Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 Jun 2006

Vol. 622 No. 3

Leaders’ Questions.

Mr. Kenny

These are interesting times in Irish politics. Last week I asked the Tánaiste if there was any trouble in Paradise. I remind the Taoiseach that today is the feast day of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. It might be a good idea for him to start lighting candles on his side of the House because it seems that with every passing day this Government needs more help from some quarter.

A few weeks ago the Taoiseach told Dr. Bird on RTE that he would be happy to have his Government benchmarked against the performances of other Governments. He should be careful about what he wishes for because he has got it with a vengeance in the Euro Health Consumer Index report in which, despite this being the second richest country in Europe, it comes in as second last on health care rankings, behind Latvia, Slovenia, Estonia, Hungary and the Czech Republic. Only Lithuania performed more poorly than we did. On the survey's bang for the buck score card this country finished last of 26 and that report showed up rampant MRSA infection in hospitals, bad scores for infant deaths, and very bleak medical outcomes.

That is a collective failure of the Taoiseach's Government which, when combined with his previous Government, will have been in office almost ten years next year. The Taoiseach has appointed three Ministers for Health and Children, one as bad as the other. Is it any wonder that today the Tánaiste on national radio distanced herself from her predecessors by saying that for the first time in many years decisions are being made on the basis of what is best for patients? That is a ringing endorsement of the former Ministers in the Department of Health and Children, Deputies Cowen and Martin. It is good to see that Cabinet collegiality is alive and I suppose, kicking.

Mr. Allen

Kicking is right.

Mr. Kenny

Health is not the only area in crisis because the Central Statistics Office figures released today show that murder, rape and assaults are up by one third between 2000 and 2005. Does the Taoiseach not accept that the reports of increasing murder rates etc. are not only an indictment of the Government's performance but also an indication it is in freefall from chaos to chaos? Does he agree it is perhaps time for him to move over and let the people have their say?

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

I said to Dr. Bird — that is not what I usually call him — that I would be glad for our resources, our economy and where we are going to be benchmarked as part of an independent assessment. I do not consider the Euro Health Consumer Index 2006, which was produced by a private organisation that is obviously doing its best with limited resources, according to what it has said——

Mr. McGinley

Shoot the messenger.

The Taoiseach

No, I think it has been doing its best. I thought Deputy Kenny made some good points. I remind him that a great deal of the data used in the survey related to 1997, when he was in Government.

Mr. Timmins

The Taoiseach is saying we are responsible.

Mr. Neville

He might as well go back to 1916.

Mr. F. McGrath

Is it much better now?

The Taoiseach

According to the report, a great deal of the data on which it is based dates from 1997.

Mr. English

It uses 2004 data.

The Taoiseach

I can benchmark where we were in 1997 with where we are now.

Mr. McGinley

The Taoiseach should admit that we have been relegated.

The Taoiseach

I am simply reminding the House of what the report states.

Mr. Howlin

The Taoiseach is afraid to look at the data.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

Mr. Howlin

The report uses current information.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Kenny is entitled to hear the Taoiseach's response.

The Taoiseach

The survey states that its conclusions should be considered "with great care". It makes it clear that one part of its analysis is "an academic exercise" and "certainly lacks scientific support". That is what it says. Those who compiled the report did not make any contact with the permanent representatives in Brussels on the matter. The Department of Health and Children has been unable so far to find any evidence of requests for information.

Mr. Crawford

The Taoiseach's team will not find the same.

The Taoiseach

In other words, a report on our health service was written without any information whatsoever.

Mr. Howlin

There was nobody answering the telephone that day.

The Taoiseach

The report makes it clear that cross-national comparisons of health care systems, outcomes and delivery are notoriously difficult and are based on standardised statistical indications and data. The survey is based in part on published data from international organisations, such as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the World Health Organisation, between 1997 and 2002. That data is benchmarked against up-to-date data from other countries. For example, the data used in respect of the Netherlands is from 2005. I acknowledge that the organisation which produced the report did its best, but it did not take account of the most recent comprehensive survey of patients' views, which was conducted in 2004. Some 4,820 patients responded to that survey, which was conducted by the Irish Society for Quality and Safety in Health Care. The survey found that nine out of ten patients would return to the same hospital for treatment and would recommend that hospital to a friend.

Ms Burton

That is just one survey.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy does not want the truth.

