Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 18 Jan 2023

Vol. 1031 No. 5

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Medical Cards

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State for being available in the House, as usual. I am a bit concerned about this because it is a question of emergency medical cards. These occur in situations where a particular life-threatening or life-changing illness has affected a family and the concerns of the family are and continue to be such that they feel they are entitled to an emergency medical card. In the case of a terminal or life-threatening illness, the families in question have enough worries and problems on their agenda without worrying as well about the possibility of running out of money.

Some might say there are enough provisions to ensure that cannot happen, but that is not so. Years ago, I dealt with a situation where a pivotal officer in the health services was eventually in a situation where the resources had run out. Along with the threat of an illness so serious that it could lead to the termination of a life, the family concerned was also going to face the problem of the loss of the family home. Those are not isolated cases.

This is the second time I have brought the same cases to the attention of the Minister of State. I know she is a very hard worker and that she genuinely and sincerely hopes that the system works as it is supposed to work. However, it is not working as it is supposed to work. The reason I know it is not working is that a person intoned to me that they had reviewed the situation and decided that the person concerned is not entitled to an emergency medical card. On what basis was that decision made? It was made on a financial basis. The decision was made on financial grounds. The whole purpose of emergency medical cards is to get around those considerations to help the people concerned. Those people were receiving emergency treatment six months ago. They expect some little help. I know this matter is safe in the Minister of State's hands. However, some other body is using something to slow the whole thing down and to make it impossible to qualify. There are financial qualification limits when the urgency of the medical situation should be and is sufficient to warrant favourable consideration. I was told in both the cases I have referred to that the situation was being reviewed but a new application would have to be made. I need to ask about that part of the matter. If the existing application is insufficient and income guidelines are the barrier to the grant of the medical card in the first instance, how will that change by making a new application? It is a theory that does not work.

This is not a criticism of the Minister or the Ministers of State. It is simply a question of challenging the concept that exists within the system whereby somebody has the neck, gall and effrontery to say to a public representative that they have reviewed the application and the applicant does not qualify. The people I am speaking of are seriously challenged by their health issues. They have enough other issues to deal with, including increases in the cost of living and the ordinary, run-of-the-mill situations of a household. On top of that, someone has arbitrarily made a decision above their heads that they cannot be helped.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Anne Rabbitte)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Donnelly. I will stick to the script I have been given but perhaps the Deputy and I can have a conversation thereafter.

The Deputy may be aware that under the Health Act 1970, eligibility for a medical card is provided on a statutory basis and is based primarily on means. The Act obliges the HSE to assess whether a person is able, without undue hardship, to arrange general practitioner services, having regard to his or her overall financial position and reasonable expenditure. Persons with full eligibility, that is, medical card holders, can generally access a wide range of health services without charge. As of 1 December last year, there are over 1.56 million medical cardholders and over 535,000 GP visit cardholders. Where individuals might be in excess of the medical card income guidelines, every effort is made by the HSE to support applicants by taking full account of the difficult circumstances, such as extra costs arising from an illness. In such circumstances, the HSE may exercise discretion and grant a medical card. I have yet to see that discretion exercised. It is also important that every effort is made to support people with difficult illnesses including, where appropriate, through the provision of a medical card. I can inform the Deputy that the HSE has systems in place to provide emergency cards to support people who are terminally ill or seriously ill and in urgent need of medical care that they cannot afford. For example, circumstances where it would be appropriate to apply for emergency consideration include acute medical crises whereby access to services covered by medical card eligibility is required urgently and the client has no means to pay for same privately. The HSE has advised me that emergency medical cards are issued within 24 hours of receipt of the required patient details and letter of confirmation of condition from a doctor or consultant. With the exception of terminally ill patients, all emergency medical cards granted are issued for a period of six months. This is based on the patient being eligible for a medical card on the basis of means or undue hardship and following up with a full application within a number of weeks of receiving the medical card eligibility. l assure the Deputy that the Department of Health endeavours to ensure the medical card system is responsive and sensitive to people's needs. The Department keeps medical card issues under review and any proposals are considered in the context of any potential broader implications for Government policy, the annual budgetary Estimates process and legislative requirements arising.

