It is proposed to take No. 2, Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Bill 2008 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' business shall be No. 45, motion re education cuts, to be taken after the Order of Business and to conclude after 90 minutes, if not previously concluded.
Order of Business.
There are no proposals to be put to the House. I call Deputy Kenny.
I have a number of questions for the Tánaiste. Arising from the decision of the Government to accept the new fee per GP visit, does the Government now accept that between the changes to be made to the drugs scheme and the new fee per GP per patient over 70, the savings involved could have avoided all of the anxiety and fears——
This is the Order of Business, Deputy Kenny.
——and all of the concerns expressed by the elderly on the streets of Dublin last week?
There are other ways of raising that matter. It is not in order.
The budget was out of order.
Is the Tánaiste prepared to put up the hand of Government and say: "We are sorry for the angst caused and we have identified the savings in this area"?
If the Deputy wishes to ask a question which is in order, he is entitled to do so.
Second, in respect of the fair deal legislation which is to come to the House the week after next, directly contradictory statements have been made by different Ministers about how this is to apply and how it will impact on people. The budget statement read out by the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, states that the eligibility for reclaim or rebate will be reduced from the marginal rate to the standard rate.
We cannot deal with that legislation now, as the Deputy knows.
It is of importance if it concerns legislation.
The Deputy cannot ask about its content.
Contradictory statements have been made by Government.
The Deputy cannot ask about its content. That is not my fault.
The Bill is to come to the House shortly.
If the Deputy asks when it is coming to the House, it is a different matter.
It means that for a patient going into a nursing home in Dublin, where the cost may be €60,000 a year——
The Deputy can ask when it is coming to the House.
——there will be a difference of €12,000 per patient if the Minister's rule is to be applied. I would like to know from the Tánaiste whether it is to be at the marginal rate or the standard rate.
We cannot deal with the content.
Will the fair deal cover all of those who go into nursing homes as a consequence?
I have a third question. Today's Tirconnell Tribune — I have the front page in front of me — states the Tánaiste met the spokespersons and representatives of the Down’s syndrome association on Saturday. In what is the most despicable act in this budget——
Hold on, Deputy. This is neither a budget debate nor a Second Stage debate. I cannot allow that.
I am dealing with legislation.
The Deputy should continue. He should ask the question.
He should ask about the legislation. The Deputy should be fair to the Chair.
I am dealing with legislation as far as the Finance Bill is concerned. In what was the most despicable act of them all——
That is not a question about the legislation.
——the Government proposed to raise the eligibility limit for disability from 16 to 18 years.
Does the Deputy have a question on the legislation?
This newspaper today states that the Tánaiste met the representatives of this association on Saturday, assured them this would be changed back and that the increase to the age of 18 would not go ahead. It states that spokespersons——
I call the Tánaiste to reply on the legislation.
——who met the Tánaiste, Deputy Coughlan, on Saturday——
On the issue of the legislation——
——said they were delighted with the outcome and they were more sure afterwards that the budget recommendations to extend eligibility to 18 years would not go head.
There are no circumstances under which I can allow Deputies to come into the House and read from provincial newspapers on a Thursday morning. That is not possible. I call the Tánaiste on the legislation.
I have a fourth question.
On the issue of the legislation to deal with——
A Cheann Comhairle, I have a fourth question.
Has the Deputy a question which is in order?
It is.
Let him finish.
——the changes with the medical cards, as has been indicated by the Taoiseach, there are two pieces of legislation which will be brought forward.
A Cheann Comhairle——
A Cheann Comhairle——
The fair deal will be announced next week and the contents thereof can be discussed——
A Cheann Comhairle——
I have a fourth question.
Hello, a Cheann Comhairle.
——with regard to the issue of the tax changes that can take place within the Finance Bill.
On the final issue, if Deputy Joe McHugh would like to talk to me afterwards, I will put him straight.
They can have a chat about it later.
I call Deputy Kenny on the fourth issue.
I did not hear anything that the Tánaiste muttered when the Ceann Comhairle disallowed my legitimate question.