The Taoiseach

Nine out of ten patients were satisfied with the level of privacy and confidentiality they received and nine out of ten were satisfied with the manner in which their diagnosis had been communicated and found that information easy to understand.

Mr. Crawford

Were any of them from Monaghan?

Mr. Howlin

There is no problem at all, according to the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

Some 95% of patients felt they had been treated with dignity and respect.

Mr. Quinn

Those results are Ceaucescu-like.

The Taoiseach

The report mentioned by Deputy Kenny refers to none of that. It takes no account of life expectancy, which is the most basic indicator of health. People in Ireland are living longer.

Mr. McGinley

They are not living for much longer.

The Taoiseach

Life expectancy increased from 75 years to 78 years between 1990 and 2002.

Ms McManus

That is quite low.

The Taoiseach

It is in line with increases in every developed country. The part of the Euro Health Consumer Index report that relates to general practitioner waiting times makes a blanket statement that patients in Ireland do not enjoy same-day services from family doctors. That is simply wrong. Irish patients are able to avail of GP services — over 42% of them have medical cards or GP medical cards. If the report in question gets something as basic as that so fundamentally wrong, I do not know why I am here answering about it at all. I have to do that because that is what I am paid to do. General practitioners in every parish and community in Ireland see their patients on a same-day basis on most days of the year.

Mr. Stagg

Where did the Taoiseach get the figure of 42% of people having medical cards?

Mr. Howlin

It is more like 30%.

Mr. D. Ahern

Where are the Deputies getting their figures from?

The Taoiseach

On the issue of direct access to specialist care consultants, the reports states it is not accepted internationally that the best way to organise patient care is for patients to go straight to consultants without the advice of their family doctors. It is not an accepted mark of quality in health care. The health care needs of the vast bulk of patients can be met through GP care. The practice in this country is that people go to their GPs and then on——

Ms McManus

Many people cannot afford to do that.

The Taoiseach

If our entire health care system is entirely wrong and we should not have GPs at all——

Mr. Howlin

Who said that?

The Taoiseach

If that is the benchmark the Deputies opposite would like me to adopt——

Mr. Stagg

The Taoiseach said 42% of people have medical cards.

Mr. Allen

Dr. Dolittle.

The Taoiseach

I will allow them answer the GPs in such circumstances.

Mr. Howlin

The Taoiseach has lost the plot.

The Taoiseach

I have enough problems getting them to work at night, even when I want to pay them to do so. If others want to tell the GPs they are not necessary, they can go ahead and do that. The Euro Health Consumer Index survey also mentions cancer treatment, but I do not have enough time to go into that in detail. The report misses the point, which is that the huge decrease in——

Ms McManus

What about BreastCheck?

An Ceann Comhairle

I remind Deputy McManus that this is a Fine Gael question. It is not her question.

The Taoiseach

I do not mind answering them all, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy McManus's party will get an opportunity shortly.

Ms McManus

The Ceann Comhairle should tell the Taoiseach to stop provoking me.

Mr. M. Ahern

The Deputy is a closet Fine Gaeler.

The Taoiseach

The report ignores the fact that there has been a decrease in cancer mortality among people under the age of 65. I would like to inform Deputy Kenny, before I answer his second question, that if he wants me to stand over the findings of a few people who slapped a bit of a report together and put it up——

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

If he wants me as Taoiseach to take it seriously, on the basis that someday he might find himself over here answering that kind of stuff, although it is unlikely——

Mr. Timmins

We will be over there shortly.

The Taoiseach

I would not do that. This country's child mortality rate and maternity system, for example, are second to none.

Mr. M. Ahern

It is more negative campaigning.

The Taoiseach

I am happy to stand here and defend our health service against a crowd of geniuses who did not even bother to get facts — that is the point.

Mr. Crawford

What about teamwork?

Mr. Kenny

I am glad to know the Taoiseach realises that people in this country are living longer. I accept that fact, which everybody knows. I asked the Taoiseach to comment on the findings of the Euro Health Consumer Index report and he commented on them. The director who wrote the report said this morning that he asked for information from the Department of Health and Children and the Health Service Executive, but he did not get it. When one looks for information but it is not supplied, one has to wonder whether it is because the Government did not want to make it available.

Mr. F. McGrath

That is right.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach read out the usual litany that he reads out.

The Taoiseach

I gave the facts.

