Seán Sherlock
Ceist:67. Deputy Sean Sherlock asked the Minister for Social Protection the way that the new scheme announced under the Social Welfare Act 2020 in respect of uilleann pipe makers will work in practical terms. [59446/22]
Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions
Social Welfare Code
How will the scheme announced under the Social Welfare Act 2020 in respect of uilleannn pipe makers work in practical terms?
The Minister will recall that I very much welcomed this in the context of the Social Welfare Bill, which is before the House, and I tried to make a play for the hurley makers in a similar vein on the basis that the two are connected by dint of their status under UNESCO tangible heritage status.
My question relating to hurley makers was disallowed so I am chancing my arm in asking this question and raising the question of hurling again but I would genuinely like to know how this scheme will work in practical terms and if there is any scope for the hurley makers of Ireland to be included in a similar scheme.
The Deputy will have to introduce hurling to County Monaghan first.
Gabh mo leithscéal. I did not hear the Chair.
I will not repeat it.
My Department has no scheme in respect of uillean pipe makers. The legislative provision in the Social Welfare Bill 2022 follows directly on foot of a provision of the Finance Bill 2022, which inserted a new section 216F into the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997.
This new section provides for an exemption from income tax up to €20,000 for certain profits arising from the production, maintenance and repair of certain musical instruments. Accordingly, it is necessary to provide that such exempted income remains assessable when calculating such individuals' reckonable income for social insurance contribution liability purposes. This will ensure the social insurance income liability of the beneficiaries of the section 216F measure remains uninterrupted so they can continue to maintain and build an entitlement to the range of benefits available to them under the social insurance system.
Responsibility for taxation matters rests with my colleague, the Minister for Finance. In 2016, as Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, I obtained the approval of the Cabinet to seek special UNESCO recognition for uilleann pipes. That cleared the way for Na Píobairí Uilleann and UCD's National Folklore Collection, and the GAA in respect of hurling, to proceed with their application to UNESCO. I firmly believe UNESCO recognition will provide a significant opportunity to showcase the uniqueness of uilleann piping, hurling and Irish folklore to the world. UNESCO status was granted to uilleann pipes in 2017 and to hurling and camogie in 2018. I realise the Deputy comes from Cork and absolutely understand why he would want hurling included. I take on board his comments. We will have to discuss the matter with the Minister for Finance.
I am aware that the Minister for Social Protection is very influential at the Cabinet so I implore her, following this discussion, to raise the issue with her colleague the Minister for Finance. With regard to hurling, there is a crisis with ash dieback at present and we seriously want to preserve the craft of hurley making.
My own thinking on UNESCO intangible heritage status was influenced by no less a Clareman than Mr. Daniel McCarthy, who did a lot of work in the background in seeking such status. There have been many people involved in this for many years. I welcome the Minister's response.
Harping, uilleann piping and hurling are synonymous with Ireland's national identity and have gained the international recognition they so richly deserve. I was genuinely delighted to see in this year's Finance Bill that, following discussions with my colleagues the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, the latter made provision for an income tax relief related to the manufacturing, maintenance and repair of sets of uilleann pipes and Irish harps. Under the Finance Bill, the makers of uilleann pipes, the early Irish harp and Irish lever harp will be able to claim an exemption from income tax on profits up to €20,000 in a given year for the production, maintenance and repair of the instruments. Under the Bill, the relief applies to the years 2023, 2024 and 2025. The instruments are made by trained craftspeople. The skills have been handed down by master craftspeople for generations. Under the UN convention, the instruments and craftsmanship required to produce them enjoy UNESCO recognition.
I welcome the Minister's response to this and the Government's proactive approach to encouraging the craft of uilleann pipe making and its making of provisions in the tax code to ensure the survival of the craft. If the Government were of a mind to consider other crafts such as hurley making, it would be very much welcomed. If the Minister wishes to take up the cudgel or the hurl on that, she would have the support of all of us here.
As a first step, the Deputy should raise the matter with the Minister for Finance. It was great that the crafts were recognised by UNESCO. A lot of work was done by the GAA. It put in the application. I believe camogie was included. It is important that we recognise these traditions. The problem with ash dieback is concerning. I will leave it at that. Perhaps the Deputy will submit a question for the Minister for Finance.