The most striking piece of what I have read out to the Deputy related to the grant of emergency medical cards for six months with the exception of cases of terminal illnesses. Where a person has a life-altering condition or diagnosis, there is a period of time when filling out forms is not their priority. They are instead ensuring they are in the right space to receive the right care that gives them the time to adjust and understand the life-altering news they have received and its impact on their family. It is not only the individual who is affected. The wider family is also impacted. The HSE and the Department should be looking at that temporary emergency card. We do not want to create a hierarchy of conditions or anything like that. We are talking about life-altering conditions where people are undergoing treatment or need to recover or rehabilitate for six months, at which stage the process would be reviewed.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The Minister of State has a clear understanding, as I have, of the regulations as they apply. They should be applied in a humane manner to take account of situations that may arise out of the ordinary run-of-the-mill circumstances. The HSE has to take account of a situation that may affect a family who are traumatised enough by virtue of the challenges facing them. If a person is seriously ill, the last thing he or she wants to be told is that this is the end. Who wants to tell somebody that, for God's sake? The therapy to be engaged at that stage is the kind of therapy the Minister of State has talked about and that we all know about from years of dealing with the situation.

I know the way the system is supposed to work. The Minister of State is absolutely right. I will leave the matter in her capable hands and we will talk about it at a later stage. The Minister of State knows what the story is. There is a problem in that particular section and I do not know what it is. I spent three days last summer trying to track down an individual responsible for a payment that was absolutely necessary and vital. I could not understand how it could take three days. It was not because I did not know where the various lines of communication were because I did. It took all of those three days, and that was in the summer when the days were long. It would be beneficial to the good name of the HSE, and bearing in mind the goodwill it has shown in many other cases, to look at these cases in the particular way to which the Minister of State has just referred.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I again thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to engage with him on my behalf and that of the Minister, Deputy Donnelly. The cases the Deputy has talked about are very emotive. We know that means could be a barrier but all we are looking for is temporary consideration for six months while the person concerned can adjust to the news of the diagnosis. We are not saying what the term or condition would be. Where a GP submits the MC1 form from the surgery in circumstances where the consultant has written to the GP, I take umbrage with a clerical official saying that a person does not warrant support.

The HSE needs to look at that. In fact, when it comes with medical advice for support that temporary period should not be based on a person receiving a terminal diagnosis. It is in its response that it looks at emergency cases. Emergency cases mean people with a life-altering condition or a diagnosis that has a life-altering effect on them.

Driver Test

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, on his new appointment. As he did such an amazing job as Minister of State with responsibility for sport, I was thinking about whether I would be in touch with him as much as I used to be. Then I saw that he was taking on the National Driver Licence Service, NDLS, the Road Safety Authority, RSA and driving tests and I realised I was going to be in touch just as much. I have no worries about it. Obviously, he took up the role just before Christmas but this is still January so I do not expect him to have the full ins and outs and the full details of the issues happening in those areas. At the same time I trust that he would have a fair idea of what has been happening.

I referenced in the Topical Issue specifically Skibbereen but there is an issue nationwide in regard to the time it is taking for young people in particular to sit the test. I single out young people because they are the most impacted by this. The time it is taking between finishing driving lessons and getting an actual test is an issue people coming into my office raise. A young lady from Ballinascarthy who finished her lessons came in to see me. She did everything right. She applied for the test on 7 November. She was told at that stage that she would be invited to book an actual test at the end of February or start of March, only to be told days later that it would be the first week of May before she would be actually invited to book, at which point there would be another four weeks before she would actually get the test. This is happening throughout the country. It is certainly happening throughout west Cork. What I am pleading with the Minister of State for today is to see that the resources and investment are put into that whole area of testing so that we can expedite this in order that primarily young people are not waiting such lengths of time.

