I wish to share time with Deputy Boylan.
Supplementary Estimates, 1996. - Vote 42: Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht (Resumed).
Debate resumed on the following Supplementary Estimate which was moved by the Minister for Finance on this day:
Go ndeonófar forlíontach suim nach mó na £40,459,000 chun íoctha an mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Nollaig, 1996 le haghaidh tuarastail agus costais Oifig an Aire Ealaíon, Cultúir agus Gaeltachta, le haghaidh seirbhísí áirithe a riarann an Oifig sin, lena n-áirítear deontais le haghaidh tithe agus ildeontais-i-gcabhair.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I did not hear the Minister's speech this morning but I read his script. The contribution of Deputy Treacy, a former Minister of State at that Department, was full of fire and passion and, while it may have came from the heart, he went overboard in describing what he claims is the Minister's negative impact in this area. Deputy Crawford said change is not necessarily bad and that institutions, such as the Office of Public Works, which have served us in an effective manner for many years are not beyond the need for change and restructuring.
When account is taken of the complex system of management in the Office of Public Works, one must agree there is a need to review its policies and structures. The Minister should be complimented on pulling together the different strands of heritage management. Until now three units dealt with such matters, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, which had responsibility for heritage matters, the National Monuments and Historic Properties and the waterways service. The personnel in those sections did important tasks. We all know that duplication and too many agencies with responsibility for similar matters can slow up responses to urgent matters. I hope when the buck stops firmly with the Minister there will be a more immediate response to some of the difficulties.
We are talking about a wide-ranging area of public life, a section of the Department with expenditure of approximately £50 million per annum and a large number of personnel. It is important that we get value for money and that responsibility rests firmly with one Minister. I welcome the pulling together of all the strands. I need not dwell on what other speakers said about the outstanding service provided by the staff of the Office of Public Works, the majority of whom will continue to give a dedicated level of service, even if they must answer to new masters in the next few years.
The new structures put in place by the Minister to deal with heritage matters will work well. The Heritage Council can advise and seek consultation with local authority groups. Local authorities must play a greater part in heritage management and development. The national monuments committee of Cork County Council has produced plans for works which they would like to carry out throughout the county, but there is simply no money for this. Up to now national monuments committees have had to deal with many Government agencies and Ministers. I hope when they are making representations to just one Minister they will be more successful in getting a response to their requests for funding. Heritage matters can be successfully dealt with by local authorities. The vast majority of local authority members, particularly in rural areas, are anxious to see the maximum possible expenditure on heritage in their own areas. This indicates strong support for heritage development within the local authorities. I hope that, with the help of the new Heritage Council, we will be able to make some progress.
I would like to comment in passing on what is happening in local authorities. Recently we received correspondence, presumably from the Office of Public Works, concerning council efforts to clean up graveyards throughout the county. Public representatives are often asked by their constituents to request the local authority to carry out work on graveyards, and generally we try to meet the requirements of our constituents. However, in recent weeks we have been told by the Office of Public Works to be cautious in cleaning up or redeveloping graveyards, particularly older ones. I agree that we should not tear up our heritage, but this is an area where we should tread with caution, given that we are requested by the relatives of people buried in old, often overgrown graveyards to have them cleaned up while at the same time local authorities are being told by Office of Public Works officials not to move in that direction. I would like to see a compromise in that area because it is necessary to carry out work on some of the old graveyards.
A heritage policy unit and the heritage service section will manage heritage properties and will have a key role to play. I hope sufficient funding will be available from the £50 million budget over the next few years to maintain our many valuable heritage properties in a proper and fit condition.
The Minister gave an outline of ongoing work and plans being prepared within the Department. He mentioned the study being conducted on a future strategy for Doneraile Park. That study is needed and it should be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible. As late as this morning I received correspondence from the Minister's colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Hugh Coveney, to whom representations were made about Doneraile Park. The Minister of State kindly informed me that the matter is now with his colleague, the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Higgins, and he has forwarded my representations to him. I hope the Minister will ensure that a quick decision is made on the strategy for Doneraile Park, a fine asset not just for Doneraile and north Cork but the entire County Cork region. It is a park which is currently drawing record numbers of visitors. Those numbers can be expanded upon and, with proper development over the next few years, it could be turned into a mini industry for north Cork. There is a local plea for a quick decision on strategy. We are not expecting all the money or work in 1996 or 1997. We would like the Minister's views on the strategy as soon as possible. The local community has issued an invitation to the Minister of State, Deputy Coveney, to visit Doneraile National Park, but as the responsibility for the park has now been passed on to the Minister, let me pass on the invitation to him and say he would be welcome at the earliest possible date to see for himself what is on offer in Doneraile.
What the Minister is trying to do is to bring together many strands, all of which worked well individually within their own limited budgets. We now need a more centralised structure. I do not believe all the decisions will be taken in Dublin because it is at local level, particularly local authority level, that much of the work will be done. Having one Minister and one office responsible nationally for heritage matters will be no disadvantage and will allow us to work more progressively on developing our heritage and our culture.
I have a particular interest in this measure because I come from Sligo which is extraordinarily rich in archaeological heritage. Recent surveys have highlighted the richness of monuments and sites in the county — a total of 4,500 sites were listed. In certain areas it is difficult to dig a foundation for a house without coming across something of archaeological importance. It is regrettable, therefore, that there has been almost total neglect of my area.
A primary example of this neglect is Knocknashee hill fort in south County Sligo. This is the third largest hill fort in the country with 40 hut dwellings dating back to 1000 BC and one megalithic passage tomb dating to 3000 BC. It has been described as a prehistoric prototown, possibly a major socio-economic political and tribal centre of its day in the province, but there is total neglect of this area with no signpost or plaque indicating its location. There is not even an access route nor does it even have the protection of being designated a national monument.
