I expected a very wide ranging discussion on this very minimal measure, and I am glad I was not disappointed. Although it was a relatively short debate, it usefully touched on a number of issues related to our intoxicating liquor licensing laws and the wider issues of the role alcohol plays and should not play in many people's lives, where it causes great hardship and damage, the role it plays in young people's lives, the role of parents, opening hours and the tourism industry. A wide range of points of view were put.
Many Deputies referred to the role of public houses in the distribution of drugs to young people. The responsibility rests with publicans, disco owners etc. to ensure that their premises are not being used by evil people to sell drugs to, what Deputy McGahon referred to as, immature people who decide to try something new for a change and who may end up very seriously ill or even, God forbid, dead. With the latitude of the Chair, we touched on almost every aspect of Irish social life with regard to the intoxicating liquor Acts.
My motivation for this legislation has nothing to do with the pubs. It has to do with the case made to me very practically and pragmatically that Christmas Eve falling on a Sunday would cause a great deal of difficulty for people who wished to do their fresh food shopping on Christmas Eve and the day before, due to the law in relation to licensed sections in shops. This does not just refer to big supermarkets. Deputy Ring said he hoped this measure was not for some big supermarket chain. Any small shop with a licenced section could only have legally opened at very restricted times on Christmas Eve without this legislation. This legislation will allow people to go to Mass, do their shopping and have a family day. My motivation was to assist people on a practical level to prepare for Christmas.
Allied to that, I also felt it appropriate not to create an anomaly. We already have enough anomalies in our legislation. I felt it was correct to ensure that public houses and restaurants would have the benefit of this change in the law.
The equal status Bill is within the remit of the Minister for Equality and Law Reform. It is not law, it is not even published legislation. I welcome what was said here today and I am sure the Minister will consider it. I share some of the concerns expressed about the latitude publicans must have to ensure they do not allow their premises to become a den where people can sell drugs without finding themselves at the receiving end of defamation claims and threats, as some Deputies indicated. Some discussion is still to take place on that section of the Bill. I understand the Minister is soon to appear before a Committee to discuss that. The equal status legislation will remove discrimination from our laws and practices and I hope Members support it. In introducing that legislation, we must ensure we do not create difficulties in other areas and I note the concerns of Members in this regard. I have no difficulty in carrying out a wide-ranging review of our licensing laws, but the Bill deals with the minimum necessary because every step taken in this area affects other areas. Deputy Creed referred to the fishing licence controversy. When the word "licence" is mentioned one is guaranteed a heated debate and all sorts of issues arise.
A major review of our licensing laws was carried out in 1988 when Gerry Collins was Minister for Justice. The review began in 1986 but the legislation fell with the demise of the Government in 1987 and the 1988 legislation was introduced in an effort to regulate our licensing laws.
Some Members suggested that different opening hours should apply in tourist areas. What constitutes a tourist area? Where would we draw the line? If different opening hours apply in tourist areas, people would go to the pubs in those areas to benefit from the late opening hours. The number of jobs provided by the drinks industry and ancillary services must be taken into account. In any event, we cannot do that as a result of this debate. It will be the year 2000 before Christmas Eve again falls on a Sunday and if I were to take all the views put forward before then into consideration I would need to begin immediately.
While I am not ignoring the interest in our licensing laws, my priority is to ascertain how drugs are brought into discos and licensed premises. The power of the Garda to enter such premises will also be reviewed. The terms of reference of the Select Committee on Legislation and Security allow it hold a wide-ranging debate on this matter. Members may think we had a heated debate on the Courts and Court Officers Bill with regard to solicitors and barristers, but nothing is more destined to raise tensions than a discussion on the wider implications of altering our licensing laws, deregulation, and so on.
