Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 7, motion re Bovine Diseases (Levies) Regulations, 1998; No. a21 on a Supplementary Order Paper, Investor Compensation Bill, 1998 [Seanad] — Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 21, Parental Leave Bill, 1998 [Seanad] — Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; and No. 3, Defence (Amendment) Bill, 1998 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 12.00 midnight; (2) pursuant to Standing Order 78(3), and in the case of the proposed meeting of the Select Committee on Enterprise and Small Business to consider the Industrial Development (Enterprise Ireland) Bill, 1998 today, the Dáil shall waive its instruction that not more than two select committees shall meet to consider a Bill on any given day; (3) the proceedings on No. 7, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 75 minutes and the contributions shall be as follows: (i) the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and the speeches of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of the main spokespersons for the Democratic Left Party and the Green Party shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; (4) the Report and Final Stages of No. a21 on a Supplementary Order Paper shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 9.00 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; (5) the Report and Final Stages of No. 21 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform; and (6) the Second Stage of No. 3 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall brought to a conclusion at 12.00 midnight.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 35, Broadcasting and other Media (Public Right of Access and Diversity of Ownership) Bill, 1998 — Second Stage (Resumed).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are six proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Standing Order 78(3) agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a21 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

This proposal concerns investor compensation. There are a number of investors in Irish Life who are entitled to compensation because of the practise of churning that apparently has been used legally by that company. I know the Tánaiste would wish to make it clear that legislation will be introduced to ban this practice and, obviously, this should be dealt with in the context of compensating those who have been the victims of it. May I have an assurance from her on this point before we agree to limit the time for dealing with this Bill?

The Tánaiste

The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, who has responsibility for insurance matters in the Department of Enterprise, Trade, and Employment has met representatives of the company. Two officials of the Department went to the company's offices on Friday, yesterday and again today with a view to overseeing the remedy Irish Life intends to put in place to make restitution to the affected investors. If extra powers are required, they will be used. I have not had an opportunity to study the legislation yet but, if necessary, we will correct any anomalies or deficiencies that exist in insurance legislation. We are determined to ensure the policy holders affected by the decisions taken by the sales staff are fully compensated as soon as possible.

Mr. J. Bruton

Does the Tánaiste agree it would be better not to conclude this investor compensation legislation today in case we need to amend it to cover compensation to Irish Life investors who have been the victims of churning? Does she agree we should not rush this legislation through today? While I have no doubt about her good intentions in the matter, if the Dáil goes into recess it will not be possible to pass legislation on this matter. Perhaps we should not conclude the legislation for another day or two so that any legislative powers that are needed to ban churning, to enforce compensation or to appoint inspectors to deal with the problem in Irish Life would have the necessary statutory authority from this House before it goes into recess.

The Tánaiste

As Deputy Bruton knows, the Investor Compensation Bill is required by virtue of an EU Directive. If changes are required on foot of the matters to which he referred, amendment to the insurance Acts would be more appropriate. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, will shortly introduce regulations that will lead to more transparency in respect of the rights of policy holders, the commission they are charged and so on. This will not only improve the regulatory environment but lead to greater transparency so that people know exactly what they are paying for. If legislation is required, it should involve the main insurance Acts which would necessitate separate legislation.

Mrs. Owen

This is a good vehicle.

The Tánaiste

We have to accept in good faith the company's commitment to compensate. Some of the matters have been referred to the Garda Síochána. If legislation is required after further consideration of the matter, the insurance Acts should be amended.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am not satisfied with that.

Mrs. Owen

The earliest that could happen would be next September.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is No. a21 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

No.

Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with item a21 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 59.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.
Collins, Michael.
Ahern, Michael.
Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
Ahern, Noel.
Coughlan, Mary.
Andrews, David.
Cowen, Brian.
Ardagh, Seán.
Cullen, Martin.
Aylward, Liam.
Daly, Brendan.
Blaney, Harry.
Davern, Noel.
Brady, Johnny.
de Valera, Síle.
Brady, Martin.
Dempsey, Noel.
Brennan, Matt.
Dennehy, John.
Brennan, Séamus.
Doherty, Seán.
Briscoe, Ben.
Ellis, John.
Browne, John (Wexford).
Fahey, Frank.
Byrne, Hugh.
Fleming, Seán.
Callely, Ivor.
Flood, Chris.
Carey, Pat.
Foley, Denis.
Fox, Mildred.
Moynihan, Michael.
Hanafin, Mary.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Harney, Mary.
O'Dea, Willie.
Haughey, Seán.
O'Donnell, Liz.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.
O'Donoghue, John.
Jacob, Joe.
O'Flynn, Noel.
Kelleher, Billy.
O'Hanlon, Rory.
Kenneally, Brendan.
O'Keeffe, Ned.
Killeen, Tony.
O'Kennedy, Michael.
Kirk, Séamus.
O'Rourke, Mary.
Kitt, Michael.
Power, Seán.
Kitt, Tom.
Reynolds, Albert.
Lawlor, Liam.
Roche, Dick.
Lenihan, Brian.
Ryan, Eoin.
Lenihan, Conor.
Smith, Brendan.
Martin, Micheál.
Smith, Michael.
McDaid, James.
Treacy, Noel.
McGennis, Marian.
Wade, Eddie.
McGuinness, John.
Wallace, Dan.
Moffatt, Thomas.
Wallace, Mary.
Moloney, John.
Walsh, Joe.
Moynihan, Donal.
Woods, Michael.
Wright, G. V.

Níl

Barnes, Monica.
Hogan, Philip.
Belton, Louis.
Howlin, Brendan.
Broughan, Thomas.
Kenny, Enda.
Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
McCormack, Pádraic.
Bruton, John.
McDowell, Derek.
Bruton, Richard.
McGahon, Brendan.
Burke, Liam.
McGrath, Paul.
Burke, Ulick.
McManus, Liz.
Carey, Donal.
Mitchell, Gay.
Clune, Deirdre.
Mitchell, Jim.
Connaughton, Paul.
Mitchell, Olivia.
Cosgrave, Michael.
Neville, Dan.
Crawford, Seymour.
Noonan, Michael.
Creed, Michael.
O'Keeffe, Jim.
Currie, Austin.
O'Shea, Brian.
De Rossa, Proinsias.
O'Sullivan, Jan.
Deasy, Austin.
Owen, Nora.
Deenihan, Jimmy.
Perry, John.
Dukes, Alan.
Quinn, Ruairí.
Durkan, Bernard.
Rabbitte, Pat.
Farrelly, John.
Reynolds, Gerard.
Finucane, Michael.
Sargent, Trevor.
Fitzgerald, Frances.
Sheehan, Patrick.
Flanagan, Charles.
Shortall, Róisín.
Gilmore, Éamon.
Stagg, Emmet.
Gormley, John.
Stanton, David.
Hayes, Brian.
Timmins, Billy.
Higgins, Jim.
Upton, Pat.
Higgins, Joe.
Wall, Jack.
Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Sheehan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

I understand the Government has not completed its work on the Firearms Bill, yet it wants the Dáil to take it tomorrow. Given the serious nature of firearms legislation, the Government's proposal to introduce a more favourable regime in terms of issuing firearms to visitors to this country than applies to people who live here and that such discrimination should be based on law if it is not to run contrary to the Constitution, what is the Government doing that it has not produced this legislation which it wants to debate in the House tomorrow?

Mr. Stagg

We were promised at a Whips' meeting that we would be given a draft of this Bill at an early stage. However, it has not yet seen the light of day. We are expected to discuss this serious measure as if it is an emergency over the next two days. I will oppose it being taken at all unless we receive the Bill as quickly as possible.

Ms McManus

The Tánaiste should be aware that there is great concern about this Bill. The fact it has not been published yet makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for us to debate it properly and to give it the attention it deserves. I ask her to consider moving the debate until later tomorrow to give us an opportunity to examine the Bill's provisions and to deal with this extremely important measure in a way that is appropriate to this House.

The Tánaiste

I apologise to the House for the failure to produce the Bill. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been working on this over the weekend and I understand it will be ready later this evening. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform intends to arrange for Opposition spokespersons to be briefed. Deputy McManus made a valid suggestion. The Government would be prepared to discuss this Bill later tomorrow. I regret that it has not been published yet, but Deputies will be able to see it later in the evening. If the House is agreeable, we can discuss it later tomorrow.