In this area there is an extraordinarily enthusiastic development group. The owners of the hill are extremely co-operative and are only too willing to give access to the Office of Public Works to do anything it wishes there, but there has been no action. I accept that in the past the Office of Public Works did an extremely good job and has a good record. I commend its officials on what has been done, but they have fallen down in the context of my area. I hope the Minister will apply himself to the needs of Knocknashee hill fort and will speedily undertake necessary works. I have the utmost confidence that he will.
There is another matter to which the Minister might apply his energy and talents. What is happening to the Armada wrecks found a short distance only off Streedagh strand in the early 1980s, comprising the most important collection of Armada artefacts from that great disaster found around any islands? There had been serious legal problems surrounding their retrieval and I commend the Minister and his predecessor on their efforts to ensure that those artefacts remained the property of the State. It is now more than ten years since their discovery. It should be possible to reach some agreement to enable work to commence on recovering the 59 cannons from the sea to form the basis for an Armada museum, together with the regional folk museum. This is Yeats country. A short distance down the strand from Lissadel House, beside Drumcliff in the shadow of Benbulben, a museum would be a major attraction.
There were some malicious reports circulating to the effect that the Minister wanted to take possession of these Spanish Armada artefacts with a view to placing them in a seafaring museum in Galway. I assured everybody that the rumour could not be true, that it was malicious. Lest there be any grain of truth in it, I remind the Minister of the fate that befell some of the survivors of the Armada fleet at the hands of natives. The same kinds of noises were being made when it was thought those artefacts might be removed to Galway. I do not believe they will but I want the Minister to ascertain precisely what is happening with regard to them. I understand that the legal complexities have now been sorted out. There is no point in behaving like the Chinese, saying that we will extract these in a thousand years' time, it will be marvellous for archaeologists of that period. Why not take action and extract them now, creating a major tourist attraction in Sligo?
I am very pleased the Minister has acquired Collins Barracks as additional exhibition space for the National Museum. One great difficulty encountered in the artistic and cultural heritage area was the lack of exhibition space. With the availability of the Royal Hospital in Kilmainham, the Royal Hibernian Academy Gallery and the acquisition of Collins Barracks, that problem has been eliminated in Dublin and elsewhere around the country where some excellent centres have been made available for museums and galleries.
We should concentrate now on the objects displayed in those museums and galleries. The Minister should ensure that all artefacts under the control of the National Museum are properly displayed, with the aid of modern technology, in the many centres nationwide. I am thinking in particular of the folk collection, which may not be germane to this discussion. While it has been widely accepted that the Minister should not fragment the great national collection, that should not prohibit the establishment of museums in Galway, Sligo, Donegal, Monaghan and elsewhere. With his additional powers the Minister's energies should be directed at the establishment of museums throughout the country.
I pay tribute to the tremendous work done by the Office of Public Works on interpretative centres which have added an entirely new dimension to the display of artefacts, thus further enhancing areas of great interest. I am thinking in particular of the Céide Fields in County Mayo, the tremendous discoveries there and the insight they afford into earlier farming methods and traditions in that area. Without its interpretative centre, the area would not be nearly as interesting for the vast majority of people.
The Minister should concentrate on such exhibition centres, in particular at Knocknashee and for the Armada wrecks which contain great potential for all of us. Although I have some reservations about the transfer of powers from the Office of Public Works — whose personnel did such a magnificent job in the past — we are making progress, co-ordinating many activities and providing the general public with a better service while enhancing the earlier work of the Office of Public Works.
Despite a few dissenting voices, I am glad this Supplementary Estimate is being accepted as a measure of progress to fulfilling Government obligations.
With the permission of the House, I want to make a few comments in Deputy Killeen's time slot.
I am sure that is acceptable and agreed.
On 14 February last I tabled Parliamentary Question No. 39 to the Minister asking the plans, if any, he has to have a full feasibility study of the Ulster Canal carried out as recommended in the County Monaghan tourism plan. The Minister replied as follows:
The possibility of restoring the Ulster Canal has been the subject of talks for some time now between the waterways service and its counterparts in Northern Ireland, the watercourse management division of the Department of Agriculture. In 1994, a scoping study of the canal was undertaken and this identified the main engineering and other difficulties which will have to be overcome should it be decided to proceed with restoration.
Consideration is now being given to the undertaking of a fullscale feasibility study which would endeavour to identify solutions to these difficulties and would include also a cost benefit analysis and environmental impact assessment of the project. The availability of the necessary funding for the study is of course a prime consideration and this matter is currently being examined.
Since then the waterways service personnel visited the county and spoke to people there. Perhaps they gave them the wrong impression but I have since been told that £500,000 has been allocated for that study. At a meeting I attended last Monday evening the restoration of the Ulster Canal was raised. When I said there was no funding provided for this study, a person from the back of the hall said they were told a few months ago that £500,000 had been allocated for that purpose. Today a Member from my constituency on the opposite benches indicated that £250,000 had been allocated, half the amount mentioned previously. Perhaps the Minister will state clearly whether such funding is available. He will readily appreciate that any public representative feels a fool when somebody contends £500,000 is available while others claim it is merely £250,000. The Minister himself has informed me he is merely seeking funding for this purpose.
While there had been an indication that grants would be given for heritage housing I have been told the Minister's Department and the Department of the Environment will examine the possibility. I should like to know the up-to-date position.