Mr. Kenny

The Government is on the verge of disintegration in some cases.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Taoiseach outlined the truth.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach's comments will not reassure the sweet 16, some of whom are behind him at present.

Mr. M. Ahern

Is that what the Deputy was told to say by his US advisers?

Mr. Kenny

Even though there are 13 subcommittees, it is proposed to establish another subcommittee of backbenchers.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy is waffling.

Mr. Kenny

They know, we know and the country knows that the current expenditure of €13 billion on health is subsidising problems rather than solving them.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Kenny

They know, we know and the country knows that collectively, the Government has been found out. After nine and a half years in office, is the Taoiseach not prepared to admit there is a sense of desperation among Fianna Fáil Deputies who are knocking on doors? Those who are afraid to knock on doors have an egotistical ambition, the likes of which I have never seen before, which is causing chaos within the Government. It is dangerous, chronic and contagious. Will the Taoiseach comment on the Tánaiste's comment earlier today that for the first time in many years, decisions are being taken on the basis of what is best for patients? Can he stand over the decisions taken by his Government when the Ministers, Deputies Cowen and Martin, were responsible for the health portfolio? Were decisions taken under their leadership on the basis of the best interests of patients? The third Minister for Health and Children to be appointed under the Taoiseach's leadership says decisions were not taken on that basis.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time has concluded.

Mr. Kenny

The Ceann Comhairle gave the Taoiseach a very long run.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has been given an equally long run.

Mr. Kenny

I will produce the timings for the Ceann Comhairle if he wishes.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should have asked the Deputy to conclude over a minute ago.

Mr. Kenny

I will finish by saying that we have had some drama, in the week in which the famous Hollywood producer, Aaron Spelling, died. The Taoiseach was forced to do a Mae West with the backbenchers — "why don't you come up sometime and see me?". The Tánaiste opted for Lady Thatcher — "I am not for turning". He who is not present here — the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who does not want to come into this Chamber — turned to the tragic personality of Marilyn Monroe — "all of us are stars and deserve the right to twinkle".

(Interruptions).

Mr. F. McGrath

Deputy McDowell does not want to come to the Chamber.

The Taoiseach

That shows how seriously Deputy Kenny takes his reports. However, I will not go down the same road. There is a lot to be done in the health service and we have reformed much of it.

Mr. Howlin

A lot done all right.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Kenny's point is partly correct because the report stated we have, correctly, abandoned the health board system. I would rather consider the OECD report on health data. While the survey group worked from international data, it obviously picked up on the necessary reform of the outdated system of the health boards which existed for three and a half decades. The Government reformed that system.

Mr. Crawford

It was Fianna Fáil which introduced them first.

The Taoiseach

It took us time to change an old and dated system which originally replaced the local authority-based system. We have amended and centralised the old system into the Health Service Executive. The Government has also made large improvements in the health service along the way. Latest figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre show that national uptake rate for polio vaccination is 91%. This is not a poor performance by international standards. I am not in the House to berate Members but to answer questions. However, the Health Consumer Powerhouse study used figures from 1997. That says where we were in 1997, but I will not go into that.

The survey states, when commenting on financial strains in the French health care system, ranked No. 1, the budget deficits in health care are more or less arbitrary and not significant. It is the first time I have ever read that in a report. No Government or taxpayer would agree that it was a matter of indifference whether health care budgets are managed profitably. I answer questions in the House regularly stating this should be dealt with. The survey used wrong figures for acute beds.

I know the order of these matters. Two reports were published yesterday; only one got the headlines. The OECD report used health data for this year. However, that would not suit the case, so the headlines were all about the 1997-99 figures. According to the OECD's Health Data 2006, published on 26 June, health spending has grown faster than gross domestic product in every OECD country except Finland between 1990 and 2004. The data show that health spending in Ireland accounted for 7.1% of GDP. The average spend across OECD countries was 8.9%. In terms of health spending per capita in 2004, Ireland ranked above the OECD average. The report stated:

Health spending per capita in Ireland grew, in real terms, by an average of 9.1% per year between 1999 and 2004, one of the fastest growth rates of all OECD countries and significantly higher than the OECD average of 5.2% per year.

It acknowledges the large increases and improvements introduced by the Government. Perhaps in the interests of balance, those who only read the one report should read the other significant report.

Mr. Allen

We still have a shambles of a system.

Mr. M. Ahern

The Deputy would know all about it.