Social Welfare Benefits
Michael Moynihan
Ceist:68. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Minister for Social Protection if she has any plans to review the two-year, or 104-week, limit for the carer's benefit; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59213/22]
I welcome the opportunity to ask the Minister whether she has plans to review the two-year, or 104-week, limit that applies to the carer's benefit and whether she will make a statement on the matter.
I thank Deputy Moynihan for raising this matter. The main income supports to carers provided by my Department include the carer's allowance, carer's benefit, domiciliary care allowance and carer's support grant. Spending on these in 2022 is expected to be in excess of €1.5 billion.
The carer's benefit is a payment made to insured people who leave the workforce to care for someone in need of full-time care and attention. A person may be eligible for the carer's benefit if he or she has sufficient PRSI contributions. The carer's benefit is payable for a maximum period of 104 weeks for each person being cared for. It can be taken in one block or in separate periods as long as the combined total does not exceed 104 weeks. This payment is complemented by the Carer's Leave Act 2001, which allows employees to leave their employment temporarily to provide full-time care for someone in need of full-time care and attention. A person is entitled to take carer's leave of at least 13 weeks up to a maximum of 104 weeks. It should be noted that not all those claiming the carer's benefit opt to remain in payment for the full 104 weeks. The average duration regarding the benefit was 76.1 weeks between 2018 and 2021.
Where care is provided beyond the period of entitlement to carer's benefit, the means-tested carer's allowance is available for those in need of income support. These arrangements ensure the efficient use of public funds while assisting those who need to take time out for caring and are in need of an income support.
I thank the Minister for the reply outlining the fact that the average duration is 76.1 weeks. People receiving the carer's benefit are predominantly caring for a relative with a very serious health diagnosis. We constantly come across cases where a partner in a couple has to leave the workforce to provide care to a child full time. Such a person gets the carer's benefit for two years. The benefit was designed in 2001 and has helped an enormous number of families over the years. When the 104 weeks are up, an individual cannot claim any other benefit. I accept the Minister's point on the public purse but there is a case to be made for considering the circumstances of those with considerable care needs. I ask the Minister and Department to investigate whether the benefit can be made available on a long-term basis. The beneficiaries would have paid PRSI. Maybe there could be an extension in this regard.
No more than the Deputy, I meet carers all the time in my constituency office. We help them to fill out the forms and follow up on their applications. The carers do great work.
It is particularly difficult when we see a mother who has had to give up work in order to care for a child full-time.
One of my priorities when I became Minister for Social Protection was to do whatever I could to support our carers because I know well the huge work they do and contribution they make to our society. In my first budget in the Department, I increased the carer's support grant to €1,850, the highest ever level. In last year's budget, I was the first Minister in 14 years to make changes to the carer's means test. Those changes mean the first €50,000 in savings is disregarded and a couple can have weekly earnings of up to €750 and still qualify.
As part of this year's budget, carers got a double payment in October. They will get another double payment next week as part of the Christmas bonus. They also got a special €500 carer's support grant last week. Those three measures alone will put an extra €1,000 in carer's pockets. From January, carers will get a €12 increase in their weekly payment, the largest increase since the mid-2000s.
I congratulate the Minister on the change to means-testing, the increase in the payments and what was known as respite care and the €500 payment issues last week. Those measures are very beneficial. Families we deal with are extremely grateful for the funding they have received. This issue comes up constantly at the Joint Committee on Disability Matters.
The 2001 Act introduced carer's benefit for two years. We can only guess why the average is what it is, but everyone has a fair idea of why that is the case. When a partner gives up a full-time position, having paid PRSI from the start of his or her working life, there is a case to be made to examine and perhaps the expand the scheme. I ask the Minister to review the position and determine the cost and how many families would benefit from a change.
I take on board the points made by the Deputy. As part of our State pension reforms, I am committed to providing a pension to our long-term carers. We are doing a lot of work to support carers, which is absolutely right because they do wonderful work. I take on board the points the Deputy has made regarding carer's benefit. All benefit payments are time-bound. I will discuss the points he has made with my officials. As Minister for Social Protection, my number one aim is to keep people out of poverty. In order to start to pay carers for the work they do, there needs to be a discussion with the Department of Health on the role played by carers.
Question No. 69 taken with Written Answers.