A young man from Rosscarbery had an almost identical issue. He looked to book a driving test in November only to be told that it would be at least the start of May until he could be invited to book a test. This is happening wholescale. It is happening nationally but there is actually a specific issue in Skibbereen where there were two full-time testers in the test centre, but now it is down to one. Clearly, to my mind it seems obvious that is having an impact on the ground here.

Young people are eager to get driving and to have that independence. We are all aware of that and familiar with it. However there is more than that. When you let that lengthy period lapse between your last lesson and your test that could be a seven-month period. The advice is to have further lessons in the interim. In the case of that young woman from Ballinscarthy, that will cost her €700. That €700 is very hard to come by when you are a leaving certificate student. That is another thing to factor in. There are other challenges, such as travelling to work, particularly in parts of Ireland that are not well served and connected by public transport. In that instance, that sixth-year student is coming up to exam time and requires grinds in different subjects. Young people need that independence instead of always relying on their parents. That is just a brief example of what is happening on the ground.

As I said, the Minister of State is new to this role. I have massive faith in him because of how well he performed and what he has done especially for west Cork clubs in terms of funding for sports clubs and sports facilities. I have faith he will be able to turn this around.

Minister of State at the Department of the Transport (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I appreciate the kind words of Deputy O'Sullivan. It was great to be down in west Cork and see huge ambition in sport. However, now in a new role, we have to resolve some of the issues the Deputy is having in regard to transport. I know the difficulty and anxiety the delays in driver testing is causing many people who are waiting excessive times. It is unacceptable.

As the Deputy knows, the Road Safety Authority has statutory responsibility for operational aspects of the national driving test, including applications and scheduling matters. The issue of driving tests delays is a problem throughout the State which is being repeatedly raised by a number of Deputies. The current national average waiting time for invitation to test is 19 weeks, far above the service level agreement of ten weeks. Indeed, in Skibbereen, I am told the waiting time for an invitation to test is 25 weeks which is well above the current national average and the national average is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. That is what I am going to try to do.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

I thank the Minister of State. I am encouraged by the tone of his response and the fact he understands the urgency and that something needs to be done, and that he intends to look at this. I also welcome the fact that in his response he outlined the seriousness of the situation specifically in Skibbereen. He mentioned the figures there. The service level agreement is ten weeks, 19 weeks is the average and Skibbereen is facing waits of 25 weeks. That is exactly what we are hearing in the constituency office. Young people in the geographical area of west Cork are experiencing longer waiting times and are becoming frustrated. There was a question of the Skibbereen centre closing and I welcome confirmation from the RSA that it is not going to close. However, it is one thing not to close it.

It is another thing to make sure it operates efficiently and effectively and gives people the waiting time for a test they deserve. That is going to require investment and resourcing and, at the very least, it is going to require moving the Skibbereen test centre from being resourced by one tester to two. The increase of that extra driving tester will massively reduce waiting times.

There is also the parallel issue that there are many driving instructors in Skibbereen who rely on this for their income. They rely on the fact that Skibbereen is a town where people can go to do their driving test and, therefore, people choose to have their driving lessons there. There are many fantastic driving instructors in Skibbereen who rely on this and they will see the economic benefits of an extra tester being placed in Skibbereen.

Let us not forget what this is all about. It is about young people who want their independence. They want to be able to drive themselves to grinds, to work or wherever they want to go. This is what it is about. These 25-week waiting lists are just too much. Let us work to reduce that and let us get an extra tester in the Skibbereen test centre.

Deputy Jack Chambers

I absolutely agree, and I welcome the Deputy’s positive and constructive contribution on this. We have to build greater capacity. The 30% increase in permanent headcount will make an impact and, as I said, they are being deployed with a focus very much on the centres that are above the national average, which should benefit Skibbereen.