Mr. Stagg

It should be put back until September.

Mr. J. Bruton

Does the Tánaiste not agree that part of the problem——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on it. A fair amount of latitude has already been given.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is there not a great risk that the Dáil will make another mistake if it rushes this legislation through? It is not just a matter of having consultations with the Opposition or postponing it for a few hours.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are not having a discussion on the issue.

Mr. J. Bruton

Could we not postpone it for longer than that?

Mr. Quinn

Has the Government, in the light of its experience, any proposals to establish on a separate basis the Department of Justice and the Department of Equality and Law Reform given the overload of work which is bearing on the shoulders of the Department of Justice?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy puts down a parliamentary question.

Mr. Quinn

Perhaps the Tánaiste could give a rational explanation as to why there is a problem.

When will we have the draft of the Criminal Justice (Release of Prisoners) Bill, 1998, which we are due to debate on Thursday?

The Tánaiste

That Bill was published this morning.

The Government has no plans to separate the two Departments. We want to bring things together, not separate them.

Mr. J. Bruton

That requires freedom of information.

The Tánaiste

There has been an unprecedented legislative programme this year with over 40 Bills having been introduced by the Government. As Deputies know, the Firearms Bill arose from a High Court decision two weeks ago. It is urgent that we deal with it for the tourist season.

Mr. Stagg

That was a good court decision.

The Tánaiste

I believe it is. I am sure Deputies will agree that those who want to get genuine hunting licences should be entitled to them.

Mr. J. Bruton

How genuine?

The Tánaiste

We can debate the legislation when it is published.

Mr. J. Bruton

We will not have much time to debate it.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Government should have second thoughts about rushing this Firearms Bill through the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy McManus has already spoken on that issue.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Government should remember the rod licence issue and the way things came unstuck. It was rushed through this House and it was bad legislation. It is not a good idea to rush legislation through the House, particularly legislation relating to firearms.

Perhaps the Tánaiste could indicate when the immigration Bill and the immigrants trafficking Bill will be brought before the House.

The Tánaiste

The Firearms Bill seeks to deal with what has been law since 1926.

Mr. Stagg

That is not right.

The Tánaiste

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has informed me that he has just received a copy of the Bill. The Opposition will be able to get it later. As regards the immigration legislation, I understand we do not have a date for that at present.

Proinsias De Rossa

On a point of order, we were informed some months ago by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that he was dealing with the immigrants trafficking Bill as a matter of urgency. The Tánaiste now tells us there is no date for it.

The Tánaiste

The immigrants trafficking Bill will be published during the recess. However, we do not have a date for the immigration Bill.

Mr. G. Mitchell

It is unacceptable that Bills are brought into the House immediately before the recess.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a question about particular legislation.

Mr. G. Mitchell

In view of the fact that the electoral boundaries will be known some time this week or next week and the Minister for the Environment and Local Government has promised legislation on the direct election of county council chairpersons and mayors, will the Government ensure that this legislation is published soon so that we have it well in advance of the local elections next year? I ask the Tánaiste to tell the House when the Bill will be published.

The Tánaiste

It is important that the legislation is published as quickly as possible, but the Minister for the Environment and Local Government wants to wait for the report before he introduces the legislation. I understand we will have it later this year which will be in plenty of time for the local elections.

Mr. Quinn

What report?

Mr. Sargent

In light of the recent Central Statistics Office figures which show that the price of basic foodstuffs has increased more than the rate of inflation, when will the Government's promised report on guaranteed basic incomes be published?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Sargent

It was promised by the Government.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy can put down a parliamentary question.

Mr. Sargent

I ask the Tánaiste to clarify if the Minister for the Environment and Local Government will publish legislation on the dual mandate before or after the local elections.

The Tánaiste

That issue will be dealt with in the local government reform Bill which will be published in the autumn.

Mr. Neville

When will the Government introduce a Bill to set up a register of child sex offenders in view of the allegations by the team leader of Crosscare's support unit that hundreds of boys are being abused by an extensive paedophile ring which exists from Belfast to Dublin and which is co-ordinated in Dublin?

The Tánaiste

I understand that issue is dealt with in the Minister's discussion paper on child sexual offences. When discussions have taken place and responses have been received, the Minister will consider the matter.

