Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 31 Jan 2023

Vol. 1032 No. 4

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Protocol and arrangements for President Metsola’s address to a Joint Sitting of both Houses of the Oireachtas (without debate)

- Statements post European Council meeting of 15-16 December 2022 pursuant to Standing Order 124 (not to exceed 130 mins, including 20 mins Q&A)

Private members' business shall be the Motion re Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Presentation and Circulation of Further Revised Estimate [Vote 11] (without debate)

- Motion re Committee consideration of Estimates for Public Services 2023 (without debate)

- Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Bill 2022 (Second Stage) (if not previously concluded, to be interrupted either at 4 p.m. or 1 hr and 9 mins after the conclusion of the SOS, whichever is the later)

- Oil Emergency Contingency and Transfer of Renewable Transport Fuels Functions Bill 2023 (Report and Final Stages) (to be taken no earlier than 4 p.m.)

- Central Bank (Individual Accountability Framework) Bill 2022 (Report and Final Stages)

- Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022 (Report and Final Stages) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn 4 hours and 30 mins after the commencement of the Oil Emergency Contingency and Transfer of Renewable Transport Fuels Functions Bill 2023)

Private members' business shall be the Motion re Local Ringfencing of Council Development Levies, selected by the Independent Group.

On the resumption of the Dáil on Thursday following the joint sitting for the purposes of an address by H.E. Roberta Metsola, President of the European Parliament, the business shall be:

- Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Bill 2022 (Second Stage, resumed if not previously concluded) (if not previously concluded, to stand adjourned at 5.30 p.m.)

Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Report entitled “Report on the Summer Programme 2023” by the Joint Committee on Autism.

Announcement of proposed arrangements for this week's business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that private members' business may be taken earlier than 6.12 p.m. and shall, in any event, be taken on the conclusion of Government business, with consequential effect on the commencement time for Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and topical issues, and on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the Motion re Protocol and arrangements for President Metsola’s address to a Joint Sitting of both Houses of the Oireachtas shall be taken without debate; and

3. the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the Statements post European Council meeting of 15-16 December 2022 pursuant to Standing Order 124:

(i) the statements shall consist of a single round, which shall not exceed 100 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for that time, followed by questions and answers which shall not exceed 20 minutes;

(ii) following the questions and answers, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

In relation to Wednesday’s business:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that the weekly division time shall be taken on either the conclusion or adjournment of proceedings on the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the Motion re Presentation and Circulation of Further Revised Estimate [Vote 11] shall be taken without debate;

3. the Motion re Committee consideration of Estimates for Public Services 2023 shall be taken without debate;

4. the proceedings on Second Stage of the Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Bill 2022, shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 4 p.m. or 1 hour and 9 minutes after the conclusion of the SOS, whichever is the later, and the Bill shall not be resumed on Wednesday;

5. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Oil Emergency Contingency and Transfer of Renewable Transport Fuels Functions Bill 2023 shall be taken no earlier than 4 p.m.; and

6. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned 4 hours and 30 minutes after the commencement of proceedings on the Oil Emergency Contingency and Transfer of Renewable Transport Fuels Functions Bill 2023.

In relation to Thursday's business:

1. subject to any further Resolution of the Dáil in relation to a joint sitting, the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) there shall be no SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1);

(ii) the proceedings on Government business shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned at 5.30 p.m.;

(iii) topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 37 shall be taken either at 5.30 p.m. or on the conclusion of Government business, whichever is the earlier;

(iv) the Motion re Report entitled “Report on Summer Programme 2023" shall be taken on the conclusion of topical issues and shall, notwithstanding the Order of the Dáil of 10th September, 2020, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 120 minutes; and

(v) the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of the Motion re Report entitled “Report on Summer Programme 2023" until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 8th February, 2023; and

2. the speaking arrangements as provided for in Standing Order 102 shall apply to the proceedings on the Motion re Report entitled ‘Report on the Summer Programme 2023’ and Senator Micheál Carrigy may attend and be heard during the proceedings.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