I lament the lost opportunity the establishment of the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht presented, particularly in the heritage area. While there are other areas for which the Minister is responsible and in respect of which I am supportive of his efforts, as I have said publicly here and elsewhere, today's discussion demonstrates that we are engaging in an exercise in empire-building or, more specifically, the transfer of funding for such purpose. If it were a matter of ordinary empire-building, frequently observed in ministerial jockeying for power and position, it would be negative but would be less damaging than what is taking place here.
I listened to Deputy Noel Treacy earlier and must agree with him that, at least in part, this exercise smacks of a vendetta by the Minister against the Office of Public Works, perhaps arising from that office having had the temerity to question his views on the Burren, Luggala and Boyne Valley interpretative centres. The Minister cleary will not brook opposition in this area, which is a great pity because it is important and the Office of Public Works has played a constructive and valuable role in it. Even if the Minister was operating from the best possible intentions, it is generally perceived as an attempt to put the people in the Office of Public Works in their places. The Minister has made the case for changes, on the grounds that they make the operation more manageable but, as Deputy de Valera said earlier, in inland waterways the facts do not bear that out. The Minister's Department will have responsibility but some will remain as previously with the Office of Public Works. That seems a ridiculous and unhelpful division which, undoubtedly, will lead to confusion and a lack of co-operation and ultimately waste of taxpayers' money. That is very much regretted.
If changes were necessary, an overall review should have been carefully carried out and the situation should have been examined more carefully than has been the case. This is illustrated by the fact that changes were made some time ago and the financial arrangements to deal with them are being put in place now. It is obvious that this matter has not been thought through in the way it should have been. There is a perception that the excellent work of the Office of Public Works down through the years is being devalued in petty circumstances. That damages the incentive for public servants to show initiative and it is unfortunate that it is set against the background of public sector pay disputes. That will pose very serious problems for this Government in a number of areas. Nurses, teachers, lower paid civil servants and environmental health officers are in dispute with the Government which is about to face grave difficulty with its public servants. This will be viewed as an attack on employees in the Office of Public Works.
I would prefer to see the Minister take a different approach and perhaps it would be better if he were to seek in co-operation with the staff of the Office of Public Works — with some of whom he might disagree but it is nothing new to him to disagree with any number of people — to address the very serious problems arising throughout the country. Deputies Leonard and Nealon referred to some that apply in this area. I read a newspaper report last week of the disappearance of a castle near Ennis. It is well known that there have been attempts to remove an important stone near the old church of Kilnaboy and that important stone artefacts have been removed in a great many places. I am not saying it is possible for the Minister or Minister of State to ensure that it does not happen but if there were a greater sense of co-operation and the energy which appears to be dissipated in the present transfer of power were to be directed constructively into the areas I mentioned, we would be doing a better day's work. We should be channelling our energy constructively into a policy that would ensure the preservation of these items.
People who are seeking planning permission, particularly in parts of north Clare, face the additional expense of having to have an archaeological dig carried out on their property if it happens to be near something that is located on certain maps. I have no argument with the necessity of carrying out an examination but the individual is required to bear the entire cost of the study which, in some cases if they are fortunate, is as little as £300 but in other cases it might be as much as £3,000 which is seen as a major difficulty. It is not beyond the Minister's power to find a way for the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht or the Office of Public Works to pick up the tab for these studies and subsequently own the information which comes to light because of them. This is important in the context of encouraging co-operation between local communities, the Office of Public Works or the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, whoever is charged with this particular responsibility.
My experience is that rather than progress being made in my area things are getting dramatically worse in so far as aspiring to such co-operation is concerned. I will have an opportunity at a later stage to express my views on the draft plans for the Burren which the Minister commissioned and I await the opportunity to do so. Those in local authorities who have successfully held the line on development have got very little credit for doing so from the Minister and others and are finding it more difficult in the context of the type of inevitable confrontation in the way these things are being developed.
The Minister may well bask in glory for achievements in some of his areas of responsibility. He will want to be able to do the same in the heritage area but he is not going about it in a way that is likely to be successful.
I find it difficult to identify the positives that will emerge from the changes in the Bill. To take the example of Quin Abbey, very important archaeological remains, is there any prospect that development will take place and progress made under the Minister's proposals? I am not confident that will be the case. There is no evidence from the Minister's speech, or from what has happened in recent years, that it will happen. I would be very supportive of the Minister if he was in a position to make progress in that area. There is room for greater co-operation but the onus in the first instance is on the Minister to ensure that it is possible and to make the moves that facilitate it rather than taking what is perceived as very negative action, which is unlikely to lead to any improvement.
If the proposed changes go ahead, effectively we are talking about financing them, I ask the Minister to ensure that staff in the Office of Public Works who previously showed a great deal of initiative and with whom he has his disagreements will not be excluded and that their talents and strengths will be utilised. If the Minister is prepared to do that, it will strengthen his position and lead to more constructive developments than would otherwise be the case. These people have a role to play and have shown they are constructive. The Minister can accommodate them and even if I fundamentally disagree with the manner in which he is doing it under the present arrangements I also ask him to try to ensure that henceforth these talents will be used for the benefit of the State.
Some important items of heritage may be under threat. I believe these areas should be pinpointed and action should be taken but a personal agenda should not be pursued on foot of spurious concerns about landscape, items or artefacts. Where there are genuine difficulties, it is important they are addressed, but equally it is important they are not used as an excuse. While I am very concerned about what is proposed, I urge the Minister to ensure as far as he can that the negatives are addressed and there is a constructive outcome.
