I wish to share my time with Deputies Enright, Deenihan and Durkan.
Private Members' Business. - Garda Reform: Motion (Resumed).
The following motion was moved by Deputy Howlin on Tuesday, 10 April 2001:
That Dáil Éireann:
–recognising the escalating impact of crime on our citizens and recognising, in particular, the continuing and unacceptably high level of murder, gangland shootings, intimidation, drug dealing, joy-riding and public disorder afflicting both urban and rural communities;
–believing that crime is demoralising people, terrifying our elderly and destroying the lives of many young people and that to tackle crime we need an efficient and effective police force operating in and with the full confidence, support and co-operation of the population it serves;
–acknowledging that the Garda Síochána has served us well since the foundation of the State, that its bravery, particularly in standing up to the threat posed by the IRA and other paramilitaries, must never be forgotten but believing that, like every other organisation, the Garda has to change and evolve, in accordance with principles of accountability and modernisation;
–aware that at present the Garda operates under legislation dating back to 1925 and that since society and the demands of pol icing, have changed radically in the past 75 years, it is therefore time the law governing the Garda changed as well;
–affirming that an essential part of that change is the forging of a new relationship between the Garda Síochána and the communities it serves so that those communities are involved in deciding policing priorities in consultation and real partnership with the Garda;
–convinced that policing works best when it is based on partnership between local people and the local gardaí and aiming therefore to give ownership of our policing strategy back to the community;
–conscious of the danger that, in the absence of such close liaison, paramilitaries and vigilantes are in a position to organise in recognition of the unmet need of local communities and to take the law into their own hands;
–noting also the need for a new system for investigating complaints levelled against the Garda;
–bearing in mind the comprehensive package of recommendations proposed by the Patten Commission on Policing in Northern Ireland, many of which are of direct relevance and applicability in this jurisdiction;
condemns the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform for his inaction in the area of systematic reform of policing, both at legislative and administrative level; calls upon the Minister to introduce a legislative package of reform, including at least the following three elements so as radically to reform policing in Ireland–
(a) the establishment of a new Garda Authority, to set the priorities for fighting crime at national level, to make the key decisions relating to policing more open and accountable, to be responsible for senior appointments in the Garda Síochána and to receive and consider reports from the Garda Commissioner on operational decisions,
(b) the establishment of county policing liaison committees, to agree a county or city policing plan, with regular meetings between the committee and local gardaí to monitor progress and address the concerns of local communities, and
(c) the abolition of the Garda Complaints Board, the role and functioning of which is widely agreed to be unsatisfactory, and its replacement with a Garda Ombudsman to be responsible for investigating complaints against the Garda, such an officer to be provided with his own staff and to be responsible for a new, independent system for ensuring Garda accountability; and
calls also for a significant increase in Garda resources and personnel so as adequately to equip the force to meet the challenges which it faces.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
"–welcomes the substantial decrease in serious crime of the order of 25% since the Government took office and the role which the Garda Síochána has played in bringing this about;
–notes the unprecedented level of resources which have been made available to the Garda Síochána including the increase of £226 million, 48%, in the Garda Vote from £472 million in 1997 to £698 million in the current year; by the end of this year the strength of the Garda Síochána will be close to 11,800, which represents an increase of approximately 1,000 gardaí since the Government took office and is well on target to reach the planned strength of 12,000 by 2002;
–acknowledges that for the first time, the Garda Síochána has the resources and equipment to enable it to police not only the streets of this country but also our waterways and airspace;
–endorses the measures that have been adopted on the basis of the additional funding in the sum of £87 million allocated under the national development plan for crime prevention directed towards young offenders; in that context youth diversion projects have already been successfully established and others are on the way;
–welcomes the expansion of the Garda CCTV programme for which £12 million has been allocated over the next three years – with £4 million allocated in 2001;
–recognises the provision of substantial additional resources to other areas of the criminal justice system to underpin the work of the Garda Síochána including increasing the number of prison places by 1,207 to date, with approximately 700 additional closed places on the way;
–acknowledges the significant structural reforms being made to the criminal justice system through, for example, the appointment of additional judges, the establishment of the Courts Service and the Prisons Service and the signifi cant progress which is being made in reforming the administration of the Garda Síochána particularly through the strategic management initiative;
–notes the important steps that have been taken in relation to dealing effectively with crime through the establishment of the national crime forum and the national crime council;
–supports the measures that have been put in place and the results that have been achieved in connection with the establishment of the witness protection programme;
–acknowledges the successful operations undertaken by the Criminal Assets Bureau and the excellent results it has secured;
–approves of the intention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to bring forward at an early date considered proposals to improve arrangements for the making of complaints against the Garda Síochána
–recognises the underpinning of the work of the Garda Síochána through the Government's unprecedented and comprehensive programme of criminal law reform;
–acknowledges that the Garda Síochána has served the country well since the foundation of the State particularly in dealing with threats to the State;
–welcomes the high level of support among the community for the Garda Síochána and
–approves the Government's continuing commitment to give priority to resource structural and legislative measures to build on the significant advances which have been made in the fight against crime.
–(Minister for Justice, Equality and
Law Reform).
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Last night in his speech the Minister referred to the increased strength of the Garda Síochána and said he hoped it would have increased to 12,000 by 2002. I do not know where the Minister is putting these people because every community of which I am aware is crying out for extra and replacement gardaí. Will the Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation relay the message to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that he should prioritise the areas undergoing radical development? I am talking about the greater Dublin area and places in north Wicklow, such as Blessington, Kilcoole and Newtownmountkennedy, which should be catered for in the allotment of additional gardaí.
He speaks about bringing in the CCTV system. This has been announced by the Minister on several occasions, but it is still not operable. Last weekend in Bray, the tyres of 25 to 30 cars were slashed on the Florence and Galtrim roads. If this system, announced more than two years ago, had been in place, these incidents might not have occurred. The Minister has been in office almost four years; it is important that he expedites this.
Some of my colleagues and Deputy Rabbitte mentioned the shortage of gardaí in the Tallaght area. This is causing grave difficulties for us in Wicklow and Carlow where gangs leave Tallaght at all hours of the morning and come down to rob commercial premises on a repeat basis. Some shop owners have had their premises robbed twice in the one week by the same group and nothing seems to happen. They despair that this Government is doing anything to assist them.
It is appropriate that the Minister of State, Deputy Ryan, is here now. Any young person that I come across can tell me where drugs are available. The Minister will say there is an onus on us to report this information to the Garda. I do not know what efforts the Garda are making to apprehend the individuals that are supplying drugs. There are many night clubs not too far from here that are assisting in and perhaps even promoting the use of illegal drugs.
Can the Deputy name them?
I hope that in his response, the Minister can outline the measures he has taken to address that.