In recent days, more and more information has come into the public domain around the issue of nursing home charges. Public concern is growing. It is essential that the Minister for Health comes into the Dáil this week to make a statement and take questions and answers. It is essential that it happens this week and we propose that.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

The Business Committee agreed this yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Business Committee met yesterday and discussed this matter.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

There has been more information this morning. This issue is growing.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It is nearly three weeks since the former Minister of State, Deputy English, resigned but no statement has been made in this House about the reasons for that. On two occasions, I have raised with the Taoiseach what further action he intends to take. A fortnight ago, he responded to me that party matters are separate and that Fine Gael has a party disciplinary process. Last week, he said it was a matter for Meath County Council and not the Government. Meanwhile, thousands of people across the country who gave accurate information on planning applications and were refused permission to build homes will be rightly asking what is going to happen next and asking us questions about what is to happen. Will the former Minister of State, Deputy English, be making a statement to the House? What action does the Taoiseach propose to take on this? I have raised this on two occasions and sought a response from the Taoiseach. I am raising it one final time.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Yesterday, the Irish Examiner reported that there has been a massive increase in excess deaths in recent weeks. It reported that in an eight-week period up to 25 January, there were 3,000 excess deaths compared with 2019. EUROSTAT, the CSO, coroners, mortuaries, undertakers and parish priests all report this massive increase in excess deaths. We have been calling for an investigation to find out what is happening. Nothing is forthcoming from the Government. We need to have a debate. These figures are incredible and they need to be analysed quickly to see what is behind them.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

May I remind the Taoiseach that at the time he was signing off on secret payouts to people who had been forced to pay nursing home fees that they should not have had to pay, in order to contain potential cases being taken by other people who were entitled to refunds, ordinary people in this country were being absolutely crucified by the Government of which he was a part to pay off bondholders? The Taoiseach says he does not remember who briefed him or what the briefing was. I put it to the Taoiseach that he owes it to the people of this country to find out what he knew, and when he knew it, when he was signing off. The same information is also required in respect of other Ministers. Statements are required from the Taoiseach and anyone else who was involved in signing off these payments, which were made on a condition of secrecy in order that people entitled to other repayments would not be aware of them. Will the Taoiseach and the other Ministers involved in this commit to come in and clarify what they knew and when they knew it?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

My colleagues in the Rural Independent Group and I have been asking for a reasonable, calm and sincere debate about inward migration here, the issues around it and the strife it is causing in communities. I met some people from Lismore, which is a lovely heritage town in County Waterford, outside this House today. They are self-employed and retired people. They are good people. They already have 35 and they have no problem with them. They do not mind 120 more coming if they go into the old hospital that has closed down or some other buildings, but not the hotel. They were up here with Fáilte Ireland at the weekend to promote the town for tourism. Now it is being proposed to take over a hotel in the town that has been renovated for tourism. There is a lack of information for people. It is the same in Cahir. The old Bank of Ireland, which was recently closed, and the adjoining buildings are meant to be a housing centre. There are rumours. We want to have a debate in the Chamber. The whole country is talking about it. We seem to be an echo chamber here where we cannot discuss it. We need a reasonable debate here. We need a better flow of information to ourselves and the public from the Ministers in charge of this.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you very much.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We need to try to work together. Ní neart go cur le chéile.

The Taoiseach

The Business Committee, I think quite sensibly, has agreed that we will have statements next week on the first matter to be raised, which goes back to the 1970s. I think it is important that people should know the facts before they make statements. Nobody wants to come in here and make a statement and then find out that something they have said is incorrect. That can happen-----

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

-----with regard to things that happened six, eight or ten years ago.

Some of the people who are laughing at me are people who had to change their own declarations on multiple occasions. It is a little much. Ministers want some time to look at documents and check the records before making statements. I am here twice a week and am happy to answer any questions the Deputy wants to put to me. I think the Joint Committee on Health is going to want to look into this too. If the Deputy's inference is that I signed off on any individual payments or was involved in any individual cases, that is not the case. No Minister would have been. That is simply not true.

Regarding Deputy English-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

You authorised the policy.

