Mattie McGrath
Ceist:1. Deputy Mattie McGrath asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [9798/23]
Ceisteanna - Questions
Departmental Priorities
Gary Gannon
Ceist:2. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [10952/23]
Ivana Bacik
Ceist:3. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11006/23]
Mick Barry
Ceist:4. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11019/23]
Peadar Tóibín
Ceist:5. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11111/23]
Pádraig O'Sullivan
Ceist:6. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11298/23]
Christopher O'Sullivan
Ceist:7. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11358/23]
Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:8. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11360/23]
Bríd Smith
Ceist:9. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11363/23]
Gino Kenny
Ceist:10. Deputy Gino Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11365/23]
Rose Conway-Walsh
Ceist:11. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11507/23]
Cian O'Callaghan
Ceist:12. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the economic policy unit of his Department. [11540/23]
Mary Lou McDonald
Ceist:13. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the economic policy unit of his Department. [11068/23]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 13, inclusive, together.
The economic policy unit is part of the economic division of the Department. The unit assists me, as Taoiseach, in advancing the Government’s economic priorities. The unit also advises me on a broad range of economic policy areas and provides me with briefing and speech material on economic and related policy matters. It assists the delivery of the Government’s economic commitments as outlined in the programme for Government, especially where these cut across multiple Departments. In particular, it assists the work of the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment and several related senior officials' groups.
The unit is also responsible for co-ordinating Ireland’s participation in the European semester process, which is the annual cycle of economic and fiscal policy co-ordination among EU member states. This includes preparing the national reform programme each year for submission to the European Commission. The national reform programme provides an overview of economic reforms and policy actions under way in Ireland. This includes those taken in response to country-specific recommendations received. The unit is also responsible for liaison with the Central Statistics Office, CSO.
There are eight contributors, so I ask for their co-operation. Each may have up to one minute.
I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. It is nice to get an insight into his Department and the number of senior officials who give him advice and help formulate policy, but I have some issues around the economic decisions of our country that have impacted on us so badly since the bank guarantee and the bailout. I have issues with the way we deal politically with the banks and the hands-off approach we take. My group has a motion tomorrow on cash and the need for it to continue to be available to people. I wonder at times cén sort advice the Taoiseach gets and whether he always act on the advice he gets.
In asking for an update on the work of the Department's economic policy unit, I am reminded of what business groups have said over the past year or so about the housing crisis being a critical barrier to growth within our economy. I am wondering what advice the Taoiseach has received, for example, about accommodation for hospitality workers in Dublin city. Rents here average €2,300 and I promise those in the city centre far exceed that. Those workers, who are contributing to the economy of the city and the county as well, are clinging onto their homes and will be terrified by news of the ending of the eviction ban. What happens when our hospitality workers can no longer afford to live in this city? Our students, to take another example, already cannot afford it. What happens when we price people we are relying upon out of the city? Was that factored into the Cabinet's considerations today?
Will the emergency accommodation services in this State be able to cope with the surge in demand after the evictions take place in April, May and June? Has the Taoiseach done his homework? Can he give an assurance to this House that the emergency accommodation services will be able to cope? If they are not and people are turned away, what are they expected to do? Would the Taoiseach advise them to go to a Garda station? What would his advice be in that situation? The Cabinet made a reckless decision this morning. It is an act of free market extremism. We are inevitably going to have a record number of homeless people in the weeks and months ahead. What is going to happen when people go to the emergency accommodation services? Will those services be able to cope? Is the Taoiseach able to give us reassurance? If he cannot, what alternative does he suggest for people?
Four hundred people have died in homelessness in Dublin alone in the past five years. That is an incredible figure and the national one is far higher, but the Government does not seem to want to record these figures. We have a situation where, heartbreakingly, that figure does not include the number of people who died sleeping rough in the city. We have 11,754 people in homelessness, 3,000 or more of whom are children. Many of these children will be spending their third St. Patrick's Day in a hotel room as a result of the dire crisis in housing. As a result of the Government's announcement on ending the ban on evictions, thousands of families are now living in fear that their last protection from homelessness has been taken from under them by this Government. The Government must go back to this decision. It needs to take into consideration the level of damage that is being done to so many children and so many families who are teetering at the edge of homelessness. The Government's decision must be revoked.
Does the Taoiseach agree his Department should lead the development of an action plan to protect small businesses in towns throughout Ireland? I appreciate, as do businesses, the recent measures, including the enhancement of the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, and the extension of the reduced VAT rate for the hospitality sector. However, there appears to be something wrong. For example, a restaurant that has bookings for months in advance, so it is successful, is struggling to stay afloat and stay open because it is becoming difficult to make the margins viable. Does the Taoiseach agree we need an action plan? If so, will his Department lead the development of such a plan to protect small businesses across our towns?