We are debating, among other things, the transfer of some functions from the Office of Public Works, for which I, as Minister of State, am privileged to have responsibility, to the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht. In doing that, I wish to refer to some aspects of the past as well as the future, about which I am more concerned.
The Office of Public Works is the oldest department of State and the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht is the newest. We are dealing with a department of State that has a long and proud history and a new Department under the responsibility of an exciting Minister. He has given the arts a high profile on the national agenda which it did not have previously. While officials in the Office of Public Works regret losing part of their previous responsibilities, they are being transferred to a Department over which the Minister responsible has established a proud record in the arts.
The argument that our heritage is separate from our culture is the reason for confusion surrounding this area for the past five or six years which has spanned a number of Governments. Arts and culture cannot be separated from heritage. Historic properties and monuments cannot be separated from the culture of the nation because they are an intrinsic part of it. There is a compelling logic in what is proposed.
Through the years the Office of Public Works was given a number of unrelated functions by Governments. Its role increased dramatically in the area of heritage in the past ten to 15 years as the country began to appreciate its heritage and gave it a higher priority. Expertise has built up in the Office of Public Works and some people there regret the loss of responsibility for heritage, an important and interesting area of our lives. It is nonsense to suggest that the people who have been involved in that work will be excluded from it as many of them will transfer to a Department which has a greater focus on culture, which includes heritage. While people will always be nostalgic about the past, there is a clear logic and rationale in what is proposed.
It has taken too long to effect this transfer of responsibility. It has been progressing in a painful way since 1992 or 1993. When I became Minister of State responsible for the Office of Public Works, that transfer of responsibility was not completed. My relationship with the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht on this matter has been extremely civilised and has led to a fall in temperature over this issue and to greater clarity. Henceforth both Departments can move forward with respect for one another while performing their respective important duties.
The recommendations under discussion today did not arise easily. An interdepartmental group was set up with representatives from the various interested Departments. Some issues gave rise to argument, but that group undertook the work it was assigned and put forward a set of recommendations that were accepted by the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht and myself. We are progressing on the basis of an agreed interdepartmental committee's recommendation to the two Ministers involved. The previous speaker raised a concern about the job security of some employees, but it goes without saying that this transfer of responsibility will not affect their job security.
As Minister with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, I wish to comment on its future role. The Office of Public Works is going through a period of refocusing. It has moved from one era into another. It has a new chairman and a new commissioner. Before commenting on them I wish to refer to the previous chairman, Mr. John Mahony, who spent all of his working life in the public service in the Office of Public Works. Deputy Treacy mentioned that Mr. Mahony left without even a thank you, but I dispute that as it would have been improper. I wrote to him in well deserved glowing terms to pay tribute to the work he did for the country in his leadership of the Office of Public Works. He was a most dedicated civil servant. The new chairman, Mr. Barry Murphy, and the new commissioner, Mr. Sean Benton, who transferred from the Department of Health are both distinguished civil servants and are utterly committed to the future of the Office of Public Works and to concentrating its future on its core business, which is to manage the property of the State, a major job.
It is untrue to suggest that the Office of Public Works has been decimated by this transfer of responsibility. The transfer of functions involves the transfer of responsibilities and the staff involved. About two thirds of the previous staff will remain in the Office of Public Works. A total of 600 full-time civil servants are working in the Office of Public Works in addition to approximately 1,000 people who work in various maintenance jobs in workshops around the country. It is still a large department employing approximately 1,600 people. It has a large budget and is responsible for spending approximately £200 million per annum directly and indirectly as, in many cases, it acts as an agent for other Departments.
In some respects the Office of Public Works is refocusing. Like every Department it must consider its structures, which it is doing. The new chairman is setting up the architectural service as if it were a private practice. It must meet norms to demonstrate it is as competitive as the private sector. It is the largest architectural practice in the land with responsibility for more work than practically half the private practices in Dublin put together. Therefore, it is important that its performance is set against the benchmark of competitiveness. It is preparing for ISO 9001, an international mark of excellence.
In no sense is the Office of Public Works a demoralised, dismembered organisation. It is far from that, it is looking to the future with confidence and the expectation that the Government will not continue only to entrust it with its present core business but, in time, will see merit in conferring further duties on it in the area of public procurement.
The Office of Public Works has been asked to review the accommodation in State and semi-State bodies to ensure that requirements are met in the most cost effective way possible. It is also involved in a huge programme of construction work in every constituency and practically every town. Decentralisation programmes are nearing completion or about to commence in Waterford, Kilkenny, Wexford, Dundalk, Roscommon and Portlaoise. It is also involved with the Department of Justice, the Department of Social Welfare and other Departments in the construction and maintenance of Garda stations, social welfare offices, employment exchanges, prisons and other State buildings.
Under the 1995 legislation the Office of Public Works is charged with responsibility for a series of flood relief measures. Nine programmes are currently in place, a major study is being carried out in south Galway and measures are being taken to prevent a recurrence of the difficulties caused by the severe flooding in the south east last winter. I was happy to learn today that the EU is prepared to allocate 300,000 ecu to alleviate the hardship caused by this flooding. The Office of Public Works is preparing a priority list for flood relief measures and consultants have been appointed to advise us on this matter. The priority list for the next two years will shortly be announced and this will have a significant impact on a number of areas.
It is not widely understood that the Office of Public Works and the Minister for Finance are the direct funding agencies for Dublin Zoo and Fota Wildlife Park. The Hunt Museum, Limerick, and Birr Castle projects are managed by the Office of Public Works, while the procurement of a veterinary building in Grange is currently in hands. The Office of Public Works also has a major role to play in our Presidency of the EU in terms of the preparation and provision of facilities for meetings and it will not be found wanting in this respect.
