Yesterday I raised in the House the prospect of a successful conclusion to the discussions and negotiations in so far as the Good Friday Agreement and the restoration of the Assembly in Northern Ireland are concerned. In doing so I wished the Taoiseach and his Ministers well in the negotiations. Deputies will recall that last autumn we were tantalisingly close to completion of a successful series of negotiations. Subsequently, when the matter became public knowledge earlier this year, it transpired that one of the issues apparently under discussion was the prospect of the early release of the killers of the late Detective Garda Jerry McCabe. At the time this caused public outrage throughout the Twenty-six Counties. It has been suggested that there is now a similar situation. In view of the guarantees given by the Government, both by the Taoiseach and the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, will the Taoiseach confirm one way or the other whether this matter is under discussion or part of any outstanding matter to be dealt with?
Leaders’ Questions.
On the general point, the discussions will continue for the next few days. I stated yesterday that I thought it would be a few days as there were still a number of difficult issues that we had to deal with. On the specific question, in the discussions on Northern Ireland for the past five years the release of prisoners has been a major issue. At the time of the Good Friday Agreement we had a large number of prisoners, some of whom were released in 1998 and the remainder in 1999.
In regard to the murder of Jerry McCabe and the injuring of Ben O'Sullivan, we took the view that the prisoners would not be released — it is exactly five years since we said they would not be released — under the Good Friday Agreement. In the subsequent discussions in March last year and one year ago, it was clear that if we were to get to a position where we would have decommissioning of IRA arms held by the IRA leadership in GHQ and there would be instructions to IRA volunteers, the Government, as part of a comprehensive agreement, would give consideration to the early release of the prisoners, not under the Good Friday Agreement but under the earlier Acts, of which I think two are involved. That is still the position of the Government. I have confirmed this a number of times. I know the difficulties involved and that we would have to engage in discussions with the families, which we would do, and the Garda representative body. It is still an outstanding issue. To be frank and open — this is the place to say it — it is my belief that if we are to have a comprehensive agreement, this is an issue that will have to be part of the final deal.
The Taoiseach stated in February 1999:
I have continually and unambiguously made clear since Good Friday, 10 April 1998, that any reference by the Sinn Féin negotiators regarding the release of the late Jerry McCabe's murderers could not be considered ... At no time was anyone given any comfort about these people and neither will they be.
Am I to understand the Taoiseach is confirming that, in the context of a successful conclusion to the discussions which are at a sensitive stage, the killers of the late Detective Garda McCabe will be given early release?
Obviously, the Government would have to have consultations with the families, their representatives and those of the Garda. This is not a question on which I want to have ambiguity. If we are to have a comprehensive deal, this matter will be part of it and I would recommend that that be the case. I do not see how we will be able to deal with it otherwise.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the up-to-date position on Aer Lingus, the chairman of which resigned in July. I understand its acting chairman is due to resign on 3 January. The Taoiseach's dithering on policy and the way forward for Aer Lingus provoked the resignation of the chief executive and his two chief officers, including the chief financial officer. The chairman has resigned and the acting chairman is about to go. So far the Government's only response has been the Taoiseach's outburst in the House which served to undermine value in the company. When is it proposed to appoint a chairman to Aer Lingus? Is it not the case that until the Government fixes on a firm policy in terms of the future direction and ownership of the company, it will not be possible to find a quality chief executive or put an appropriate chairman in place? When will an announcement be made about the impending resignation of the acting chairman? Has a new chairman been found? Has the Government decided the future ownership of Aer Lingus and the future direction of that important company?
I have to correct the Deputy. The last chairman, Mr. Tom Mulcahy, resigned from Aer Lingus due to issues unrelated to the company. To put it in that light is a total misrepresentation of the facts. The current chairman, which is doing a good job, took over when Mr. Mulcahy felt it was important to resign because of unrelated matters. I still do not understand the motives for those who have recently resigned. They knew exactly the position of the Government. It was not a question of anyone not making decisions. The only issue we took up with them was the question of an MBO. There was no other issue or request.
The board of Aer Lingus met on Monday. It decided to begin the process of recruitment of a new chief executive by establishing a sub-committee comprised of the acting chairman and two other non-executive directors. It is charged with identifying and recommending the appointment of a replacement chief executive to the board. It also approved a challenging budget for next year, which is totally consistent with the implementation of the company's business plan. I do not deal with the day to day issues of Aer Lingus, but I completely support the business plan. The Cabinet sub-committee established to examine the issues relating to the future ownership of Aer Lingus had a meeting last week. It considered and published the Goldman Sachs report on the airline. It was agreed that a decision on the future ownership would be made before Christmas, in the interests of the airline and its stakeholders. We will have a meeting again on 9 December and some work is being undertaken by the Minister prior to that. Prior to any final Government decision, there will be engagement between the Department of Transport and the social partners on the future of Aer Lingus. The Cabinet sub-committee accepts that to do nothing is not an option, given the nature of the aviation sector internationally. We will make those decisions as soon as possible. We are dealing with an important State company and we will not be bounced into any decision. Far from dithering, we have turned around a company that was in major difficulty after 11 September 2001——
Allow the Taoiseach without interruption.