I strongly support the spirit of Deputy Howlin's motion. I have some problems with some parts and I will outline these in my comments. There is a serious problem with crime. Even if the Minister wants to delude himself, crime is rampant especially weekend violence in our towns. Tullamore, Clara, Portlaoise, Birr, Kilcormac, Portarlington and Edenderry are different towns across my constituency that suffer from this. The people in Laoighis-Offaly are generally law abiding. Policing is not being provided at an adequate level to help to combat the violence at weekends. I am reasonably fit and in good health but on occasions I am nervous walking the streets of these towns at night. That should not happen. Garda overtime needs to be increased at weekends and there needs to be sufficient manpower. We need groups of gardaí that are mobile and able to move from one area to another.
The difference between the Patten report recommendations and policing here is that our police force is unarmed and the gardaí are members of the community and represent of all sections of it. I would not like to see the Garda Síochána working under a local authority or having elected political representatives or other local organisations directing day to day administration of policing.
That is not what we are proposing.
I would like to hear more detail about the establishment of county policing liaison committees, to agree a county or city policing plan, with regular meetings between the committee and local gardaí.
I have had many dealings with the Garda Complaints Board and I find it reasonably satisfactory. Where a fictitious or malicious action or claim is brought by a citizen against a member, then the garda who suffers this complaint should have some come back to defend his good name.
I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I have a sister and had an uncle in the Garda Síochána as well as many other relatives. I have nothing but the highest of respect for the force. The Garda Síochána has served us very well. As a Fine Gael person, it is a source of great pride for me that it was the founders of this party that set up the Garda Síochána. It is an exemplary unarmed force.
This motion is fairly expansive. There is room for more community involvement in the Garda Síochána especially on policy making. We could model some changes on what is being proposed for Northern Ireland. Having policing boards in the various areas could be replicated here. If there is one weakness now, it is that we, as politicians, are not involved in policing policy. We are involved in health, local authorities and education but not in policing and I would see a very positive role for the community and for politicians to get involved with the policing boards that are envisaged in the Labour Party motion.
It is important that the integrity of the Garda is at all times protected. Recently in my constituency, another political party carried out investigations into various crimes, mostly burglaries. This is totally unacceptable in any democracy. We must not allow the authority of the Garda Síochána to be undermined. I ask the Minister to tell us if the report, which he sought, is now ready.
I support the principle of the motion. I thank the Labour Party for giving us the opportunity to focus on this issue now. We need a debate on the changes to meet the requirements that are forced on both the public and the Garda Síochána.
The drugs problem developed as a result of the inability of the Garda Síochána to deal with it. Things got out of hand and control, in many cases, was taken by the vigilantes who were seen to be able to respond more dramatically and effectively. We need to be careful of this because it is something that threatens the whole concept of our democracy.
There has been an increase in street violence and incidents occur with alarming regularity. There is great concern among parents who sit at home at night wondering whether their teenage children are safe. This is something that affects our entire society. What is most alarming is the number of fatalities arising from these incidents. Something has to be done as a matter of extreme urgency to deal with this before it gets completely out of hand.
Those issues affect everybody in the country and I ask, in support of the motion, that something be done about it.
I wish to share my time with Deputies Ryan, O'Flynn, Power, Kitt and P. Carey.
I thank Deputy Howlin for bringing this motion before the House. It provides a great opportunity for the Fianna Fáil Party, in particular, and the Government to congratulate the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, on the many advances he has made since taking office in 1997. He has increased the strength of the Garda from 10,800 to 11,800, a figure that will shortly rise to 12,000, and 2,000 extra prison spaces are now on stream. The CCTV schemes evident throughout Dublin are having a very valuable effect on reducing crime in and around our main thoroughfares in the Temple Bar area, James's Street and Dublin south central in general.
I am delighted the Minister is giving consideration to allowing smaller schemes of CCTV to operate in areas experiencing social problems. Grant assistance will be given to people in such areas who may not be able to afford such a system. These communities, working in conjunction with the local authorities will have in place systems which operate so well in other parts of the city.
I congratulate the community gardaí working in areas such as Rialto, Dolphin's Barn, Fatima Mansions and St. Michael's Estate where drugs problems were prevalent not too long ago. They have become part of the community working with the people and public representatives to help address crime in these areas. Their efforts have resulted in a reduction in crime there. We must also address the problems experienced with children in the 15 to 17 year old group. The families of these children think they are the brightest and best in the world but they are out late at night throwing bottles and creating problems for others. It is a very difficult problem but we must ensure we provide whatever resources are necessary to deal with it. People living in a particular area of my constituency have had to move as a result of the mayhem created by these people.
Deputies Timmins and Shatter said yesterday that the Minister was trying to score cheap political points by referring to the Patten Commission and what is happening in Northern Ireland. I refute that allegation. Deputy Howlin validly referred to the situation in Northern Ireland and the Minister then addressed the issue. He addressed the problem raised in the motion and said he does not agree that the ombudsman system would be appropriate in the Republic. He also expressed his intention to bring forward legislation regarding a new complaints mechanism within which everyone recognises that problems exist. It was wrong of Fine Gael Deputies to politicise that very vital important element. The matter was raised and was properly addressed by the Minister.
As Minister of State with special responsibility for the national drugs strategy, I am keenly aware of the vital role which the Garda play in the formulation and delivery of this strategy, through its involvement on the national drugs strategy team and at a local level through its very active participation on the local drugs task forces which were established in the areas worst affected by the heroin problem. The establishment of the local drugs task forces, with a remit to design and oversee the implementation of a strategy to address the drug problem at a local level has been acknowledged as an important milestone in the fight against drugs, particularly heroin misuse. The great innovation with the task forces is that for the first time, the relevant statutory agencies and the community and voluntary sectors were able to work together to address the complex issues surrounding the drug problem. In this regard the Garda Siochána should be praised for the enthusiasm with which it has adopted a pro-active approach to making this partnership process work in practice.
The task force initiative has done much to strengthen and, in some cases, rebuild relations between the Garda and the local community and this has resulted in a much greater level of co-operation – the type of co-operation which is necessary in apprehending drug dealers and curbing supply. The Garda Siochána has made important strides in recent times to improve relations and communications with local communities. The term community policing has been defined as a new philosophy, based on the concept that police officers and private citizens working together can help solve contemporary community problems related to crime, fear of crime, social and physical disorder and neighbourhood decay.
The launch, last year, of the pilot community policing forum in the south inner city district was a strong indication of the commitment of the Garda to this new philosophy. The main objectives of the forum are to create dialogue between the Garda and the local community; to seek the views of the local community in relation to their concerns on crime and policing; to hold formal meetings of the community police forum to pro vide solutions to concerns raised through dialogue and action within an agreed time frame; and to provide formal feedback through meetings of the community police forum.
