Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 13 Feb 2001

Vol. 530 No. 3

Revised Estimates for Public Services, 2001. - Vote 44 – Flood Relief (Revised).

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. Cullen)

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £2,251,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31 December 2001 for the payment of certain exceptional grants and for the recoupment of certain expenditure in connection with flood relief.

I am glad to introduce the 2001 Estimate for Vote 44, flood relief. The total requirement for Vote 44 for the year 2001 is £2.251 million. The main element of the Vote is the provision of £2 million in the form of humanitarian aid to the victims of the severe flooding which occurred throughout the country over the period from 5 to 7 November 2000.

Deputies will recall that the Government acted quickly to deal with this situation and decided on 14 November to put in place a scheme of humanitarian assistance to be administered by the Irish Red Cross Society. Under the Government decision, the Irish Red Cross was to assess the number of applicants and notify the Office of Public Works of the likely total cost of claims. On this basis, the Minister for Finance would then decide on the overall package to be made available. Six criteria formed the basis for applications and assessment under the scheme. They were death, serious injury, homelessness, damage to home, loss of income and/or extreme hardship. The criteria used by the society in determining eligibility for assistance was similar to previous schemes. We are talking about humanitarian assistance to relieve hardship and not compensation for losses.

Like the Government's quick reaction to the plight of the flood affected victims the Irish Red Cross Society was not less diligent in its rapid response to the situation which faced it. It immediately initiated an extensive advertising campaign in the national daily newspapers towards the end of November inviting applications from those who suffered severe hardship as a result of the flooding. It acted quickly to set up a special freephone telephone line and a website to help people to get help and information about the humanitarian aid scheme. This multi-media approach proved to be very successful in that almost 800 inquiries were made to the freephone number and over 200 hits were logged on the website.

A special task force, consisting of both assessment and administrative personnel, was set up by the Red Cross to operate the humanitarian aid scheme in order to get aid to those in need as speedily as possible. All applications received were dealt with on a strictly confidential basis in accordance with the Red Cross fundamental principle of impartiality and its experience in disaster relief both nationally and internationally and each claim was processed and assessed individually.

The Irish Red Cross has now completed its detailed assessment of the over 400 applications received from 17 counties, across all four provinces, although predominantly from the southern, south-eastern and eastern regions, and has advised the Office of Public Works that the total estimate required for the scheme is £2.75 million. A sum of £1 million was provided to the Irish Red Cross by way of Supplementary Estimate in December 2000, thus leaving a balance of £1.75 million to be met. As I also propose to provide a contingency amount of £0.25 million to meet late claims, the total requirement for humanitarian aid in 2001 is £2 million.

I take this opportunity to express my personal appreciation to the Irish Red Cross Society and also to thank the society on the Government's behalf for taking on this onerous task. I also commend the society on its professionalism and speed in dealing with a very difficult situation. The organisation has successfully undertaken this major domestic humanitarian project in less than two months from receipt of applications from flood victims, while continuing to maintain its other services and run two major emergency appeals for India and El Salvador during this period.

Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted and 20 Members being present,

Mr. Cullen

The second element of Vote 44 is the home relocation scheme which was set up as a once-off measure in 1995 to provide humanitarian aid for the victims of flooding throughout the country during that year. The Government provided a total of £830,000 to enable people and families whose houses had been damaged beyond the reasonable costs of repair or whose houses suffered long-term flooding to be assisted in relocating their homes. The fund is being disbursed by the Office of Public Works. As a number of cases remain to be finalised, a provision of £250,000 is sought in 2001. A sum of £250,000 was also provided in Vote 44 for 2000 in respect of certain victims of flooding in Limerick at Christmas-New Year 1999.

The Government is satisfied that the circumstances in Limerick were exceptional and were directly related to the public works associated with the main drainage scheme. They do not, therefore, set a precedent for State intervention in other circumstances in which private property is flooded as a result of rivers bursting their banks. This scheme is also administered by the Irish Red Cross Society. The society completed its assessment of 45 claims for financial assistance in late 2000 and recommended payment, totalling £239,500, in 44 cases. Administration costs accounted for the balance of the expenditure of £250,000 in 2000. A token sum of £1,000 is being provided in 2001 in order to keep the subhead open in the event of late claims arising.