While the Office of Public Works, which I am privileged to lead, has lost some of its functions, there is a realisation that the past is behind us and that we must look to the future. We are anxious to ensure that we have the capability to carry out the challenging job facing us in the future and to serve the Government and the public.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. On the question of arterial drainage priority lists, during Question Time and the debate on the 1995 Act which amended the 1946 Arterial Drainage Act, I requested the Minister to give favourable consideration to the inclusion of a large area of County Cavan along the River Erne basin which is subjected to heavy flooding. Every year severe flooding practically deprives farmers in the Ballinagh, Loughduff, Lackan, Milltown and Butlersbridge areas of their livelihoods. There is drumlin soil and poor drainage in this area and I appeal to the Minister to give favourable consideration to it in drawing up the priority list and to ensure that the necessary remedial works are carried out as quickly as possible.
Like other speakers, I regret the decision to transfer responsibility for the waterways service from the Office of Public Works to the Department. While the duties of the Office of Public Works since its foundation were diverse, they were also complementary. Many tourist attractions, restored castles etc., are the products of the expertise of the Office of Public Works over many years and are an integral part of the tourism product. The 1987 Fianna Fáil Government emphasised the need to develop the tourism industry. I am very glad that my party in Government decided to restore the Ballyconnell-Ballinamore Canal. I have paid tribute in this House and elsewhere to the Office of Public Works officials who carried out the work on this project. I spoke to officials in the Office of Public Works before the project was given the go-ahead and they were very committed to the restoration of the canal. They took a personal interest in the project because they realised its value from the point of view of the economy and cross-Border development.
The restored Ballyconnell-Ballinamore Canal, which is now known as the Erne-Shannon waterway, has been a marvellous success since it was opened in 1994. However, additional mooring facilities are required in Ballyconnell. This is good in the sense that a huge volume of cruiser traffic uses the restored waterway. I appeal to the Minister to give favourable and urgent consideration to the provision of additional mooring facilities. Even at this early stage in the season the volume of traffic traversing the Shannon and Erne systems has led to overcrowding. The economy of Border counties needs to be regenerated and substantial funding has been allocated for this purpose. The tourism industry has cross-Border potential and I appeal to the Minister to provide funding for the additional facilities in Ballyconnell.
At the Select Committee on Social Affairs and during Question Time I have pointed out to the Minister the importance of making the Erne River navigable from Belturbet south to Killykeen and Killeshandra and on to Lough Gowna. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht have agreed with the points made by me about the potential of this project. In response to a question put by me on 2 March the Minister stated: "I share the Deputy's view of the potential of this project".
At a time when funding is available under the INTERREG programme and to finance the work of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation, one could not have a better project for inclusion in a programme to regenerate the Border economy than the extension of the Erne navigation — a waterway system of vital importance to the economic life of Fermanagh and Cavan — southwards from Belturbet to Killykeen and Killeshandra. If this project proceeds, Belturbet will become an important hub in our inland waterways system.
Deputy Boylan and I are fully aware of the difficulties and hardship imposed on the people of the Border counties. Unfortunately, when the bombs went off and lives were lost the industrial and economic life of Belturbet was devastated. Its natural hinterland was cut off by the political troubles on its doorstep. It should, therefore, receive priority at a time when funding is available to regenerate the Border economy.
I am aware that the Minister's officials have been working on this project for some time and that a preliminary engineering report was carried out some years ago which showed that there would be no major engineering obstacles in making that part of the waterway navigable. I implore the Minister, on behalf of the people of Fermanagh and Cavan, to seek the necessary tenders for the environmental impact assessment as a matter of urgency to allow the project commence at the earliest possible date. The Exchequer will receive a return on its investment many times over.
When restored, I predict that projected cruiser traffic on that stretch of waterway will be exceeded in the same way as projected cruiser traffic on the restored Erne-Shannon waterway has been exceeded. As the report of Bord Fáilte Éireann and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board shows, it has been marvellously successful to date. Every credit is due to the former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, and the former Minister, John Wilson, for providing the necessary funding. Credit is also due to their officials who were convinced of the merits of the project from the word go when many others were much more sceptical.
I compliment the Office of Public Works on providing additional mooring facilities at Belturbet in respect of which the former Minister of State, Deputy Noel Dempsey, provided £400,000 under the INTERREG programme in 1994. I appeal to the Minister to speed up the provision of additional mooring facilities at Ballyconnell and invite tenders for the environmental impact assessment in respect of the extension of the Erne navigation southwards from Belturbet to allow construction commence on these two necessary and worthwhile projects without further delay.
I am delighted to have the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this important discussion and compliment the Minister on doing an excellent job in what would not be considered a popular Ministry. At a time when there are many competing demands, the arts would be seen as the icing on the cake, but if we were to wait until everything else is done before supporting them, nothing would ever be done with the result that much of our fine talent, culture and history would be lost.
This was brought home to me last weekend when I saw a notice in my home town which read "Young artists starvation sale" held in a local hotel. It was an excellent exhibition at which various paintings, woodwork, craftwork and mouldings were on display. They were beautiful and of good quality. Having spoken to the young people concerned, it is clear that it is difficult to succeed in the arts because of the lack of promotion. Their talent, however, needs to be nurtured.
In Cavan vocational school, which my children attend, there is an excellent arts teacher — I am sure there are many like her throughout the country. She has nurtured the artistic talents of the pupils in her class, who have surprised even themselves.