The 1988 Act provides that those under 18 years should produce identity cards when entering a licensed premises and voluntary schemes are well supported by the gardaí in that regard. As Deputy Foxe correctly stated, even if it were mandatory for those under 18 to produce identity cards when entering such premises, that would not guarantee they would not get alcoholic drink some other way. The 1988 legislation places major emphasis on curbing under-age drinking but for it to be effective off-licence and shop owners would have to ask those purchasing drink if it is for people under 18 years. We know that does not happen. However, pub owners are becoming more responsible in this regard. In a number of the pubs in the town in which I live staff members ask young people their ages and do not allow them to consume alcohol if they are under 18. My children, who are in their late teens and early 20s, have brought this to my attention.
Some Members suggested I should include Saint Patrick's Day, New Year's Eve and the following day in the legislation. We cannot compare Saint Patrick's Day to Christmas Eve. I introduced this legislation because Christmas Eve is a special day in the preparations for Christmas. It is a day for shopping, going out to lunch, being with one's family and having a social drink. We recently changed the law to provide for longer opening hours on Saint Patrick's Day but we cannot consider that and other days under this legislation without examining its effects in other areas. In recent years we witnessed some disquieting incidents, associated with alcohol, on Saint Patrick's Day. Members may believe the issues about which they are concerned could be easily resolved under this legislation, but that is not the case. Even the simple request to allow people to shop on Christmas Eve led me to go further than I believed necessary.
This matter will involve a lengthy and heated debate. Many people believe our licensing laws are far too liberal and would like public houses to be open for shorter periods whereas others believe they should be open day and night. This would have implications for trade union staff members and so on. What I am proposing is not obligatory on the owners of public houses, restaurants or shops. They can adhere to the opening hours that apply at present if they wish. However, this pragmatic measure will assist those who wish to open their premises for a longer period on Christmas Eve.
Deputy O'Donoghue suggested that pubs should close at 10 p.m. rather than 11 p.m. on Christmas Eve. That would have implications for the trade and is not appropriate for discussion under this legislation. I hope people would have sufficient understanding to go home to their families when pubs close at 11 p.m. to prepare for Christmas Day. Unfortunately, laws will not ensure that people do not drink to excess. That is a personal habit and Ministers should not pretend that by introducing a law they can dictate people's drinking habits.
Deputy Upton referred to the relatively small number of public houses in Dublin. That was an unintentional side effect of the 1902 provisions. This is a major issue, especially for existing licence holders. Ideally, it should be considered as part of a wider review.
Under-age drinking is a social problem. I refer Members to the eight or nine provisions in the 1988 Act to deal with it.
Deputy Woods, and others, referred to the consequences of alcohol abuse. Between 4,000 and 5,000 people are admitted to mental institutions each year. I am not in a position to indicate, as I have not had time to research the matter, how many cases are drink related, but I am aware that in a large proportion of the cases involving people who have had a nervous or mental breakdown, alcohol is a contributory factor. Tragically, it is a factor in cases involving domestic violence. This will have to be taken into account in any consideration of the question of extended opening hours.
The case made in favour of extended opening hours on Christmas Eve and the day before cannot be made in the case of New Year's Eve and St. Patrick's Day. I have not had the opportunity to consult any of the associations concerned although I received a letter from the vintners' association in connection with this matter. There was only enough time to consider extended opening hours on Christmas Eve and the day before. I am not in a position, therefore, to accept any of the amendments. All the issues which have been raised will be considered and if there is a serious anomaly, I will attempt to rectify it.
There was reference to the position of six day licence holders who are not allowed to open on a Sunday. As Deputy Foxe and others are aware, six day licence holders have the option of applying for a seven day licence. It is a complex procedure which requires examination. In 1960, about 700 availed of the opportunity to pay the Revenue Commissioners £200 for a full licence, leaving 200 approximately with six day licences.
I thank those who contributed to the debate which has been most enlightening. I did my best to reply to the points raised. I thank Deputies for recognising that this is a minimalist and pragmatic measure which will add to the enjoyment of the public at Christmas time. Some people will have to work, but I have no doubt, in keeping with the festive spirit, that they will serve customers in pubs and restaurants out for a festive drink or to shop for their turkey and ham with a smile.
I wish Members a happy Christmas.