Social Welfare Schemes
Brendan Griffin
Ceist:70. Deputy Brendan Griffin asked the Minister for Social Protection when the new over 70s fuel allowance scheme will open for applications for persons from County Kerry; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59183/22]
Joe Carey
Ceist:128. Deputy Joe Carey asked the Minister for Social Protection when the new over 70s fuel allowance scheme will open for applications; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [58838/22]
Could the Minister explain to the House the changes to the over 70s fuel allowance scheme? One of the most positive announcements made in the budget was the lifting of the threshold. Perhaps the Minister could provide details on the scheme.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 70 and 128 together.
Fuel allowance is a means-tested payment to assist pensioners and other low-income households with their winter heating costs. I was very conscious, when addressing my budget priorities for 2023, that many families and older people fall just outside the qualifying threshold for the fuel allowance. It was an absolute priority for me to expand the reach of the scheme. I was, therefore, pleased, as part of the social protection budget 2023 package of €2.2 billion, to announce that I had secured funding for the largest ever expansion of the fuel allowance scheme. It is estimated that the changes introduced will see up to 81,000 additional households qualify for the scheme.
I was particularly aware of the position of older people and, as part of the budget measures, I announced a new means test for those aged 70 and over which will commence in January 2023. A new weekly means threshold of €500 for a single person and €1,000 for a couple is being introduced and applicants no longer need to be in receipt of a qualifying social welfare payment. I am also increasing the threshold for the capital disregard in the means assessment from €20,000 to €50,000.
The implementation of the over 70s expansion required significant system changes and IT development work. A new streamlined online fuel application process will be available to take applications on mywelfare.ie in early December. This will be the easiest and quickest way to apply for the payment. Those who qualify will have their payments backdated to the week commencing 2 January 2023 or the date of their application if the claim is made after that date.
For applicants aged under 70, the means threshold is being increased by €80 per week, from €120 to €200 above the appropriate weekly rate of the State contributory pension. That means in January the means test will increase to €265 per week for a single person for those aged under 70. In addition, in the week commencing 14 November, a €400 additional lump sum payment was paid to all households in receipt of fuel allowance.
I want to get this up and running as quickly as possible because I do not know about other Deputies but I have a queue of people coming into my office wondering when they can get application forms. I understand they are anxious to get the payment. We have to do a bit of work on it and we want to make it streamlined and easy to follow. It takes some work to get things up online. We will do that as quickly as possible.
The basis of this was the over 70s medical card scheme. I modelled this scheme along those lines because I believe that when people are older they are more likely to get sick. That is why the medical card scheme for those aged over 70s was put in place. When people are older they are more likely to be colder, and that is why I wanted to introduce this new benefit.
It is one of the most progressive social protection announcements I have ever seen. It is a very positive move and could not have come at a better time. As we know, people are struggling with the cost of fuel. My office has been inundated with inquiries from people looking for information on this since the budget.
The Minister may recall that in advance of the budget I brought to her attention the case of a woman who worked hard all her life and had reared her family. Due to a small occupational pension, she was above the threshold for the fuel allowance. She will now qualify under the new threshold, which is very important to her and gives her huge security.
Based on the figures provided by the Minister, about 3,000 households in my constituency of Kerry will benefit from the scheme. That is an enormous number of people. It will provide people who are fearful in the current crisis of not being able to stay warm during the winter with great security. I thank the Minister and congratulate her on her efforts.
I too warmly welcome this reform. It is expansionary. The Minister is to be commended for replicating what was done with the medical card for those aged over 70. The Minister might have the figures for County Clare, which I would be interested in seeing. I have received a lot of queries about the scheme. Some people may qualify for it. Does the Department have any plans to inform the public of the change?
As I said, during the budget one of the measures I was keen to prioritise was an expansion of the fuel allowance for older people. Both Deputies Carey and Griffin raised those issues with me. They said that a lot of pensioners do not qualify for the fuel allowance. I listen to what is said across the House, not just on one side. The evidence is there that older people are more vulnerable to the cold. The one thing I do not want to see as a Minister is a situation where an old person is afraid to turn on the heat. We all have parents and grandparents and none of us wants to see them sitting in the cold saying they cannot turn the heat on. That is why I brought in this completely new means test for those who are over 70. As Deputies know, a single person can have an income of €500 and a couple can have an income of €1,000 under the scheme. There is another important point that I want to explain. A lot of people did not get the fuel allowance because they were not in receipt of a social welfare payment to qualify for it. That particularly affected civil servants because they did not get a social welfare payment so we are changing that. That means low-paid civil servants will qualify.