The forum is providing a formal mechanism to respond to issues around drug dealing through communication and transfer of information in a structured way, aimed at reducing the supply and availability of drugs. The success of the initiative depends very much on the participation of everyone working together to achieve results. Knowing the communities involved in the south-east inner city area as I do, there is never any difficulty in generating community participation in this kind of process. I look forward to this community policing forum expanding into other areas.
Initiatives such as this are vitally important as a way of encouraging local groups to play an active and constructive role in protecting their communities from drug dealing and related anti-social behaviour and in helping to promote good relations between the community and statutory agencies. Law enforcement and interdiction are crucial elements of this Government's national drugs strategy. However, this strategy, with its emphasis on local partnership and a multi-disciplinary approach, recognises that enforcement measures no matter how successful are not the sole solution. A vitally important element of the current drugs strategy are those measures aimed at preventing young people from becoming involved in drug misuse in the first instance. In this regard, the Garda should again be commended for the manner in which they have engaged with young people at risk through the 51 diversionary projects which have been established throughout the country. These projects have proven very effective in reaching out to young people who are most at risk of crime and drugs misuse and engaging them in a programme of recreational and developmental activities designed to divert them from the dangers of drugs and crime. These projects are further evidence of the willingness of gardaí to adopt a preventative approach to tackling crime and demonstrate their commitment to engaging with communities in a meaningful way.
I commend the Minister for Justice. Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, for the priority he has attached to the drug problem. This Government has committed an unprecedented level of resources to tackling this problem across all Departments and agencies, particularly the Garda Siochána and the various initiatives which they have undertaken in this area.
As an elected Member of the Oireachtas I view it as sickening that some members of the country's second largest democratic party seem intent on damaging confidence in the Garda Síochána. Deputy Jim Mitchell, the current Deputy Leader of the Fine Gael Party, has questions to answer in this regard.
Since the State police force was officially launched in 1924 it has been a source of great pride to all who served in its ranks that the political independence of the Garda has not ever been questioned. This was the case until Deputy Jim Mitchell, a former Minister for Justice, sought to blacken the name of the Garda Síochána in a perverse point scoring exercise. Deputy Mitchell's scurrilous claim that political pressure had been applied, by members of the Government, on the Garda Síochána to arrest a person prior to the Presidential election has not been withdrawn. I see it as an affront to a democracy that the deputy leader of the main opposition party has alleged that arrests made by the Garda were a measure of political convenience for the Government. I challenge him to state whether he stands over those comments.
Last year a senior Garda told The Independent that Garda operations had never been subject to political interference during the lifetime of this Government or the rainbow Government. I call on Deputy Mitchell to come to the House and apologise for the gross disservice his remarks have done to gardaí. His outrageous suggestion, that the arrests made by gardaí investigating the leaking of confidential Government material during an election campaign were politically motivated, is a dangerous slur on both the Government and senior members of the Garda Síochána.
All in public life have an obligation not to undermine the institutions of the State which they exhort the people to uphold. Deputy Jim Mitchell's slight on the political independence and integrity of the Garda Síochána runs down the forces of law and order. As far back as 1991, the president of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors felt compelled to say that comments Deputy Mitchell made about the Garda handling of a case involving the stabbing of an Englishman on O'Connell Bridge were disgraceful.
At the time of the rainbow Government, the ineptitude of Fine Gael and Labour Ministers, and their unwillingness to give the Garda the resources and power they needed, saw a situation develop where drug barons and criminal gangs could act with impunity. Rather than criticise his party's inadequate response, Deputy Mitchell chose to lay the blame at the door of hardworking members of the police force. He is on record as saying that he is puzzled by the lack of action by gardaí over recent years when complaints of drug dealing were passed on to them. He said that what was needed was some outside oversight of gardaí such as an independent body. Does this sound familiar?
In a further attempt to deflect attention from the rainbow's incompetent response to the deteriorating crime situation, Deputy Mitchell went on to call for a shake up in the way the Garda Síochána is run. AGSI president, Mr. John Durkan, said Deputy Mitchell's use of the words "lethargic" and "incestuous" in relation to the Garda were completely unacceptable and showed his contempt for the gardaí. The AGSI viewed Deputy Mitchell's remarks as so unacceptable that they called for his resignation from the Dáil. Deputy Mitchell's response was another calculated insult. He said that he would like to see outsiders from the private sector and overseas police forces appointed to the Garda. The clear implication from Deputy Mitchell was that the police force is incapable and that it was necessary to go outside the jurisdiction to bring new ideas and methods to the force.
In the lifetime of this Dáil, Deputy Mitchell's contempt for the Garda has reached a new low. Only last year he called gardaí sloppy and lacking in respect.
The history of Deputy Jim Mitchell. The Cork slur strategy.
In an outstanding display of arrogance Deputy Jim Mitchell complained that gardaí did not wish him a dignified good morning when he arrived at work.
This is irrelevant.
Deputy Mitchell then castigated gardaí for not paying enough respect to politicians. In a comment for which he should come into this Chamber to apologise, he said that the Parliament should be respected by the State services and that he did not believe it was respected by gardaí.
The Deputy should sack his speech writer
I hope Deputy Mitchell will be able to attend the House to apologise to the Garda for these gross insults. I compliment the gardaí in Cork for the tremendous—
The Deputy should thank them for not arresting him.
—reduction in crime that we have seen in Cork over the past year – a 25% reduction. I compliment Chief Superintendent Adrian Culligan, his staff and all the members of the Garda force in Cork for the introduction of the 29 CCTV cameras which are being introduced in the city.
Do not forget to thank Deputy Cooper-Flynn.
I compliment all involved in the elimination of crime on our streets.
I am glad of the opportunity to support the Government amendment and to congratulate the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, on the fine work he is doing in the Department. We can never be complacent about crime and there is not an acceptable level of crime, but the situation has improved greatly since this Government took office. At the last election, we said we would cut crime and Deputy O'Donoghue as Minister has delivered on this promise in a comprehensive way. He deserves great credit for the steps he has taken and for his readiness to use the full machinery of Government to protect people and neighbourhoods from crime and the fear of crime.
The Minister's overriding aim is to rebuild Ireland's civic society. His aim also is to strengthen our communities and to restore confidence in law and order. We should be clear that this Government is winning the battle and take pride in that. The figures show that crime has fallen by an unprecedented 25% since this Government took office. Alongside the drop in crime, the detection rate for recorded crime has increased significantly over our period in office. Ireland now has a detection rate of 44% compared to 25% in the USA and 25% in the UK. This is because the Government has provided the resources to police our streets, waterways and airspace as never before.
For the first time in years, police numbers are increasing. There are almost 1,000 more gardaí on our streets and we are on target to ensure the force reaches its full complement of 12,000. I stress that extra gardaí should be available for our smaller towns and they should not be taken away at weekends to the cities and bigger towns. CCTV should be available in town centres to improve security.
