It is proposed to take No. 20, European Convention on Human Rights Bill 2001 – Report and Final Stages (Resumed); No. 21, Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Second Stage (Resumed); No. 22, Arts Bill 2002 – Report and Final Stages (Resumed); and No. 23, Fisheries (Amendment) Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on the resumed Report and Final Stages of No. 20 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Private Members' business shall be No. 36 – motion re Mental Health (Resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20, the conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the European Convention on Human Rights Bill 2001 agreed to?
I cannot support the Order of Business until the House is given a commitment by the Taoiseach that Members will have the opportunity to debate the so-called 80-page progress report presented by the Government last week.
That matter does not arise.
It arises in regard to the Order of Business—
The proposal before the House concerns the conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the European Convention on Human Rights Bill 2001.
—-because Deputies were not allowed, by your ruling yesterday, a Cheann Comhairle, to question the Taoiseach on this very important matter. Today, on a matter of less importance, questions were allowed.
I am sorry, Deputy. I am putting the question.
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Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary. |
Cowen, Brian.Cregan, John.Curran, John.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim. Grealish, Noel. |
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Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.McDowell, Michael.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M. J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. |
O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G.V. |
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Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Harkin, Marian.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Howlin, Brendan.Lynch, Kathleen.McGrath, Finian.McManus, Liz.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. |
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Quinn, Ruairi.Rabbitte, Pat.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Twomey, Liam.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Is it in order to comment on the European Convention on Human Rights Bill?
I will hear the Deputy's comment before I rule on it.
I object in principle to guillotines, a point which I have made before.
The point would properly have been raised when the proposal was being dealt with.
On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle called the division before Deputies offering from other parties had an opportunity to make their point. It is important to bear in mind that other parties should be able to make their point.
Unfortunately, the Chair only saw one Deputy offering and that was Deputy Ó Caoláin. He raised a matter which had nothing to do with the issue before the House.
That is not a reason.
That should not preclude a party from being able to make its point.
The Deputy's party has disqualified itself. It belongs to a timeshare arrangement.
May I put a question on promised legislation?
Deputy Rabbitte on promised legislation.
I am still trying to figure out how the Taoiseach hopes to prevent more millionaires coming into the House by raising the limits on election expenditure. I cannot see the connection. Does the Government intend to introduce legislation to raise spending at election time?
There is no legislation promised but this area will be discussed with all parties. The reality is that I cannot walk around the House without being asked about this issue. It is a burning issue with Fine Gael, the Labour Party, the Green Party, Sinn Féin and everyone else.
That is not true. No Labour Party Deputy has asked about it.
I realise I will get a response from the Taoiseach but I would like an answer as well. What is the situation with the Bill concerning Bord Bia? The Minister for Agriculture and Food is currently involved in CAP reform negotiations. When will the House have the opportunity to debate that issue or will we have to wait until some time in 2004 before we get round to it by way of a Bill?
The first question is in order.
There is no time available to debate CAP reform other than what is in the Order Paper and I want to ask if the Government will make time available.
The question on the debate is for the Whips.
The Heads of the Bill to amalgamate Bord Bia and Bord Glas are expected this month and the legislation will be drafted after that.
When will there be a debate on the report on the spatial strategy? It is being debated across the State but not in this House. On the Local Government Bill, will there be an examination of the boundaries for the local elections and will its results be introduced by legislation or regulation? When will there be a decision on the boundaries for the European elections?
The final report on the census has not been published yet. On the Local Government Bill, it has already been passed and I do not see any change in local government areas based on the census. We will have to look at the issue for the European elections.
We cannot hear the Taoiseach's reply.
I said that the Local Government Bill has already been passed and the final report on the census figures is not yet available.
That is not what I asked. When the census figures are published, will they be considered and, if necessary, will the boundaries be changed?
There is no legislation on that matter.
I asked if there will be legislation or regulation.
There is no legislation on the matter.
Will there be regulation?
The Taoiseach has answered the question.
I would like a reply.
Deputy Allen could not get an answer.
I suggest Deputy Allen submits a parliamentary question.
This is a question on legislation.
There is no report yet. We do not what will happen until it is published.
If the report states that there have been changes—
It will be raining on Monday and sunny on Tuesday.
We cannot anticipate the report, we must wait for it.