While Deputies will be aware that the Office of Public Works is carrying out an ongoing programme of flood relief schemes in various parts of the country which are subject to periodic temporary flooding, it also occasionally co-operates with and provides support to local authorities in the preparation of flood alleviation proposals by the councils within their jurisdictional areas. To date, schemes have been completed at Lacken-Ardrahan, County Galway; Sixmilebridge, County Clare; Duleek, County Meath; Gort, County Galway; Cappamore, County Limerick; Newport, County Tipperary; Belclare, Tuam, County Galway; Maam Valley, County Galway; and Bridgend, County Donegal.

Schemes due for completion in 2001 include Dunmanway, County Cork; Freemount, County Cork; Drumcollogher, County Limerick; Belhavel, County Limerick; and Scotch Quay, Waterford. Site works are due to commence during 2001 at Kilkenny city; Carrick-on-Suir, County Tipperary; and Hazelhatch, County Kildare. Schemes expected to reach public exhibition stage during 2001 include Carlow town; Clonmel, County Tipperary; John's River, Waterford city; and Cregclare in south Galway. A report into the study of flooding in Ennis, County Clare, co-funded by the Office of Public Works, which was recently submitted by Clare County Council is also being considered.

In addition to this ongoing programme of flood relief schemes, I wish to advise the House of the other specific steps I have taken following the severe flooding last November. In my capacity as chairman of the interdepartmental committee to monitor the effects of bad weather, I reconvened the committee which held a meeting on 24 January 2001 at which representatives from relevant Government Departments and agencies were in attendance.

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, Standing Order No. 20 clearly states that if the quorum bells ring for more than three minutes, the House should be suspended.

An Ceann Comhairle

The House was suspended. When a Member calls a quorum and a quorum is not present, the sitting must immediately suspend.

Mr. Stagg

The quorum bells rang for more than three minutes but the House was not suspended due to the absence of a quorum during that time.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand the Standing Order does not specify an upper time limit.

Mr. Stagg

It states that three minutes is the maximum time but the bells rang for more than three minutes. The sitting should, therefore, have been suspended by the Ceann Comhairle as a quorum had not assembled.

An Ceann Comhairle

A quorum assembled close to that time.

Mr. Stagg

I do not wish to argue with the Ceann Comhairle but the quorum assembled well in excess of three minutes. The sitting should now be suspended.

An Ceann Comhairle

The House is in session. A maximum time is not specified. Standing Order No. 20 refers to a period of not less than three minutes.

Mr. Stagg

My reading of the Standing Order is that if a quorum is not present after three minutes, the sitting should be suspended.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Standing Order refers to a period not less than three minutes so the bells could conceivably ring for twice that time.

Mr. Stagg

I call a quorum now as there are not 20 Members present.

Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted and 20 Members being present,

Mr. Cullen

Some very useful discussions took place and further liaison was arranged on the following topics: national and non-national roads; main drainage and sewerage schemes; building on flood plains; industrial and commercial development; gathering of information during and following flood events; and flood risk mapping. I can see great potential in the area of flood risk mapping.

I am aware in my capacity as Minister of State that the Office of Public Works as a drainage authority is constantly receiving reports from various sources about a variety of locations around the country which suffer localised flooding problems, with requests for flood relief schemes to alleviate those problems. Little, if any, distinction is made between the sources-causes of this flooding, be it river, road, sewage surcharge or tidal.

While the Office of Public Works has a regionalised network of engineering offices throughout the country and is quite familiar with many flood prone areas, it does not have the resources to have a detailed knowledge of every flooding problem in the entire country. Under the aegis of the interdepartmental committee, it is intended that the Office of Public Works will begin a process of flood event mapping, which will involve as a first step the gathering of information relating to recorded instances of flooding – historical flooding data. For this purpose, it is envisaged that the involvement of local authorities, which are most familiar with flooding within each of their own jurisdictional areas, will be required. It is intended to circulate all local authorities and to request historical data about the extent and frequency of flooding in their areas with a view to compiling this information in a uniform way and publishing it.

The second and more complex element will involve the flood risk mapping of the country. This is a more technical and specialist exercise requiring a multi-disciplinary approach which, while intended to introduce initially on a limited selected pilot basis, will ultimately provide a database of areas at risk from flooding.