We worked with the management to turn the company around. Against what has happened internationally in aviation, Aer Lingus stands out like no other. We are glad that it has done that. That is the second time that we have had to do that in a decade.
Before the Taoiseach got to his scripted reply, which usually consists of a description of the problem and not an answer to the questions raised on this side of the House, he spent the first part of his answer telling me that Mr. Tom Mulcahy resigned for reasons that had nothing to do with Aer Lingus. I never said why Mr. Mulcahy resigned. I made no reference to the circumstances that caused him to resign. The Taoiseach answered a question that I did not ask and refuses the questions that I asked. The fact is that the Taoiseach was quite prepared to put the electoral fortunes of Fianna Fáil in north Dublin and in the Shannon region before the fortunes of the national airline. That is the issue. Having dug this hole for himself, having provoked the resignation of the chief executive and the senior management, what is the Taoiseach doing about it? It must be the final galling experience for Mr. Willie Walsh, whatever one thinks about the direction he was leading the company, to hear the Taoiseach seeking to claim credit for what he did in turning the company around with the workers, having berated him last week. The Taoiseach says he has nothing to do with the day to day business of Aer Lingus yet he claims that his Government has turned it around again. The workers and the management turned it around. The Taoiseach provoked the resignations purely for Inchydoney reasons and the electoral fortunes of Fianna Fáil. Now we are left without a chairman, an acting chairman, a chief executive and a chief financial officer. The national airline has no chief pilot and no chief navigator. The Taoiseach is still dithering and answering questions that he was not asked.
I might have misheard the Deputy saying that we had a former chairman leaving. Only one former chairman left, namely Mr. Mulcahy. If he was not referring to Mr. Mulcahy, I am not sure to whom he was referring. I heard him state that the former chairman had left and the former chairman was Mr. Mulcahy who left for a reason——
Answer the question.
The Deputy should not ask a question when he does not like the answer.
Come on, be serious.
When I say that we had turned it around, I am referring to the collective efforts of this Government. Following 11 September 2001, Aer Lingus was in a total spin as was every other airline, it took the efforts——
This sounds like total spin to me.
——of Mr. Mulcahy and others who were in Government buildings time and again to seek assistance. I did not handle that. The then Minister of Transport, Deputy Brennan, successfully helped them to turn it around.
His fellow socialist.
Allow the Taoiseach without interruption please.
The Taoiseach is entitled to exactly the same courtesy as every other Member in this House. Deputy Rabbitte was allowed to ask his question without interruption and the Chair will see to it that the Taoiseach is afforded the same courtesy.
The Opposition is moving to the right.
It is quite clear where we now stand.
It is quite clear the Taoiseach gave Deputy Brennan and Mr. Willie Walsh——
The Deputy had his time.
The Deputy must allow the Taoiseach without interruption.
They have got their instructions not to let me answer. It is quite clear what line Deputy Rabbitte is taking. He really does not care two damns about the management, the staff or the future of Aer Lingus, which is doing quite well.
I beg your pardon.
The Deputy is now defending the person who put forward the management buy-out, which was the worst of all options for Aer Lingus.
The Government has supported them all the way.
That is the defence. The Government was not going to go down that route. It will make the right decisions for Aer Lingus and for the management and staff.
These acting lessons are bad for the Taoiseach. He should go to the Gaiety Theatre to take some more.
We will not be dictated by anything other than the best interests of the company. The Labour Party loves to raise party political issues by calling meetings in the hangers and as soon as they are over, it does sweet nothing. We will not do that on this side of the House.
While the Minister for Finance is preparing for the annual budget ritual this afternoon, people in the real world are continuing to suffer as a consequence of the failed policies of this Administration. Is the Taoiseach aware, despite all the hype and commitments made by the newly appointed Minister for Health and Children, that our accident and emergency units are still in crisis? The Minister visited New York recently to appraise herself of private hospital care in that city. Will the Taoiseach visit Tallaght Hospital with the Minister? Yesterday, some 59 patients at the hospital were kept on trolleys, reclining chairs and couches. An accident victim with suspected spinal injuries was kept on a spinal board in an ambulance because no trolley, let alone a bed, was available for that victim to be brought in for full triage attention. Will the Taoiseach join with me in commending those nurses who are at the coal-face of what is a health delivery system in chaos? These are the people we depend on most to expose the reality with which they and patients must contend daily. Statistics revealed yesterday by the Irish Nurses Organisation showed 175 patients kept on trolleys, reclining chairs and couches at different hospitals. The organisation described the ongoing crisis as almost akin to Third World conditions. It attributes this to either an underfunding of the health system or a misdirection of funding, which the Taoiseach will probably remind me is the largest ever provided.