Mr. Rabbitte

A Cheann Comhairle——

Mr. Allen

I do.

Mr. M. Ahern

I am sure he does.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow Deputy Rabbitte without interruption.

Mr. Rabbitte

I want to ask the Taoiseach about the apparent disintegration of the Government and what signal that sends out to those hard-working families who are on the road at 6.30 a.m. How can those people expect a divided, dysfunctional and out of touch——

Mr. M. Ahern

Labour Party.

Mr. Rabbitte

——Government in which Ministers, even in the same party, will not talk to each other and whose backbenchers are in revolt, to address the issues of concern to them?

Mr. M. Ahern

What about the 1980s?

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, want to make his maiden speech at this juncture? If he wants to make an intervention, he should make it properly and I will give way to him.

Mr. M. Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte is just showing his ignorance. I made my maiden speech in this House long before he made his.

Mr. F. McGrath

Another dissident emerges from the backbenches.

Mr. M. Ahern

To which party does Deputy Finian McGrath belong?

Mr. Rabbitte

People are interested in whether their children will get a place in school this autumn. They are concerned about class sizes or their mother being left on a hospital trolley. They are concerned about the drugs misuse epidemic, now worse than it was when Veronica Guerin was murdered. They are concerned about energy resources, spiralling house prices, inflation, interest rates, neighbourhood safety, anti-social behaviour and gangland killings. How can a Government, in such disarray for the past month, address these issues? In The Irish Times this morning, I read the headline, “Ahern set to back new FF backbench group”. I thought there were only 16 rebels but apparently there are 17.

Mr. F. McGrath

And they have the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, now.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach will now be a member of the back bench committee in revolt. Just because we have enjoyed more than a dozen years of economic growth, the Taoiseach is of the view no problems need be attended to. Of course, we have enjoyed a dozen years of growth, but we have serious problems that must be confronted. Judging from the Taoiseach's response to Deputy Kenny, his view of the authors of the report that states Ireland is second only in health services to Lithuania is that they are talking rubbish and we can dismiss it. It only demonstrates the extent to which the Taoiseach is out of touch.

Ms McManus

Hear, hear.

Mr. Rabbitte

Half of what the Taoiseach told Deputy Kenny about medical cards and other issues is not in accordance with the facts. To dismiss the authors of a report that claims the health service is second only to Lithuania and argue they are talking through their hats shows the Government is simply out of touch, especially when one considers the large amounts of money pumped into the system after nine years of this Government.

If that is the Taoiseach's conviction, will he seek a renewal of his mandate? Will he instead limp into the summer recess with the Government in disarray? Government partners are not talking to each other, party seniors describe their Ministers as dysfunctional, worsening problems need to be attended to and yet the Taoiseach tells the House breezily that people are living longer. I suppose he will claim credit for that too. They are certainly living longer on trolleys.

The Taoiseach

I hope I get the same attention as my colleagues have given to Deputy Rabbitte.

Ms Enright

The Taoiseach certainly will.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Rabbitte is dead right; people are concerned about the economy. They are heartened to see the country has had an annual growth rate of 6% and 7% over a series of years. They are heartened that employment continues to grow, taxes have been reduced, much resources have gone into building new hospitals and improving the education services at first, second and third level. They are heartened at the rate of house-building and the improvement in the standards of our energy resources sustainability. They are, however, concerned that this will all change, especially if Deputy Rabbitte gets his hands on power.

Mr. M. Ahern

Hear, hear — like the last time he was in power.

The Taoiseach

I am concerned about that too.

Mr. Howlin

This is like Dr. Strangelove.

The Taoiseach

I am not prepared to consider a report that makes blatant errors about the health service. As I have already said, the report states a general practitioner service does not exist. The survey asked whether a patient can have a same day service from their family doctor. To this the survey stated in Ireland it is a blanket "no". That is wrong. We have a GP service that will see patients on a same-day basis.

I have given the facts from people working in Irish hospitals and not those from an academic study in Sweden. While patients have said they are happy with services and hospitals, they are not with accident and emergency services. We have addressed this issue and invested significant resources in resolving it. Let us not take from the success in reducing waiting times for operations, which had dramatically fallen in 2002 from what they were in 1997.

Mr. English

People are on waiting lists for waiting lists.

The Taoiseach

It is wrong for the survey to conclude that Ireland has a severe waiting lists problems. We do not have one.

Deputies

We do have a problem.