A case I have raised with the Taoiseach and repeatedly with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, will come up again in the courts on Friday. It concerns Jacqueline and her husband. Her husband works for a semi-State company and they have two children, one of whom has special needs. Jacqueline and her husband will be going in front of a judge as their landlord is seeking an enforcement order to evict them from the home they have lived in all their lives. I have written to the Minister. He says he is sorry, but there is nothing he can do because the couple are over the social housing income threshold. Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council cannot offer the couple social housing and says it cannot purchase the house, even though it is for sale, which is the reason Jacqueline and her family are being evicted. Will the Taoiseach provide them with a letter to bring to the judge explaining there is now a solution, which he has announced today, for their situation? They got a deferment four weeks ago because there was some prospect of the house being bought, which the Minister then informed us could not happen-----
I thank the Deputy.
-----and the council said could not happen. Will the Taoiseach give me a letter to give to the judge on Friday saying the Government now has a solution where the house could be bought for cost rental?
We are way over time.
Will the Taoiseach do that to prevent the family being made homeless?
This evening, Sinn Féin will bring a motion asking the Government to tax electricity companies on their obscene profits and put that money towards reducing and capping people's bills. Back in November 2022, I warned the Government the electricity pricing system was broken and people were paying prices they should not and need not have been paying. The Taoiseach and his Government colleagues spent a year telling me reform was either impossible or undesirable.
The Taoiseach's Government has failed to act and even opposed the reform at EU level. Last week, the Taoiseach stated there will be a tax on generators and that it will apply to profits made in 2022. That same day, I received a written response from the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, exactly contradicting that statement. Can the Taoiseach confirm that a windfall tax will be applied on electricity companies for all their profits made in 2022?
Workers in section 39 agencies recently deferred their industrial action following strong encouragement from the Taoiseach's Government to convene at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, to resolve outstanding issues regarding pay and conditions. These workers quite rightly feel like they are being treated as if they are somehow second-class. They deliver all the services that public servants deliver, but these workers do so without the same or comparable terms and conditions. It is deeply frustrating for them and their unions to find that the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, the Department of Health and Tusla are all refusing to attend the WRC. There will be no resolution to this issue until the decision-makers are in the room, and they will not be in the room until they get an instruction from the Taoiseach or the relevant senior Minister concerned. I ask, therefore, that the Taoiseach ask the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, the Department of Health and Tusla to make themselves available and to stop ignoring and disrespecting the third-party industrial relations machinery of the State.
I had the privilege this morning of attending a young carers' briefing hosted by Senator Tom Clonan. The reason I say I "privilege" is that we heard from young people and young carers about their direct experience and how they care for family members. It was quite moving to be there and to hear about what people go through and the sacrifices they make. I will give two recommendations that emanate from their report. Of the many recommendations, one was to support the "transition of young carers to further, higher education and apprenticeships", along with also ensuring to facilitate them to return to the workforce in time. What steps is this Government going to take to support young adult carers actively to engage in and remain in employment?
I thank the Deputies for their questions. I was asked about concerns from businesses in relation to the housing crisis. It is certainly something that has been raised with me many times, certainly during my time as the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I hear the concern being expressed by businesses regarding the housing crisis impacting on their ability to recruit and retain staff and to attract staff in from abroad. Having met with representatives of businesses on many occasions to discuss this and other matters, they do acknowledge that this is a problem being faced in other fast-growing economies as well. The multinationals will say this is the same problem they face in San Francisco, Vancouver or Lisbon. They are not saying that we are the only people facing this problem. We must respond to it, mainly by increasing additional housing provision, which is what we are doing.
It is important, however, to put it in a factual context. We do have 2.57 million people at work in Ireland. This is more than ever before. Unemployment is close to an all-time low at around 4%, while youth unemployment is at an all-time low. We had a record number of jobs created by the IDA in Ireland last year and record levels of trade and investment last year. The housing crisis may well be impinging on our capacity to grow but not so much that we are not regarding record growth and numbers of jobs. It needs to be seen in that factual context.
Deputy Barry again asked what we have done in the past few months during the period of the eviction moratorium. I have set this out for the record of the Dáil and it is important to do so again, because I cannot accept the non-factual narrative that the Government sat on its hands and did not do anything in the past few months. This is simply untrue. Just in the fourth quarter of 2022, 5,000 new social housing units were built, 600 were leased, 500 were bought and 1,500 voids were brought back into use. Additional emergency accommodation was also sourced, providing 650 beds. This is a huge amount that has been done during that period and we announced today that we are going to do more. We are authorising local authorities to purchase 1,500 homes where the landlords are selling up-----
Assurances on the homework that has been done.