The Taoiseach

Deputy English has resigned as Minister of State. Anything to do with planning or enforcement law, as I have said, is a matter for Meath County Council.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

They will not answer.

The Taoiseach

The internal procedures we have in our party are confidential and are internal matters, just as the Deputy's are. I know there are disciplinary matters under way in the Labour Party at the moment. I would not ask her questions about those in the Dáil.

With regard to Deputy Tóibín's question on excess deaths, I am aware that in Ireland and in a lot of countries there has been a significant increase in excess deaths this winter, even more so than was the case during the pandemic, or at least during the lockdowns. That is a matter of concern. I am going to seek the advice and opinion of the Chief Medical Officer, CMO, on it. It probably relates to the fact that RSV, influenza and Covid are all circulating at the moment, against the backdrop of reduced immunity because people were socially distancing during the lockdowns, and also because there was a lot of unmet health need during the lockdowns, which is now coming back at us, but that is just my impression. I agree that it needs some further consideration and I will ask the CMO for her view on it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The immigration issue, Taoiseach.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Do I even get an answer?

The Taoiseach

My understanding is there is to be a debate next week.

Deputy Hildegarde Naughton

The week after next. We discussed that at the Business Committee.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 73; Níl, 56; Staon, 2.

Tá

• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Burke, Colm.
• Burke, Peter.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Jackie.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carey, Joe.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Collins, Niall.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Creed, Michael.
• Crowe, Cathal.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donnelly, Stephen.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Foley, Norma.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harris, Simon.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Hourigan, Neasa.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.
• Varadkar, Leo.

Níl

• Bacik, Ivana.
• Berry, Cathal.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Browne, Martin.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Michael.
• Conway-Walsh, Rose.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Daly, Pa.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Funchion, Kathleen.
• Gould, Thomas.
• Guirke, Johnny.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kenny, Gino.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Munster, Imelda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• Nolan, Carol.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Bríd.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Ward, Mark.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

• Collins, Joan.
• Pringle, Thomas.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Denise Mitchell.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am sure people will have heard very clearly that not alone had the Taoiseach been briefed on and overseen the legal strategy to frustrate those who had been illegally charged in getting their money back but that, in fact, he supports that strategy, and I assume that stands for his colleague, the Minister, Deputy Simon Harris. It needs to be said that neither the Ombudsman nor the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission shared the Taoiseach's confidence in the State's legal position. As a matter of fact, the strategy was to settle before discovery because the State was very concerned it was on the wrong side of the law and, indeed, the State never found what it would term a "suitable case" to go to trial on. For all the Taoiseach's bombast here this afternoon, the State and Governments of which he was a member - indeed, he was a serving Minister for Health - never had the confidence to go to trial.

In 2017, there were still 220 claims in the system. Could the Taoiseach tell the House how many claims there are, as of today?

The Taoiseach

Deputy McDonald keeps using the term "illegal charges". I will keep saying to her that we do not accept that. The Health Act 1970 does not provide free private nursing home care for people with medical cards. That is the view of the Government. We have bona fide defences in that regard. They were prepared by the Attorney General down the years.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That is contested.

The Taoiseach

Anything can be contested, but the Deputy keeps making a bogus assertion which is unproven, that these charges were illegal. She can make it all she likes, but it is not the case. It is certainly unproven. All cases were not settled. In some cases, claims were settled without any payment. I do not have the up-to-date numbers, but I will ask the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, to provide them for the Deputy.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I asked how many cases there are, as of today, that are still live.

The Taoiseach

I do not know, but I will ask the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, to provide them for the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I wish to raise the rights of the Palestinian people, in particular their plight, given the recent formation of a new far-right government in Israel and the actions it has taken to date, many of which expressly break international law. We are seeing appalling reports about the killing of civilians, the incarceration of children, the destruction of homes, the expansion of illegal settlements and the segregation of society. All of these developments contravene the rights of the Palestinian people.