The Taoiseach

We have made substantial progress.

Mr. English

People are waiting 15 months for treatment. The Taoiseach is telling lies.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must withdraw the word "lies".

Mr. English

I will not.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will withdraw the word or leave the House.

Mr. D. Ahern

It is a wonder he is in the House at all.

Mr. English

Only if the Taoiseach will clarify that people are waiting months on waiting lists.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must withdraw the word unequivocally or he will leave the House.

Mr. English

The Taoiseach is using mistruths. I withdraw the word "lies". People are on waiting lists for operations for 16 months.

Mr. Durkan

They are waiting three years in some areas.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to respond.

The Taoiseach

I wish to answer Deputy Rabbitte. In 1997 three quarters of adults waiting for cardiac surgery waited for well over a year. Deputy Rabbitte was at the Cabinet table when that was allowed to happen. Matters got worse in the period in which the Deputy was at the Cabinet table. The waiting time for coronary——

Mr. Durkan

That was ten years ago.

The Taoiseach

Please let me answer Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Durkan

This is a history lesson.

The Taoiseach

The waiting time for a coronary angiogram is now no more than two months. A total of 11% of people wait no more than a year for cardiac thoracic surgery and most patients wait for only a few months. The number of patients waiting for cancer treatment is also down. I accept there are problems and difficulties. I am aware we have problems with gangland killings in some areas where drug dealers are fighting each other for territory and for drugs.

Mr. Stagg

People are afraid to open their front doors.

The Taoiseach

I commend the Garda for their daily successes in dealing with these issues. The Government is investing significant effort and resources in this area. I will not go into all the statistics of where that puts us internationally. We are working on these issues. I will not take it from Deputy Rabbitte that a Government I lead and colleagues and backbenchers who work extraordinarily hard are out of touch.

Mr. D. Ahern

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

This Government is determined to work to complete its mandate to continue to build a successful country. The Deputy may have an alternative strategy, but the only thing I know about the Mullingar strategy is that the Government has bypassed Mullingar in terms of roads and the people will do the same with the Deputy's policies.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Rabbitte had his Sunday outing last Sunday, which I was glad to see, but it showed the huge contradictions on the age of consent. Perhaps he will tell the people about some of these issues. In the meantime the Government will deal with party activities in a structured, organised way unlike the heavy-handed way the Deputy dealt with some issues in the past in terms of disciplining party activities. The Tánaiste and I are well capable of dealing with these issues in a democratic and open manner. Deputy Rabbitte will have to wait a year to see what will happen in a democratic election, and in the meantime I will deal with factual situations, not Deputy Rabbitte's rant.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Ms Burton

We are losing our temper.

Mr. Durkan

Are they all upset over there?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte should be allowed to speak without interruption.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach needs a rest. He instanced decisions taken when I was at the Cabinet table, but I remind him that last week he eulogised a man with whom he shared the Cabinet table, who shut 22 hospitals between 1987 and 1989. I am not sure what a stroll down memory lane does to address the issues confronting people today. The Taoiseach is fearful about what will happen to the country when I get my hands on the levers of power, but the only thing about which he is really fearful is that he will not be in there with me.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I think the Taoiseach said, "if".

Mr. Durkan

End of round two.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte should be allowed to speak without interruption, please.

Mr. Rabbitte

We will leave the hyena laughs out of it for the moment. I will return to the issues about which the backbenchers are concerned. It is clear that they are the same issues I have been raising in this House, which, according to their spokesman, they bring to parliamentary party meetings and, to quote him: "they never get any further". Now the Taoiseach is trying to tell us he welcomes this revolt on the backbenches and that he will talk to them about what kind of committee they will put in place.

Meanwhile, as Mr. Haughey said, this is the worst Government in the history of the State. He said it cannot do anything right. To bear out Mr. Haughey, today we read that, for example, the Government cannot even pay the refunds to people wrongly charged in nursing homes. It turns out that it was thought the job could be outsourced to India. Everybody knows that data protection laws apply.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time has concluded.

