It is proposed to take No. 2a, Children Bill, 1997, Second Stage (Resumed) and No. 8a, statements on the 1996 annual report of the Ombudsman. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 8a: (1) the opening statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokes-persons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (2) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (3) Members may share time, and (4) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to put to the House. Are the arrangements for taking statements on the Ombudsman's report agreed? Agreed.
When does the Taoiseach propose to introduce the legislation promised on 22 July to establish an ethics commission? Why is legislation to update the most recent legislation on corruption, which dates from 1916, not included in the Government's legislative programme in view of the need to have on the Statute Book modern legislation dealing with corrupt practices?
We are endeavouring to introduce the ethics Bill this session. I do not propose to introduce legislation on corruption.
In relation to his reported remarks on a conversation he had with Deputy Bruton about payments to politicians, does the Taoiseach intend to give evidence to the tribunal personally or make a statement to the House?
It is vital that the Taoiseach and leaders of Opposition parties have private discussions from time to time. As I said here over the past two days, I had no direct information on anybody and that was the source of the discussion. I am not in the habit of making private discussions public. I do not think it is good practice.
Is the Taoiseach aware——
I am calling Deputy De Rossa.
This is in direct reference to a conversation I had.
I will allow the Deputy in after Deputy De Rossa.
I wish to raise two items of promised legislation. One is item 25 in the Government's legislative programme, as published on 25 September, which repeats the intention to interfere with the 1997 Electoral Act which provides for public disclosure of funding to parties and for public funding of parties. Would the Taoiseach agree that it would be extremely foolish to continue to implement the proposed changes that he and the Progressive Democrats have in mind in relation to that Act?
On page 22 of the programme for Government the Taoiseach promises that the Ethics in Public Office Act will be amended to apply to local authorities. When does he intend to introduce that legislation?
As regards the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, the memorandum has not yet come to Government from the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. I understand that it is to come some time in October. The ethics issues will probably be dealt with at the same time as we are looking at the other proposals.
The question I asked was whether the Taoiseach agrees that it would be extremely foolish to interfere with the Electoral Act, 1997, in current circumstances.
Not if one is strengthening it.
Issues have arisen from that particular Act, but we have made no final decisions on them. The memorandum on the issue has not even been brought to the Government.
In reference to my earlier question concerning our conversations, is the Taoiseach aware that a Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, issued a public invitation to me to state why I had gone to the Taoiseach about this matter and drew a number of malicious and false interpretations from the fact that I had done so? It was only because of the malicious and false constructions that Deputy O'Dea put on my conversation with the Taoiseach that it was necessary for me to go public on what the Taoiseach had actually said to me — he said he could finger five to nine people.
One is not supposed to take any notice of Deputy O'Dea, the Minister for school bus timetables.
It would appear to be an official Fianna Fáil statement.
In relation to my request for information on the ethics in public office legislation for local authorities, the Taoiseach indicated he would take it in tandem with the other matters referred to. At the same time, however, he says there may not be proposals in relation to the Electoral Act. Can he clarify when he proposes to bring forward a Bill to provide for ethics in local authorities?
If it is possible to include it in the ethics legislation we will do so. It would make a lot of sense to try to include both matters in one piece of legislation that would deal with the Ethics Commission and the proposal referred to by the Deputy. There has been no decision.
When will Members of the Dáil be furnished with the proposed terms of reference for the new tribunal on payments to politicians and on planning? How and when will this be debated and what time will be allocated?
Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Government is to bring forward proposals for the local government elections in 1998? Will he confirm that such elections will be held next year?
Regarding the first matter, the Whips are still discussing it and when they have completed their discussions and agreed proposals they will be included on the Order Paper. The Government has not made any decisions yet on the other matter.
Will the commitment made by the previous Government to pay £17.5 million in compensation to beef farmers be honoured and when will the payments be made? If there is a problem paying this money from Exchequer funds, will the Minister for Agriculture and Food get the Commission's approval to make these payments?
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
It arises for many farmers.
I note the Taoiseach's comments in relation to private conversations. Given that this particular conversation is now in the public arena and is reported in today's edition of The Irish Times, and the implications of these comments and this report for the political system generally, will the Taoiseach confirm or deny that he told Deputy John Bruton he could finger up to nine politicians who had received donations as large as that made to the Minister for Foreign Affairs?
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. There will be ample opportunity to discuss it next week when the motion comes before the House.
