Vol. 502 No. 5
6 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources if there has been a depletion of whitefish stocks in the Irish exclusive zone; and, if so, the plans, if any, he has to demand that the number of licences being granted to vessels from other EU countries to fish within our exclusive zone be reduced. [8611/99]
More than 30 whitefish stocks around Ireland were scientifically assessed in 1998. On the basis of the assessments, Irish and EU scientists expressed concern about the state of a number of these stocks. These include monkfish, haddock and saithe off the north west coast, cod and whiting in the Irish Sea and sole, plaice and hake in the Celtic Sea. These concerns were reflected in the total allowable catches, TACs, agreed for 1999 at the Fisheries Council last December. I have worked to achieve a balance at Council between maximising the fishing possibilities for Ireland while ensuring conservation objectives are met through the setting of sustainable TACs geared to protect the long-term viability of stocks.
The Common Fisheries Policy embodies the principle of free access, subject to quota entitlement, to the fishing grounds of member states beyond the 12 mile limit. Where member states have quota entitlements in the Irish zone, the fishing activity of their vessels is subject to quota limitations and to the maximum levels of actual fishing effort permitted in western waters. In addition, under the Iberian Accessions Agreement, the total number of Spanish vessels permitted to fish at a given time in the waters around Ireland is 93, of which no more than 40 vessels may fish in the Irish Box. Overall access arrangements within European waters are a matter of Community competence and Ireland cannot take unilateral action to reduce the number of vessels licensed by other member states to fish their quotas in our zone.
Within the CFP framework the instruments used to conserve stocks include the TAC and quota regime which limits the amount of fish member states can catch, together with conservation and enforcement. New control measures have been adopted that will strengthen our ability to ensure member states fishing in our waters comply with quota and conservation rules. New conservation measures to protect juvenile stocks will come into force in January 2000. I am also working to bring about further improvements to these measures. When I met the Spanish Fisheries Minister in January I stressed to her the need for enhanced conservation in the monk and hake fishery. We agreed officials should review together the scope for additional conservation measures which will be taken up with the EU Commission and the other member states concerned.
The Minister's statement that 30 species are under threat is alarming. Are the measures the Minister is taking sufficient to counteract the depletion of stocks? Are the experts happy with the situation?
It is difficult to determine the status of the stocks. For that reason these surveys were done on a scientific basis and an excellent document, running to hundreds of pages, was produced in time for the negotiations. We have to discuss that report with the fishermen and the organisations and try to find a reasonable balance.
In regard to the European Union, it is significant that while we may argue about the stocks we are committed to their sustainability. There is always an argument about what that means in terms of the quotas for a particular year because it will affect people's livelihoods, but the experts' views are accurate. They are with us in the negotiations and they will guide us on how far we can go. That is also the case in the discussions with the fishermen. Like scientists, they get the best scientific data they can but they recognise they do not have all the information. I accept the point that this matter needs to be carefully monitored.
We are trying to ensure the quotas taken by individual states or vessels are not excessive and do not exceed the figures allocated to them. For that reason, we are forever tightening up on surveillance. Last December the Fisheries Council agreed on measures to improve control and enforcement. These measures which were put forward by us will come into force on 1 July this year and will help to tighten up on the monitoring and inspection, particularly of flag ships. These new measures for which I pushed strongly at the Council will help to create the much needed level playing field in fisheries control.
The Minister only partially answered the question. Some of the species he mentioned are the bread and butter of Irish fishermen and include monkfish, haddock, plaice, sole and hake, which is a very important fish as far as the Spaniards are concerned. We should be knowledgeable enough to know to what degree these stocks are being depleted. The depletion level of some species may be 10 per cent less than the minimum we would like and in other cases it may be more than 90 per cent. We must quantify to what degree those 30 species have been depleted.
Early last year, after a couple of very serious incidents involving the ramming of Irish fishing boats by Spanish ones, a large number of Spanish boats were arrested for illegal fishing and for irregularities as regards their log books, catches, secret holds with undersized fish and so on. Strangely, this year I have heard little or no mention of Spanish boats, which are the main offenders in overfishing and illegal fishing, being caught or prosecuted. Have Spanish fishermen reformed? If they have, it would be like the conversion on the road to Damascus. It would be a bolt from the blue.
I take it the Deputy is putting a question.
With all due respect, a Cheann Comhairle, a Kilkenny man might not have the same interest or patent where fisheries are concerned. What has happened? Have the Spaniards been transformed? Have they stopped fishing? Will the Minister give me an explanation?
There are two aspects, the quantity of fish, which is measured as scientifically as is possible, and overfishing When we come to the negotiations at the end of the year, we have the best possible information available. We look at where the stocks stand and difficult decisions must be made. That is based on scientific information which is improving all the time. There are many difficulties in reaching the quotas but having done so, we ask if there is a level playing field.
There is no question there has been a tightening in control and surveillance, which will be further tightened this year. It is not an easy task but we currently spend approximately £57 million on surveillance and we have EU support in doing so. We have, however, large areas to police. We are bringing in additional regulations. I had discussions with the Spanish Minister about checking landings in Spain. There is fairly rigorous checking of flag ships and other ships when they land here. We also have bilateral discussions with our friends in the UK on the same basis to make sure there is a level playing field because there were various practices where people were landing in other ports and so on.
Some very important steps have been taken. The Spanish have agreed to exchanges among our inspectors and theirs and for our inspectors to go to Spain to look at what they are doing at landings and as regards control. That is a very important step forward. I know the Deputy is very cynical about what might emerge but, nevertheless, one would like to think reasonable checking takes place at the landing stage.