That is an important inclusion and that is helpful to many people. I welcome the efforts that have been made to help cope with what will effectively be an avalanche of applications, with talk of 80,000 applications. I hope the systems are up to scratch. Should there be delays it is reassuring to know that any application will be backdated to 2 January. That is important to try to give reassurance to people who may otherwise be afraid to turn on the heating or put the extra few lumps of coal on the fire. Even if their applications are not processed rapidly they will be backdated. That is welcome and I thank the Minister for clarifying that here. I ask that as much information as possible would be communicated offline and through mainstream media to the target audience between now and the opening of the scheme because people are keen for news on it. I ask that there are offline facilities to assist people with the application process. It would be important to provide that.
On the form itself, the Minister said she expects it to come out in early December. It is important it is a simple form that is understandable and readable and that it can be turned around quickly. Is there a closing date for the application period or will it remain open? Will individuals be able to apply on an ongoing basis?
I join my colleagues in congratulating the Minister on this initiative, which will make a massive difference. Both of my colleagues have alluded to the need for information so that people know about this. It would be a shame if people did not know about it and missed it. I draw the Minister's attention to the fact that some of the citizens information outreach centres have still not opened since the pandemic. The Minister might ask her officials to have a look at this and to make sure the citizens information outreach centres are open, where they were prior to the pandemic, across the country. This will mean that people, including those who are not used to online applications, can go in, sit down and get the information, support and help they need to make the application for this fantastic scheme and for other schemes that the Minister has brought in during her time.
I also want to welcome this scheme. Like previous speakers have said, information will be critical because I have been inundated with phone calls and people calling into the office. People are also going to social welfare offices for information. It is so important that elderly people get this and a lot of them do not do online applications. When it comes to the social welfare offices, has the Minister thought about recruiting extra personnel for a few months? They may be needed in January or even in December. People have contacted me and they are delighted with this but extra personnel could be important for the social welfare offices. As the Minister said, the staff there work so hard but their phones are constantly ringing and people are looking for information. How can we get the information out as quickly as possible? Is the Minister looking at recruiting more staff until we get the bulk of the applications processed? This is a welcome move for the 80,000 people who need this assistance most; they are the most vulnerable.
There are 372,000 recipients of fuel allowance. We are expecting about 81,000 people to apply, although we do not know exactly what the number will be. We will have an online form out before Christmas. We will have it out as soon as we can. We are working on it and the officials have been working long hours to design it because you have to be careful with anything that goes online. There will be a paper form in due course but speed is of the essence. I am sure there will be plenty of young people around over Christmas and if their elderly relatives are stuck with the online form then the young people will be good in making the applications for their grandparents if necessary. We will have a paper-based application but the online one is coming up first because we want to try to do this as quickly as possible. The good news is that when you get your application in, it will be backdated to 1 January. We want to make sure people get this payment and we are launching this to help older people and give them the sense of security that they can switch on their heaters if they want to.
Question No. 71 taken after Question No. 72.
Social Welfare Payments
Paul McAuliffe
Ceist:72. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Minister for Social Protection her plans to reform illness benefit entitlements for self-employed persons; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [58968/22]
I am taking this on behalf of Deputy McAuliffe. What are the Minister's plans to reform illness benefit entitlements for self-employed people?
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. Illness benefit is the primary short-term income support provided by my Department to those who are unable to work due to illness of any type and who are covered by social insurance. Eligibility for illness benefit depends on the person’s PRSI record and class. People must have made the required number of contributions in class A, E, H or P to qualify.
In general, self-employed people make PRSI contributions at class S, which does not count towards eligibility for illness benefit. I am not considering changing this rule. However, self-employed contributors who cannot work due to an illness or a disability may apply for disability allowance, a means-tested social assistance payment, or invalidity pension, a social insurance payment. Illness benefit is funded by the Social Insurance Fund through PRSI contributions. The fund is central to our social protection system and the Government needs to ensure that it can provide adequate and sustainable social insurance pensions and benefits for a growing and aging population. Self-employed people pay contributions to the fund at a lower rate of 4%. This is 11% lower than the combined employer and employee contribution of 15.05% made in respect of employed contributors. However, self-employed contributors have access to over 90% of benefits available to employed contributors.