People have not forgotten what happened when the rainbow Government was responsible for law and order. In 1995, well over 102,000 crimes were recorded in the State – an all time historic high. It was a time of utter paralysis in Government which communicated a sense of despair and hopelessness to our citizens as the criminal fraternity ran amok.
Who wrote that for the Deputy?
Members remember that the then Government failed to respond to the crisis and allowed it to grow and fester. They handled the bail issue in a very inept manner. We also had fiascos in relation to Castlerea Prison and Mountjoy Prison, frequent prison escapes and the Duncan extradition case.
There have been more prison escapes in the past year than in the past ten.
The handling of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform was an exercise in self-created crisis management and the rainbow Government had the worst record in this area in the history of the State. The Garda now has the resources and equipment to police the streets. The people of the smaller towns and villages see the patrol cars and this is very important, as is providing security in rural areas. I hope the Minister will continue with this policy. The Government amendment has said clearly what the Government is doing.
I welcome the opportunity of contributing to this debate. I read the motion. It is a wish list of condemnations and aspirations with little positive in it. I compliment the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Síochána for the sterling work they have done. I will be parochial and compliment the gardaí in my constituency, Dublin North West, for the work they have done. I pay tribute particularly to those who work at the coal face. I do not pretend that policing in Dublin is easy. It is hard, draining and demanding work. Unfortunately, there are some members of the Garda who lose their lives in the course of duty. I pay tribute to the two young gardaí from Finglas station who lost their lives in the course of duty last year. They were young and valued members of the community.
The recruitment of gardaí is at an unprecedented level. The Garda are looking at new ways of policing. I support the Garda unreservedly. There is no room in any part of this city or country for B-Special or militia type activity by individuals or groups. We are aware of the activities of certain organisations in north Kerry and, unfortunately, such activities are not confined to that part of the country. Recently, a 17 year old man in my constituency was viciously and savagely beaten by a gang of thugs who took the law into their own hands. There can only be one police force here to apply law and order and we must support it unreservedly. I call on any organisation which believes it will gain kudos from the public by administering its own version of justice to desist from its activities. There are times when it is difficult for local communities to support the Garda; some yobs and thugs make it difficult for people to give statements to the Garda. However, I urge people to work on an interagency basis with the Garda and local authorities to ensure such practices cease as they do nothing to further the cause of justice.
I compliment the Minister on the introduction of a wide ranging body of legislation. I look forward to the enactment of the Children Bill which contains some extremely enlightened measures. I have long advocated that the issue of parental responsibility should be more seriously addressed and that alternative methods should be devised to deal with young people at risk of becoming involved in crime. The Children Bill addresses these issues.
Two Garda stations in my area are badly in need of refurbishment. The Ballymun area is being regenerated through a massive investment programme. Garda management has recommended the construction of a divisional headquarters in the area and I urge the Minister to make a decision on that without delay. Finglas Garda station was built at a time when Finglas village was a small rural community. The Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs office in Finglas was built at a time of high unemployment and is now substantially under used. At the risk of provoking interdepartmental rivalry, I recommend that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform consider the possibility of that office being retained for Garda use. I compliment the Minister for including Finglas as one of the areas in which closed circuit television will be introduced. There is clear evidence to suggest that CCTV is a good counter measure in the attack on criminal activity, be it in O'Connell Street, Temple Bar or Ballymun. The pilot drug courts project introduced in January is also an extremely important initiative and I look forward to its extension in the future.
The Minister of State, Deputy Ryan, referred to the innovation of the community policing forum in the south inner city area. I compliment Assistant Garda Commissioner, Jim McHugh, his staff and the community for taking the idea on board. This initiative will prove worthwhile in a number of areas throughout the country, some of which are more difficult to police than others.
I support the amendment to the motion.
We have waited a long time for the Opposition to table a motion on this issue. I commend the Government's success, particularly the success of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in identifying crime as a major issue prior to the last election and in tacking it successfully on taking office. I am not so blinkered that I do not realise crime is still a major problem.
The motion addresses a number of issues which it would be difficult to deal with comprehensively. It acknowledges that the Garda Síochána has served the country well since the foundation of the State and that its bravery, in standing up to the threat posed by the IRA and other paramilitaries, must not be forgotten. It is a pity that the main Opposition party is not conscious of that. Deputy Hayes recently received significant publicity for criticising the role played by the Garda in the Omagh bombing. His comments should be corrected. The Garda has worked diligently on this matter and we wish the gardaí continued success. No crime affected this country to the same extent as the Omagh bombing and it is most unfortunate that some politicians tried to use it to their own advantage.
I support the proposal to abolish the Garda Complaints Board. Even those directly involved in the board openly admit it is not working as successfully as they would wish. The Labour Party is seeking its replacement with a Garda ombudsman. It is important that any complaints mechanism is viewed as independent and the Garda Complaints Board, due to its composition, is not viewed as such. We should not be afraid to assess the board's operations; if the Minister were to sit down with those working in the board, he would share my view.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has addressed the crime issue with the seriousness it deserves and has provided an unprecedented level of resources to tackle crime. The installation of CCTV in urban areas is a simple but effective measure. The programme is due to be expanded with the allocation of £12 million over the next three years, £4 million of which will be provided this year. The installation of speed cameras on the roads and CCTV in urban areas is self-financing. These cameras act as a deterrent in making people more conscious of their behaviour and, therefore, result in a reduction in crime levels. It is important that we build on the success of these measures to date. There is no point clapping ourselves on the backs for the provision of £12 million which is money well spent.
There is much discussion in the House on the prevention of fatalities on our roads. The installation of additional cameras on our roads would make people slow down as it would make them realise their movements are monitored. The presence of cameras, on roads and streets, makes people change their behaviour and encourages them to behave in a more rational manner. Over indulgence in alcohol and drug use makes people behave abnormally and, in some cases, very violently.
Deputy Carey spoke about the need for one force of law and order. We cannot allow a situation to develop in which political parties set themselves up as a second police force. It is important that all Members of the House exhibit confidence in the gardaí and stand four-square behind them. Their job is becoming increasingly difficult and it is important that they be supported by the Oireachtas. Members should express their support and avoid ambivalence in this matter. A couple of Garda houses beside Newbridge Garda station have been vacant for some time. Despite their being located right beside the Garda station, they seem to attract the wrong element and the wrong type of activity. I appeal to the Minister to ensure the necessary repairs to these houses are made and that gardaí are again allowed to live in them.
I wish to share my time with Deputies McManus, O'Shea, Sean Ryan, Broughan and Healy.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I support the Labour Party motion and the document produced by the Labour Party spokesman, Deputy Howlin, on the Garda authority and related matters. This represents a radical change which will bring about a democratically accountable Garda authority, county liaison committees to deal with the gardaí at local level, a Garda ombudsman to deal with complaints to the Garda and full trade union rights for members.