These documents will prove invaluable to local authorities when they are making planning decisions. It is essential for all future planning decisions, be they for residential or commercial developments, that local authorities take into account areas known to be at risk from flooding.

In relation to a number of towns and areas which were particularly badly affected by the flooding last November, my officials and I have been actively engaged in discussions with the relevant local authorities and interested parties. In the cases of Fermoy and Mallow, County Cork, and Enniscorthy, County Wexford, technical liaison committees have been established to investigate the causes of flooding with a view to developing flood alleviation proposals for these towns.

In the cases of Arklow, County Wicklow, Lucan, County Dublin, and Dunboyne, County Meath, the Office of Public Works has been in contact with the respective local authorities in question and is prepared to provide whatever support is requested by the local authority in carrying out its responsibilities to relieve flooding in these areas.

I thank Deputies for their attention. I shall be pleased to hear their views and will do my best to answer any questions they may raise.

Mr. U. Burke

I wish to share my time with Deputy Timmins.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has ten minutes overall.

Mr. U. Burke

I welcome the fact that at last provision is being made for payment to be made to the people who suffered loss as a result of the flooding late last year. Many people were beginning to have doubts as to when these funds were to be made available. Despite the fact that this funding was advertised extensively, many people who would have been entitled to it under the criteria set down did not apply. I have spoken to some of those people and the reasons given for not applying were that it would have been too complicated and too cumbersome and it would probably be years before it was paid.

I welcome the fact that the Red Cross took the initiative and processed the applications made to it. The Minister of State indicated that 400 applications were received. I have absolute confidence in the confidentiality the Red Cross has given those applications. The criteria laid down include death, serious injury, homelessness, damage to homes, loss of income and extreme hardship, but many people who suffered extreme hardship have not applied for this funding for the reasons I outlined. That is a pity because this scheme has been quickly processed thanks to the Red Cross.

The Minister of State talked about loss of income but that ignores the fact that many in the farming community, outside the built up areas, have suffered severe loss and because of the useless schemes initiated through the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, such as the fodder scheme, which was farcical, many people did not apply for funding in this instance.

The £2.75 million will be welcomed by those who have access to it and it might give them some relief. However, it is totally inadequate as an overall response not only in terms of the damage to property but also in terms of the loss of income, particularly in southern areas.

The relocation scheme is totally inadequate. I have outlined the reasons for this to the Minister on numerous occasions. People in south Galway applied for relocation under the localised scheme but they still have not been relocated despite the obvious damage to their property. Under the Department's scheme people could apply for relocation and compensation. The Minister listed a number of scheme and the timescales. If these schemes have the same timescale as the one with which I am most familiar in south Galway, it will not matter to anyone in the House when the work is done.

Mr. Cullen

That is grossly unfair to the hard-working people involved. As usual, the Deputy is talking through his hat.

Mr. U. Burke

If it were not for the initiative of Deputy McCormack during the lifetime of the last Government, who pledged his financial support for the scheme which the Office of Public Works was reluctant to undertake under any circumstances – it put the cost at £2.5 million but it was carried out for less than £200,000—

Mr. Cullen

On a point of order, in fairness to all concerned, I ask the Deputy to withdraw his remark that a Department acted on foot of blackmail by a Deputy who suggested that he would fund a project if it did not. It is an outrageous remark and it unbecomes the Deputy.

Mr. U. Burke

Will the Minister repeat his point?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. The Minister will have an opportunity to reply if there is adequate time.

Mr. U. Burke

That is what happened and the effectiveness of the scheme carried out without the initial sanction of the Office of Public Works was well received and was a success. However, the benefits have never been assessed. I do not care whether the Minister accepts my point. The reality is that the local people regard it as a success. Despite all the reports in other areas of south Galway, not even one shovelful has been taken out of any riverbed to alleviate the flooding. The Peach report was ongoing for two years, yet it was totally inadequate. There are further reports, impact studies, cost benefit analysis etc.

Mr. Cullen

It is called the law. We have laws which we are obliged to work under. The Deputy is supposed to be a legislator.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Burke, without interruption.

Mr. U. Burke

The £2.75 million provided in the current year is totally inadequate and I want the Minister to give an assurance that he will undertake a full and comprehensive study of the area and introduce amending legislation to allow for adequate drainage.

