Vol. 515 No. 3
1 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the arrangements, if any, in place to service the requirements of Independent Deputies in addition to the normal secretarial assistance provided; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4351/00]
2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the nature of the arrangement the Government has entered into with Deputy Foley; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4358/00]
3 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the nature of the understanding between the Government and Deputy Foley; the written agreement, if any, which exists; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4361/00]
4 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the agreement or understanding, if any, which exists between the Government and Deputy Foley; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5924/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.
I have explained on a number of occasions the arrangements that are in place in my office to deal with the Independent Deputies who support the Government. As I confirmed before, a staff member in my office assists the Chief Whip's office in its work with these Deputies, which includes regular meetings. I also meet them from time to time in my office and arrange to keep them briefed on issues and assist in arranging meetings with Ministers as the need arises.
In the case of Deputy Foley, I confirm to the Dáil that in his letter of resignation sent to the Chief Whip he undertook to continue to support the Government. No other arrangements are in place.
Is the Taoiseach aware that recently, since Deputy Foley ceased to be a member of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government refused to meet a cross-party delegation from Kerry County Council but met a Fianna Fáil delegation which included Deputy Foley? In light of this decision does the Taoiseach think it would be right for a Deputy such as Deputy Foley, who is an undischarged tax evader, to be a Fianna Fáil candidate at the next election?
I understand the Minister for the Environment met a group of Fianna Fáil councillors – it was not a question of a delegation that he refused to meet; it was a group of Fianna Fáil County Councillors which I do not think around be unusual for him.
It included Deputy Foley.
Yes. He is a councillor and a member of the Fianna Fáil Party and therefore I do not think that was unusual. What happens Deputy Foley ultimately is a matter for the party's national executive, his constituency organisation and will also depend on the findings of the report. The parliamentary party has stated that on the conclusion of the Moriarty tribunal it will reach a conclusion on members inside and outside the parliamentary party and within the organisation.
I am anxious to know the Taoiseach's opinion. Does he think it is right to put up a tax evader as a party candidate?
That is ridiculous.
We will wait and see.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
Does the Taoiseach have a view?
I have plenty of views which I put on the record of the House two weeks ago.
How about the Deputy's best friend?
He did not stand as a Fine Gael candidate.
My views about tax evaders were placed on the record of the House two weeks ago. Let us wait until the report is concluded.
The Taoiseach's views on this matter are not on the record. Does the Taoiseach believe it would be right for his party, in view of its standards, for someone who is an admitted and undischarged tax evader to be put forward as a standard bearer for Fianna Fáil in an election? Does the Taoiseach believe this is right or wrong? It is a simple question.
It is not relevant to the question. My views on this issue are on the record of the House. Unlike Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil has a code of practice which states what the party thinks of tax evaders and we will stick by our rules.
I cannot recall whether the Taoiseach said Deputy Foley is included in the group of Independent Deputies for which special provision is made in terms of their servicing requirements in the House. I wish to ask the Taoiseach about equality of treatment for Members in general. Are there other non-office holding Members who have such a special arrangement made for them? If a senior civil servant is appointed to mind Independent Deputies, then surely it can be argued that such an appointment is required by other groups of Deputies.
Deputy Foley is not included in that group and there is not a particular arrangement with him whatsoever other than what I stated in the reply. He does not attend any of the meetings with the Government Whip, but he has only departed from the parliamentary party in recent weeks. In a democracy it is unreasonable for a party or people who are not members of the Government parties but who support it to seek meetings with the Government to find out what they are supporting. It is normal for the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party to discuss legislation at a meeting on Wednesdays. The Progressive Democrats also meets on Wednesday. If the Government expects support from other Deputies, then those Deputies are entitled to be briefed and to know what they are voting on, and this is what happens.
Is the Taoiseach saying that job cannot be performed adequately by the Government Whip in whom he has such confidence? If a group because of its independent status requires that kind of back-up, what is the implication of Deputy Foley not being included in it? Is he not an Independent after all? Does he still have a special arrangement with Fianna Fáil?
There is not much point in me replying if the Deputy does not listen. I said that there was no particular arrangement and Deputy Foley does not attend the meetings of Independent Members. It is a matter for him whether he seeks that facility in due course. He said that he is supporting the Government, but he has no particular arrangement and does not attend those meetings. I also said that the official from my office assists the Government Chief Whip in his functions. The Deputy will recall, when he was a member of another party in the House, that it demanded quite special arrangements when it only had a group of six. I do not think it is unreasonable for a group of four which supports the Government to also seek briefings.
If Deputy Foley is not availing of the special arrangements for Independent Members, is it the case that he is able to avail of the special arrangements available to Government Members in regard to representations on Government business?
I assume Deputy Foley is doing what every Member of the House is doing, keeping in touch with Departments. Any Member of the Government or Opposition can do so.
Is it not the case that arrangements are available to Members on the Government side in regard to business?
There are no great, special arrangements. It is not unusual for members of the Opposition to make requests of Ministers or me on individual issues. That courtesy has been available as long as I have been in the House, whether one is in government or opposition, and I hope it continues.
If, therefore, Deputy Foley is not treated as an Independent Member, is it not the case that he is, in effect, still a Fianna Fáil Member and that his resignation of the whip simply means that he does not have to turn up at particular meetings on Wednesday mornings, which probably enables him to do more constituency work? He has suffered nothing.
That might be the way it operates in the Deputy's party, that is his business.
It is small enough.
I am asking about the Taoiseach's party.
That is not how our political party operates. People feel very privileged and honoured and wish to be members of the parliamentary party. Everybody in our organisation who runs for election wants to be a member of the parliamentary party. We consider losing the party whip to be a severe penalty. That is the way it always has been and will continue to be.
It is possible to draw inferences from what the Taoiseach has said. Does he consider that, logically, conclusions may be drawn from the fact that Independent Members, with no disrespect to them, who pay little interest to the legislative programme and so on other than as it becomes controversial, require specialist back-up? Virtually no specialist provision is made for Opposition parties, yet they are required to scrutinise legislation. Does the Taoiseach think a reasonable argument can be made that it is time to examine this?
We could get carried away with specialist treatment. It consists of one meeting a week lasting approximately one hour where people can follow something up or be made aware of something.
It consists of a senior civil servant walking around town with a mobile telephone in his pocket in case he receives a telephone call about headage payments in the hills of Kerry to which he gives a reply immediately.
Now he must also give replies for the plains of Kerry.
Indeed, he must deal with north and south Kerry.
Deputy Rabbitte asked about legislation but is now talking about constituency issues.
Did the Taoiseach hear any of the Independent Members in the House over the past two and a half years contributing to legislation?
How does the Deputy know that they are not listening to the monitors in their offices?
I have no idea what they might be listening to. They could also listen to 98FM.
The Deputy is so supercilious.
Independent Members play their role. Last week I was accused by the Sinn Féin Member of not acknowledging people's mandates in the House. If one expects people to support the Government, it is not unreasonable for people to be briefed and to have some contact. That is what happens and it is entirely appropriate.