More generally, the Deputy is correct that many young people are waiting excessively for a test, which is impacting their lives in many ways, whether in terms of sport, education or a whole other range of areas. We have an obligation to deliver a public service that people expect.

We also have a new vision around road safety and road deaths. We had a difficult year last year on road deaths, but if we are ambitious on broadening road safety objectives and trying to make sure people with learner permits have the opportunity to get a test, especially those with multiple learner permits, we have to ensure we have better capacity within the driver testing system. I assure the Deputy this is an absolute priority for me and there will be ongoing engagement with the Road Safety Authority on building capacity to make this much more efficient through the year. In regard to the service level agreement, which is at ten weeks, we need to ensure we are ambitious about building a better public service for all those who are waiting.

We also know from the broader point on population demographics that there will be a growing level of demand over the coming years, and that is why we have to build on the capacity that was achieved last year with a 30% increase. I am anxious to engage with the Road Safety Authority on that and, as I said, we engaged with officials on this earlier today. We appreciate the Deputy raising the issue.

National Educational Psychological Service

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, for attending. I am glad this matter was selected because, to a certain extent, I am not surprised when we get representations in regard to waiting times for assessments, access to therapies or even National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, appointments. When I first saw the letter from the school, “NEPS” jumped out at me on the page and I thought it was going to be about the number of assessments the school had. I know many schools find it very difficult, when they only have a certain number of assessments per year, to go through their list and nearly have to pick who they think deserves it most, even though all students who need an assessment deserve it equally. The letter states the school has no NEPS psychologist and that none has been assigned to the school, which is very concerned at the loss of this vital support.

The school NEPS psychologists work with both primary and post-primary schools and are concerned with learning behaviour and social and emotional development. Each of the 221 psychologists is assigned to a group of schools and, earlier this year, this school, Newtown Dunleckney National School in Carlow, was notified that no NEPS psychologist had been assigned. Sometimes, when a Topical Issue matter is selected, I am hopeful this means there might be some positive news or development on the way, so I hope the Minister of State has some good news for that school and that it will have a NEPS psychologist. I am sure the school has furnished a copy of this letter to the Department or the Minister of State. The school is encouraging people to go to their GP to get a referral, but it knows those students are going onto a never-ending waiting list, which is extremely demoralising.

At the end of all of this, we have to think of the children who are being denied access to a full and proper education if they need an assessment and are not getting that, particularly if there is no psychologist. It sometimes happens that if there is any sort of sudden or tragic event in a school, it is usually the NEPS psychologist who is called in, so what does a school in this situation do? That is just one part of it. The main thing is the assessments children vitally need, given the difference it can make to a child in terms of being able to access additional resource hours or access to a special needs assistant.

We are always told people do not necessarily need a diagnosis, yet experience would say different. People will say that when they are trying to access these resource hours, special needs assistants or additional supports, they are told they need to have a diagnosis. I would be interested to hear what the Minister of State has to stay to that particular school on not having a NEPS psychologist.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

I thank the Deputy for raising this Topical Issue matter. In my capacity as Minister of State with responsibility for special education, NEPS is not directly under my remit but, notwithstanding that, I am very happy to talk about it this evening. Obviously, it is a separate service to special needs assistants, SNAs, and special education teachers, but NEPS is a very important service that is provided to all 4,000 primary and post-primary schools.

The Deputy mentioned, for example, what would happen in the circumstances of a tragic event. It is important for the Deputy and the House if I outline how NEPS works in those circumstances. First, there will be direct engagement where there is what it would call a “critical incident”, which would be, for example, a tragic situation in a particular school.