Because the economy is doing well — this is part of the agenda which I fully support — people are building excellent new homes for which they want quality furniture and original paintings depicting a local scene or church. If our young artists can establish themselves, they may be able to make it their livelihood, but it is a matter of getting through college and making a start.
On the restoration of our heritage, much work remains to be done. I compliment the Office of Public Works on the work it is doing, in which the Minister has taken a keen interest. I can only speak about what is happening in my own county, but I am sure much work is being done in every other county.
The restoration work being carried out at Kilmore Church of Ireland Cathedral, and on Bishop Bedell's grave in particular, is of the highest quality. I thought that the talent required to carry out this work had long since disappeared out of the country. I am amazed to see so many young people involved in rebuilding walls which had crumbled and were covered in ivy. I did not think it was possible to restore them.
Their talent is being nurtured through FÁS schemes. This is an excellent development which will allow them progress to the building trade in which traditional stone arch fireplaces and walls are once again becoming a feature of all good houses. This marks a move away from the bungalow bliss of the 1960s and early 1970s.
I wish to refer to the Killyclugin Stone to show what could happen in relation to our heritage. This prehistoric worshipping stone with Celtic designs was uncovered in Ballyconnell during land excavation work about 20 years ago and removed by the Office of Public Works, without the permission of the landowner or local people, to the National Museum where it literally disappeared. Using ropes and a tripod system, it was placed in a lorry and taken away.
The local branch of Foroige, a marvellous organisation celebrating its 25th anniversary this year, decided to research the history of the stone, how it came to be unearthed, and to discover its whereabouts. Having visited its annual exhibition, as a new Deputy, I put a question to the former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, who had a flair for promoting the arts. To make a long story short, he took a personal interest in the matter and discovered that the stone, which weighs about ten tonnes, was hidden behind a wall in the National Museum. Through his good offices, a replica was made, funded by his Department, which is to be found in Killyclugin.
The original stone is now on display in the National Museum, although the last time I visited the museum, it seemed to have been moved again. We have been promised it will be brought back to Ballyjamesduff once the museum is set up there. I thank the Minister for his support in this regard.
There is a lot of goodwill among people as regards important items which should be in safekeeping. They know that if they are not properly protected, they will be subject to wear and tear. We must compliment landowners and farmers because it is not easy to let someone on to one's land when something of importance is discovered. This happened recently in Bailieboro when an old tomb, dating back 1,500 or 2,000 years, was discovered during land reclamation. Officials from the Minister's Department carried out an investigation and the farmer was proud to do any work which needed to be done to restore it as a tourist attraction. Many people are talented at restoring old buildings which are part of our history.
Deputy Brendan Smith referred to the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal, which has been an outstanding success. It is a tribute to the Office of Public Works because people thought it was not feasible to restore it. Ballyconnell, Belturbet and Ballinamore are thriving towns as people travel the canal in their boats and cruisers. I advise the Minister's officials to enjoy this pleasurable holiday this summer and to see the work which has been done.
This task must be completed by opening up the section of water from Belturbet to Lough Oughter in Killykeen. I have mentioned this on numerous occasions to the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Jim Higgins, to the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Coveney, and now to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht. He told me he was interested in projects which could be completed rather than in ongoing projects. This project will not cost a lot of money because the only problem is a small portion of rock which prevents cruisers from passing. Equipment is available for such work. There should not be any red tape, although environmental impact studies are important.
I ask the Minister to take this issue on board. He knows about the success of the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal, so why does he not extend it to central Cavan, Lough Gowna and the Longford border? This is an opportunity to promote tourism and to open up a waterway which is unequalled anywhere in Europe. It would complete the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell development and it would be able to avail of Border funding which may not be available in four or five years' time. I ask for a positive response from the Minister.
I compliment the Minister on attempting to clarify the confusion relating to his responsibilities in this area. I ask for further clarification on the Phoenix Park about which it is stated that the Commissioners have responsibility, subject to the general directions of the Minister for Finance. At what point does the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht enter the picture as regards this important and historic park?
Another matter which has not been mentioned is the legal title to the various properties for which responsibility now lies with this Department. There is considerable confusion in this regard with some titles untraced and some resting with the Commissioners and the Minister for Finance. Have any titles been vested in the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht? Perhaps the Minister could clarify this because there must be clear lines of responsibility if we want effective decision-making.
The Commissioners of Public Works always stood outside the line of responsibility as far as the public service was concerned. Perhaps that is why the Minister has some difficulties in this area. It is important that responsibility is clearly demarcated. Many years ago the Devlin report recommended that there should be a Department of national culture, which the Minister now wishes to create. It is important to have clear legal definitions of responsibility. It is unclear where responsibility lies as regards the Phoenix Park.
A commitment was given in A Government of Renewal to establish a Liffey Valley authority. However, little has been heard about it since the formation of the Government. This area could be usefully associated with the Phoenix Park since they are physically related.
I congratulate the Minister on the promised legislation for an inland waterways authority, but when will it be introduced? We all welcomed the North-South link established by the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal, which was a great development. Legislation should be introduced to provide a comprehensive, integrated approach to our waterways. The Minister said he would commit some funds this year to the Royal Canal. How far will these funds extend? The restoration of the Royal Canal is important. I could not find any reference to the Barrow. I am not sure if it falls within the Minister's remit, but it is an important part of the inland waterways which should be developed. It is a marvellous resource for tourism and for the adjacent towns.
A number of possible locations for a national park were mentioned by the Minister. The development of a national park in the Wicklow area should be examined because it is adjacent to our largest centre of population. There are conflicts between agricultural, recreational and other economic uses of this area, apart from the considerable pressure of visitors from the Dublin metropolitan area at weekends. A statutory framework is needed in this regard.