I answered clearly and distinctly.
I have asked the Tánaiste three questions.
I answered the three questions.
We will see whether the quality of her answers has improved since last week. Here is my fourth question. Can the Tánaiste explain to the House how there is now a differential of 7 cent between petrol prices at the pumps here and at pumps across every European country?
For God's sake, Deputy.
This is dealing with the Competition Authority.
It is completely out of order. The Deputy should ask a question on legislation.
This is your business, a Cheann Comhairle. The Government proposes to amalgamate the National Consumer Agency into a fair trade agency.
The Tánaiste should reply on the legislation.
Can the Tánaiste explain why there is now a 7 cent differential in the pump price for hundreds of thousands of commuters?
Deputy Kenny is taking French leave.
The Greens want to run the Irish motorist off the road. The Tánaiste should explain this.
On the competition legislation.
On the Competition Authority, as I indicated to the Deputy——
Answer the first one again.
The Deputy should get the blacks. The situation is that I will be introducing new legislation on the Competition Authority which will hopefully encompass the amalgamation of the other organisation.
Withdraw the racist remark.
I am not happy with that. I asked the Tánaiste a question. Why is there a 7 cent differential between the price at pumps here——
Explain it.
She does not know.
Deputy Kenny knows as well as I do that we cannot cover that this morning.
I will be more than happy to answer a parliamentary question on this matter.
I am asking a parliamentary question in the House of Parliament and the fact of the matter is that the Tánaiste cannot answer it.
Calm down.
I need an answer to the question on the Down's syndrome association. The Tánaiste stated this decision would be reversed.
The Tánaiste can only answer on legislation on the Order of Business. This is not in order.
The Ceann Comhairle is like a good barman in Caherciveen. He will not see a customer he does not want to see. The front page of the Tirconnell Tribune——
I never spoke to the Tirconnell Tribune.
——states the Tánaiste met representatives of the Down's syndrome association and she said the Government's intention——
It is not legislation.
——to increase the age from 16 to 18 would be reversed. Is this true?
This is not legislation. Deputy Kenny knows as well as I do that we cannot discuss provincial newspapers on the Order of Business.
It affects thousands of persons with a disability——
Deputy Kenny cannot ask this question this morning.
The Tánaiste has to answer.
Will the Tánaiste answer "Yes" or "No"?
The Tánaiste cannot answer the question. I call on Deputy Gilmore.
May I answer?
Listen carefully.
I am sorry about this but——
The Tánaiste is right to apologise.
——I have listened to the condescending remarks of Enda Kenny for a considerable period of time.
Deputy Kenny to you.
If we wish to work within the rules of the House——
(Interruptions).
Excuse me, I am completely out of order in answering any questions outside of the matters of the Order of Business on legislation. However, I am more than happy to deal with the leniency that has been shown but not from now on.
The Ministers have high standards.
Learn the rules of the House.
Take a chill pill.
We know the reaction we get from Members over there. The Tánaiste has not answered the questions.
I call Deputy Gilmore. I am sure he will ask a question that is in order.
The Tánaiste is talking out of both sides of her mouth. She says one thing in the House and another when she is in Donegal.
I will sort you out, Deputy Kehoe.
On a point of order——
What is Deputy Kehoe's point of order?
I would like to know how the Tánaiste is going to sort me out.
Is the Tánaiste talking about mud-wrestling?
That is not a point of order. I call Deputy Gilmore.
The Tánaiste says one thing here and one thing in Donegal.
I will buy Deputy Kehoe a fine cappuccino and discuss the Tirconnell Tribune with him, no problem.
I ask Deputy Kehoe to resume his seat.
The Tánaiste should answer the question.
Deputy Kehoe has walked into it now.
The Tánaiste will explain it slowly over a cup of coffee after the Order of Business.
The Tánaiste should answer the question.
I ask Deputy Kehoe to resume his seat and I call Deputy Gilmore.
No wonder Deputy Joe Behan left.