These include: adoptive benefit; guardian's contributory payment; invalidity pension; jobseeker's benefit for the self-employed; maternity benefit; parent's benefit; partial capacity benefit where in receipt of invalidity pension; paternity benefit; the State contributory pension; treatment benefit; and widows, widower's or surviving civil partner's contributory pension. The only benefits that class S PRSI do not provide access to are carer's benefit, health and safety benefit, illness benefit, and occupational injuries benefits.
I thank the Minister for her clear answer. She has made the point well. Since the introduction of the changes the Minister and others in the Department have made on the class S contributions being applicable to the invalidity pension, how many self-employed people have benefited and been able to get the invalidity pension? The difficulty for self-employed people is there is no mechanism for them to secure the job if they have a permanent illness. It might be interesting for us to have the figures on how many people qualified for the invalidity pension from the S class contributions since the changes were made by the Minister and others in the Department.
I will have to ask if I can get the figures for the Deputy. I am happy to do that. Did he say he wants to know how many qualified for the invalidity pension?
That is right, yes.
I will see if I can get the figures and I will send them to the Deputy.
To be fair, we have made a significant number of changes for the self-employed in the past six or seven years or more. I remember when self-employed people got nothing. We have made a lot of progress in that regard. They now receive more than 90% of the other benefits when they pay their PRSI. They pay 4% in total, which is fair enough, but if we are to give them more benefits, we will have to have a conversation about increasing PRSI. I want to be straight about that. There is no point in looking at it other than as part of a conversation on increased rates of PRSI.
Pensions Reform
Alan Farrell
Ceist:71. Deputy Alan Farrell asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide an update on the work of her Department with regard to the auto-enrolment workplace pension scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59236/22]
I apologise to Deputy Stanton but I did not have the information in front of me. There was only one substitution. I think his application was late. I will go back to him now.
I am taking this question on behalf of my colleague, Deputy Alan Farrell. He is seeking from the Minister an update on the work of her Department with regard to the auto-enrolment workplace pension scheme, and a statement on the matter. This is a very progressive scheme and it is very welcome. I am giving the Minister an opportunity to comment on it.
The introduction of a pensions auto-enrolment system is a programme for Government commitment and a key priority for me as Minister for Social Protection. As the Deputy will know, under auto-enrolment, employees will have access to a workplace pension savings scheme, co-funded by their employer and the State. For every €3 workers pay into it, they will have another €4 credited to their account, and the contributions will then be invested. The additional €4 consists of €3 from the employer and €1 from the State. This will be supplementary to the State pension and will be of particular benefit to the estimated 65% of people working in the private sector who are not currently paying into a supplementary pension scheme. That is estimated at approximately 750,000 people.
In March last, following Cabinet approval, I published the document, The Design Principles for Ireland's Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System, which sets out in detail what the new system will do and who will be able to access it. It is envisaged that the enrolment of the first auto-enrolment participants will commence in early 2024. Working towards that date, the focus is now solely on implementing the agreed design, including by drafting the necessary legislation that will underpin it, designing the organisation structures and the technical system to operate it, and communicating this landmark reform to stakeholders and the public.
To this end, the general scheme for a Bill establishing the auto-enrolment system was developed, brought to Government and approved in July. The Bill is now being drafted by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and I hope I will be in a position to publish it early next year. I have also submitted the general scheme of the heads of the Bill to the Oireachtas joint committee and I am told the committee has commenced pre-legislative scrutiny and called for submissions from relevant stakeholders. I look forward to the committee's report and to engaging with the Oireachtas in a debate on the Bill in early 2023.
I thank the Minister for all the work she and her officials have been doing on the system. The system is very progressive, important and welcome. Does the Minister have any idea of the initial cost to the State, year on year, when the system will be introduced in 2024, and in 2025, 2026 and so on? Has any work been done on that yet? Perhaps it is premature for the Minister to know that.
Of the 65% or 750,000 people who have no private pension at the moment, can they opt in to the system as it develops or does it only apply to people when they start a new job and only from the very beginning?
Auto-enrolment has been talked about for decades. The auto-enrolment train is now on the tracks and is leaving the station. The design has been finalised. Anybody who does not have a private occupational pension will be automatically enrolled. People are joined up and there are breaks allowed for different reasons. I do not have all the information in my head as it is getting late, but a person can opt out for a period, such as six months. We will put people back in again and we will keep putting them in. As Deputy Stanton will appreciate, and I know myself, there is never a right time to start a pension. When we start off, we want to have money to enjoy ourselves. Then when we have children, we must look after them and then we have to educate them. There is never a right time, but we are going to start this now.