I have made inquiries specifically in regard to Newtown Dunleckney National School because, as the Deputy said, this is a Topical Issue matter that is particular and pertinent to this school. The Deputy will understand that in any national service at any given time, there can be gaps. My understanding in regard to the psychologist in that particular school is that the person was promoted. It can happen at any given time in a national service that a psychologist, or whatever person, can be absent for a number of reasons, for example, due to promotion, retirement, sick leave, maternity leave or a myriad of different reasons. Where there are gaps in the NEPS system for a particular school, the school can contact NEPS directly. The school has not contacted NEPS directly and I want the Deputy to be aware of that. I would suggest that, following this Topical Issue matter, the Deputy can let the school know she brought it up with me directly this evening in the Dáil Chamber and the school should contact NEPS head office for support until that recruitment process has been completed. While it has been brought up in parliamentary questions and here in the Dáil Chamber, it has not been brought up directly by the school with NEPS. That is the first thing that needs to be done.

What can happen is one of two things. The school can either get support from the regional team through the NEPS head office, and there is a private psychological service that can be availed of, which is under the scheme for the commissioning of psychological assessments, SCPA, which can be relied upon on occasion. Therefore, it is either the regional teams through NEPS head office or the private psychological service.

That is the way that I would suggest the school should proceed if it wants to get extra support, should it require it.

It is incorrect to say that at any given time, a psychologist is removed from a school because that never happens. It is never the case. As I stated, across any national service, there is absenteeism for various reasons but the gaps are filled by others. In this particular instance, the written statement that I have, which I am sure the Deputy has a copy of, is directly from the Department and uses language that I am trying to make more easily digestible in terms of what the school should do from a practical perspective. It sets out quite clearly the steps concerning the type of model that is used and the fact that there is an assigned psychologist. There is an advisory support from an allocated psychologist, so there are people available to respond to queries. However, from a practical perspective, that is what I think the school should do.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I thank the Minister of State. I will talk to the school about contacting NEPS directly and about what I would describe as interim measures in terms of the regional team. I imagine the regional team could be overstretched as well, but I do not know that. It is, however, a common occurrence.

In regard to what the Minister of State says about no school being without a NEPS psychologist, obviously some schools do not have one if the person concerned got a promotion. Perhaps it is not the only school affected. I imagine that a number of schools is assigned to each psychologist. The school in question is very much of the opinion that it was informed that there is not a psychologist assigned to it. I do not know if there has been a breakdown in communication but that is the information the school has got when it has children waiting to be referred for assessment. I disagree with what the Minister of State has said about the school having a NEPS psychologist because with all due respect, the school would not have contacted me and asked me to raise it if it had access to the service.

Is the private service to which the Minister of State referred something a school can avail of? Is there a cost to the school or is it covered? I would imagine that if there is a cost to the school that it would not be an option for the vast majority of schools, which we already know are under pressure in terms of fundraising and everything else, in particular with the increased costs. It is interesting to hear about the private service if it is something the school can access in the interim because it might be a helpful stopgap while waiting for somebody to be appointed.

I assume that a person will be appointed as a psychologist to the school, or whatever group of schools in the area that is potentially missing a psychologist as a result of the promotion.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

To be clear, the Deputy is correct that there is not an assigned psychologist available at present. The point that I was trying to make is that the school does continue to have access to support and development work, which is delivered by the local team for critical incident response, as outlined by the Deputy. There is advisory support as well from an allocated psychologist for pupil casework. There is also an advisory psychologist who can respond to any queries that the school may have, and support from SCPA, which is the private service. I do not know whether there is a cost implication for this service, so I do not want to comment on it, but it is worth the school inquiring. We have 225 psychologists throughout the country across eight different NEPS regions. In 2014, there were only 173. There was an increase of 54 in this budget.

Deputy Funchion asked about the recruitment of a psychologist. The competition is ongoing at present. Like any national service, there are gaps but it is important to say that there is access to a psychologist for the school. Deputy Funchion has brought the matter to my attention again today, which will bring it to the attention of the Department. It is also worth the school contacting NEPS directly and inquiring about the private service if the NEPS regional team is not itself in a position to assist. There are a lot of supports in place for well-being and counselling and other such measures that will assist the school.

Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence

Deputy Holly Cairns

Last week was the first anniversary of Ashling Murphy's murder. Since then, a further 16 women have been killed on the island of Ireland, including two already this year, namely, Bruna Fonseca, and Maud Coffey. NGOs and campaigners have rightly called this an epidemic of gender-based violence. More than 250 women have been violently killed since 1996 and in the vast majority of resolved cases, they were killed by a man known to them. In half the cases, they were killed by a current or former partner. We must call this what it is: femicide. Misogyny remains deeply rooted in society. These murders are just the tip of the iceberg. The epidemic is manifest in countless cases of assaults, domestic violence, torture, coercive control, financial abuse, harassment, stalking and so-called revenge porn. The horrifying list goes on.

Last year, vigils were held across the country and there was a national demand for action. However, we must be honest and ask what has changed. Women continue to be killed, to live in fear and to message when they are home safely. While this is a complex issue that needs responses from all of society, there are concrete things that the Government can and must do more quickly to confront gender-based violence. These are just some examples: first, we need more refuge spaces. Safe Ireland's pre-budget submission shows that the State only provides 29% of the required refuge spaces. The Istanbul Convention's standard is one space per 10,000 people and Ireland only provides a fraction of that. Cork city and county, with a population of more than 500,000, should have 54 spaces and it has six. I have repeatedly raised this matter. This week last year, speaking on Ashling Murphy's death, I called for additional funding to provide these refuge spaces. Again today, I reiterate that call.

The next issue I wish to raise is domestic violence leave. I welcome the legislation bringing in domestic violence leave. However, it is recommended that this leave be up to ten days annually. The legislation only allows for five days, half of what is required.

The third area relates to reform of the justice system. While there have been some very welcome and much-needed changes, victims and survivors are still experiencing hostile systems and there is still massive under-reporting of these crimes.

The final issue I wish to raise is education, education, education. Social, personal and health education is scandalously outdated and, as a result, it is harmful. There is an immediate need for education on consent, sexual violence, coercion and online abuse. Shamefully, there are groups - even Members of this House - opposing these vital reforms.

In November 2021, the Government delayed the progress of the Social Democrats Bill introduced by Deputy Gannon on relationships and sex education. The Minister for Education must immediately bring in a new curriculum and training for teachers to provide young people with the skills and knowledge to help them develop respectful social and sexual relationships.

I accept that the Government is committed to addressing gender-based violence but to be fair, with the political will, considerably more could be done. One significant step the Minister for Justice could take is to immediately meet those working in this sector, especially organisations such as Safe Ireland, Women's Aid, and the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. They are the experts and they know exactly what changes are needed across all Departments and public services. The Government should meet them and listen to them. We are just 18 days into the new year and we already have had two killings. This trend cannot be allowed to continue. There is more the Government can do and it must do it now.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

Like the rest of the country, my thoughts continue to be very much with the loved ones of Ashling Murphy, in particular as the Deputy states, we have just marked the anniversary of her murder.

The Minister, Deputy Harris, and I both welcome that the Deputy has tabled this issue for discussion, because tackling all forms of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence is, and will continue to be, a key priority for this Government. I cannot sufficiently underscore the commitment across the Government to tackling these hideous crimes and to address the underlying issues. As Deputy Cairns states, there must be collaboration with our partners and with all of society to try to prevent all forms of violence against women and to change the problematic attitudes that underpin it.

We are also trying to improve and increase the supports that are available. We are putting in place new structures to ensure that we can deliver the systems and supports that victims and survivors so badly need. The Deputy mentioned a victim-centred criminal justice system that would support victims from the moment they report a crime right through the court proceedings and beyond. Procedures and processes have to be in place to hold perpetrators to account. There has to be a full range of supports and services available to victims of these terrible crimes regardless of where they live. We should continue to work with society to educate and raise awareness of all forms of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and enable everyone to question and change problematic behaviours.