Táim an buíoch do na Teachtaí go léir a labhair ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo agus tá súil agam go mbeidh seans agam freagra a thabhairt ar chuid de na pointí ar a laghad a tháinig suas.
I hope I will have an opportunity of replying to some of the interesting points made by Deputies. I pay tribute to Deputy Lenihan for his positive speech, which was constructive and full of ideas. I will try to answer some of his questions as briefly as possible. The statutory instruments I referred to this morning transferred ownership of relevant properties from the Minister for Finance and the Office of Public Works, as appropriate, to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht. Since these instruments were made, properties were gifted to the people of Ireland in the name of the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht.
I want to be as positive as I can in dealing with some points which are important to me. As Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, with responsibility for heritage, broadcasting and films, I have paid tribute to those who have gone before me. I have never failed to pay tribute to the former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, for his extraordinary interest in heritage matters, and to others. I am not interested in going down the road as to whether I am, through vanity, trying to claim credit for other people's achievements.
The purchase of Collins Barracks was suggested to me by somebody who is not in politics and is not now in the service of any politician. Mr. James Wren, who was then an adviser to the Minister for Education, suggested that the barracks would be a good location for the National Museum. In the Fianna Fáil-Labour Government, there was strong support from the then Minister for Defence, Deputy Andrews, and all members of the Government, for giving a proper home at last to the National Museum. That this is happening is important for the Irish people and it is irrelevant to look at it from the point of view of who put stamps on letters.
This morning I gave a summary of what has happened since the decision to give responsibility for heritage to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht. I could have given another version but I gave the factual one. I described how the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the monuments service and the waterways service came into existence. I also said that combining and integrating these services and having a strong Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht is doing nothing but acknowledging the quality of the work at all levels of the Office of Public Works in the service of the people. In 1975 I was a Member of Seanad Éireann and during the debate on the Wildlife Bill of that year I paid tribute to the Office of Public Works. My views have not changed since then and my admiration for that body continues.
Deputies Brendan Smith and Boylan raised questions about navigation on the Erne and Lough Oughter. I have allocated funds for the environmental impact study to which they referred. A number of design options are being considered and design is virtually finalised. I expect it will be possible to seek tenders for the part of the work to which they referred in a matter of weeks. With regard to developing waterways in the context of the INTERREG funds, I am aware of the pressure on mooring spaces on the Shannon and it is my intention to expand them. Some of the points made by Deputy Brendan Smith are matters for which the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Coveney, is responsible. I thank the Minister of State for his generous co-operation in bringing these matters to a conclusion and for the spirit in which he dealt with them this evening.
Like Deputy Killeen, I am from County Clare. He spoke about the dissipation rather than the co-operation which existed between me and the Office of Public Works. It is not my nature to go back over past events or to be interested in the dissipation of my energies or those of anybody else. I know the vigour with which the debate in north Clare was conducted. Tomorrow the public consultation will end. I introduced consultation in the widest sense and had studies carried out. There was an attempt to resolve this conflict and there is still hope. It is important that we move on to that point rather than rehearse old bitterness. It is not my concern to continue any conflict.
We must build on the controversial decisions made with regard to Luggala and Clare. It is difficult for people to move back from the positions they hold but there has been consultation and this is the way the situation will move forward. In future every other project will be developed with genuinely inclusive consultation. I was glad the Minister of State, Deputy Coveney, established that a letter has been written to the former chairman of the Commissioners of Public Works, Mr. John Mahony, who gave dedicated service to the State. When he and I had vigorous disagreements, my admiration for his integrity and contribution was second to none.
The habitats directive will be transposed into law in the next few months. The National Monuments Act, 1994, and the Heritage Act, 1995, are in place. With regard to the former, we were in a slightly better position than Northern Ireland, which discussed the Act with us and used it as a model. A wildlife Bill will be introduced in the autumn. If it is enacted, it, together with the two Acts I mentioned and the cultural institutions Bill, will form a heritage package. Deputy Quill was correct to say the absence of a wildlife Act is a deficiency. The cultural institutions Bill and the wildlife Bill are with the parliamentary draftsman. The parks and heritage areas Bill and the inland waterways Bill are at the heads of Bill stage. These two Bills and the package I mentioned will provide a comprehensive heritage package.
One of the greatest things about the Heritage Act is its emphasis on education. When I first became a Deputy I would not have been able to listen to as informed a debate as I heard today in terms of the consciousness of Deputies with regard to the priceless nature of heritage and the need for responsible actions by children and others. Evidence suggests that younger members of the population are more responsible in this regard than those who are older.
To anybody who suggests that vindictiveness exists, the Boyne Valley project, which was mentioned by Deputy Noel Treacy, went ahead because it went through the planning process without challenge. The Luggala project was turned down by An Bord Pleanála. When the Deputy looks again at the Brady, Shipman and Martin report, he will find it does not agree with the original proposals. He is not correct in assuming there is some dark intent with regard to the construction of empires. Heritage services form about one third of the Office of Public Work's responsibilities. The Minister of State, Deputy Coveney, spoke in terms of £200 million. Heritage services cost about £40 million. The Office of Public Works has a wonderful future.
Deputy de Valera has revised history. I did not suggest that section 35 was not part of the Finance Act, 1987. It was, because that was the year the Irish Film Board lost its funding. Between 1987 and 1993 it raised £11.5 million for films. Between 14 July 1994 and 29 March 1996 the amount raised under section 35 was £145,183,336. I acknowledge section 35 and the assistance I received from the previous Government and this one. The Deputy will excuse me if I sometimes say to myself that something must have been done right.
