Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 13 Oct 2010

Vol. 718 No. 2

Leaders’ Questions

Deputy Enda Kenny

The small business sector in Ireland is in crisis. There are thousands of small, indigenous Irish businesses barely hanging on, with many employing three, five, ten or 15 employees and now really struggling. The very concept of indigenous Irish business is at risk because of the failed banking strategy of the Government.

Last January the Tánaiste committed to the introduction of a loan guarantee scheme. I understand there is a great deal of messing going on between the Department of Finance and the Department Enterprise, Trade and Innovation about the introduction of the scheme. As we talk in this House about consensus and a move towards putting forward solutions for what is the greatest economic crisis that the Government has led us into, what has happened to the loan guarantee scheme?

The Taoiseach

With regard to supports for small business and the work of Enterprise Ireland, the schemes which have been introduced are successful and have been very helpful to more than 1,800 firms in the country. The question of loan guarantee must be considered very carefully. We have already been given credit plans from the banks to ensure that on the basis of their successful recapitalisation they will be in a position to extend credit lines to business. The issue of the State being a further guarantor in respect of loans in business, in addition to what security businesses are already providing, is something that must be carefully considered and is under discussion.

Deputy Enda Kenny

As Deputy Bruton pointed out yesterday, a third of county enterprise boards have no seed capital; they cannot help anybody but can pay their own staff. The Government had no problem in putting out approximately €40 billion for recapitalisation of the banks or Anglo Irish Bank. This type of scheme operates in many countries and where they are well designed and constructed, they are commercially driven and self-financing without being a burden on the taxpayer. Banks have only been accustomed to lending where property and assets were involved and they have never been accustomed to lending to small Irish businesses who want to get into manufacturing, exports, food or tourism. These are the areas where we know serious job potential exists. Currently, many businesses which want to use initiative and creativity to get into these areas cannot get the required assistance because the banks' strategies are not as forthcoming as they should be.

In January, the Tánaiste and the Government committed to a loan guarantee scheme but it has not seen the light of day. I recognise that it must be vetted but there is a great degree of messing going on between the Department of Finance and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation. The scheme has not seen the light of day and thousands of small Irish businesses are hanging on by their fingernails. There are 80,000 small businesses in the country employing almost 800,000 people. Not every problem can be solved but this has a solution. The Government committed to the issue but we cannot believe it any more. Will the Taoiseach drive the process through so that we can have a loan guarantee scheme that will be of assistance to small Irish businesses?

As we are talking about consensus, Fine Gael will next week introduce a motion for a loan guarantee scheme. I hope on that occasion, when it will be properly assessed and vetted, the Government will see fit to give it consensus and support in the interest of retaining Irish jobs.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

Any debate taking place in the House will afford everyone the opportunity to explain their precise position on these issues and the necessary policies to support small businesses. There are many supports in place from Enterprise Ireland which are assisting small businesses but the working capital needs of small businesses will be best protected and provided for once the full recapitalisation of the banking system is in place. That is at an advanced stage.

Deputy David Stanton

"No" is the answer.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

We are coming to the time of year when the weather gets colder and families must spend more money heating their homes. The price of home heating oil is now 26% higher than it was this time last year. One of the factors which has contributed to the increase in the price of home heating oil is the carbon levy introduced by the Government in the last budget. When the Minister for Finance introduced that measure he promised that a vouched fuel allowance scheme would be developed to offset the increases for low-income families dependent on such fuel. That vouched fuel allowance scheme has not yet been produced.

The programme for Government committed to the publication of a fuel poverty strategy by the end of 2009 in keeping with the introduction of the carbon levy. The problem of fuel poverty is very real and the energy regulator has told us electricity disconnections are now running at a rate of between 2,000 and 2,500 households per month. Bord Gáis has told us that so far this year, 4,000 homes have been disconnected.

The Labour Party has a motion before the House proposed by Deputy McManus last night which addresses the issue and calls on the Government to introduce the vouched fuel allowance scheme promised in the budget to offset the carbon levy measures for low-income families. It also calls for the publication of the fuel poverty strategy. We were surprised that the Government amendment made no mention of either measure when it was circulated last night and the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in responding to the Labour Party motion, made no commitment to either of them. When will the vouched fuel allowance scheme, promised in last year's budget, be introduced? When will the fuel poverty strategy, promised for the end of 2009, be published?

The Taoiseach

The vouched fuel allowance scheme related to the carbon levy on solid fuels. This is subject to a commandment order. Subsequently, when we came to make the decision, taking into account that aspect of the situation, it was to be made subject to a commencement order. That did not happen, however. The vouched scheme will only come into place in the solid fuels area once the commencement order for the applications of a carbon levy to those fuels applies.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

What about home heating oil?

