Vol. 519 No. 2
59 Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if she has had meetings with the CIE trade union group in relation to the proposals in the document, A New Institutional Framework for Public Transport; the outcome in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [13417/00]
I have sent the document, A New Institutional Framework for Public Transport, to the CIE trade unions and they will receive a second document this evening, as will Members of the House when it has been brought to the Cabinet sub-committee.
A public transport forum will be established shortly under the terms of the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. It will have representatives from all the partnership pillars, including the trade unions. I will ask the forum, as one of its priority tasks, to consider the proposals in the framework document and in the document that the unions will receive this evening.
Under the conditions of the proposal in the framework for public transport, will the Minister confirm to the House that it is her intention to abolish CIE, the umbrella group? That question was asked earlier, but I did not hear the answer because it was not given clearly. Is it the Minister's intention to abolish CIE and retain separate boards for each of the remaining companies, Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann?
I am genuinely sorry if I did not speak clearly. That is the first time I have been accused of not doing so. I am sorry if the Deputy did not hear me.
The Minister is a king at doing that.
She is a past master at it.
She is a past master at obfuscation—
Deputy Stagg, we need order at Question Time.
She is an expert at doing that.
She embroiders everything so that nothing can be understood.
All she need do is ask anybody dealing with transport proposals. The only person who is better at doing that than the Minister is the Taoiseach.
After three years of listening to her, I know nothing about her policies.
Deputy Yates, please allow the Minister to reply.
I know the Deputy's and it is not up to much.
It would be best if the Minister addressed her remarks through the Chair.
I will repeat the reply I gave on this. Deputy Stagg said he did not hear me clearly. I have never been accused of not being heard. In April I submitted a paper to the Cabi net committee on infrastructural development on public private partnerships. The Deputy asked if the CIE holding company should cease to have an operational role and should no longer own the bus and rail companies. I replied that I was considering whether its dissolution would be appropriate. I stated that the future administrative arrangements for pensions would also have to be considered, as the current pension schemes apply CIE-wide. I said that I would also take into account the position of employees under the Transport Act, 1986, which provides for the transfer back to CIE of subsidiary company employees where a subsidiary is wound up.
The Minister stated that she does not intend to privatise any part of CIE but she hopes to introduce competition. In what form does she intend to do that? Rather than the matter being considered at a future date, when will decisions be made on this?
Perhaps Deputy Stagg did not get it, but I sent him a document on this matter
I have it here.
I will forward him a more final document this evening.
The Minister floods us with documents when it is action we want.
Good, I flood Members with documents. That was also the nature of a complaint made by Deputy Yates.
They contradict one another.
Perhaps I should not send Members any more documents, but that document is on its way to Members.
It is action we want.
What question did the Deputy ask me?
In what form does the Minister intend to introduce the competition she promised?
I will put forward a proposal that we use the 1932 Act to give licences to routes not currently operated by Bus Átha Cliath and that legislation be introduced to establish a shadow regulatory authority.
When is it expected it will be established?
Next year. I gave this information in reply to a question from Deputy Yates.
The Minister's party will be out of office by then and nothing will happen.
The Deputy told me in this House to leave the 1932 Act alone and not to move on anything to do with it.
That is the last time I will tell the Minister anything.
A shadow regulatory authority would give franchises to the operators.
The Minister could introduce competition without dismembering CIE. Is this proposal a knee-jerk reaction to the recent strike in Dublin Bus and the resignation of the former chairman of CIE? Fine Gael recently published its proposals for bus competition. Has the Minister's Department considered the system operating in Copenhagen, which has one of the best transport systems of any European city? Is she open to supporting the introduction here of such a system of competition and tendering, which includes seven year licences and the provision of ample subsidies?
Cities in Finland and Denmark were visited and the systems there were considered and reviewed. Their systems have much to commend them in terms of the introduction of competition, as does the system operating in London, although not the systems operating in the UK generally.