One of the things I hope is that we will lessen the need for people to go into emergency accommodation by authorising local authorities to purchase the homes they are living in. If a landlord is selling up, if the tenant is a HAP or RAS tenant, the local authorities have the finance and are being encouraged to purchase those properties. The person will move from HAP to being a social housing tenant, which is something I think we all favour. They will not need to go-----
Have you done any homework on this, any at all?
Deputy, please.
----anywhere near emergency accommodation in that period. We also confirmed that we will lease an additional 1,000 social housing units, which will allow us to bring new social housing provision this year to something like 12,000 additional units. Probably more than one third of all new homes being provided in the State this year will be social housing. This has not been something we have commonly seen down the decades and it is certainly not an approach that is neoliberal, right-wing or any of the ideological nonsense we keep having thrown at us as a Government, which just does not stand up to the facts. We have also authorised additional student accommodation, with 400 units to be provided in Dublin City University, DCU.
Deputy Tóibín again mentioned the issue of people who have died while in contact with homeless services. I am happy to give him a note on this. He raised this before and I did answer it in a bit more detail on that occasion. As he said, these are not people who died on the streets but people who have been in contact with homeless services. They die for all sorts of different reasons, often in hospices and hospitals from medical conditions, but also often for other reasons, perhaps overdoses and sometimes violence, sadly, and sometimes we do not know the reasons. I can, however, give the Deputy a detailed note on this which can help to explain better what is meant by that figure.
The lack of wrap-around services.
I agree absolutely that small businesses are in need of support. They are the biggest employers in Ireland. If we add them up, they employ more people than IDA and Enterprise Ireland companies and the Government combined. They employ people all over Ireland. We are doing a lot already, with the VAT reductions staying in place for another period, the improvements in the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, and other supports that are regularly offered through Enterprise Ireland and the local enterprise offices, LEOs. We are not planning on having any particular task force in my Department, but work on this is very much led by the Ministers of State, Deputies Calleary and Richmond, through their engagement with small businesses in the small business forum. I know that many restaurants, unfortunately, have not been able to survive and have been closing in recent weeks. I am also seeing a huge number of new ones opening, which I think is very encouraging as well. We should not discount this.
Turning to the question of the windfall tax, my understanding is that this applies to profits made in 2022 and 2023. I am concerned that this was not a response that the Deputy got back from the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, so I will check up on that. This was, however, definitely my understanding.
Regarding the staff of section 39 bodies, these are certainly not second-class employees and they are not second-class in terms of the work that they do.
I-----
It is the case, however, that they are not employees of the State. This is a simple fact. We are the funder or part funder of these bodies, and if employers were going into the WRC, they would not bring in their funders or their clients. It is a matter between the employer and the employees and their representatives. There is, of course, a role for the State to play, but this is an interaction that occurs between the bodies themselves and the State. Again, it is with the WRC and I hope it is being resolved there.
They have no capacity to settle and the Taoiseach knows this.
Will the Taoiseach answer my question?
Yes. It is a court case and I am reluctant to say anything about a matter that is before the courts. I know the Deputy has engaged with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, on it-----
I have got nothing.
-----and he tells me that there are pertinent facts in relation to this case that the Deputy has not put on the record of the Dáil. I can speak to this afterwards, if the Deputy would like.
That is not true.
Cabinet Committees
Mattie McGrath
Ceist:14. Deputy Mattie McGrath asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on immigration will next meet. [9799/23]
Gary Gannon
Ceist:15. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on immigration will next meet. [10953/23]
Mick Barry
Ceist:16. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee dealing with immigration will next meet. [11020/23]
Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:17. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on immigration will next meet. [11361/23]
Bríd Smith
Ceist:18. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on immigration will next meet. [11364/23]
Alan Dillon
Ceist:19. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee that deals with immigration and integration will next meet. [11595/23]
Tógfaidh mé ceisteanna Uimh. 14 go dtí 19 le chéile.
The Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services oversees implementation of programme for Government commitments in the areas of social policy and public services. The committee covers a range of topics, including immigration and integration, in the area of social policy, with a particular focus on equality of public service reform. Other topics covered by the committee include sport, social protection, arts and culture and justice, such as policing reform, community safety and domestic, sexual and gender-based violence.