Who will be next?
They will call on the Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, to assist.
Is Deputy Charles Flanagan looking for a cup of coffee too?
The Tánaiste is very touchy this morning.
I wish to raise three small matters.
Be gentle with them. They are a bit touchy this morning.
So long as none of them comes from a provincial newspaper it is fine.
It is a free sheet. It is not even a provincial newspaper.
No, they are not, we do not get provincial newspapers in Dublin until Friday.
This week last year, the Government voted down a Labour Party Private Members' motion to restore to the Order Paper the Labour Party Private Members' Bill on civil unions. The Government promised it would introduce its own legislation. Some time ago it published the heads of a Bill but we have not heard anything about it since. What is delaying the publication of the Government's civil union legislation? Will the Tánaiste indicate when the Bill will come before the House?
Yesterday, on the Order of Business the Taoiseach confirmed something the Tánaiste stated previously, which is that the Government will introduce legislation to amend the Competition Act. I understood from what the Taoiseach stated yesterday that this legislation will amend the Competition Act to allow the Government to negotiate with the IMO and that it will be done only in respect of negotiations with the IMO.
The Labour Party tabled a Private Members' Bill in the name of Deputy Michael D. Higgins which would have amended the Competition Act to allow for negotiations to take place between the Government and other professional bodies on matters of delivery of public services. Will the Tánaiste clarify whether the legislation amending the Competition Act is confined only to the IMO or whether it will include the matters covered by the Labour Party Bill? When will it be published?
The bank scheme approved last week has a provision which states that any institution covered by the guarantee scheme shall agree to "indemnify the Minister in respect of any payments of covered liabilities made by the Minister following a claim made under the guarantee or any other liabilities incurred by the Minister in that regard". However, the market notice published by the Department of Finance on its website states:
A covered institution is not required to indemnify the Minister in respect of any payments made by the Minister under a guarantee given to any other covered institution which is not a member of its corporate group.
What this means in practice is that the scheme approved by the Dáil states if a bank gets into trouble the other banks will be required to pay but what the Department of Finance has advertised to the banking market is that this does not apply and any bank covered by the scheme will not have to pay. Deputy Rabbitte——
We cannot discuss the scheme today.
This is an important matter.
This matter was ruled out of order yesterday. It is very important and several matters raised by Deputy Kenny and other Deputies are also very important. If the Members wish to change the Standing Orders, they are entitled to do so and I will obey them.
This is to do with legislation.
While we have the Standing Orders, I must enforce them and I ask Deputy Gilmore to raise the matter in another way. I am sure he can.
I am not trying to change the Standing Orders. Who is trying to change measures which were approved by this House?
We cannot get in this now and Deputy Gilmore knows it as well as I do. There is another way of raising it.
Do we have a situation whereby the Government tells the public that the banks will be liable if a bank goes under and tells the banks that the public is liable?
The Tánaiste to reply on the first two questions. There might be a very strong argument for having Leaders' Questions on Thursdays. I do not know, it is a matter for the Members but I cannot have them on Thursday until the Standing Orders say so.
On the civil union Bill, as Deputy Gilmore rightly stated, the heads have been cleared. We hope to have it finalised as urgently as possible and have the legislation available early next year.
With regard to the Competition Authority, I am in consultation with the Attorney General on this matter and we are examining the wider application of what was decided with regard to the IMO. As I indicated last week and this week in the House, the Competition Act is being reviewed and I hope to have comprehensive legislation which will include the Government's decision.
Who pays if a bank goes under?
That question is not in order.
I can ask the Minister to converse with the Deputy on the banking issue.
Asking on the Order of Business who pays if a bank goes under — come on Deputy Gilmore.
It is important.
Of course it is important, I know it well. I have to operate under Standing Orders and that is the brief I am given.