Mr. Timmins

I welcome the allocation of funding. I will endeavour to be as constructive as possible in my remarks.

There have been 400 applications following the advertising campaign. However, many of the applications from people in County Wicklow and the part of County Carlow I represent were only made because the public representatives gave people the application form and told them to apply. Many of the people who were hardest hit do not necessarily read the national newspapers. I do not know whether the Red Cross was the most suitable organisation to administer the funding, but in terms of being proactive maybe the health board or local authority should have been involved in identifying the people. I gave forms to many people who did not know about the advertising campaign. This is an aspect which should be looked at in the future.

I welcome the flood relief schemes. There are many such schemes in operation. The flood event mapping is important from the point of view of planning. The Minister referred to Arklow, County Wicklow, and said that the Department had been in contact with representatives from local authorities and was prepared to provide whatever support they require. Arklow was severely hit during the flooding and I would like to know what the Minister means by this statement. Does it mean the Department will provide funding for the employment of consultants to draw up a report and address the problems when the report is finalised? Other areas have been excluded, for example, Baltinglass. Rathvilly and Tullow and other areas along the Slaney basin. These areas were severely affected by the flooding and I would appreciate if the Minister would look favourably on applications from Wicklow County Council for these areas. It is important that the problem is addressed so that people do not have to look for relief every year after Christmas. It may mean that some people have to be relocated or rehoused as there are certain flashpoints that suffer severe difficulty every year.

I ask the Minister to clarify the concept of the allocation of funding for schemes and consultants' reports. Did any of the people who had insurance apply for funding and, if so, did they receive payment? Some people who claimed compensation under their insurance cover may not be eligible for insurance in the future.

Mr. S. Ryan

I am pleased to contribute to this debate on the important issue of flood relief. It is important to acknowledge that rainfall levels during October, November and December were much greater on the east coast than the average. Exceptional rainfall levels were recorded for 5-7 November and 7-8 December 2000. For example, on Thursday, 2 November rainfall was 23.6mm, while on 5 November it was 41.2mm and on 6 November, 32.6mm. During the 24 hour period 7-8 December 44mm of rain fell on the east coast. These figures were recorded at Dublin Airport.

Despite these exceptionally high levels of rainfall, it is totally unacceptable that major flooding occurred and that the national infrastructure, roads and, in certain instances, railways, business and commerce, came to a standstill. The national primary roads were put out of commission and trains were held up due to flooding on the tracks. During an era of modern technology this national shutdown is intolerable and totally unacceptable and must be addressed.

There was major flooding in Fingal which has approximately 1,000 kilometres of primary, secondary and minor roads. For example, the N1, the main link between Dublin and the North, was flooded at Blakes Cross, Turvey and Lissenhall and was impassable. The N2 at Coolquay was also impassable for a period. In this instance a number of houses were flooded. I have been reliably informed by the residents who were literally sandbagged into their houses for three days that no one could remember similar flooding in living memory. We must look at whether there are factors which are causing this problem. The N3 was flooded opposite the Blanchardstown Centre, while the old airport road and various properties in the vicinity were flooded. In Kinsealy property was flooded downstream of Kinsealy Church.

Apart from the national primary routes, more than ten regional and minor roads were flooded, which caused them to be impassable. People in some villages and towns, such as Portmarnock, Swords, Ballyboughal, St. Margaret's, Ballealy, Lusk and other parts of north Dublin, were stranded and could not get to work.

Mr. U. Burke

I do not see Kinsealy listed as a project.

Mr. S. Ryan

The money is not coming yet. Major problems were also recorded at our various treatment plants. Swords sewage treatment plant, which was well in excess of its capacity, could not cope with the full flow. Extensive sewer surcharge, including flooding, affected 15 properties in the area. I witnessed the aftermath of the flooding where raw sewage was strewn across front and rear gardens. That happened across the constituency. It also happened in the case of Portrane waste treatment plant and Ballyboughal waste treatment plant. All that and more occurred during this period of our Celtic tiger economy.