I welcome the statement from the Tánaiste last week. While in Brussels for a meeting with EU foreign ministers, he called on Israeli authorities to pay compensation for the destruction of EU-funded buildings in occupied Palestine. That is a very important call. It is more than 18 months since the Dáil voted to condemn the de facto annexation of Palestinian land. In light of that vote, will the Government agree to take on the occupied territories Bill to ensure that Ireland shows very strong support for an end to illegal settlements and stands up for the rights of Palestinians?

The Taoiseach

I will have to consult with the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and the Tánaiste on that. I believe one of the difficulties with the legislation was the view that it conflicts with European law that trade is the sole competence of the European Union.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That is contested too.

Deputy Holly Cairns

The National Ambulance Service has been under-resourced and overstretched for years. We have an insufficient number of operational vehicles and paramedics are being forced to work dangerously long shifts due to staff shortages. It is no exaggeration to say that it is costing lives.

This issue has a particular impact on rural populations. I have constituents in west Cork who are fearful of what will happen in an emergency situation given that they live so far away from a hospital. A major issue is that the ambulances are assigned according to population rather than population and the geographical spread of an area. Places like Cork South-West are spread over a huge geographical area and people are put at risk under this policy. There needs to be a significant increase in investment in the ambulance service. Currently, west Cork is assigned one rapid response vehicle, RRV, and that is only for 12 hours out of 24. At the very least, we need a 24-hour cover rapid response vehicle as well as additional vehicles and staff.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Cairns for raising this important matter. As she knows, we are investing in the ambulance service all the time, with more vehicles, more bases and more paramedics. I acknowledge that we have to take into account both population and population density. A rural area needs more ambulances than an urban one, or at least we need to take into account both population and geography for reasons we both understand. I will mention to the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, the request for a 24-7 RRV.

Deputy Gino Kenny

My question relates to nursing home charges, which is an ongoing issue.

I understand this goes back a number of decades and the information can be quite opaque, but it raises many questions regarding how the Department of Health and successive governments dealt with this issue. My question is valid and it is to be hoped the Taoiseach can answer it. There are issues in respect of families who were financially burdened with costs. Are there any outstanding liabilities that families and individuals have at present?

The Taoiseach

I am not entirely sure what the Deputy means by "outstanding liabilities". There are still cases; some are dormant and some have not been settled. I am not sure what he means by liabilities.

Deputy Gino Kenny

Financial liabilities to families that are going through the courts. According to this document, some €5 billion is-----

The Taoiseach

Okay. The €5 billion was an estimate related to public nursing homes and not private nursing homes. A scheme was set up - I do not know when but under then Minister for Health, Mary Harney - to compensate people who were charged in public nursing homes. The initial estimate was €5 billion. By the time the scheme was developed, it came down by €1 billion. In the end, €480 million was paid out. These figures we hear, whether €5 billion, €7 billion or €12 billion, have no validity any more. They were way off the mark. However, there are still cases outstanding.

Deputy Cathal Berry

We are all aware the VAT rate for the hospitality sector is scheduled to increase from 9% to 13.5% on 1 March, which is pretty much four weeks from today. In light of last year's exceptional Exchequer returns, an additional surplus of €5.2 billion, and something similar being expected for this year, there are many positive soundings in the media that this 9% rate might perhaps be maintained. What is the Taoiseach's view of maintaining that 9% rate? When are we likely to get a definitive decision in order that businesses and customers can plan accordingly?

The Taoiseach

No decisions have been made on that yet. We hope to make a decision no later than the middle of February in order that people get advance notice. I take the Deputy's point that we are probably heading for a budget surplus again this year. We had a budget surplus of €5 billion last year but we should never forget that we also have a debt of €250 billion. It is not a debt we have to pay back but is one we have to service every year. As interest rates rise, that will become more expensive.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The men's sheds and, indeed, women's sheds in Ireland are wonderful groups of people. They do so much for people's mental and physical health, well-being and everything else. When a €2 million fund was announced in November, they were delighted that each sheds' group would get €2,000, even though they did not get much time to apply. Some of the Taoiseach's colleagues proclaimed that funding all over social media. However, there is now a problem. In Tipperary, many of these groups are associated with family resource centres, which are okay because they can claim the money. However, the stand-alone sheds cannot claim this money, which is going to the Irish Men's Sheds Association. That is no good to the people on the ground, their mental or physical health, what they do and the help they give communities. Something needs to be done. The Department of Rural and Community Development needs to tweak this funding to ensure the men's sheds that need the money get it. If they are not associated with the Irish Men's Sheds Association, they will not get their money. It is meant for the groups on the ground that have to get this money as they badly need it. They have many ways to spend it because ESB and energy costs mean they need it badly.