It is reported today that the Health Service Executive proposes to establish nine regional authorities. Coming so soon after the establishment of the HSE, it is a clear admission of its failure to deliver quality health care, something I believe we all know in this House. Will legislation be brought before the Dáil to effect this change or will it be done by ministerial order? If it is done by ministerial order, will it be presented to the Dáil to allow for a full Dáil debate? Is it the case that any major change to the structure of the HSE must be addressed in this House given it was this House which established the HSE in the first instance?
Structural changes of themselves may or may not be the full answer. The critical deficiencies are the absence of democratic accountability——
There cannot be Second Stage speeches on the Order of Business. Is there legislation promised?
——from the Minister in the first instance and the opportunities for locally elected voices to raise matters and the need for patient consensus.
Is legislation promised in this area?
There is no legislation required for this and none promised. There are no new authorities being created.
I call on Deputy Ruairí Quinn.
There will be no new authorities.
If no legislation is required or none planned, the ministerial order or whatever mechanism that will be used for this change——
There will be no new authorities.
If there are no new authorities, is it not the case that the structure of the HSE will be changed?
No secondary legislation has been promised. I call on Deputy Ruairí Quinn.
I am calling for a debate in the House on the proposed changes to the administrative structure of the HSE. Will the Tánaiste allow for such a debate?
That is a matter for the Whips.
Will the Tánaiste accommodate a debate in the House on these changes? Will she answer the question? She has the Minister for Health and Children beside her. Will the House be accommodated with a debate on the structural changes in the HSE?
It is a matter for the Whips.
The matter is going before the Joint Committee on Health and Children and it can be discussed there.
Will the Tánaiste indicate when Committee Stage of the Student Support Bill will be taken?
That would be a matter for the Whips.
It is also a matter for the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Science, Deputy Paul Gogarty, but he is gone missing. Does the Tánaiste know where the Deputy is?
(Interruptions).
He will send us an e-mail.
I call on Deputy Bernard Durkan.
Perhaps the missing persons Act could be amended as well. Like you, a Cheann Comhairle, I have been wondering how certain promised legislation will be brought to the House. What is the position on the legislation to accommodate the social welfare Bill and the reduced eligibility for qualification for medical cards? It was previously indicated to the House that this would be introduced by two Ministers at the same time, a most unusual but interesting procedure.
We cannot have a speech on the Order of Business. Will the Deputy ask about the legislation?
Will the eligibility reduction be introduced under the social welfare Bill or the health (amendment) Bill? Will there be one or two Bills?
We cannot discuss the content of the legislation. When will the Bills be introduced to the House?
The social welfare Bill will be published on Monday and the health (amendment) Bill will be published as soon as possible prior to 1 January, sometime in November.
Will it include the promised legislation?
Yes.
We cannot discuss the content of the legislation.
Due to the fact that Deputy Paul Gogarty has a serious issue on hand, is it possible the explosives Bill could be brought into the House? This is in view of the Deputy's impending discussions with the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, and to protect all concerned.
Was the Deputy up all night working that one out?
When will the explosives Bill be published?
It will be published next year.
Was a precedent set in the House yesterday when the arrogant and untruthful Minister for Defence——
Hold on a second now.
——refused to meet Opposition Oireachtas Members? He gave two fingers to the Army wives yesterday and pulled the shutters on Longford.
All the best. Good night Deputy James Bannon. I call on Deputy Shane McEntee.
Deputy Bannon flunked it. You flunked it. You are just a straw man. You are just a clown. Go away and resign yourself. Or else take a Valium.
I want to know why the Minister behaved in an arrogant manner. He should be ashamed of himself the way he treated the people of my county yesterday.
The Deputy should take a chill pill or else take some Prozac.
I call on Deputy Shane McEntee.
I must also comment on the two Government Deputies in my constituency for their arrogance and complete contempt for the people of Longford.
I call on Deputy McEntee.
I am half afraid of Deputy James Bannon.
The Deputy will have to raise the matter another way.
Shame on you all. Shame on the Fianna Fáil Government.
Deputy Bannon, allow Deputy McEntee.
A Cheann Comhairle, he will hit me if I stand up.
Shame on you all again. The door was banged in the face of Senator Nicky McFadden and myself yesterday.