I ask the Minister about the cost. Can people who are already working opt in to this system as they move forward? I have seen some literature which has given rise to some confusion in that regard.
The Minister referred to investing the pension into a managed fund. Is she happy that it will be safeguarded and will be robust, people will not lose the money in that fund and the State will back it up as well?
It has been raised with me that some people may have personal retirement savings accounts, PRSAs. The exemption of participants and employers from auto-enrolment based on their engagement with existing occupational pension schemes and PRSAs will likely be based on minimum requirement standards. My officials are currently working out the detail of how this will work for the purposes of the legislation, and in terms of the automation of the system. My understanding and preference is that no participant should be in an occupational or supplementary pension scheme that leaves him or her less well off than he or she would be under auto-enrolment. We have to work on those details as the legislation is being drafted. I have the design in place and it has gone to the Oireachtas joint committee. If the committee has some suggestions, I will be happy to hear them. If I can make the system even better, I will be happy to do that as well. It has started now, which is the most important point. The train is on the track.
Departmental Policies
David Stanton
Ceist:73. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Social Protection the reason that her Department has an alert notice on its website highlighting the danger of scam phone calls and scam text messages; the extent and impact of such calls; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59210/22]
I came across an intriguing notice on the Department's website highlighting the danger of scam phone calls and text messages. I am interested in hearing from the Minister about the extent and impact of such calls. What should people be wary of? I give the Minister an opportunity to give us some more detail as to what is going on in this regard. For instance, have people already been defrauded in some way by others pretending to be from her Department?
My Department is aware of reports that people have received scam calls purporting to be from departmental officials. Thankfully, there has been a significant decline in the reported instances, from more than 1,500 last year to fewer than 120 this year. These scam phone calls and text messages are seeking personal information, for example, a PPS number and bank account details. The focus of the Department's response has been on the provision of information to the public so that people are aware that these calls are fraudulent and that the Department would not contact a customer to ask for these personal details by phone or text.
The Department has been in contact with An Garda Síochána in relation to these scams. In 2021, when the scam calls first came to our attention, the Department alerted people via a number of channels, including a video message from me, which was published on social media; a press release; internal communications to the Department's staff; a multilingual notification on our website; and a public information campaign, which ran in May 2021.
The Department continues to remind people to be fraud-aware, as a preventative measure. I take this opportunity to urge customers of my Department, who have accounts with KBC or Ulster Bank to update their payment details through the secure change of payment service on mywelfare.ie. This service is available to customers with a verified MyGovID account. Customers can also provide their new bank account details in writing to the relevant scheme area in my Department.
My Department will never contact a customer by phone or text message and ask for bank details.
I thank the Minister for her response and for the work she and her officials are doing in this area, which is very serious, especially given, as she told us, there were 1,500 such calls last year. I wonder how many of them caused damage to people and managed to defraud them, although she might not have that information to hand. I welcome the fact that, as she noted, the figure has fallen to 100 this year, which shows that progress has been made and that the work she and her officials are doing is bearing fruit.
Has anybody been prosecuted as a result of making these scam calls and sending these scam text messages? I urge the Minister to continue to inform people of the danger of these scams and to remind them they should not give out information. I again highlight the importance of Citizens Information being made available as much as possible, even on a personal basis in towns and villages, and I reiterate that the outreach centres are very important in that regard.
I thank the Deputy for raising the matter because it is very important. Unfortunately, we will all know stories of people who have received text messages that drew them into a link that turned out to be fake and a scam. I urge people not to give their bank details to anybody, and the same is true of social protection. People should not give out their PPS number; the Department will not call people looking for that sort of information.
The Department is very proactive in this space, and flashes and alerts warn people about what they should not do. This conversation will highlight the fact people need to be aware. Crime has changed, unfortunately. Years ago, someone might have had her handbag stolen and that was the way it was done, whereas now criminals can steal from people through their phone, so we need to be so careful.
I fully agree with the Minister that this is very important. I suggest she might ask, if it has not been done, that notices be placed in post offices, where people collect their pensions and other payments, outlining the risk. Sometimes people receive messages and they are not sure about whether they should respond. Most people are well-meaning and good-natured and want to be polite when they get a phone call or message, but we have to emphasise that not everybody at the other end of the phone always has their best interests in mind. Perhaps there could be another number they could call to verify the number if they are unsure about the source of a message they have received. These people can be very clever, manipulative and smart when they talk to people on the phone, and people as clever as the Minister have been caught out by some of this activity.