Will the Taoiseach correct the record of the House where a number of weeks ago the Minister for Health and Children, in response to a question from another Deputy, indicated a bed was always a bed in terms of statistics? Documentation from her own Department shows couches, reclining chairs and trolleys have all been counted as beds in statistics offered by both the Minister and Taoiseach. The 59 patients on trolleys in Tallaght Hospital were most likely included in the statistics which showed an increase of 284 day beds over the past three years. Will the Taoiseach undertake to ensure statistics provided with regard to health services are accurate and honest and reflect reality, and are not couched in such a way as to misinform and confuse?
The Deputy asked about the Estimates process for this year and next year. The problems of accident and emergency departments are those experienced by the entire health service. Actions spelt out by the Tánaiste are designed as a package to take a whole system approach to improving patients' experience of health care, in particular A&E services. There will be an additional €70 million in current expenditure, a large part of which will go to staff, for which resources are required, mainly in nursing. Some actions are aimed at minimising the need for people to go to A&E by accessing care from medical professionals and nurses in stand-down facilities. Other actions are designed to free up hospital beds for people awaiting admission. The development and expansion of minor injury units, chest pain clinics and respiratory units in hospitals to relieve pressures in A&E departments, the provision of a second MRI centre in Beaumont Hospital, and the provision of acute medical and non-surgical units at Tallaght, St. Vincent's and Beaumont Hospitals were all announced ten days ago. High-dependency patients will be transferred to suitable private nursing home care. An increase in the number of private nursing home beds to alleviate pressures on acute hospitals is also underway. Negotiations are taking place with the private sector to meet the annual needs of 500 people for intermediate care for up to six weeks. These are older people awaiting discharge to nursing home care or a return to their own home with appropriate support. There is also a provision for more out-of-hours GP services in order to minimise the need for people to go to A&E departments. These are all the initiatives we have resourced, and they will take effect from now and through 2005.
With regard to the situation at Tallaght Hospital yesterday, I have been informed that management at the hospital cancelled elective operations in line with agreed policies to alleviate current pressures in A&E. The regional health authority reported the number of patients awaiting admission to the hospital this morning was 25. It had to work to get the figure down to that amount. A new medical unit at Tallaght Hospital is one of the initiatives which will help. Funding has been provided to facilitate short and medium term solutions to problems associated with A&E. There is no doubt pressures exist. Measures announced by the Tánaiste less than two weeks ago will hopefully help alleviate them.
The Taoiseach has not indicated whether he will visit Tallaght Hospital in conjunction with the Minister for Health and Children. I urge him to do so. Will the Taoiseach also instruct that statistics offered with regard to the health care system reflect the truthful position and the reality people experience? When we ask for statistics regarding bed provision, that is what we should get. A bed is a bed, not a trolley, a reclining chair or a couch. Is the Taoiseach aware that despite repeated questions to the Minister and the Department we are unable to establish the number of people seeking first consultation for elective surgery and procedures? Allegedly there are no statistics available from the Department showing the number of people trying to get on waiting lists. We have waiting list figures, but countless thousands of people are unable to get on waiting lists and therefore are not included in statistics. This is an absolute disgrace. The Taoiseach must face reality and reflect it. He must ensure Government spokespersons, in particular the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, offer the real picture in truthful statistics that represent what nurses experience at the coal face and people suffer daily in hospitals.
I have visited Tallaght Hospital many times officially and privately to visit people. I am familiar with the hospital, and continue to visit. I know the Tánaiste is extremely familiar with the hospital for many reasons, both privately and officially.
There are about 1.25 million attendances at A&E departments each year, which is an enormous amount. We have provided for a large amount of staff and back-up facilities, but still there are major problems. Many of our initiatives this year and over the past few years are helping alleviate these, but they are not enough. There are issues with regard to stand down bed facilities. Many cities, in particular Dublin, do not have out of hours GP services, which means more pressure on A&E departments. The Tánaiste announced a range of measures to provide the service. Two issues are vitally important with regard to this problem. We have provided staff, nurses and resources, but hospitals fill up. Out of hours services are extremely important as is providing stand down beds. These are two key measures. On top of the resources provided every year for the past number of years, we have endeavoured to provide significant resources for these two areas. We also need the co-operation of GPs to help get the out of hours service up and running as quickly as possible.