A separate Cabinet committee has been established to deal with the humanitarian response to Ukraine. This committee works to ensure a co-ordinated approach to the State's humanitarian response for people arriving from Ukraine who have sought temporary protection here. The Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services will meet in the near future to consider matters under its remit. Topics recently considered by the previous Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality, which last met on 25 October, include the ongoing implementation of the third national domestic, sexual and gender-based violence strategy, as well as progress on policing reforms and assisting disadvantaged areas.
In addition to meetings of the committee, I also have regular engagement with Ministers at Cabinet level and individually to discuss issues relating to their Departments. Meetings have also been held between my officials and those from relevant Departments on a range of social policy issues.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Taoiseach as ucht an cheist seo a fhreagairt. I welcome the measures the Taoiseach announced today regarding housing, especially those relating to empowering local authorities to buy more houses. In the context of this ceist agus an fhreagra, we just cannot keep pace. I thank an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Joe O'Brien, who met me recently and went through some issues that were outstanding. There are many issues in the public domain. People have real issues of concern about how we are going to handle inward migration. There are two separate issues as far as I am concerned, namely, the Ukrainian refugees from the war and the influx of inward migrants from elsewhere. I am asking about security at airports. I am not a lock-them-up-and-throw-away-the-key merchant, but people are genuinely worried. I received replies to questions I put to the Minister for Justice last year. The Department is worried about the people who came here without any documentation. I got replies which suggested that they might have had false documentation to allow them to escape repressive regimes in some countries and that they got rid of it rather than have poor documentation. It might be better to have no documentation. The question is whether we have effective border controls at airports and ports.
When did the committee on immigration last meet? What is the current capacity within the Department to deal adequately with the scale of the crisis? Do we need a new unit in the Department to work specifically on integration and on supporting refugees as they arrive here? Many of us who are dealing with the issue in our constituencies were surprised to learn that many hotels that offered accommodation during the crisis have not received payment. We are again having the horrendous situation arise whereby people are being placed in tents when that should not be the case. How has that happened? Does the Taoiseach feel that too much responsibility has been placed on a single Department and that we need to work more collaboratively across Departments or have specific units with full responsibility for refugee integration and engagement in order that we stop seeing a recurrence of problems such as invoices not being met, people being asked to sleep in tents and accommodation not being provided for those who come here seeking sanctuary, which is abominable? How is this happening? What can we do better as we move into the second year of this crisis?
I hope Deputy Mattie McGrath will pass on the information he got about repressive regimes to his constituents.
Communities across the State will be welcoming refugees from Ukraine and elsewhere in the coming months. Two things need to be done to help make the changes involved a success. First, there needs to be genuine consultation with community organisations. Suggestions from people active in the community on how things can be done successfully must be listened to and given serious consideration by the State agencies involved. To be clear, I am opposed to giving any one person or group a veto over emergency refugee accommodation, but genuine consultation is vital.
Second, hard-pressed working-class communities must be provided with State investment to ensure that social services, such as medical or childcare services, are not in any way reduced. In fact, the services need to be improved for them as well as for the new arrivals in communities. This is in the interests both of refugees and existing communities alike. Zero ammunition must be provided to anti-immigration agitators on this score. I ask the Taoiseach to reply on the issue of the plans for consultation and investment.
Currently, 13,000 Ukrainians who have come here seeking refuge are working and contributing to making Irish society a better place, which is what most immigrants want to do. There is a very significant obstacle for Ukrainians in particular in that many of them are single parents - women with children - and there is no childcare is available for them. We already have a problem here in this regard. What measures are being taken to expand childcare provision for people here who need it and also for refugees coming here who want to work, contribute to Irish society and assist us in dealing with the many labour shortages we have in areas such as healthcare, construction, retail, hospitality and so on, but are being prevented from doing so by the lack of childcare? What other measures are being taken more generally to facilitate people in the international protection accommodation services, IPAS, system and elsewhere who would like to work? It is often made very difficult for them to work and to integrate into the workforce.
The Irish people have played a massive role in supporting and welcoming thousands of Ukrainian refugees and international protection applicants into the country. Public service delivery to support this influx of people has been inadequate, especially in rural communities. Those I represent have raised issues such as those relating to public transport, mental health support, disability services and access to GP services. These matters must be addressed. We must do more and respond accordingly. Has the Government assessed whether we can utilise the services of professionals such as doctors, nurses and pharmacists? Non-EU practitioners coming to Ireland must undertake an English exam to prove their proficiency in medical English. This is the Professional and Linguistic Assessments Board test. However, Ukrainian doctors, nurses and pharmacists did not have the opportunity to sit the test in light of the war-torn circumstances from which they fled. Close to 400 doctors from Ukraine have been identified, along with many nurses and pharmacists. They are ready to work. In fact, they are desperate to work. They want to help and be part of the front line. This is a practical issue that requires an urgent and practical response. I ask the Minister for Health to work with the Irish Medical Council to ensure that all avenues are examined in order to utilise the professional services of these people.