There have been major changes in population.
The Taoiseach has answered the question. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
On an undertaking given in the House already arising from a matter about which a number of parliamentary questions have been asked and answered, the questions asked which Minister will lead the Irish delegation to the World Trade Organisation negotiations in Cancun and dealt with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Minister for Agriculture and Food and other Ministers. A debate has been promised in this House and it is important that it takes place before the meeting. It is also important that necessary and related legislation which affects the position taken by Ireland be scheduled before the debate itself. The Whip will be familiar with the arguments put forward for this and I would like to hear the schedule of legislation and the timing of the debate in advance of the meeting of the WTO in Cancun. The reason I ask this—
It is not necessary to give a reason if the Deputy allows the Taoiseach to answer the question.
—is because the Minister for Agriculture and Food may claim a victory from the talks while the Minister for Foreign Affairs may claim something else. I am asking for the schedule of the times for that debate but also for any related legislation needed before it.
This matter was also discussed at a meeting of the Committee on Enterprise and Small Business this morning. Which Minister or Ministers will participate in the full Dáil debate and will the structure of the debate allow for questions and answers?
That does not arise at this stage.
It does.
It is critical.
There is a commitment for a debate and I understand it is scheduled for Friday, 27 June. We have not worked out what Ministers will attend but if agricultural or trade issues are related to the matter, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern is involved.
Is Deputy Callely free?
Deputy Michael Ahern is leading the delegation and the Minister for Agriculture and Food will attend.
The Minister for Agriculture and Food is also involved, that is right. I assume we should link agricultural and trade issues.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that, before it breaks for the summer, the House will have the opportunity to discuss the three major reports on health – Hanley, Prospectus and Brennan – which are due to be published shortly?
In respect of the legislation referred to by Deputy Rabbitte concerning spending limits for Dáil elections, the material has now been published and some Ministers have exceeded the limit by more than €36,000. What does the Taoiseach propose to do about that?
That matter was already discussed on Leaders' Question this morning.
There will be a debate on the health reports. I think it will be a Friday session.
What about the spending limits?
There is no legislation promised in that area.
Will the Taoiseach commit to a debate on the Government's most recent contribution to Irish mythology, the so-called progress report, about which we have not had the opportunity to ask the Taoiseach questions?
That is a matter for the Whips.
Is the Taoiseach concerned about the refusal of some banks to pass on interest rate cuts dictated by the ECB to their commercial and domestic customers? Where is the promised Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland (No. 2) Bill, promised repeatedly by the Minister for Finance on Committee Stage of the original Bill?
It should be ready later this year.
The Minister said it would be ready before the summer.
Prior to the publication of the strategic rail review, the Minister for Transport gave a commitment in the House that there would be a debate on the report. Will that report be debated before the summer recess?
Based on the number of debates planned, even with Friday sittings, it is unlikely.
We could take it in the sanitised space on a Friday when the Government cannot be questioned.
On a Friday evening or even a Saturday morning.
The new sanitised sittings.
We discussed the heads of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, which is quite a mish-mash, with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform this morning. The Minister indicated a time scale of ten to 14 days for the legislation to come before the House. Will the Taoiseach tell us precisely when the Bill will be before us and will he guarantee that there will be time to discuss the legislation? There are some very serious issues particularly with regard to the Equal Status Act that are affected by it.
We hope to introduce the Bill next week.
I wish to clarify the ordering of business up to the recess. In reply to Deputy Michael D. Higgins the Taoiseach said that on 27 June there would be a debate on the trade issue, the World Trade Organisation and related issues. I have heard 27 June also mooted for a debate on the health reports. Will the Taoiseach say that both those substantial issues will not be forced into the one day? That is a legitimate question. Will the Taoiseach give a commitment that the debates will not be forced into the one day and thereby restricted? On the Residential Tenancies Bill which has been published—
Allow the Taoiseach to reply.
We have to work out the times. Whenever it starts, I do not think the health debate will finish in one day because the reports are extensive. Whenever it starts it will continue on.
On the second point, in regard to the Residential Tenancies Bill, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government indicated there was no way it could pass all Stages before the recess. He wants a good discussion on it and so do I about all the escape hatchets for landlords, but let us leave those aside. Will the Taoiseach give a commitment that Second Stage will begin this session in order to commence the debate on the Residential Tenancies Bill?
