I indicated that I would call the Taoiseach and the party leaders to make a brief comment.
Order of Business (Resumed).
I do not know if there will be a Supplementary Estimate but if there is, it can be debated in the House if the Opposition parties do not wish to debate it at the select committee. The figures mentioned have probably been taken from the memorandum issued by the Department of Finance yesterday. To say there are balances is to misrepresent the position. If further information is required, Members should table questions to the Minister for Finance. The Estimates do not represent the final end of year position. Appropriations-in-Aid and other figures have to be taken into account. I am not prepared to debate a token Estimate. Any requests that the Opposition parties wish to make should be submitted through the Whips in the normal way.
Consultants have said patients will die for lack of operations postponed or cancelled because of ward closures which are not confined to Galway or Tullamore. I have no doubt there will be ward closures in other hospitals throughout the country. The Minister for Health and Children has an extra £32 million, collected in health levies which were imposed on the PAYE sector specifically to provide health services, which is not being released to prevent ward closures.
The Minister and the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children have accused the health boards of mismanagement. Questions have to be asked about the Minister's management of his finances and his ability to foresee difficulties given that, on the one hand, wards are being closed and, on the other, money is available to prevent this.
I am not asking the Government to introduce a Supplementary Estimate to provide extra money for health services as extra money is not required; rather there should be a token Supplementary Estimate to allow the Minister to explain what he will do with the £32 million. I hope he will say he will allocate some of it to keep wards open and allow operations continue.
I am surprised the Taoiseach who is well qualified in health matters having worked in this area in his private life and as an accountant does not understand the situation where there are unspent balances which are available to prevent patients from being kept in queues, who are being prevented from seeing consultants and who are being allowed to face Christmas with the anxiety of pain and even death hanging over them. They could have their pain relieved or their lives saved if the money was released.
What the House wants and what the Opposition parties are demanding is a debate on the contradiction whereby, on the one hand, there appears to be a sum of £32 million unspent and, on the other, there are ward closures because of lack of resources. While I take the Taoiseach's point, if the figures available are correct, a Supplementary Estimate is not required to provide extra money. This contradiction is incomprehensible to the public, especially those living in the catchment area of University College Hospital, Galway.
The Whips should meet before lunch to find a vehicle to enable us to have a focused debate on this ridiculous situation. I detected in the Taoiseach's final remarks a willingness to allow the Whips to discuss the matter. Time should be made available today or next week depending on the availability of the Minister who, with the Minister of State, was scalded in the House last night and who is probably still licking his wounds.
The Minister of State is in the Seanad.
The Deputies opposite should hope that Deputy Gildea is not deflected off course or they will be in trouble.
It is important that we debate this issue. It is even more important that the Government at its meeting next Tuesday makes a decision that the £32 million should be applied to opening wards and shortening queues so that patients who are facing what is in effect a death sentence can have some hope that they will survive. Deputy McManus predicted some months ago that patients would die if steps were not taken——
What happened in 1995 and 1996 when the Deputy was a member of the Cabinet?
Deputy Callely may not be aware that in the past year in my constituency a man in his forties who was two years on the waiting list died from a heart condition. A four month old child also died for the want of an operation. This is not acceptable at a time when there is £1 billion lying in a bank unspent. A decision is required that the money needed to provide a decent health service will be made available so that patients will not have to die to create a crisis and enough energy in the Government to make a decision to save lives.
If there is a Supplementary Estimate, it can be debated in the House. I have read the statement issued and seen the balances. As Deputy Bruton is well aware, whatever is available will be spent this year by the Department. The Deputy understands the process, as I do, well. Appropriations-in-Aid and other figures have to be taken into account.
The money is available.
I would be amazed if that was the position.
The Taoiseach should not be amazed.
We cannot have accountants making life and death decisions.
Any moneys allocated to the Department's Vote will be spent this year.
The Taoiseach is misinformed.
I doubt that. The Appropriations-in-Aid only become known on the tenth day of the new year.
It is too big a sum; it is not small change.
The Deputy was not so hot with his calculations.
The House will have the opportunity to discuss the 11 per cent increase in the 1999 Book of Estimates, which amounts to more than £307 million, and I imagine that the Fine Gael Party, which was strongly in favour of the legislation to try to control expenditure, would be supportive of probably the first Minister ever who stood up and tried to control the Department of Health Estimate on a balanced basis.
Fine Gael brought it in.
Give them the money.
We must now proceed.
I have allowed——
(Interruptions.)
Can the Whips meet?
Yes. We now proceed to item 23.
I will not agree to this proposal in the absence of an adequate explanation.
Will the Government stand over people dying due to its inaction?
We must proceed with item 23. I call on the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Davern.
We do not have to proceed. The Government has walked out.
I will not agree to this proposal because we have not been given an adequate proposal.