The Taoiseach

I was not aware that this matter was an issue. I will contact the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Humphreys, about it and we will see what we can do.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

Over the weekend, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, announced funding for Killybegs Harbour Centre. On the face of it, this is very welcome funding and is very badly needed. He announced €8.75 million in funding for that centre. However, in July last year, he announced €9.2 million - inflation saved a little there - and the year before that he announced €10.5 million. In 2019, an announcement of €5 million was made and in 2017 funding of €6.2 million was announced. What is the actual amount that has been allocated to Killybegs in 2022? I assume it is probably approximately €1 million or something like that, but it is a cumulative amount that is added on all the time. If that is the amount that is added, it raises further questions as to why the pier extension in Killybegs has already cost €40 million. What is the story on this?

The Taoiseach

I honestly do not know, but I think the Deputy and I are both very much in favour of investment in Killybegs. It is an important harbour. It has a lot to offer, not just in respect of fisheries-----

Deputy Thomas Pringle

Will there be investment?

The Taoiseach

-----but also in respect of offshore wind, but taxpayers' money should always be spent well. I do not know the answer to the Deputy's question but I will certainly ask the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, to come back to him directly.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

In light of the decision by the High Court yesterday obliging An Bord Pleanála to revisit the planning application for the Galway ring road in the context of the climate action plan, it is now time to consider urgently the public transport options that are available and are presenting to us right now to ease traffic congestion in Galway city. I am thinking particularly of those commuters, just under 2,000 of them, who travel from Athenry and Oranmore into Galway city every day. In this Chamber, in September 2020, I asked the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, about an ongoing feasibility study into the double-tracking of and the improvement of frequency on those services from Athenry to Oranmore. I was told the feasibility study would produce a report in the first quarter of 2021. We are now in the first quarter of 2023 and I understand that the feasibility study has now been somehow attached to the all-island rail review, which cannot be reported on until such time as a Northern Ireland executive forms. I ask the Taoiseach to engage with the Minister and to ask him to prioritise this as a matter of urgency in order that there are genuinely alternative travel options available to people travelling into Galway city.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Much and all as I would like to let you continue, Deputy, we are way over time.

The Taoiseach

I will definitely take that up with the Minister, Deputy Ryan. He and I are both in favour of double-tracking to Galway and the development of a commuter rail service around Galway city. I do not see why it should be held up by the all-island rail review. That is not the case for Cork or Limerick, so I do not see why it should be for Galway. We will check that out. I remain a supporter of the bypass but, obviously, that is a matter for An Bord Pleanála to decide on.

Deputy Cormac Devlin

The Taoiseach will be aware of the case of Bernard Phelan, an Irish citizen imprisoned in Iran. Bernard was born in Clonmel and raised in Blackrock, in my constituency of Dún Laoghaire. He was arrested on 3 October last year and is one of a number of European citizens being held in Iran. I understand that Bernard has cardiac and other medical conditions. His elderly father and his family are extremely concerned for his health and well-being. I have raised this matter with the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs but I would be grateful if the Taoiseach could raise it directly with President Ebrahim Raisi.

The Taoiseach

I am familiar with the case. It is a very sad one, and I hope Mr. Phelan is able to get back to Ireland as soon as possible. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, had a very lengthy call - I think it was nearly an hour long - trying to make the case on his behalf and to secure his release. I do not have any engagements with the Iranian Government in the diary at the moment but I will certainly make inquiries as to whether one is possible. I would be happy to add my voice to the efforts to secure Mr. Phelan's release.