I hope it would but that is a matter for the Minister and the Whips.
With respect, it is not a matter for the Minister, it is a matter of the Taoiseach ordering the business of the Dáil.
Sorry, Deputy, the Taoiseach has answered the question.
I might as well make this point. There are 36 Bills before the House. There are endless reports. We are already sitting late.
The Taoiseach will not be here.
We are already sitting late – far later than most Members would ever dream of.
No, we are not. The Taoiseach cannot make statements like that.
We are sitting four days a week. It will not be possible to start and finish every Bill in this session. We will have to work it out with the Whips and do the best we can as we do every year.
We will do the best we can.
I wish to raise to two relevant items. In light of the ongoing industrial dispute in agriculture is there any hope the industrial relations (amendment) Bill can be brought before the House as a matter of urgency? When can we expect to see the personal injuries assessment board Bill to come before the House?
The industrial relations Bill is being drafted and it is expected to be available shortly, hopefully this session, but it might be next session.
What about the personal injuries assessment board Bill?
It will be the autumn before that Bill is before the House.
There has been a 30% cut.
It has taken six years to get this far and now we will have it in the autumn. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, has been coat trailing it for the past 13 months.
Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
I do, Sir.
Deputy Crawford asked a question on that Bill.
He did. I apologise for intruding. Talking about doing the best we can, will the Abbotstown Bill be introduced before we rise for the summer?
I do not think so.
That is the Taoiseach doing the best he can.
On proposed legislation, I wish to return to the greater Dublin planning and transport authority Bill. This has been filleted down from a Bill with 44 heads, to the stage where, according to the last time I raised it with the Taoiseach, it will not go ahead. Instead, he said, the regional authorities will be responsible for planning. I have come across correspondence between the regional authorities and the organisation—
Sorry, does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
This is appropriate. This is the only place I can ask it. I am going to ask the Taoiseach—
The Deputy can submit a question.
No, I am asking about the legislation which I pursued here. Through questions I have asked it has become defunct. I want to resurrect it if I can and explain why. It will take only 30 seconds.
The Deputy does not have to explain why he wants to resurrect it.
I just want to explain why the legislation should go ahead.
To what Bill is the Deputy referring?
The greater Dublin planning and transport authority Bill. I have to explain what I am talking about in terms of the legislation.
It might be more appropriate to a question. We only deal with legislation that is promised before the House on the Order of Business.
A Cheann Comhairle, can I explain to you? This Bill goes across various Departments. It was on the order of legislation. In answer to questions, the Taoiseach said the regional authorities would now take on the Bill. I wish to make two points in that regard. The regional authorities are not the appropriate bodies to carry out the function. They have said that in correspondence with An Taisce which I have. If the Taoiseach is not willing to go to the full extent in terms of having a greater Dublin planning and transport authority, will he give the Dublin Transportation Office statutory powers which it does not have, and allow the strategic guidelines—
Is legislation promised?
Allow me to finish, a Cheann Comhairle.
The Deputy is out of order.
I am not out of order.
The Deputy is out of order.
I am not out of order. I am raising a matter of legislation.
The Deputy is out of order. That will be clear to him if he reads Standing Order 26. I do not want to read it into the record every day.
Perhaps I can briefly finish the point.
The Deputy has made his point and he has asked nothing related to promised legislation.
The promised legislation—
What legislation is promised?
The greater Dublin planning and transport authority Bill.
This legislation was to establish the strategic land use and transport authority in the greater Dublin area.
The Minister has already told the House. Why is the Taoiseach reading what it is about if—
Does the Deputy want an answer from me?
Yes. Since the Minister has already told the House—
I was only trying to be courteous to the Deputy.
—we are wasting time.
That is rich coming from that side of the House.
The Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, should be at his desk picking up new ideas. It is a shame.
I ask Deputy Howlin to allow the Taoiseach to reply.
On a point of order—
The Chair cannot allow a situation to continue where any Member of the House, including the Taoiseach, is frustrated from putting the reply on the record.
Is it something—
Allow the Taoiseach without interruption. Does Deputy Howlin not accept that the Taoiseach is entitled to the courtesy of being allowed put his reply on the record without interruption?
Are you questioning me now, a Cheann Comhairle?