The EU regulations require that all foreign registered vessels, including flag ships, give a minimum of two hours' notice of their intention to land. In our case, flag ship landings are mainly into Killybegs and Castletownbere. Over 75 per cent of all landings by flag ships are monitored and inspected by the Department's sea fishery officers on a random basis, although the fishermen will say it is fairly frequent.
The new control regulations which will come into force in July this year will require flag ships to provide a minimum of four hours' notice of landings. This has been a bone of contention previously. The Deputy might remember a television broadcast about a particular landing which gave notice after hours in the evening.
I saw the "Cook Report" on ITV and the scandalous carry-on at Spanish ports.
I saw that programme too. That is one of the reasons we want that relationship with the inspectorate in Spain, that is, to make sure we are all doing the same thing. That is one of the measures which will strengthen the situation.
A number of other measures will be introduced this year. I know this is a constant problem and is very important but these are two separate things. When we come to work out the quotas, we look at the number of fish left in the water. It is another question as to who took what. If we could get a level playing field, we would probably find some stocks might increase as we come up to the next quota regime, and that would benefit everyone.
Does the Minister really believe the Spanish have reformed?
It was the Deputy who spoke about reform. We must be very vigilant and I fully realise it is a tough business. The Deputy can be assured we will do what we can in that regard.
We are also introducing satellite monitoring of boats and will be able to identify where they are at any time. They will have to report what they have coming into any of our zones or areas. It is as far as we can go within the EU compared to what is being done in Norway, for example. They run their own show and one must go with one's boat to a particular place. Although there is freedom of movement within the European Union, one will now have to report what one has on board as one comes into one of our zones and as one leaves it. That makes it much easier for the inspections. We are tightening up all the time.
There are two aspects to this, one is general conservation and sustainability and the other is the level playing pitch. On general conservation and sustainability one only has to look at other countries like Canada and Newfoundland where cod were wiped out completely. In fairness to the EU, although probably as a result of the questions we ask and the pressure applied by the fishermen's organisations, we achieve a reasonable balance in relation to conservation. If we can achieve a level playing pitch, conservation will be better. Incidentally, there was a large increase in haddock stocks this year, although nobody really knows the reason.
The Minister recognised the importance of the control, surveillance and protection of our native fishing waters and that it must be thorough and efficient. That can be judged on the number of foreign vessels that have intruded into our waters and the number of persons arrested for that offence. How many were arrested in 1998 and so far this year?
I do not have that information with me. If the Deputy wishes, I can get those figures and arrange to have them circulated to the Deputies present.
That is a separate question.
I understand there were 70 last year and only two this year.
We are getting to grips with the problem.
I wonder about that. My faith in human nature is not as strong as the Minister's.
The surveillance is ongoing.
I do not blame my colleague, Deputy Deasy, for being cynical.
He is sceptical.
He is probably also cynical. The Spanish fishing fleet consists of 20,000 vessels compared to our fleet of 2,000 vessels. Fishing is part of the fabric of the Spanish economy. I am not sure if the reciprocal arrangement about inspectors agreed between the Minister and Minister de Palacio, the Spanish Minister for fisheries, is achieveable. Vigo is a large fishery port in Spain and fishing forms a major part of its local economy. Many people involved in supervisory positions in Vigo are either sons, daughters or relatives of people employed on the fishing fleet, and a nod and wink culture permeates there. Our inspectors are regarded in our fishery ports as being extremely vigilant. That contrasts sharply with their Spanish counterparts.
That is why I want to bring them together. We need to agree on a level playing field. If we are to operate certain measures in compliance with EU requirements, others will have to do the same. If they do not, we must know about it and highlight it. Discussing these issues with the people involved is an important advance. I accept that there can be great difficulties. These difficulties have to be brought home to the Spanish Administration and we will bring difficulties of which we become aware to its attention.
There are other aspects related to the point raised by the Deputy. The Spanish fishing fleet has a strong regional management compared to our fishing fleet which has a central management and a few people based locally. We have a controlled system. I do not know if is true that relatives of inspectors are working on the Spanish fishing fleet.
It is.
I accept what the Deputy said. Because of the regional management structure of the Spanish fishing fleet its operation is very different from ours. That is one of the aspects with which we are trying to get to grips. I am planning to visit Spain fairly soon to consolidate what we have been doing. Our inspectors will also discuss these issues with their counterparts in Vigo and we will see what they come up with.
The ITV programme was graphic in its description of what was happening in the Spanish port. It reported that the landings were controlled by the terrorist group ETA and the fisheries officers there were terrified to examine the catches. Examination and surveillance does not count for anything, if fishery officers are intimidated.
It does if ships are caught at sea. We have a very large number of boardings. Checking through satellite surveillance and other forms of surveillance is being tightened up. TV crews have come here for a day to report some aspect or about some person and they often report their findings to the effect that such activities are generally taking place. On investigation it is often found that such activities are not general as we were led to believe but are specific activities that nevertheless require investigation.
There was the case of a vessel that came into Castletownbere late at night. It was suggested that the fishery officer got out of the way, allowed the vessel come in, the crew to offload late and that the operation was sloppy. That was not the case. Notice had been given but it was given after the office had closed. That does not happen on many occasions but it led us to seek four hours' rather than two hours' notice. Fishermen here alert people about what is happening and would alert people about that type of practice.
By strengthening controls, we can cut out some of these measures. I do not know the extent to which the matters reported in Vigo on the TV programme are taking place. It was claimed the level of surveillance was low and that checking was infrequent and, consequently, fishermen land many more fish. We will closely monitor that. We discussed that with the Spanish Minister who agreed that our inspectors should join the Spanish inspectors and examine the systems, the methods used and what is happening. We cannot do much more than that. This will be an important development, if we can proceed along these lines.