This radical change is needed to bring policing in this State into a modern accountable mode, as is the case elsewhere in Europe. As of now, gardaí are accountable only to themselves. They effectively make policy, set strategy and adjudicate on complaints made against them. This is no longer acceptable. In my constituency, including the police district covering Deputy Power's constituency, indictable crime grew by 8% in 2000, the largest growth in indictable crime in the country. While this was occurring, we were 80 gardaí short of the normal Garda levels. In the new round of Garda allocations, one additional garda was sent to Maynooth.
In my constituency we are witnessing a degree of lawlessness which has not been seen before. Large convoys of black economy mobile merchants invade the county at regular intervals. They destroy public and private property on a grand scale, without fear of penalty. They break a whole range of our laws. I will give a few examples of the effects of their actions. St. Wolstan's school in Celbridge, a brand new school, was invaded under the noses of the Garda, over a period of days, and £30,000 worth of damage was caused. There were not any arrests and nobody was charged. Some £100,000 worth of damage was done to Naas athletic grounds which was invaded by a similar marauding gang. There were not any arrests and people were not charged in the case.
Who are these people?
They are mobile black economy merchants who move around the country in large convoys, masquerading as Travellers.
Castletown House was broken into and Naas Mart is the latest victim of this daylight criminality. These people demand money with menaces from the public and threaten to invade their property if they do not pay up, and sometimes they do. Celbridge town is now like a town waiting for an invasion, with entrances to private and public property barred in a variety of ways. There was a Garda presence during all these incidents and they did not take effective action. When we spoke later to Garda officers, they said the law was insufficient to deal with the situation and/or some officers might be hurt. That is unacceptable.
There are large gatherings of aggressive youths in every housing estate, mostly white collar housing estates, in my constituency. This is not a tiny minority, it is large-scale gatherings of aggressive, mostly male, young people who seem to be alienated from society. They congregate on pedestrian ways, green areas and in wooded areas which have become "no go" areas for the public. The Garda simply is not using the Public Order Act in this regard. These youngsters gather mostly to smoke cannabis, which is their social drug of choice. They are forced into criminality by the lack of recognition by Government or the authorities of the reality that cannabis is the social drug of choice of this large group of people.
The radical change required has been outlined in our document and statements and I ask the House to support it.
I pay tribute to the Garda who very often work in difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions and who in the past worked under the additional threat of paramilitary violence. Like all of us, they are affected by the background against which they operate. It is important to recognise that this background and society at large have changed dramatically in a relatively short time. This motion is about adapting an institution in response to these changes in a way that other institutions have changed. It is time to consider modernising the Garda and the way it operates.
There has been a drop in the level of certain crimes, largely crimes relating to property. We must recognise the changes in society which were crucial to that reduction, including higher employment levels and the fact that there is greater availability of drug treatment which stabilises many addicts and leads them away from stealing to feed their habit. These are important changes in terms of crime reduction. In the area of violent crime, particularly rape, there is grave concern about what is happening. We can accept in regard to rape that there may be a certain time lapse between the time the crime took place and reporting of the incident and there may now be more openness. Generally speaking, if one includes anti-social behaviour, it is quite clear that communities and individuals are very afraid of the level of violence.
The general culture is not helpful in reducing the levels of violence, particularly given the constant television images giving the impression that somehow violence solves conflict. One of the best ways to deal with anti-social behaviour in young people is through the close co-operation of public representatives, local communities and the Garda by way of liaison committees. There is an ad hoc committee in my community which is extremely effective in reducing crime, encouraging greater Garda activity and eliminating vigilantism. One of the strongest arguments for having these committees enshrined in law is to make them obligatory rather than simply based on the goodwill of the local gardaí.
The proposed Garda authority is an extremely important body which must be introduced if we are to ensure true independence of the Garda. Judges have a very clearly defined independence. It is time for a much greater degree of independence for the Garda from whatever Government happens to be in power. It is not appropriate for all senior appointments to be in the gift of any Government. There would be fewer tribunals today were gardaí able to operate in a totally non-political framework. For example, the investigations carried out by gardaí into the nexus between politics and business in the Dublin County Council area might have been more effective were it not for the fact that when some of these investigations were carried out the Minister for Justice happened to be Ray Burke.
That type of unfortunate connection can be perceived if only because of the way senior appointments are made. We must ensure there is total separation between the appointment of senior gardaí and—
Why?
It would be good for society and a step forward which we must recognise would be of value. It is a pity if the Minister in question does not recognise that there is a very strong argument for this.
I was deeply disappointed recently by a response I received to a parliamentary question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, that he does not propose to set up a task force on organised crime similar to the Northern Ireland organised crime task force. The Northern Ireland organised crime task force was set up last September by the former Northern Secretary, Peter Mandelson. The first report of the task force entitled, The Threat to Northern Ireland Society from Serious and Organised Crime, stated that 78 groups involving some 400 members had been identified by the police. The report also said that 43 of the crime gangs had current or historical links to republican or loyalist paramilitary organisations. However, 35 had no such known links. If the people of Northern Ireland are provided with this kind of detailed information, the people on this part of the island should also have it. If we are serious about openness and transparency, our Minister's decision is not in line with that.
The Minister informed me that the tackling of organised crime remains one of his highest priorities and that the legislative and law enforcement measures which have been introduced in recent years have had a significant impact on organised crime. The Minister stated that major organised crime gangs had been dismantled and a number of prominent criminals had fled this jurisdiction. He further stated that the Garda Commissioner and he are satisfied that there are adequate structural measures and resources in place to provide an effective response to fight organised crime. It is absolutely essential to identify the extent of organised crime in this jurisdiction, particularly organised crime with links to paramilitary organisations. The ongoing attitudes of paramilitaries in both parts of Ireland to law enforcement agencies remains a major matter of concern and, in the interests of democracy, it is imperative that the political establishment does not stand idly by in the current situation.
In view of the recent Sinn Féin incursions into vigilantism, I call on Sinn Féin Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, a democratically elected Member of this House, to state fully and unequivocally his support for the Garda Síochána. The Minister informed us last night that there was no place in our society for vigilantism no matter how it is dressed up and that, try as they might, people will not be allowed to electioneer by disregarding the law. He quite rightly said that anarchy ensues when summary justice is dispensed by people who act as judge, jury and executioner. He was talking about Sinn Féin. The leaders of that party, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, were recently reported as being members of the IRA army council. To the best of my knowledge, this report has not been denied. Punishment attacks continue in Northern Ireland. South Armagh has figured in regard to events surrounding foot and mouth disease on this island. There is little doubt that cross-Border smuggling is now big business indeed and that paramilitaries are no strangers to that practice.