Deputy Matt Carthy

The Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, informed the Committee on Environment and Climate Action today that electricity customers who were overcharged as a result of the large energy user rebalancing scheme will be compensated. This was a scandalous scheme that forced ordinary households to subsidise some of the biggest and wealthiest companies not only in Ireland but across the world. Last week, when I raised this with the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, he defended the scheme and refused to answer my request that the excess charges be repaid. I therefore welcome the statement from the CRU, but I ask the Taoiseach to inform us as to when customers will get their money back. Will that money come from the companies that benefited from their overcharging and not from taxpayers?

The Taoiseach

I honestly do not know what the situation with refunds is, if there are to be any, so I will have to defer to the Minister, Deputy Ryan, on that. My understanding is that this was essentially like a bulk-buy discount. Somebody who buys things in large volumes will often get a lower price for them. That is not unusual. I was not aware that there would be any sort of rebate-----

Deputy Matt Carthy

Somebody else is paying for it: ordinary households.

The Taoiseach

-----but I will check it out.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Over the past six months I have repeatedly raised the question of the plight of a large number of women the length and breadth of this country who find themselves subjected to extraordinary abusive situations whereby in many cases they are not allowed to meet or to see their children except by telephone. Nothing appears to be happening as a matter of urgency, but something must happen as a matter of urgency. Otherwise, this House will be turning its back on the women who are mothers who are being subjected to this treatment. I ask the Taoiseach or the Minister what action is proposed.

Minister for Justice (Deputy Simon Harris)

I thank Deputy Durkan for consistently raising this issue. I will make a number of quick points. First, we will introduce the Family Courts Bill into the Seanad this week. That is a really important reform of how our courts work in this regard. My colleague, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, held a public consultation on the topic of parental alienation. We are currently reviewing all the responses. The Department of Justice has also arranged for a stand-alone piece of independent research on parental alienation, which I have now received. I have also asked my Department to prioritise immediately a review of section 47 of the Family Law Act. I will keep in close contact with the Deputy.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that the dedicated mortgage advisers employed by the Money Advice & Budgeting Service, MABS, do a tremendous job at very little cost to the taxpayer, but is he aware that they have no security of tenure? Their contract is simply renewed annually and the practice is to tell them only at the last moment whether or not their contract will be renewed. Obviously, that is very unsatisfactory for the people doing that job. Is the Taoiseach aware also that the budget for this service was cut substantially this year? In my area the cut in real terms came to about 25%. There are 46,000 mortgage arrears cases in the country at present and interest rates are rising. Will the Taoiseach commit to put this service on a proper footing for the people who practise with these unfortunate people who are in arrears and, also, that a proper budget will be allocated towards that? This is vital and critical work and likely to become more so.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I am familiar with the service. I was involved in setting it up with the then Minister, Frances Fitzgerald, when I was in the Department of Social Protection and she was in the Department of Justice. It is a very good service. It has probably been wound back in recent years because of the falling number of mortgage arrears, but the Deputy makes a valid point that with interest rates rising we may see an increase in the number of people in arrears. I will definitely talk to my colleagues in the Government about it and see if we can have an examination done not only of further resources but also of the valid point the Deputy makes, that the people providing these services need to have some sort of job security.

Deputy Michael McNamara

A surgical hub is part of the proposed solution to overcrowding and long waiting lists in Limerick. Since Christmas, however, two newly equipped theatres in Ennis have not been used and the highly trained and expert staff who would normally work there are now diverted to general work around the hospital. In circumstances where we have surgical facilities in the mid-west which are not used, it is difficult to see how going to the expense of developing another facility will add to the solution. Will the Taoiseach find out, or does he know, what the problem is and why the existing facilities are so underutilised? The same is true of Nenagh. I am led to believe that it is because of the new protocol and that the staff have been moved to alternative work. I asked what additional resources would be provided because of the protocol last week and await a reply from the Taoiseach. We need to use the facilities we have before we talk about building other ones.