Mr. Rabbitte

Everybody knows that the outsourcing of such a job must be certified by the European Commission. Now the Government finds it cannot make the payments and it must go back to the drawing board. The Government appears unable to make any simple decision or do any of the simple things well. When that happens to a Government, the best thing the Taoiseach can do if he is really concerned about the interests of the country, as distinct from his own interests and those of his backbenchers who are running scared right around the country, is go to the people now, not after the summer. We have fallen back to 25th place on all these issues, not just in regard to the health services. We have fallen back similarly in the area of broadband.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time has concluded.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach referred to people who pay taxes. There are many tax compliant citizens who pay more tax than was bargained for in the budget, but what about the abuse of tax avoidance schemes by super-earners? We have been told for the past five or six years that these loopholes would be shut off. They have not been shut off and the situation is worsening. Ordinary people earning ordinary incomes try to make ends meet.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is moving on to a different question. He has already gone almost three minutes over time.

Mr. Rabbitte

They are working longer and harder than they ever did before and they want the Government to sort out the hospitals, deal with criminals, drug abuse, anti-social behaviour and the everyday problems they encounter in their communities. Instead of that we get a squabbling Government where in its deepest crisis the Taoiseach fled the country and left them at sixes and sevens. He talks to me about the age of consent when the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform came into this House on Tuesday and said the age should be 16——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to give way to the Taoiseach.

Mr. Rabbitte

——and on Wednesday, said it should be 17. The Government is at sixes and sevens on every issue of significance that arises. How can the Taoiseach tell me he is not out of touch?

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to give way to the Taoiseach.

Mr. Rabbitte

The people know he is out of touch and he will find out that sooner or later.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy is not happy with the Standing Order governing Leaders' Questions, he should change it.

Mr. English

We cannot change it.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Rabbitte referred to the Government being out of touch and at sixes and sevens, but he covered eight Departments in his questions. I am happy to reply to questions on any Department, as I do every day.

The Deputy's attack on the policy of the former, distinguished member of the Labour Party, Barry Desmond, who introduced the hospital closure system, is uncalled for.

Mr. Durkan

Another history lesson.

Mr. Howlin

Name one.

The Taoiseach

For those Members who were not around in the 1980s, they will remember the announcements that were made. I think that is uncalled for.

Mr. J. Brady

The old Labour Party.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach should be allowed to speak without interruption, please.

The Taoiseach

I am pleased to see Deputy Rabbitte has changed his mind about the former leader of this party, Mr. Haughey.

Mr. D. Ahern

He was in another party, or was it a party?

The Taoiseach

The Health Service Executive signed a contract with KPMG-McCann Fitzgerald to administer the public long-stay charges repayment scheme. The contract sum is based on the number of repayments processed by the company and will be capped at €15 million, exclusive of VAT. The scheme will make repayments to approximately 20,000 patients and the estates of between 40,000 and 50,000 people who were wrongly charged for publicly funded long-stay care. All the EU directives and tender requirements have been complied with by the HSE in the awarding of this contract. As usual, Deputy Rabbitte is entirely wrong.

It is understood from the Health Service Executive that a very small proportion of the work will be undertaken by a company based outside the European Union. This work is of a data entry nature and will not involve the operation of helplines, the provision of information or related matters. All work of this nature will be performed within the State. Deputy Rabbitte is completely wrong.

The Health (Repayments Scheme) Act, which was signed by the President last week, provides a clear legal framework for the system. Priority for repayment will be given to those who are still alive. The repayment system incorporates many features designed to make it more attractive than litigation. The overall cost of the scheme will be €1 billion. Because of the way we are proceeding efficiently within the regulations and supporting the HSE, we will be able to repay about €340 million this year. Deputy Rabbitte obviously believes we should not do that.

Mr. Crawford

It is only one year late.

The Taoiseach

I should not answer questions relating to internal Government party issues but I assure Deputy Rabbitte that both my colleagues and those of the Tánaiste want to successfully implement policies — and continue to do so after the next election — that will ensure this country continues to thrive. This will be done through the creation of jobs, continued strong economic growth and the building of a modern society with modern infrastructure.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach is rattled. It is getting to him.

Mr. F. McGrath

He will need counselling.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach should be allowed to continue without interruption.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Rabbitte has covered six or seven areas. However, we will continue as we have done——

Mr. Rabbitte

I hope the Government does. That is the best news I have heard today.