The new Garda authority proposed by my colleague, Deputy Howlin, in the House last night would set the priorities for fighting the sort of crime I have outlined and would do so at a national level. It would be a very important support for the commissioner. The Garda authority would lead to more accountability and openness regarding key decisions on policing. It would operate in conjunction with the county policing liaison committees proposed by Deputy Howlin – a mechanism for communities throughout the country to engage more fully with the Garda Síochána – and thereby provide more support or assistance for the members of the force. The idea of a Garda ombudsman, which I fully support, has much to offer, not least the saving of Garda time.
I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak on our Private Members' motion. At a time of unparallelled growth when the standard of living of many, although not all, has improved in recent years, the effects of crime, serious and petty, is percolating through our communities. Murder is becoming a daily news item. Gangland shootings, drug pushing, loitering with intent and public disorder are becoming an unacceptable norm. Our parents, grandparents, the elderly in general and our law abiding tax complying citizens and their families are being harassed and intimidated nightly. This is not restricted to any particular area, urban or rural. This is modern Ireland in the 21st century and it is not pretty.
The Minister for zero tolerance has failed the people. Speaking to people, there is clear evidence that members of the public, by and large, are no longer contacting gardaí and reporting harassment and intimidation. They simply believe that telephoning the gardaí will not achieve anything. On the contrary, if they contact the gardaí and wait for them to arrive in the fullness of time, they will be targeted by the criminals and the gurriers. Stone throwing, egg throwing, group congregation and intimidation are the result and the gardaí are unable to cope. I am not blaming the gardaí, many of whom I know personally, who are carrying out their duties in an excellent manner but with insufficient personnel and lack of back up resources.
My constituency is one of the fastest growing areas in Ireland and it is urban and rural in character. However, the number of gardaí has not kept pace with the increase in population in the Swords and Malahide sub-district and the Balbriggan district areas. The Swords area, which covers 12 square miles, has a population of approximately 35,000 and is served by one superintendent, eight sergeants and approximately 36 operational gardaí. On the basis of three shifts, this means that nine gardaí are on duty at any one time. This does not take into consideration holidays, sick leave and court duties.
In Balbriggan, 44 gardaí are required to cover the towns of Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush, Lusk and the wider rural areas with a population in excess of 31,000. The Malahide sub-district, with a population of 28,000, is served by seven gardaí and 29 operational gardaí covering Malahide, Portmarnock, Kinsealy and the large housing estates of Seabury and Melrose. The concept of community gardaí is an excellent one provided the gardaí are available. Large housing estates with in excess of 2,000 houses do not, by and large, have the benefit of a community garda.
In my constituency, there have been occasions when some of the few patrol cars we have have not been in use – they have been grounded due to the shortage of drivers. This is a scandalous situation which has been allowed to develop by the Minister for zero tolerance and the Government. They need to listen and respond to the needs of the people and not try to con them. The statistics show that the Minister has discriminated against Dublin and the people of Dublin in the allocation of gardaí and in the reduction in the number of gardaí on the street. I ask the Minister to take on board the excellent proposals put forward by Deputy Howlin and the Labour Party. Let us work together.
I warmly welcome the proposals drafted by Deputy Howlin. They are in the best interest of the Garda, which has served our nation well. Eight or nine years ago Dublin City Council established a control of crime committee and a liaison committee with the assistant Garda commissioner at the time, Barney Curley. The assistant commissioner used to meet us in City Hall and hear at first hand from councillors about the various incidents occurring around the city. We also met him at Harcourt Street. Unfortunately, perhaps for his own reasons, the assistant commissioner decided to discontinue those meetings and it was a great loss. However, I witnessed the success of this attempt to introduce a local control element in the administration of the fight against crime at first hand. That is why I commend Deputy Howlin.
The time has come for a county policing liaison committee and a Garda authority adopting the hallmarks of accountability and democracy with echoes of the Patten report. The Garda in the Dublin region, through initiatives such as the Priorswood anti-joyriding task force and Finglas crime forum, has tried to interact with local communities. The harsh reality, however, over the past four years is that the Minister has a lamentable and desperate record on the provision of resources to fight crime. As I tried to point out to the Taoiseach earlier, nobody believes the Garda reports anymore. Even at a rough estimate, as the Irish Independent reported last year, crime levels are running at perhaps twice the level stated by the Minister through Garda reports. The reality is brought home to those living in west and north Dublin night after night, as the Taoiseach could tell the Minister, with major outbreaks of larceny and car theft. The elderly and people living alone live constantly in fear.
For example, over the past four and five weeks, there has been a massive and intensely frustrating revival of joyriding. Some nights up to five and six cars are tearing around estates south of the M50 from Coolock to Donaghmede and Baldoyle. I have photographs of these cars taken in daylight when the Garda was recovering them. It is dangerous for gardaí and residents and it is also desperately unfair and totally unnecessary.
Fourteen months ago the Labour Party gave the Minister an opportunity through the Anti-Joyriding Bill to take action and do something about joyriding. We set out a programme of action relating to education, youth clubs and local communities and proposed a specialised Garda joyriding/car crime unit and education in mechanics. The Minister has done absolutely nothing and is sitting in an arrogant manner in the House tonight. He met the anti-joyriding task force once a few months ago to examine the report David Farrington compiled for him. I asked the Minister six weeks ago to provide extra Garda and educational resources and a single co-ordinator. I am still asking and I am very angry.
It is annoying that the Minister is prepared to allow this outrageous behaviour to continue night after night and to allow the constituents of Dublin North Central and Dublin North West to be treated in this manner. If it was happening in Kerry South, there is no doubt the Minister would declare a state of emergency.
Do Fianna Fáil Members talk to the Minister?
It is absolutely intolerable. Is it any wonder people are setting themselves up as vigilantes when the Minister refuses to take action in this regard?
Many citizens night after night find their cars interfered with and live in terror for hours afterwards. The Minister is a disgrace. The gardaí in the districts most affected, in particular the J and R districts, on the north side are extremely hard pressed and lack manpower. I agree with Deputy Stagg. How can 80,000 or 90,000 people be policed with a few hundred gardaí? It is an outrageous scenario. I draw the Minister's attention to the palpable anger among the public at his failure to deal with a rash of assaults, larcenies and drink and drug fuelled mayhem which happens late at night throughout many parts of Dublin. He has not taken action and will not take on board even the most basic and common sense proposals from the Opposition, such as this fine proposal from my colleague, Deputy Howlin.
It is shameful.
I am happy to have the opportunity to support the motion. I compliment the Garda and acknowledge the work it does in difficult and often dangerous circumstances. I am disturbed by the Government's response to the motion because it demonstrates little or no understanding of the level of crime and anti-social behaviour in our communities. The amendment reflects a head in the sand approach and a case of opposition for opposition's sake.