Over the course of the past year, significant strides have been made in implementing Supporting a Victim's Journey, the plan to improve the experience of vulnerable victims as they engage with the criminal justice system. We want better training for professionals and the establishment of a course to train intermediaries. There is also the roll-out out of divisional protective services units in each Garda division, the introduction of preliminary trial hearings, and the provision of extra funding for organisations supporting victims, to address gaps in service provision by type and location.

The zero-tolerance strategy the Minister, Deputy McEntee, launched is a five-year, ambitious, whole-of-government strategy. We all know its headings: protection, prevention, prosecution and policy co-ordination. It was developed in partnership with domestic, sexual, and gender-based violence partners and that sector. They have had direct input, which will help. It comprises 144 actions that have to be delivered. The legislation that the Minister, Deputy Harris, is bringing forward will increase the maximum sentence for assault causing harm; it is being doubled from five years to ten. Other legislation will include the monitoring of sex offenders, strengthen victims' rights, and make stalking and non-fatal strangulation stand-alone offences. The Deputy specifically mentioned refuge spaces, which she has been advocating on for quite some time. That has started and will continue.

I was struck by one of the matters the Deputy mentioned, namely, under-reporting. I grew up in a very different era to the Deputy. There is still under-reporting. There was certainly a lot of under-reporting in my day, which is continuing. This morning, I attended a spin class very near where I live. I was crossing the road after the class, in my cycling shorts, and was verbally abused by a man who came towards me. I got such a shock that I did not even think it was directed towards me until I got into my car and he continued the abuse. I reported that incident today. I might not have reported that 20 or 30 years ago because that is what we do as victims. We think we are being silly and we maybe feel stupid reporting it but we must tackle that type of misogyny at the level of something as basic as that. It is completely unacceptable. Even though it is not a murder like that of Ashling Murphy, such misogyny runs the gamut. That is what is happening in society. We have to stamp it out. I said to myself, if we are talking about a strategy, I have to embody it too and have a zero-tolerance approach. We all have to. It takes men as well, if they see such incidents or conversations happening that are not acceptable to women, they also need to call that out. We all have to play our part.

Deputy Holly Cairns

I thank the Minister of State for her response and for outlining all the actions the Government has been taking. I also thank her for telling her story about what happened today. Well done. She is right that such behaviour absolutely needs to be reported. A key point she raised is that for too long only half the population have been having this conversation. Girls and women know this reality inside out. We need structures and resources to help men have these necessary discussions.

The Minister of State spoke about how we are seeing people report these crimes more and more and how good that is from a generational perspective but, to take cases of rape as an isolated example outside all other gender-based violence, less than 1% of victims get justice. Even though we have moved some bit forward, it is important for us to recognise how far we have to go. The figure is less than 1%.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Deputy for her advocacy in this regard. I can hear the passion when she talks about this matter. Domestic violence has increased and has in fact doubled in the past 15 years. In my previous life as a family lawyer, l dealt with many women, and some men, who were victims of domestic violence. Ms Sarah Grace has spoken very eloquently on the criminal justice system. I could use the term "in part", but to a large extent many victims did not come forward because of their fear of the criminal justice system and facing that. The fact that we now have Garda training will help a lot. Gardaí are better equipped in how to deal with this violence. Judges also need training to deal with victims, and to make the process more victim friendly and victim centred, so there is not that fear and, primarily, that the woman is believed.

Much legislation has been brought in relating to this area, such as Coco's Law. There is now legislation around coercive control, which the Deputy mentioned, and consent, which did not even exist when I was growing up. We have made huge strides but this is, as it is called in France, the grande cause nationale. It is something that will never go away. We have to stop it at its grassroots level before it becomes something really violent, similar to what happened to Ashling Murphy and the more than 200 women who have died since 1996.

I thank the Deputy for her efforts on this issue. The Minister, Deputy Harris, has a zero-tolerance approach to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, as does the Government. For my part, I will also continue to advocate.

Is féidir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scríofa ar www.oireachtas.ie .

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 8.59 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Déardaoin, an 19 Eanáir 2023.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.59 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Thursday, 19 January 2023.