The Taoiseach

——by providing resources to recruit more gardaí and more teachers. There are now 14,000 gardaí and 12,000 teachers. There is also an extensive programme of capital investment. I assure Deputy Rabbitte that we will continue to work with the same determination we have always shown. Deputy Rabbitte will continue in Opposition, as he has done for most of his political life, growling about these issues. We will continue to work successfully. If Deputy Rabbitte ever gets his way, I will wish him well in it. In the meantime, however, you should acknowledge, as you never do, anything that has successfully been done anywhere. You are by nature, a negative person with negative policies.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Durkan

So speaks the socialist. Alone he stands.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have called Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. D. Ahern

I hope Deputy Joe Higgins has put in his gumshield.

Mr. J. Higgins

That was a great cue from the Taoiseach. This is my last opportunity to raise a query on Leaders' Questions before the recess.

The Taoiseach

Mr. Positive.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Joe Higgins should be allowed to continue without interruption.

Mr. J. Higgins

I wish to demand an overall account of the Taoiseach's stewardship of Irish society. Does he agree that two key headlines this morning aptly sum up his Government's record? Multimillionaires wallow in a tax break bonanza, but in the second-richest country in Europe, we do not need a report from Sweden but only the testimony of pensioners on trolleys to confirm that in terms of our health service we limp in behind all but one of the poorest ex-Stalinist states. Is there any doubt that in the nine years Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats Party have been in Government, they have pursued a right-wing neo-liberal economic agenda, piling wealth on the greediest sections of society — that minority of super-rich and speculators — while working people are on a treadmill of monstrous house prices, commuter gridlock, expensive child care and a devastating lack of infrastructure.

The Government has wasted the fruits of the boom. This is the key issue. It slashes taxes on the super-rich but social and educational infrastructure in areas of booming population increases is stunningly absent. Children with disabilities, for example, are still denied occupational and speech therapy. The Taoiseach has perhaps one year left in Government. What hope is there now of a resolution in any of these critical areas? What hope is there for a focus on the critical problems in the areas of health and infrastructure, in particular, when the past four weeks have shown that this Government has a sense of direction that lies somewhere between "Wanderly Wagon" and the ancient tribes of Israel wandering in the desert, but with no Moses and no burning bush?

The Taoiseach faces a mutiny on the Fianna Fáil ship. When the normally mild-mannered Deputy Johnny Brady begins to exude a whiff of political sulphur, one knows there is trouble.

Mr. J. Brady

I never ended up in Mountjoy.

Mr. J. Higgins

Whatever about Deputy Johnny Brady, several of his colleagues should have ended up there long ago.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. J. Higgins

Deputies McGuinness and Andrews are beginning to adopt the confident air of a Fletcher Christian.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Higgins to conclude.

Mr. J. Higgins

Like the ill-fated Captain Bligh, whose ill temper he certainly displayed last week, the Taoiseach might find himself adrift.

As for his partners in Government, the political dysfunctionals — not our description but that of their friends, the party trustees — the digging match between the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Tánaiste would do justice to two junior GAA teams down the country who have been at each other's throats for years trying to stave off relegation. It is a good job the two casualties were only bruised egos; imagine if the two of them finished up in an accident and emergency unit with only one trolley available. The Taoiseach would need more than one of Deputy Kenny's wet rooms to cope with that situation. Is it any wonder Deputy O'Donnell has a look of post-traumatic stress about her today and that the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, does not know whether to be happy or sad, such is the disarray? The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, meanwhile, has taken to doing police duty in City Hall, policing everywhere but the streets of Dublin and elsewhere.

An Ceann Comhairle

Reluctant as I am to intervene when Deputy Higgins is in full flight, I ask him to give way to the Taoiseach.

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach has one year in which to make changes. Will he indicate three steps he will take in the interests of working-class people to resolve the critical issues to which I referred, particularly in the areas of health and infrastructural deficits?

Mr. Durkan

It is time for the Taoiseach to man the lifeboats.

The Taoiseach

With regard to our policies, I hope we will continue to take people out of consistent poverty. The Deputy asked what we will do for those who are less well-off and are in need of assistance. Although some 65,000 remain in consistent poverty, our policies have removed 250,000 from that category. This is a major achievement.

The accident and emergency service is the one part of the health service in which an enormous amount of work remains to be done. However, a detailed programme of improvements to both services and infrastructure is in place. The Tánaiste and I will work diligently to ensure there is progress in the 14 or 15 hospitals out of about 35 hospitals, where difficulties remain. We are achieving significant improvements but a major challenge remains.

In regard to an area in which Deputy Joe Higgins is particularly interested, we will continue to provide social and affordable housing for vast numbers of people. We have committed ourselves to accommodate 15,000 in coming years. We have also done much to target disadvantage in the area of education through the employment of several thousand additional teachers. We are building large numbers of schools to particularly target areas of disadvantage.