A Cheann Comhairle, you better give him a hand there.
He flunked it. He did not even dare come up and see me.
Deputy Bannon, I must ask you to resume your seat.
On legislation, a Cheann Comhairle, when is the designated housing and development Bill coming before the House? Shame on you all on that side of the House.
You flunked it. You are just a straw man.
Deputy O'Dea should leave him alone.
I call the Tánaiste on the legislation.
The legislation will be published next year.
Tell the truth, Willie——
Deputy Bannon, I prefer the Standing Order 32 approach.
I think I will move away from Deputy Bannon.
You thought Chad was bad, Willie.
Willie, get your gun.
As a former Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the Tánaiste will know the past five days have been terrible in counties Louth, Meath, Monaghan and Cavan. There was snow last night.
We cannot discuss the weather now.
Is there any way the Tánaiste can request the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to extend the slurry spreading deadline for two weeks?
We cannot discuss snow nor slurry. The Deputy should ask about legislation.
Can there be an extension of two weeks to the slurry spreading deadline?
There is plenty of slurry over on that side.
We cannot bring this up on the Order of Business. If every Member did this, we would never dispense of the Order of Business.
The Department payments have not been made. Will there be an extension for two weeks? It must be done.
There should be an extension to 31 December.
I am aware of that Deputy Sheehan, it is very interesting.
What is the update on the property services regulatory Bill? On previous occasions when I raised the legislation, I was informed it had been referred to the Attorney General for him to decide whether one or various Bills would be required to regulate the industry.
There are two Bills to be dealt with. The property services Bill is with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and will be introduced in this session. The other legislation has not been finalised.
Why has the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill been withdrawn from the Order Paper and why is it not being taken in this session?
The Bill is currently in the Seanad.
An issue arose in the House last night where the Leas-Cheann Comhairle undertook to report to the Ceann Comhairle's office about gestures and words spoken in the Chamber which were deeply offensive to many people. What is the result of your adjudication on this matter, a Cheann Comhairle? I believe the Minister of State in question, Deputy Conor Lenihan, ought to withdraw those remarks.
It is a long-established ruling of the House that the Ceann Comhairle does not review rulings of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle nor does the Leas-Cheann Comhairle review rulings of the Ceann Comhairle. The position is that action replays are not a matter in which we become involved. I am not in a position——
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle said last night he would review the matter.
I am not in a position to go into last night's business nor was I present in the House. That is the position.
I contacted your office this morning and I was advised to contact the Office of the Clerk of the Dáil. I know the time was short but it is a serious and fundamental issue. I want to be helpful to the House. It is very important that the gesture made here last night and the intent behind it——
I do not know anything about it.
——or the words that were spoken be withdrawn by the Minister of State mentioned. I call on him to indicate that he will speak on this matter.
If the Minister of State wants to be helpful.
Deputy Coveney knows this morning that I said I would fully retract it if that was his request. I am delighted to retract it here on the record. I am also delighted Deputy Varadkar is not as precious as his colleagues over there.
The Deputy is well used to that now.
The Minister of State should know when to stop digging.
I call on Deputy Olwyn Enright.
That was a fairly half-hearted withdrawal.
I must emphasise that Standing Orders do not allow for retrospective rulings.
On a point of order, last night we were given an assurance from the Leas-Cheann Comhairle that he would consult the Ceann Comhairle——
He said he would consult the record.
——in order to make a ruling on this matter. That is the basis for us requesting the Ceann Comhairle make a ruling this morning.
We could use video evidence.
No action replays. I call on Deputy Enright.
This morning the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Máire Hoctor, stated at a meeting of ICSA that if it had alternative proposals that could be brought to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, they would be considered. The phrase, "like what is happening in education", was used. In view of this is the Minister going to re-examine the budget cuts in agriculture?
I would love to help the Deputy but I cannot, because it is not in order.
It makes a difference to those working in the sector if it is going to be re-examined.
I cannot do it. Deputy Enright well knows that.