I will encourage and support her in all she is doing in this area. As she said, it is very important.
I would say to people that if they are in doubt, they should leave it out and not go near the message or call because these people are professionals and they want to take people's money. That is the bottom line. We will continue to raise awareness about the issue. On Black Friday, there was a lot of online activity and many more of these criminals may have been trying to tap into vulnerable people. I would be happy for post offices to put up notices. I am sure we have provided them as well and we are happy to do that to create that awareness.
The Deputy mentioned the Citizens Information office. I have met the CEO and the chairperson of Citizens Information, which is carrying out a review. I deeply value the contribution of the volunteers in Citizens Information and we will continue to work with them to help provide that service.
School Meals Programme
Marc Ó Cathasaigh
Ceist:74. Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh asked the Minister for Social Protection if the subvention available to the school meals providers is sufficient in view of escalating costs owing to the rate of inflation; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59260/22]
This question relates to a programme that I know is as close to the Minister's heart as it is to mine, namely, the school meals programme. As we all know, the cost of putting food on the table has been escalating for everybody in society. In that context, is the subvention available to school meals providers sufficient in view of the inflation in food costs across the board?
The school meals programme provides funding towards the provision of food services to 1,600 schools and organisations benefiting 260,000 children. The objective of the programme is to provide regular, nutritious food to children to position them to take full advantage of the education provided to them. The programme is an important component of policies to encourage school attendance and greater educational achievement.
Budget 2022 provided €68.1 million for the programme, with an additional €9 million provided to allow access to all new Delivering Equality of Opportunity in Schools, DEIS, schools from September 2022. Additional funding for the programme has been provided for 2023, bringing the total to €91.6 million. This represents a 49% funding increase in the period since 2020. Funding under the school meals programme can be provided for breakfast, snacks, cold lunch, dinner, hot school meals and after-school clubs and is based on a maximum rate per child per day, depending on the type of meal provided.
In March 2022, the Minister for Education announced an extension of DEIS status to an additional 320 schools from September 2022. In July, I announced that from September, access to the hot school meal option would be extended to the 282 newly designated DEIS primary schools, and the cold lunch option to the 38 newly designated DEIS secondary schools, benefiting some 60,000 children. This means that, since my appointment as Minister for Social Protection, I have increased the number of schools with access to the hot school meal option from 37 to more than 500.
I am committed to continuing to expand the school meals programme and building further on the significant extension of the programme in recent years.
This has been Green Party policy since God was a boy, going back to the time of Trevor Sargent, who was elected in the same constituency as my party colleague the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien. I feel strongly, as a former primary school teacher, that when children are in front of us, we should feed them well.
The prepared reply the Minister gave me was detailed in some respects but did not go to the heart of the question in others, so before coming to the Chamber I researched on the Department's website the rates that are available. A sum of €2.90 is what is being made available for a hot meal. I understand the economies of scale and so on, whereby it will be cheaper for schools to feed the masses rather than a family feeding four or five at the dinner table, but is that enough for a high-quality, nutritious meal? The figure for breakfast jumped out at me as well, with 60 cent being provided. I am not sure I could put a nutritious breakfast on my table at home for 60 cent. Are we spending enough per meal to ensure we are getting good nutrition into these kids?
The Minister of State and I are fully committed to the school meals programme. The evaluation is being carried out, and if it recommends an increase in the rates, I will fully support that. If we are going to give children a good, hot dinner in the middle of the day - nothing can beat that - my aim, and I am sure that of the Deputy, is that every child in this country, regardless of his or her socioeconomic background, should get that hot school meal. It makes such a difference.
I am happy to examine the rates but I will have to wait for the outcome of the evaluation programme. I have heard a number of the suppliers say they cannot provide the meals at the rate they are getting, but the process is at an advanced stage and I want to await the outcome.
I thank the Minister. It would be dangerous for me to tell a Monaghan woman how to spend money wisely, but we do not want to be penny wise and pound foolish here. Our nation's children are the most precious thing we have, and we want to ensure we get a good meal into them. We have started in the correct place, namely, in disadvantaged communities and in DEIS schools, but like the Minister, I would like to see that rolled out throughout the country.