The Taoiseach

I do not know the reasons for that. I will certainly make inquiries. I agree with the Deputy's point. If we are putting additional elective capacity and theatres into Ennis, Nenagh and Croom, for example, it makes sense to use them rather than building new ones, at least in the first instance. I have heard of similar issues. The surgical hub in Tallaght, for example, has four theatres but only two operating. I am told that it is down to staffing issues, but perhaps there is more to it than that.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I asked in a parliamentary question the number of learner drivers awaiting a test date in County Carlow. On 31 December 2022 more than 1,073 were awaiting a test date. A further 955 have been issued with an invitation to book a test but have not used it within ten days. Only 316 lucky people have been allocated a test. I have been calling for increased resources for the service. The earliest test appointment in Carlow I could find using the Road Safety Authority, RSA, estimator this morning was in August. That is unacceptable. My county is a rural one. People including young students - Carlow is now a university town, which is excellent - are coming to me because they cannot get to school or into towns. Also, we need to recruit more.

I know a recruitment campaign has been carried out. There were 100 permanent testers and now there are 30 extra but that is not enough. I ask that more testers be recruited and that as many tests as possible are done.

The Taoiseach

I appreciate that this is a severe problem and that people need their cars, particularly in rural areas, whether it is to get to work or to college. This is a barrier we need to remove. We have managed to get on top of a few significant delays recently around passports and work permits and I am sure we will get on top of this too. I appreciate that the Deputy has reminded me of it again today.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The programme for Government commits to a better quality of life and to addressing the cost-of-living crisis. One aspect of quality of life is access to sports events. It may be of interest to the Taoiseach to know that the biggest Republic of Ireland soccer supporters network is a group called the Ballybrack Seagulls, which has had an arrangement with the Football Association of Ireland, FAI, for the last ten years under which it buys season tickets and gets discounted tickets for young people. They are the fans we always see, even when there is not a full attendance and it may not be such a popular game. A big game with France is coming up and, interestingly, the FAI has pulled out of the arrangement it had with the Ballybrack Seagulls for ten years. Under the annual agreed arrangement, it cost €235 for a season ticket and €55 for a young person, which was discounted. The FAI has come back to the Ballybrack Seagulls and said a season ticket would cost €400 and there would be no discounts for young people. I ask the Taoiseach to ask the Minister of State with responsibility for sport to intervene with the FAI because this is letting the fans and young people down.

The Taoiseach

That definitely sounds like poor form. We need to recognise and reward those fans who turn up for those games that other people do not turn up for. I do not know all of the facts but I will let the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, know the matter was raised here and see if he can use his offices to lean on the FAI in some way.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I appreciate that.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

The Taoiseach will be familiar with the situation regarding the drug Cariban. There was an announcement of a reimbursement fund, which was welcomed. I have been contacted by many constituents about this, and I know the Taoiseach commented on it before Christmas. Women who are struggling with hyperemesis have the choice between suffering with this debilitating condition or finding themselves in significant amounts of debt and spending large amounts of money because they cannot access it. Trying to access a consultant obstetrician for a prescription is an absurdly convoluted approach. It privileges those who have access and means many women are suffering because they cannot access the drug or are spending too much on it. I know the Taoiseach has commented on this in the past but I ask him to give the House an update on any discussions the Government has had with the HSE and the Irish Pharmacy Union on coming up with a more workable approach.

The Taoiseach

I am afraid I do not have an update on this matter since we last spoke but I appreciate that it is an enormous burden on a pregnant woman to have to fund this medicine herself. Hyperemesis gravidarum is a serious illness. This issue slipped off my agenda a little in recent weeks but I will ask my office to take it up again with the HSE and see if we can move things on.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I want to make a point of order. In his response to me earlier on the Order of Business, the Taoiseach suggested there were disciplinary matters under way in the Labour Party.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I ask the Taoiseach to withdraw that comment. I have listened back-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Deputy Duncan Smith

It is.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----and there are no disciplinary matters under way in the Labour Party. I can assure the Taoiseach of that and I thought I misheard him earlier. I ask the Taoiseach to correct the record.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

The Taoiseach

If that is the case, I am happy to withdraw.