Does the Deputy not accept that the Taoiseach should be allowed to reply without interruption? He does not seem to accept it.
The Taoiseach is perfectly entitled to it, but to read out—
I ask the Deputy to allow him to put his reply on the record.
Will the Chair allow me to answer or does he want cross-examination? If the Taoiseach is reading the Long Title of a Bill with which he does not intend to proceed, it is wasting the time of the House.
The Deputy wants to ask the question but he does not want to hear the answer.
The Taoiseach is entitled to put his reply on the record of the House.
I listened attentively to what the Deputy said. I gave him the answer previously. As I understand it Deputy Ryan was saying why the answer I gave him two weeks ago should be reviewed. He knows the answer I gave him in which I said the policy was under review. I will communicate what the Deputy has said to the Minister.
May I make a brief supplementary on that point?
We cannot have a discussion on it. The Deputy will have to find another way of raising it. I call Deputy Quinn.
A Cheann Comhairle, you said every Deputy is entitled to make his point.
Sorry, the Deputy is not entitled on the Order of Business to have a debate.
This is about legislation.
The Deputy asked the Taoiseach about legislation and he replied. We cannot have a Question Time on it.
Through a series of questions I have discovered that this legislation is not proceeding. All I want to say is that it should proceed—
The Deputy is not entitled to say that at this stage. He will have to find another way of raising it. Members of the House cannot get up and give their opinion on every Bill as we would be here until midnight.
It is outrageous. That is what we are here for.
What is the purpose of the House if we cannot discuss proposed legislation?
If the Deputy has a problem with Standing Order 26 I suggest he call to the office of the Ceann Comhairle. I call Deputy Quinn.
May I ask the Taoiseach, in view of the ongoing difficulties relating to access to uplands and hillwalking generally in this country and its impact on tourism, if legislation is contemplated to deal with these complex issues? If that legislation is planned, will he indicate whether the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs or the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will have responsibility for it?
To the best of my knowledge no legislation is proposed but I will check the matter for Deputy Quinn.
I wish to ask about two Bills in the transport area. Yesterday, the Minister for Transport announced his intention to establish a special traffic corp within a matter of months. What is the legislation which will provide for such a service and when are we likely to see it? What are the Minister's plans for the future of CIE given that he is reported in the media to be bringing proposals to Cabinet within the next few weeks?
Is legislation promised?
May I finish my question, please? May I ask about the transport companies Bill which is to provide for changes to CIE? The list of proposed legislation states that the transport (companies) Bill is expected some time in 2004. Does the Taoiseach expect to keep to that timetable, or is it likely the legislation will be brought forward to this year in line with what the Minister has stated?
I provided an answer to the first question two weeks ago. No legislation is promised, but the Minister made a speech on the matter and called for discussions.
Can the Taoiseach confirm that there is legislation?
Can the Deputy allow the Taoiseach to answer the question?
Preliminary work has been done on the draft heads of the transport (companies) Bill which will establish Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann as separate and autonomous companies. The heads of the Bill are expected in 2004. I have no update on the matter at this stage.
I ask the Taoiseach to confirm if legislation will be needed for a traffic corps.
That does not arise. I suggest the Deputy submits a question. The Taoiseach answered the question and stated that no legislation was promised.
Will legislation be required or is it a meaningless press statement?
The Deputy should submit a question.
Will the Minister for Transport divert his press section to the traffic corps?
Will the Taoiseach provide Government time to debate the industrial dispute at the Department of Agriculture and Food? A motion on the matter is listed in today's Order Paper as No. 58a.
No. 58a is Private Members' business.
Will Government time be provided?
Now that the Minister for Finance has successfully attracted more women to the workforce through the individualisation of taxation, can the Taoiseach tell me if and when changes will be made to the parental leave Bill which is to be brought before the House? If we are to insist that women join the work force, we must ensure they are protected.
We cannot discuss the content of the legislation.
We must ensure they have sufficient time to spend with their families.
Did the Deputy say the parental leave Bill was before the House?
It is on the Taoiseach's list of promised legislation.
The Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill is due to come before the House, but the Minister for Finance is not bringing it forward.
I might not have made myself clear.
The Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill is due this year.
The Minister for Finance has been so successful in getting women out to work that he must address the matter.
