour Court in the evaluation of different jobs using sex-neutral factors in the application of equal pay law. I consider that this is an important factor of our adjudication process.
In an effort to determine the reasons for differentials in the earnings of male and female workers across employment sectors the former Department of Labour, in conjunction with the Employment Equality Agency, commissioned research by the ESRI. I hope this work will be completed later this year and that it will provide a valuable insight into problems of unequal pay.
I must stress that finding the solution to the differential in pay between men and women does not lie in equal pay legislation alone but in improved access for women to a wider range of jobs. Nevertheless there are a number of changes I am proposing to make to the provisions of Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974 and the Employment Equality Act, 1977, in the context in the general review of the employment equality legislation. These include provision for the removal of requirements that employees claiming equal pay must be employed in the same place of work or contemporaneously with the comparator cited.
I welcome the Minister's commitment to make some changes. Can the Minister confirm whether there is a proposed European Community directive on work of equal value? In conjunction with the research by the ESRI will his Department examine the pattern in Scandanavian countries where this problem does not arise? Will the Minister agree that in many cases, particularly in the retail trade, women are grossly discriminated against and many of them are working for as little as £1.50 per hour? Would he agree that this is unacceptable in 1993? What action can he take?
I agree wholeheartedly with the Deputy that that is totally unacceptable. I am not aware of a pending EC directive on the subject but I will include some useful amendments in the legislation which I intend to bring in to consolidate the 1974 and 1977 Acts. As I said, some of those amendments will be helpful. When that Bill reaches Committee Stage we can look at the issue in greater detail and if any legislative means can be devised for improving the situation further I can assure the Deputy I will consider it sympathetically. I am hopeful that the ESRI report, which we will ask the institute to expedite — I understand it may be published before too long — will contain some helpful suggestions. If any of those suggestions can be incorporated in the new legislation I will be happy to try to do so.
On the subject of low pay for women, may I ask the Minister if he intends to take up with the Minister for Health the scandalous low level of pay for home helps in the caring service?
I will certainly do that.
Would the Minister agree that one of the reasons women end up in low paid jobs is because of a lack of access to training? Will he agree to act immediately to open up VTOS schemes to women who are excluded at present because they cannot go on the live register as they are dependants? Is the Minister aware that many thousands of women — from the many cases I am aware of this certainly seems to be the situation — who want to get training skills and want to be able to get good quality jobs are barred from getting places on VTOS schemes simply because they are on the book system of social welfare rather than claiming the dole?
The VTOS scheme comes under the Department of Enterprise and Employment and I suggest that the Deputy put down a question to the Minister for Enterprise and Employment. I agree that there has to be positive discrimination on the training issue in favour of women and that one of the reasons women earn low wages is the level of work women in industry, in particular, still do. Unfortunately they still tend to be segregated in low skill and restricted areas of work. That has to change and everything has to be done — so far as my Department is concerned everything will be done — to ensure that discrimination takes place on a positive basis to try to remedy that problem.
A Cheann Comhairle, I seek clarification——
Can we come to finality on this question, please?
I merely want some clarification. Is the Minister saying that he is not going to sort out this problem or at least to make a case to the Minister for Enterprise and Employment in regard to this difficulty which needs to be addressed now? Women are being discriminated against in relation to the VTOS scheme. They are being prevented from going forth——
Questions please.
Can the Minister not give an undertaking to take the initiative in this regard?
I will raise the matter with the Minister concerned. The matter comes within the ambit of the Minister for Enterprise and Employment and I suggest in addition to my raising the matter with him that the Deputy put down a question to him also.
May I——
A final question, please, Deputy Harney.
In case there is any misunderstanding, I wish to make the point that what I am concerned about in regard to this matter is that where women and men do the same job very often the discrimination exists because of the titles which are given to the jobs. For example, a female cook and a male chef sometimes get paid very different rates of pay for the same work, maybe because they work different hours or patterns. In cases where the qualifications are similar will the Minister make it discriminatory to pay different rates for the job?
The equality officers and the Labour Court have built up a large area of expertise on this subject and they are adept in cases of that nature, of ensuring that there is equal pay for equal work. If the Deputy is aware of particular cases these should be referred to the equality officers, who are skillful and have done first class work in achieving the level of success achieved so far in this area. The position in this respect has been substantially improved over the past ten years but more needs to be done. I hope that the amendments I will introduce to the legislation will improve that situation further.
Question No. 10, please.