The Government amendment points out a 25% reduction in crime levels. That statistic may be true but we all know that a large number of crimes go unreported. People are frustrated that over the years little or nothing has been done about crimes they have reported. They are now saying there is no point in reporting crimes to the Garda. That is unfortunate and sad but it is the reality. The Government amendment also refers to a high level of support for the Garda, which is true, but it fails to acknowledge the significant and growing minority of people who have little or no respect for the Garda. That is in evidence on a regular basis in our estates, towns and cities. Sadly, a Garda patrol car was stoned and damaged in an estate in my own town in the past week by children aged between 12 and 14 years. Unfortunately, the Government seems to have little or no understanding of these developments.
There are serious levels of anti-social behaviour in our communities in the form of harassment, stone throwing, window breaking and abuse of alcohol and drugs. Elderly people are terrified and people generally are demoralised. Young people are being destroyed. Additional specifically dedicated community gardaí are needed on the beat in estates, towns and cities where they can be seen and can build a relationship and a partnership with local communities, not in Garda patrol cars and vanettes.
Clonmel is the biggest town in south Tipperary. On a shift basis, six gardaí are on duty in a town with a population of 20,000 and with another 5,000 and 10,000 people living in its hinterland. That is totally inadequate policing in the current context.
I support the concept of local liaison committees. Clonmel Corporation informally requested in the past month that the local Garda superintendent, community workers and health board officials would come together with members of the local authority to ensure liaison between all the services to address the difficult anti-social behaviour that is witnessed on a regular basis in the town.
I refer to street violence which is in evidence on a weekly basis in most towns. Closed circuit television systems should be provided in all large towns and not just in the cities because there is gratuitous violence regularly following discos throughout the country. Unfortunately, south Tipperary is no exception. I receive complaints daily from constituents in Clonmel, Tipperary town, Dundrum and Carrick-on-Suir about it. There is a need for additional resources and community gardaí on the beat. I ask the Minister to respond to this point because it has been raised by various Members during the debate. The link between local communities and local gardaí must be established on a partnership basis through local liaison committees.
I am happy to have an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the motion introduced by the Labour Party. As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, indicated clearly last night, it is difficult to understand why the Labour Party is seeking to criticise him for a lack of action in combating crime and improving policing.
Not listening.
The truth must be fully apparent to everyone apart from the proposers of the motion that, since the Minister came into office, the level of crime has fallen significantly and the resources provided to the Garda Síochána have never been greater.
The Minister of State is not living in the real world.
That is not true.
The Deputies will have an opportunity to respond.
Unfortunately, I do not have sufficient time to cover all the relevant issues, but a number of important points must be made in relation to the motion to ensure truth is brought into the debate. Although the motion refers to crime, it completely fails to take account of the fact that recorded crime—
Recorded crime – nobody bothers reporting it any more.
—has fallen each year the Government has held office. The provisional figures for last year show that recorded crime fell by almost 5% on the 1999 figure. The Labour Party will be interested to know that the cumulative fall on the all time high 1995 levels is approximately 25%. The Minister has, on many occasions, encouraged members of the public to report crime. There is no evidence that under-reporting of crime is higher now than it has been at any other time. The detection rate for recorded crime has also improved in recent years. Signifi cant initiatives have been introduced by the Government and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to strengthen the fight against crime. These include the establishment of the National Crime Council, the first in the history of the State, which will address issues linked to crime as well as advising the Minister on crime prevention measures.
Passing the buck.
The motion is misdirected in so far as it concerns resources for the Garda Síochána. The reality is that the Garda has never been as well resourced and financed as under this Government. In that context, it should be noted that the Estimates for the Garda Vote have increased from £472 million in 1997, when this Government came into office, to £698 million for the current year, an increase of 48%.
Since the Government came into office, the strength of the Garda Síochána has increased from a base line of 10,800 and it is on target to reach the planned strength of 12,000 by 2002. Current recruitment will bring Garda strength to 11,800 by the end of 2001 and the current competition will take Garda numbers up to 12,000 next year.
How many have left?
This means that, during the term of the Government, the force has already achieved the highest strength levels ever and that process is being further reinforced.
The Government has taken steps to ensure that the Garda has the best, most modern and most effective equipment to carry out its tasks. In that regard, a new helicopter is being purchased and will enter into service later this year. Moreover, £12 million has been allocated towards the installation of Garda CCTV systems nationwide over the next three years, with £4 million being made available in 2001. Plans have also been made to introduce a grant system this year to cater for communities who wish to go ahead with their own local CCTV system.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been responsible for a comprehensive programme of criminal law reform. This legislation has tackled a broad range of topics and is a vital element in ensuring that the Garda can respond effectively to the challenges society faces from modern crime, particularly organised and drug related crime. A new Criminal Justice Bill is being prepared by the Minister in response to recommendations made in the report of the steering group on the efficiency and effectiveness of the Garda Síochána.
The Minister has also been extremely active in promoting and developing change within the Garda Síochána to enable it to meet the demands of our modern society and to perform its tasks as efficiently and effectively as possible. This has largely been done through the Garda SMI process under which a report has recently been provided recommending the civilianisation of posts currently held by gardaí. The report envisages the release of 556 Garda members to operational policing. A Garda national quality service bureau has also been established to drive implementation of the Garda quality service action plan.
There is no doubt that, on the basis of the impressive record of the Minister and the Government, the Minister should be congratulated on all that has been achieved in this area. In seeking to attack and condemn the Minister, the Labour Party motion deliberately ignores all the good work he has carried out to address crime effectively and to make sure that the Garda Síochána is properly resourced and equipped. These are areas that were openly and shamefully neglected by the last Government and the motion can only be seen as completely cynical and politically motivated.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Howlin.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I did not want to take that for granted given the other side. I listened to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform moving the litany amendment last night and for a person who has achieved much, I was amazed at his total defensiveness and failure to understand the constructive nature of the motion. I am appalled at the siege mentality expressed by the Minister. He has done much and he had plenty of money to do it, but the last Government also put more money into areas than had previously been provided because more money was available. If that is the path the Minister wishes to take, that is fine because we know what is at the end of it. I wish him well, but the reality is that more needs to be done.
We have made no secret of the fact, as Deputy Howlin said, that the proposal for the authority and a new complaints procedure is unashamedly modelled on the Patten report. That report is the best consultancy advice one could get anywhere in the western world on a modern policing force. It contains 175 recommendations, of which only 15 address the unique issues of the divided community that is the reality in Northern Ireland. The remaining 160 recommendations come from the best possible combination of advice one could get. I met the Patten Commission on two separate occasions and we discussed issues in great detail. I sat at a table with three former Ministers for Justice – the post is not permanent in case the Minister thinks otherwise.
I am acutely aware of that.
As other speakers said, there was a time when the combination in urban and rural areas, but particularly rural areas, of the priest, the teacher and the garda had their fingers on the pulse with regard to the needs of the community and the reality of life there. However, that is no longer the case. Anybody who suggests that the Garda Commissioner, the district inspector, the superintendent or the local sergeant knows the pulse of the community is not living in reality. The Minister knows the number of people he has promoted who commute from one end of the country to another to serve in their operational district while their families and friends live elsewhere. This is 2001, not 1923 or 1924 when the Garda Síochána was set up.