Deputy O'Dea will confirm that.
Given the implications of those comments for the political system, it is incumbent on the Taoiseach to either confirm or deny that he made them.
That question does not arise on the Order of Business. There will be an opportunity to deal with the matter next week. It is not appropriate to deal with it in detail or to make any further reference to it now.
There are few opportunities to raise this matter.
There will be many opportunities.
Is it possible to draw a conclusion from the absence of a denial?
There will be an opportunity to discuss it next week. The matter is not in order now.
Is it still the Government's intention to introduce mandatory reporting of child abuse despite the fact that the majority of those involved in this area are opposed to such a move?
That matter is still being examined. As the Deputy knows, there are divided views on this issue.
It is in the programme for Government.
In view of the fact that our most recent legislation on corruption and the definition of corruption which will be used in the new tribunal of inquiry dates from 1916 and was passed in relation to war profiteering during the Great War, is the Taoiseach aware that proposals to amend this legislation are contained in a fraud offences Bill which is number 60 on the Government's legislative programme? In view of the importance of preventing corruption in public life, will he prioritise this legislation and move it further up the Government's legislative programme?
There are proposed draft heads of a Bill on fraud but these might not cover ——
It includes amending the 1916 Act.
There are also other old Acts.
The 1889 Act. That shows how up to date we are.
That shows how old we are.
The Minister is working on the draft heads which are available.
When is it intended to bring the local government funding Bill before the Dáil? Is it intended to have the Bill enacted before local authorities consider their estimates for 1998?
The Bill should be before the House in November.
I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the exclusion of the Equal Status Bill and the Employment Equality Bill from the list of legislation due to be taken by the House during the current session. What progress, if any, has been made to resolve problems relating to the unconstitutionality of these Bills? In view of their importance to people with disabilities, there is an urgent need to reintroduce both Bills.
Both Bills are important. However, there are legal and constitutional difficulties with them following the Supreme Court judgment. The Bills are being re-examined and will be brought forward as soon as possible. It is unlikely that this will happen before Christmas.
Given the broad cross-party support it received, when will the Refugee Act, 1996, be brought into effect?
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform must make a decision on that matter and I have not been notified of a date for the Act's coming into force.
Is it intended to amend the Act before it is brought into effect?
The Minister has been considering the many complexities and difficulties which arise from the Act.
A Deputy
Zero progress has been made.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is becoming very quiet in his old age.
He has made zero comment on the matter.
(Interruptions.)
Given that valuable prison spaces are being taken up by people incarcerated for the non-payment of fines, will the Taoiseach consider promoting the attachment of earnings Bill — which deals with ending imprisonment, where practicable, for civil debt and inability to pay fines — from the B list to the A list to free up valuable prison spaces?
The Bill in question is at an early stage of drafting. I hope the Minister's many legislative proposals, including the extension of the prison programme, will help to alleviate those difficulties.
In respect of promised legislation, I am reminded that six months ago the current Minister for Education and Science claimed he could have drafted the private third level colleges bonding Bill during a train journey from Cork to Dublin. May we expect the introduction of this Bill during the current session or are there difficulties involved with it? The Minister, Deputy Martin, gave the impression he could have drafted it in one hour.
The Minister is working on proposals which he will bring before the House in due course.
(Interruptions.)
Will the Taoiseach ensure Bills are published at least two weeks before Second Stage is taken? Given that the Government has rolled back on zero tolerance, is the Taoiseach indicating that it also intends to roll back on mandatory reporting? When can we expect the introduction of legislation dealing with that issue?
It was not rolled back but rolled over.
As I said, that matter is being worked on. Not only is the Minister continuing to implement a zero tolerance policy but other jurisdictions have followed in the past few days. On the two weeks rule, a Bill would normally be published within that time. It is not always possible, as we know from the last Dáil.
Does the Taoiseach intend to proceed with the reform of the planning legislation included in the programme for Government? If he does, when will the proposals be brought forward?
We intend to bring forward the Local Government (Planning and Development) Bill as soon as it is ready.
Although the Amsterdam Treaty has been signed in the Netherlands and the debate on it took place in the House shortly after the general election, I doubt the public are aware of its contents. Will the Taoiseach consider a token Estimate for the Department of Foreign Affairs to allow a discussion on the Amsterdam Treaty so we do not have to wait for the spring when the White Paper is published?
That is agreed.