The Taoiseach

Home heating oil prices are still lower than they were during mid-2008 which was the last time there was an increase in the fuel allowance rate. Home heating oil significantly reduced in price after that last increase in fuel allowance. The fuel allowance rate was not reduced at that time. The fuel allowance rate remained static when home heating products reduced in price. That granted an increase in the rate. To use lower prices during 2009 as a justification for an increase in fuel allowance at that stage would not be possible.

There is also the exceptional needs payment for anyone who may have difficulty in that respect.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

That payment is not allowed for this.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

That answer from the Taoiseach is a dodge. It shows no appreciation of the kind of difficulties people have in meeting their home-heating costs. This idea that the vouched fuel allowance was attached only to the introduction of the carbon levy on solid fuels is a completely new excuse by the Government for not proceeding with its introduction.

I will offer the Taoiseach a way that it can be introduced. The energy providers, the ESB and Bord Gáis, are required to re-brand themselves.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

Deputy Gilmore knows about re-branding.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The cost of this re-branding for Bord Gáis alone will be €40 million. I have never heard anything as daft at a time of economic crisis.

An Ceann Comhairle

Can we have a question from Deputy Gilmore?

Deputy Joan Burton

He is coming to it.

An Ceann Comhairle

He is imparting information.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Deputy Gilmore would know all about re-branding.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Not only am I offering a question, I am offering a solution to the Taoiseach as to how this can be addressed.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

We are waiting to hear this.

Deputy Seán Sherlock

Will Deputy Dooley listen?

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The Government will spend €40 million on the ESB and Bord Gáis each for putting up new nameplates, letterheads and for new advertising at a time when the country is short of money. Those moneys would be better spent providing some assistance to those families who cannot meet their fuel bills. Those families are being switched off by the two suppliers in question which then charge them €200 to switch off and another €200 to be reconnected.

There is a solution. The Government made a promise in last year's budget for a vouched fuel allowance. It has not yet been introduced. The Government made a commitment there would also be a fuel poverty strategy to deal with the needs of families on low incomes who cannot afford to heat their homes in winter. The Taoiseach should introduce these. Instead of Bord Gáis and the ESB spending €40 million each on putting up new nameplates on their offices, it would be better spent providing for those who are having difficulties meeting their fuel costs.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

Whatever arrangements have been made by the ESB and Bord Gáis by the Commission for Energy Regulation can be taken up with them.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

That is daft.

Deputy Joan Burton

That is stupid.

The Taoiseach

It is a matter——

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach is abdicating his responsibility again.

The Taoiseach

I am not. If I may make the point——

Deputy Joan Burton

The regulator said €40 million.

The Taoiseach

A decision by the Commission for Energy Regulation on the liberalisation of the energy market——

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach takes no responsibility for any decisions made by the regulator.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The Government sets policy which the commission implements.

The Taoiseach

If I may continue without interruption.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach without interruption.

The Taoiseach

The House established the Commission for Energy Regulation to regulate the market.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Precisely to implement the Government's policy. This is not the IMF dictating policy.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Quinn's party voted to accept this policy.

An Ceann Comhairle

One speaker at a time.

The Taoiseach

It was voted for by every Member in the House as the best means of providing for competition in the market.

Deputy Joan Burton

What is the change of name about?

Deputy Emmet Stagg

It is just another quango.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Burton listens in silence when the question is asked but cannot be silent when the answer is given.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Burton desist and allow the Taoiseach to answer?

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach is "Quangoman".

The Taoiseach

Does Deputy Burton want an answer?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Burton should behave.

An Ceann Comhairle

Unless there is some respect for the House, we will have to suspend the sitting.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

There are days when it is hard to keep control.

The Taoiseach

Will Deputy Sheahan be able to keep control over there?

Deputy James Reilly

Maybe the Taoiseach should talk to Deputy Seán Power about that?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

He might have to change party again.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

There is plenty of other power apart from electricity and gas.

The Taoiseach

The issue raised by Deputy Gilmore is one for the semi-State companies concerned to deal with the Commission for Energy Regulation.

Deputy Jim O’Keeffe

That is a Pontius Pilate approach.

The Taoiseach

The affordable fuels strategy is at an advanced stage of preparation in the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. It will provide a way to deal with the issue more widely and generally. It will not be like in the past when there were income supports to free fuel schemes. It will also involve retrofitting households to help people have more energy efficient homes.

Significant moneys are going into the retrofit programme with thousands of homes becoming more energy efficient. This runs counter to having fuel schemes that do not deal with energy inefficiency. The whole question is the switch to more energy efficient homes, the best way to deal with fuel poverty. This programme will be accelerated over coming years.

Deputy Seán Sherlock

No, it is not being accelerated.

The Taoiseach

There have been increases in the fuel allowance in the past. I made the point earlier that since the last increase, home heating oil prices have reduced. The overall strategy to be integrated across the board is at an advanced stage at the moment.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

The Green Party's solution is for people to buy a bike to keep warm.

Deputy James Reilly

Houses should be all insulated to save heat.