There are enough tributes to the Garda on the record from my party colleagues for me not to use up valuable time reiterating them. We salute the work of the Garda and we are trying to enable them to do a difficult job in hard times more effectively and efficiently. Nobody can be a judge in their own case and the Garda does not want to be the judge in its case in terms of investigating complaints against it. Notwithstanding that difficulty, it has been relentless in many cases in operating a difficult system. This is why we want to change it and why Deputy Howlin has argued so passionately for an independent system.
It may be a surprise to the Minister of State, but senior gardaí have indicated in private – it must be in private and I will address this point later – their willingness to accept such a change. They do not consider the idea of an independent complaints procedure or an ombudsman as an attack on them. They consider it a liberation which will enable them to get on with the job without being open to the accusation that they are attempting to cover something up. We need structures and an authority as set out in our Bill and motion which bring together community interests which can communicate the reality in that area to gardaí who no longer live in the area and probably cannot afford to. That connection is necessary at local level. What we suggest is not an attack on the Garda. Its members would have the right for the first time to nominate gardaí to the new authority. Neither is it an attack on the actions of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. People do not want to see gardaí in helicopters but on the streets. For the Minister to tell us that part of his serious response to this proposal is putting gardaí in helicopters is an indication of how high in the sky he is when considering our proposals.
Gardaí are workers who sell their labour in a professional way and who, at the turn of the century, are entitled to the rights civil servants have in respect of trade unions and which many personnel in the Army and elsewhere have. They need to have the same freedoms and ability to exercise their rights as those in police forces in other European countries. That is why we want to grant them trade union status. We must not ever again see the nonsense of the blue 'flu being visited upon the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Garda Commissioner, or the Minister, whoever he or she might be. For that reason we have brought forward this set of additional proposals which should be examined, taken into account and given a reasonable response. Sadly, we have had nonsense and a defensive response to what we have proposed and no engagement. The Minister gave a litany of what he has achieved and of which we are aware. We are critical of some achievements and applaud others.
However, it is not good enough. If the Minister believes everyone who is the victim of crime reports it or that the level of reporting is the same as it was ten or 15 years ago, something is seriously wrong in his Department. For that reason, there is a need to introduce the changes we have proposed. They are based on sound principles and reflect the modern Ireland of this century. I am appalled by the defensive response of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the two Ministers who represent it.
During the course of the debate, I and other Deputies in the Labour Party and across the House laid out an analysis of policing in Ireland, including its strengths and deficiencies. We did so deliberately devoid of rhetoric and invective. We spelled out our view of the unacceptable crime levels which pertain in communities throughout the country. We deliberately took that approach which was in stark contrast to the bombastic, vicious and personalised style of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when he was in Opposition. He saw criminality behind every furze bush and demanded that his immediate predecessor take responsibility for every criminal act perpetrated in the State. We laid out a reasonable, thought out and validated programme of reform.
The Minister's response was nothing short of disgraceful. He largely ignored the detail of the proposals we put forward and reverted to normal form. His usual contortion of history was spewed out. His performance was more appropriate to an address from the back of an election lorry in the 1950s than to a reasoned response of a Minister charged under the Constitution and the law with responsibility for the administration of justice and policing matters in Ireland. The House deserves better. The Minister has yet again disgraced himself in response to a reasoned debate. We are not surprised. The Minister believes our crime levels are similar to those in the 1950s. He is either deluded or deliberately sets out to delude. He is ignorant of the reality in many communities which has been spelled out in detail by Members.
I do not know about the Minister's desk, but as Opposition spokesman, mine is festooned daily with anecdotal evidence from communities throughout the land about criminality. Yesterday a distraught woman told me how, last weekend in her housing estate in Dublin, a group shot live rounds through a house with the result that the Garda sealed off the area. Apparently this is not the first time this has happened. We are aware of vigilantes in operation. For many young people the streets have become places of fear. Youth violence has reached unprecedented levels of viciousness. What we heard from the Minister was a self-satisfied and smug dismissal of reality. What we required was an engagement with what are, by any rational analysis, well thought out proposals placed before the House for rational debate and discussion.
There are three core issues in the Labour Party set of proposals which are elaborate and are simply referred to in the motion under discussion. The proposal for a Garda authority did not receive a response from the Minister. It has the objectives of setting out in a democratic way priorities for fighting crime at national level, making senior appointments in the Garda at one remove from the political system, working out the resources required to reach its objective of defeating crime, and engaging with the Government to ensure those resources are provided. That is not a grandiose proposal but it did not even merit the decency of a response in the Minister's long speech, the only objective of which was for the Minister to clap himself on the back and ignore proposals from this side of the House, no matter how meritorious they may be.
We proposed the establishment of county policing liaison committees, which were welcomed by many in the House as a proper chance for local communities to be allied with An Garda Síochána in defeating crime. They are working on a pilot basis in many areas. Deputy Broughan cited the fact that they used be a feature in Dublin city. The Minister's colleague, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, is doing this with strategic policy committees in other areas of local administration. There is nothing unique or invalid about policing liaison committees, but yet again they did not merit a reasoned response from the Minister.
The third element of our proposals was the establishment of a Garda ombudsman. The concept received wide support across the House, including, I am glad to say, from the Government benches in the form of Deputy Power who indicated his support. We cannot all be wrong. There must be some merit in these proposals. The Minister is so caught up in his own self-worth and importance that he will not allow proposals from this side of the House to be even subject to critical analysis.
Policing is a critical issue in any society. No system of policing or of any administration is so set in stone for all time that it is unable to change for the better to meet the needs of an evolving and changing world. The responsibility for overseeing reform falls to the House. That responsibility will be exercised by us, notwithstanding the smug indifference of the Minister. The debate we have begun will continue outside the House. Reform will happen, if not on the watch of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, then when someone more in touch with modern Ireland holds his portfolio.
Amendment put.
Tá
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Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary. |
Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John J.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Desmond.Power, Seán.Reynolds, Albert.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin. Smith, Brendan. |
Tá–continued
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Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan. |
Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V. |
Níl
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Allen, Bernard.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis J.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas P.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, Richard.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Crawford, Seymour.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.Howlin, Brendan. |
McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Bradford and Stagg.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.
- Private Notice Questions. - An Bille um an Tríú Leasú is Fiche ar an mBunreacht, 2001: An Dara Céim (Atógáil). Twenty-third Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2001: Second Stage (Resumed).
- Ar ais chuig clár ábhair
- Private Members' Business. - An Bille um an Tríú Leasú is Fiche ar an mBunreacht. 2001: An Dara Céim (Atógáil). Twenty-third Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2001: Second Stage (Resumed).