I played a Fianna Fáil backbencher in the "No Tears" documentary, in which there was much more decent debate than here. Given the Government's cynical and shocking delay in the publication of the education for persons with disabilities Bill—
The Deputy will never get to his point. I call Deputy Gilmore.
With respect, that is not my question. Allow me to continue. The Bill will not go through all Stages until October and the Taoiseach has stated that the disability Bill will not come before the House until it is dealt with. Can the Taoiseach state whether it will be next January or later before the disability Bill will finally come before the House?
The matter was dealt with yesterday and this morning.
It needs to be dealt with every day.
When will Second Stage of the residential tenancy Bill be taken in this House? I note that what was the Department of the Environment and Local Government has been renamed the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which is ironic given the abolition of Dúchas. It is usual when there are major changes like this in a Department to introduce legislation or, at the very least, for the Taoiseach to make an announcement in the House explaining how responsibilities are to be allocated. Language heritage is the responsibility of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, cultural heritage is the responsibility of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, the management of heritage sites has become again the responsibility of the Office of Public Works and Dúchas has been abolished.
The Deputy has made his point.
When will there be an announcement or a statement in the House outlining the responsibilities of the so-called Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government?
I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.
It is a matter for the Order of Business.
That is enough.
These matters are normally dealt with by announcement or legislation. I wish to know when the Taoiseach will inform the House as to the new responsibilities of this Department.
Regarding the first question, I hope the Bill can start before the summer recess.
Only start?
It is unlikely to be finished before the summer recess.
Why not?
We have already had—
We have been waiting for three years.
We have waited for about 20 years while successive Governments did nothing about it. This Government did something.
That is not true.
If Deputies do not maintain order, we will move on to the next business.
I repeat that it is not true. The Taoiseach is misleading the House. He broke it up out of sheer vindictiveness and philistinism.
We will move to No. 20 if Deputies do not allow the Taoiseach to answer questions. Allow the Taoiseach to speak.
On a point of order, which I address to Deputy Michael Higgins, I was answering Deputy Gilmore's first question on the residential tenancy Bill. I was not referring to the Bill the Deputy is talking about.
I was talking about heritage.
I know, but I was answering Deputy Gilmore's first question.
Deputies should allow the Taoiseach to answer the question.
If Deputy Michael Higgins has worked out what he is talking about, I wish to inform him that I hope to start the first Bill and that a question should be put down for the Minister regarding the second.
I know what I am talking about and I know why the Taoiseach abolished culture.
I ask Deputy Michael Higgins to allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption. The Chair will not allow a situation in which the Taoiseach or any other Member who stands when called on is interrupted.
That is not my intention. I am correcting the record.
I have a number of inquiries about promised legislation. The first refers to the health (complaints) Bill to address the large number of complaints against the health services.
That was dealt with yesterday.
As an indication of its urgency, I raise it again today. There is a need for a drug offenders Bill due to the large and growing number of drug offenders. There is a requirement for the courts and civil liability Bill to improve the running of the courts and family law services and to address the backlogs there. The last Bill to which I refer is the animal health Bill which might generate a debate on agriculture and the obvious absence from the House for some considerable time of the Minister for Agriculture and Food and his ministerial colleagues. Maybe the House should send out an SOS to try to find out where the Minister is as many people think he has left the country.
The Deputy has made his point.
Many people think he has left and sought asylum elsewhere.
The health (complaints) Bill will come before the House next year. It is not possible to give a date regarding the courts and civil liability Bill. The animal health Bill will be taken this year.
From what is undoubtedly the longest list of promised legislation we have seen from this and the previous Government, I refer to the ground rent Bill. Will the Taoiseach outline what consultation is taking place with the Attorney General or other legal body to demonstrate progress made in this regard?
I cannot give the Deputy a date. If he wishes to find out what consultation has taken place, he should table a question.
And while he is at it, he should drain the Shannon.
Deputy Woods does not answer questions any more.
I understand that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is unable to take oral questions this afternoon and may not be available to take the Fisheries Bill tomorrow. The Minister bailed out of a four hour discussion of his Department's Estimates yesterday.
Does the Deputy have an appropriate question?
Has the Taoiseach given any thought to promoting the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, to the Cabinet? He answers the questions.
The Minister is dealing with the Irish Box.