I certainly know that both myself and my missus would be very glad not to have to deal with the bloody lunch boxes every day, which would be another attendant benefit. I fully support that ultimate goal but, as I said, I want to make sure that when the State has the children, we feed them but make sure we feed them well. Let us make sure that we are not just penny-pinching and achieve what I think this programme really can achieve.
I assure the Deputy that we want to make sure children get quality food but we have to wait until the outcome of the review. The Deputy was a teacher and, therefore, he knows first-hand the benefit of feeding children when they are at school. It helps their educational attainment. For those parents who are trying to come up with lunches children might eat, it makes it an awful lot easier if they get their lunch at school, particularly a hot one. I visited a school not that long ago in which there were different menus with different choices for children for the hot school meal. This is particularly relevant to primary schools. I do not know how many times I have pulled blue mould-covered sandwiches out from the bottom of a bag on a Friday evening. It does not matter how nice they are made; the children still manage to not eat them. That is why I am totally committed to this programme.
We will squeeze in one more question.
Social Welfare Schemes
Joan Collins
Ceist:75. Deputy Joan Collins asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide a specific clothing allowance as an exceptional needs due to the energy and cost-of-living crises (details supplied). [59202/22]
Will the Minister provide a specific clothing allowance as an exceptional needs payment due to the energy and cost-of-living crises?
A constituent came to me a couple of weeks ago who was looking specifically for a clothing allowance. I sent the form in to see whether I would get a response on it. The guidance states that the "Additional Needs Payment is a payment to help you with an expense that you cannot pay from your weekly income." It goes on to state that this is for, "Food, clothing and shelter after an emergency event such as a fire or flood."
I thank the Deputy. Under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, my Department may make an additional needs payment to help meet expenses that a person cannot pay from his or her weekly income. Payments are made at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme. These can and do include support to assist people with clothing costs outside of emergency situations where they are unable to meet this need from their own resources. This approach provides targeted support rather than a general clothing allowance. The community welfare officer will consider all the relevant circumstances of the case to help those most in need.
From January to end of September 2022, more than 27,000 additional needs payments with a combined value of more than €3.9 million were made to help people with the cost of clothing. The majority of these payments were made to those arriving from Ukraine.
My Department also provides a back to school clothing and footwear allowance to eligible families to assist with the cost of clothing and footwear when children return to school each autumn. This year, the allowance was increased by a further €100 for each eligible child under the scheme. The total amount paid for each qualified child aged from four to 11 was €260 and the rate payable for each eligible child aged 12 and over was €385. More than 157,000 families have benefited from this measure in 2022, providing assistance with the cost of clothing and footwear to almost 273,000 children.
I do not consider that there is a need to introduce a specific clothing allowance given the supports already provided to assist with meeting the current cost-of-living challenges, and access to the additional needs payments to help meet expenses that a person cannot pay from their weekly income.
I encourage any person who considers that they may have an entitlement to an additional needs payment to contact their local community welfare service for assistance. There is a national community welfare contact centre in place that will direct callers to the appropriate office.
I thank the Minister. The information on the additional needs payment gives a list of who can get the payment. The guidance states:
You can get the Additional Needs Payment to help you with an expense that you cannot pay from your weekly income. For example:
- An increase in your fuel or electricity costs
- Essential repairs to property, including motor vehicles ...
- Funeral costs
- Deposits for private rented accommodation
- Bedding and cooking utensils, if you are setting up home for the first time
- Food, clothing and shelter after an emergency event such as a fire or flood
- Recurring travel costs to hospital
- Visiting a relative in hospital or prison
That confuses people. They say they cannot apply for a specific clothing allowance under those criteria. That is why I am raising the issue. It should also be specifically for a clothing allowance and specifically with regard to the cost of living. It is definitely something that should be looked at from that point of view. If a person can apply for it and not have to go to a CWO, it would be better for that person to be able to apply for it officially through those channels. I know the Minister said there is a little discretion but I still think that people are very confused when reading that.
I asked about this and was told that clothes are included in the one we have. I take the Deputy's point, however.
That is not what it states.
I take the Deputy's point; she read it out to me. What I have written here is, "food, clothing or shelter in the aftermath of a fire or flood or other emergency event." I take her point and I will raise it with the officials. The CWOs have discretion.
If the Deputy wants to give me the specific details of the case of that lady who did not get that payment, I am happy to take them. I will raise the issue myself because I do not know the circumstances or particular details of that case. The Deputy can give the details to me, however, and I will be happy to follow it up for her.
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