Mr. Durkan

What about pupil-teacher ratios?

The Taoiseach

We will continue to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio, particularly in disadvantaged areas where in many schools it is as low as 12:1 or even 10:1. These are significant areas of improvement. The Deputy asked me for three steps; I apologise for giving him five.

Mr. J. Higgins

I dealt last week with the impossible housing situation for tens of thousands of young working people. That situation remains the same. The Government has failed disastrously on the critical issue of infrastructure for burgeoning communities. Deputy Cowley and I, representing Independent Deputies, were in Laytown in east Meath this morning where 89 children do not have school places for September. Of the 150 children in west Dublin with no school place for September as of last month, some have now been accommodated and places are being sought for the remainder.

The Taoiseach has allowed developers to erect thousands of houses and apartments but he has not made available and insisted on the necessary accompanying infrastructure, whether social, educational or in terms of transport. This is one of the major downfalls of this Government and one of the major issues on which it will be judged by ordinary working people in the next 12 months. The lives of working people, particularly in the commuter belts, cities and bigger towns, have increasingly become a treadmill in an attempt to survive.

As I related last week, that is a legacy of Fianna Fáil Governments and Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Governments, allowing developers to zoom ahead, with super profits and speculation but not requiring the development of critical infrastructure. It is quite incredible that in a community like Tyrrelstown, with 2,000 homes, or Ongar, also with 2,000 homes, there is not even a community centre where the people can meet. There are also problems regarding education and transport.

These are the crucial issues and if the Government has 12 months left in its term, how will it resolve them?

The Taoiseach

I wish to correct Deputy Joe Higgins on one point. We are now spending €7.5 billion on education. In his area five new schools were built recently, dealing with the difficulty——

Mr. J. Higgins

We have had a doubling of the population.

The Taoiseach

There are five new schools dealing with the issue. We have put enormous investment into the area to which the Deputy refers. The Deputy said there was a problem but it has been resolved. His constituency has more new schools than any other in the country. I accept the population has been growing but people have to live somewhere and I do not think the Deputy has an objection to that. Good quality housing, private and public, is being built in the Deputy's constituency.

Under Transport 21, this year we are spending €1.5 billion on roads. Deputy Joe Higgins's area has done extraordinarily well in terms of a lot of the smaller roads.

Mr. J. Higgins

People are spending hours in traffic every day.

The Taoiseach

The position is the same all over the country. In Laytown, where the Deputy was this morning, the number of schools that have been built there is enormous and the school buildings programme——

Ms Enright

That is not true.

The Taoiseach

Under the largest school building programme——

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach should ask the former Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, where the new school is in Laytown.

Mr. Rabbitte

Where? There is no new school in Laytown.

The Taoiseach

We have the largest school building programme in the history of the State——

Mr. J. Higgins

The pupils had to use the parish house for their classes.

Mr. Rabbitte

They do not have a new school.

The Taoiseach

We are spending nearly——

Mr. J. Higgins

There is no new school there.

The Taoiseach

When this Government took office in 1997 approximately six school projects were being built per year. Several hundred schools are now being built. The Deputy should come into the real world. We were spending a handful——

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach should come into the real world. In the real world there are hundreds of children who cannot find school places for next September.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

The Taoiseach

There are not hundreds of children——

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach should come into the real world.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Joe Higgins cannot go five minutes over time with his question and then take up the Taoiseach's time as well.

Mr. J. Higgins

I spoke for less time than anyone else, but that is okay.

The Taoiseach

We are spending money on hundreds of projects and an enormous amount in Deputy Joe Higgins's constituency, and he stands up and says that is not the case. On the latest list, five schools have been built. Enormous resources from the €1.5 billion are being put into transport infrastructure. A sum of €500 million is being spent on education. Such spending is reflected in individual schools in individual communities. At a time when the population is growing, our capital and roads programme is far larger than anything that has ever been undertaken in the history of the State. These are the facts.

In Deputy Joe Higgins's area, a new accident and emergency unit has opened in Blanchardstown hospital. There have been enormous increases in the infrastructure and staffing at that hospital. These developments are helping significantly, as is the capital programme in housing and social and affordable housing. All these initiatives by this Government are helping the Deputy's constituents every day.