Vol. 431 No. 3
7 Mr. Dukes asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry the number of farmers who were obliged to submit their completed area aid application forms to his Department by the close of business on Saturday, 15 May 1993; the number of completed application forms received; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
9 Mr. Cullen asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry the number of farmers who were late with their applications, for area aid.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 9 together. It is not possible at this early stage to give details of the number of area aid applications received by my Department by Saturday 15 May 1993, or the number of farmers who submitted late applications. Applications in respect of land which was tilled at anytime since 1 January 1987 can be accepted up to 3 June 1993. However, in these cases aid will be reduced by 1 per cent for each working day that the application is late.
Why is it possible for sources outside the Department to say that some 2,000 applications that should have been submitted to the Department by Saturday last have not been returned? Will the Minister indicate the penalty that will apply to a farmer who submits his application by 3 June 1993? Will a 1 per cent reduction apply for ever day from 15 May to 3 June, a total of 20 days, where a penalty of 1 per cent per day will result in a 20 per cent reduction in aid? Will the Minister apply that level of penalty?
First, on the question of the Department's inability to give the exact number of late applications——
I asked what number of applications were received on time.
——I would have to be accurate in giving information to the House. The reason the figure is not available is that the applications were handed in at all district veterinary offices throughout the country and they then have to be collated and filed before a final figure can be forwarded to the Department. It is not possible, therefore, to give accurate information. Like Deputy Dukes I have seen figures on the possible number of late applications but I am not in a position to confirm that except to say that late applications will be dealt with on the basis of the details in my reply. The penalty for each working day the application is late of 1 per cent was announced when the scheme was introduced and that is the position at present. However, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, is attending a meeting of the Council of Ministers today and certain operational matters arising from our experince with this scheme will be discussed with a view to streamlining it.
Will the Minister give some indication of the number of completed applications received? Is this figure in the region of 95-98 per cent? The Minister should be in a position to give a reasonable indication in percentage terms of the number of applications received. Is the Minister of State stating categorically that the penalty of 1 per cent for each working day will apply — even though the Minister is in Brussels discussing the operational matters relating to the implementation of this scheme? This penalty will be very harsh on people who, for whatever reason, have been unable to submit their application forms on time. The Minister would be in a position to decide the penalties if he knew the number of late applications.
I am extremely anxious to be helpful to the Deputies on the far side of the House. As I indicated already we are not in a position to establish clearly the number of late applications. However a sizeable number of applications were received in the qualifying period. We do not anticipate a large number of late applications but I do not wish Members to read too much into that statement. We are anxious to ascertain the number of late applications and then we will look at the situation in relation to them.
It is estimated that 30,000 farmers could have applied in the tillage sector. It is not possible to put an exact number on those who could apply in the livestock sector because livestock farmers could have a certain percentage of their land in tillage and would be eligible in that sector. I regret I cannot answer the questions on the exact numbers involved.
As I am anxious to dispose of the other priority questions I now call on Deputy Dukes.
I asked the Minister how many applications were received on time. Is he seriously expecting us to accept that in the ten days that have passed since the application forms had to be lodged with the Department's offices nobody in any of these offices has been in a position to count the number of applications before sending them to Dublin? Is the Minister of State telling us that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh has gone to Brussels without knowing the size of the problem?
All these applications were submitted to individual offices throughout the country.
Does the Minister of State not have anyone to count them?
It is more than a question of counting and Deputy Dukes knows that better than I.
Total ineptitude.
It is a question of dealing with the applications as they are submitted by individual farmers, indexing them and putting them on file for the purpose of eventually being able to answer the questions posed by Deputy Dukes and others in this House. We are anxious to put a figure on the number of late applications for the purpose of establishing the extent of the problem which may arise and the application of the penalty.
In view of the fact that the Minister of State cannot count the applications he has received how can he count those he has not received?
Deputy Dukes should not trivialise a very serious matter, not only for the Department but for our farmers.
The Minister of State has just told us he cannot count those he has, how can he count those he does not have?
We must come to another question.
It is an extremely important scheme. We are anxious to minimise the extent of the penalties that may apply where farmers are concerned.
Question No. 8, please.