We will have other opportunities to discuss broadcasting and the arts plan. I find the point interesting in relation to the Shannon authority but this goes beyond our discussions. In response to Deputy Quill, railways are specifically mentioned very much in the same way as we discussed and I accepted amendments on the Heritage Act. I agree about the history, context and importance. Deputy Quill will find that we will be addressing the areas she mentioned in the wildlife legislation and directives in relation to NHAs and special areas of conservation.
I was moved by Deputy Deasy's speech. His criticisms of me were minor and all constructive, but that is an irrelevance compared to the passion with which he spoke, as he often does, about the irresponsible burning of bogs and heather and of hedge cutting at inappropriate times. I am looking at new arrangements. Instead of there being a fixed date, I may make a change in the Wildlife Act to enable it to be more flexible. There will be a realistic date that will take account of weather, climatic conditions etc. so the legislation achieves the purpose of the original protection. Deputy Deasy also asked about the NARGC. Those matters are ongoing and I made my views known on that at the Joint Committee on European Affairs.
While there is a court decision on the salvage ownership of the Lusitania and some of its equipment, there is an outstanding case which we have taken, in the name of the Irish people, on its contents and any paintings that may be there, as the protectors of the National Gallery of Ireland. That case is stated and is waiting to be heard.
I agree with Deputy Deasy about the paradox between European Union agricultural policy on draining sensitive wetlands and taking good land out of use. I do not want to go back over who said what.
It would have been a good idea if policy and administration had been split in the first Government. It did not happen in practice and therefore it was necessary to have the arrangement which Deputy Lenihan mentioned, to clarify who is responsible for what. What are being entrusted to my Department are clearly expressed heritage functions but I look forward to co-operating with the professional skills and the resources of the Office of Public Works and other State agencies in the same way as we always did.
Members from the waterways staff will soon visit County Monaghan again to discuss with people there the issues Deputy Crawford raised about the Ulster Canal. I thank Deputy Lawlor in welcoming our actions in relation to the canal. In regard to the temptation to say who failed to agree the two working groups' reports, I have decided to exercise restraint and leave it to history for the moment.
Deputy Nealon can be assured that I never had any intention of lifting Spanish Armada wrecks or property from the shores of County Sligo and move them to County Galway, making myself both ridiculous and absurd in the process. However, it was a great story for a while.
We made an underwater heritage order in the case of the Lusitania but this raised other important issues. I hope, in co-operation with other European Union countries, to establish training programmes. We could train people as underwater divers, for example, with the help of countries like Greece, which has great experience of this area. Through tripartite participation of European countries we can devise programmes to assess, see, preserve and make safe sunken vessels in our jurisdiction.
On the matter of monuments and historic properties, it is not just a matter of asking people to take care in graveyards. There is a good booklet, widely distributed through schools and other offices, which tells us how this should be done. It is not to serve as an impediment to good work, which is what local communities want, but set guidelines so one does not have to choose between clean graveyards and a responsible heritage.
References were made to REPS. There was good co-operation and discussion in north Clare between farmers, the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry and this Department in trying to establish a model whereby one can respect traditional methods and have good ecological practice at the same time.
Of course we need more rangers and I will fight for more money to get them. I am working on different ways and strategies of trying to do something in the short-term. They are crucial in being vigilant with our legislation. I am not happy with the present number and I am trying to see how I can resource the ranger service in the short-term, even if I cannot deal with it by way of permanent appointments for the long-term.
Deputy Deasy asked about a census of birds. From the start of 1997, there is a proposal to carry out an annual survey of common birds on a sample basis. It will be done alongside bird counts in special protected areas and special areas of conservation. We have a census but we will move to the quality of which the Deputy spoke.
I was also asked about prosecutions and there has been a small number of successful ones. The House can be assured that I intend to continue with a firm policy of prosecutions because it is the only way of securing respect for the heritage. I have already dealt with the consultations which will take place in regard to education.
The final question concerns a place close to where I was reared — Quin Abbey. This matter is currently being investigated but it would be inappropriate for me to give a more definite indication as it might prejudice negotiations which are currently ongoing.
I very much appreciate the interest and spirit of Deputies and assure them it is a great privilege to be the Minister who is taking over responsibility for heritage from where it has been so well looked after and where I look forward to further co-operation. There should be no reason for any absence of morale. We will all find that when the term "culture" is used in the future, it will include not only the Irish language, broadcasting and film but the physical and natural heritage as well. They will be stronger by being together. I hope that future Deputies will take as great an interest in this matter as the current ones.
Was money made available for the cost-benefit analysis of the Ulster Canal? I was disappointed the Minister did not reply to that.
The Deputy used two figures in his quotation. I will communicate with him in the next few days about the exact position on the canal.
Vote put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 69; Níl, 53.
Tá
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Bell, Michael.
- Bhamjee, Moosajee.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Bree, Declan.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Liam.
- Burton, Joan.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coveney, Hugh.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gallagher, Pat (Laoighis-Offaly).
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Keogh, Helen.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McDowell, Derek.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Owen, Nora.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Penrose, William.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, John.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheehan. P.J.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Walsh, Eamon.
- Yates, Ivan.
Níl
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Brennan, Matt.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Morley, P.J.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Foley, Denis.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Hilliard, Colm M.
- Haughes, Séamus.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Keaveney, Cecilia.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McDaid, James.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith, Michael.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Woods, Micheal.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies J. Higgins and B. Fitzgerald; Níl, Deputies D. Ahern and Calley.
Vote declared carried.