Mr. Stagg

On foot of the letter issued by Magill, the statement made by the Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob, in the House and the contradiction between the two, will time be made available for the Minister of State to correct the record? I presume the Minister of State will be anxious to make a personal statement to clarify this situation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a question for the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Tánaiste indicate the position on the proceeds of crime Bill?

The Tánaiste

In relation to Deputy Stagg's question, I understand that issue was dealt with in the House last week and the Minister has responded today to a question on the Order Paper. Hopefully, that will deal with the issue.

I understand the proceeds of crime Bill will be introduced early in the next session.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is that a guarantee?

Mr. Quinn

Is the Tánaiste in a position to indicate whether the Government will have to introduce emergency legislation to provide for contingency arrangements in view of the failure of the gardaí and the Government to reach a satisfactory outcome on the pay negotiations?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not an appropriate question for the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

Will emergency security legislation be introduced?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is emergency legislation promised?

The Tánaiste

No, I do not believe legislation will be necessary. That will be an operational matter. The Government is hopeful we can resolve this issue. We do not want to contemplate contingency regulations.

Mr. Rabbitte

Before the prisoners' Bill is due to be taken in the House, will the Tánaiste ensure that the present arrangement, whereby all Stages are taken together which does not facilitate any discussion on Committee Stage, will be reconsidered to ensure some time lapse will be permitted to enable Committee Stage to be taken subsequently?

The Tánaiste

It would be helpful if the Chief Whip and the Whips of the other parties discussed that matter. We want to pass that legislation before the Houses of the Oireachtas go into early recess because of the construction work that has to take place here.

Mr. Rabbitte

We are not putting them on the building, are we?

The Tánaiste

As that work will begin later this week, we must get this Bill through the Seanad. If it is possible to facilitate the Deputy's request, we would want to do so.

Mr. Quinn

We should separate it. It would only require a matter of a couple of hours.

Mr. Kenny

Will the Tánaiste confirm if the Government has considered the memo on broadcasting prepared by the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands and as she has recommended digital terrestrialism as a method of digital transmission, is it intended to appoint a broadcasting regulator before that Bill is published? Will she confirm when the Bill will be published?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter is not in order.

Mr. Kenny

Will the Tánaiste confirm when the Bill will be published?

The Tánaiste

The Government has not yet considered that matter, but it is intended to publish the Bill by the end of this year.

Mr. Kenny

It was supposed to be published before July.

Mr. Howlin

During the passage of the Local Government Bill, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government indicated that its provisions to provide for a retirement package for councillors would be published in June. Is it envisaged they will be published today? The scrappage programme.

Mr. Stagg

Do they not tell the Tánaiste anything?

Mr. Rabbitte

Whenever there is a few bob involved they do not tell her.

The Tánaiste

I was away last week, but I understand a commencement order was made.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): Will the Tánaiste indicate the position regarding two long promised Bills, the attachment of earnings Bill and the indexation of fines Bill?

The Tánaiste

I wonder how many members of the Opposition will apply for the package for retiring councillors.

Mr. Howlin

The Tánaiste should look to the benches behind her.

The Tánaiste

I am looking across the floor of the House. It is a very attractive package.

Mr. D. Ahern

Deputy Howlin seems to have an interest in it.

Mr. Howlin

I have not been a member of a council for the past five years.

Mr. G. Mitchell

It could be introduced retrospectively.

The Tánaiste

The Bills about which Deputy Higgins inquired are at a very early stage of preparation.

Ms McManus

The Minister for Health and Children promised to publish a Green Paper on Abortion and he undertook to have it published in June, but it is no surprise there has been a delay in its publication. Will the Tánaiste clarify when it will be published?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not an appropriate question for the Order of Business.

Ms McManus

This proposed Green Paper is of major importance and likely to lead to some sort of legislation. The Minister gave an undertaking to publish it, but since then we have not heard a word about when it will be published. Will the Tánaiste clarify the position?

The Tánaiste

As the Deputy knows, submissions were invited from the public on this issue. A large number of submissions were made and they are being considered by the Cabinet sub-committee which met about ten days ago to discuss this issue. It will be some time yet before the Minister is in a position to publish a Green Paper.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 30 Jun 1998

Order of Business.

Tá

Níl

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 30 Jun 1998