What has happened is nothing short of a scandal. We must ask what can we do about it. I welcome this Revised Estimate of £2.75 million and appreciate the role that will be played by the Irish Red Cross Society. I do not envisage that the money that will be provided will deal with this problem. We will have to reconsider the problem and then provide the necessary finances, as substantial financial resources will have to be made available to local authorities to deal with it. I thought the Minister of State's Department would wash its hands of this problem, but the Department of the Environment and Local Government will also have a role in identifying this problem.

During the earlier severe weather conditions, I spoke in the House and issued a press release to the effect that the emergency plan for the greater Dublin area should have been initiated a little sooner, at least 24 to 36 hours earlier. That matter should be examined.

Snow, frost and flooding have seriously undermined our road network, particularly our regional and minor roads. Before our road network in various parts of the country collapses again – it is not so long ago since we experienced a major problem throughout the length and breadth of the country – in the context of the flooding—

Mr. Cullen

If I may intervene on a point of order, it is important that, if possible, we agree this Revised Estimate by 7 p.m. so that funds can be given to the Red Cross. If this Revised Estimate is not agreed tonight, we will lose out by one week on the payment of moneys, and many people are depending on moneys being paid this week. The Deputy may not have been aware of that.

Mr. S. Ryan

We must address the state of our roads throughout the country, particularly in the aftermath of the flooding, snow and frost. To do that, extra finance will be required from the Department of the Environment and Local Government. I will finish on that note to expedite the passing of this Revised Estimate.

Mr. Naughten

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Revised Estimate as I want to raise a specific issue with the Minister of State on the provision of compensation for flood relief. The compensation under this scheme relates to the period 5 to 7 November 2000 when flooding took place. The criteria for the payment of compensation set down by the Department and the Red Cross was death, serious injury, homelessness, damage to the home, loss of income and-or extreme hardship. The case I put to the Minister of State involves four of those six specific issues, homelessness, damage to the home, loss of income and extreme hardship. I am disappointed he failed to provide a sum of money for one particular family who suffered the effect of serious flooding during the flooding of the Shannon basin in the winter of 1999-2000.

The provision in this Revised Estimate is for humanitarian assistance to relieve hardship and not particularly to provide compensation for losses. That family was the only family whose home was flooded on Christmas morning, yet the Taoiseach, the Minister of State's office and the Ombudsman have ignored their pleas. It has cost that family £45,000 to repair the damage to their home, which they had to leave for three months. Their daughter had to postpone her wedding and other family members had to take out credit union loans to help pay the builder for the repair work to their home. The Department, in its response to the Ombudsman, did not consider their case to be one of humanitarian assistance. That is a gross underestimation of the situation in which the couple concerned find themselves.

Prior to the floods of 1999-2000, that couple raised the level of their site and house to above the record level of the flooding in 1954, the highest level recorded in the Shannon basin in or around Athlone. Subsequent to the flooding of 1999-2000, that couple again raised the floor of their home by six inches, but they cannot afford to raise the level of the site, although they intend to raise it if they can get the necessary resources to do so.

I am extremely disappointed the Government ignored requests by a small number of families and one in particular in the Shannon basin for the provision of compensation for flood relief. In 1995 when less severe flooding occurred compensation was provided. In 1996, a similar situation arose and compensation was provided. It is a gross blight on the Government that compensation was not provided in 2000.

When replying, I hope the Minister of State will deal with the issue of flooding on the M4 and N4, which occurred three times during the past 12 months, and address the need for the provision of moneys to raise roads in the Shannon basin so that people can get in and out of their homes.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Deenihan, there are only 30 seconds remaining.

Mr. Cullen

I would like to conclude the debate so that the moneys can be paid out in the morning, otherwise it will not be possible for me to resume the debate on this matter this week.

Mr. Deenihan

I would like to facilitate the Minister of State, but I was asked to continue this debate.

Mr. Cullen

There is not disagreement on the Revised Estimate. If it is not agreed now, that will delay the payment of the moneys involved. I will not be able to bring this matter before the House again this week. It is a signed off scheme and I do not believe any Member opposes it.

Mr. Deenihan

When can this debate be resumed?

Mr. Cullen

Maybe next week. The Red Cross is trying to pay out the moneys involved and we are trying to allocate funds to it. That is why the Deputy's Party Whip agreed not to put this into committee so that it could be brought to the Dáil and put through this evening. That was the agreement.

Mr. Deenihan

In view of that, can it be put through?

Vote put and agreed to.