Chambers Ireland is the latest business body to tell the Government that housing is the biggest challenge that faces enterprise this year. Social and affordable housing targets are woefully low and yet the Government has been unable to meet them in the past three years. Time and again, the Taoiseach responds to questions on the housing crisis as if it has suddenly sneaked up on him. There is never any recognition of his responsibility for this debacle as a Minister in successive Governments over the past decade. IBEC has called on the Government to set a more ambitious role for local authorities and approved housing bodies through the delivery of more social and cost-rental units and a broader affordable homes scheme with a target of 20,000 units annually before the end of the decade. Does the Taoiseach agree that it is time for a significant upwards revision of annual housing targets for the next eight years?
I thank Deputies for their questions. Last week or the previous week, the Minister for Justice, Deputy Harris, and I had a meeting with the Garda National Immigration Bureau and the border management unit of the Department of Justice to discuss some of the issues raised by Deputy Mattie McGrath and to examine how we can improve border security and make sure that people who should not get into the State are not able to do so. We have had very close co-operation with the authorities in the United Kingdom on the common travel area. What they said to me is that they have seen a big reduction in the number of people who have come through the airports and claimed international protection. That is at least in part down to the fact that gardaí are stopping more people coming off the aeroplanes and checking their documents. If they do not have documents, they can be kept on the aeroplane. Gardaí have also been travelling to airports in other parts of Europe from where people often fly to Ireland. This has helped to significantly reduce the number of people arriving at our airports without any documents and then claiming international protection. I thank the Garda for its work in that regard. I also thank the airlines, which also have a responsibility not to allow people on aeroplanes unless they have the correct documents.
They believe - it is never possible to know for sure - that there has been an increase in the number of people travelling to the Republic from mainland Britain or Northern Ireland and seeking international protection here. We are not, for all sorts of reasons that I do not think I need to explain, going to start doing wholescale checks on people crossing the Border from North to South. This is an issue. It is one area on which we will have to co-operate much more closely with the UK - with which we have a common travel area - in order to ensure that there are fewer irregular arrivals to Britain and Ireland. This is definitely something I want to discuss with Prime Minister Sunak in the near future.
I was also updated on the number of deportations. In the region of 600 deportation orders were issued in the past few months and work is being done to increase the number of deportations to countries of transit and countries of origin. Bear in mind, these are people who applied for international protection and were refused because they were not entitled to it. Essentially, their stories did not check out or did not meet the standard we set for people to get international protection. It was pointed out to me clearly that even in countries from which there are large numbers of deportations, it is hard to make deportations happen and you can only ever do a certain number. Deportation has an important deterrent effect, however. If people believe that they can come to the country, claim international protection and have no prospect of being deported, this will increase the number of people who come here invalidly. It is important to have deportations in order to send out that message to people that if you need international protection or are a refugee, you are welcome here and we will provide you with protection. However, we must also be firm. If people are coming here with false stories or on false pretences, they will not be able, by means of various mechanisms, to stay here for years and years in order that they can acquire some form of status. People must know that we will issue and enforce deportation orders.
We do not have a Cabinet committee on immigration. The matter is dealt with either through the Ukraine humanitarian committee or by means of social policy. The failure to pay many hotels and accommodation providers is a big issue. Certainly, when we are asking them to renew their contracts, it does not help if we have left them in arrears. I acknowledge that is a problem. The position is improving. Additional staff have been provided to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to help with that. It has outsourced some of its processes to contractors, which has also helped a great deal. I think we will see significant improvements in respect of payments to hotels and other accommodation providers in the next few weeks. Indeed, such improvements are already happening.
I agree with the comment to the effect that it is terrible that we are accommodating people in tents. Of course it is. I hope that will be a temporary measure as we step up modular accommodation and other accommodation in other locations around the State. I hope we will not have to use tents but I cannot guarantee that we will not. How did this happen? Why did it happen? I would have thought that was obvious to everyone. We are facing the biggest refugee crisis in Europe since the 1940s. People have seen refugee crises in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. They know what those crises look like. This is the first time we have had a refugee crisis like this in Europe since the Second World War. Some 8 million people have been displaced either within Ukraine or outside it. Approximately, 1% of the latter have come to Ireland. We are doing our best to provide shelter for them. It is off the scale in terms of anything we would ever have planned for. Even if we had remarkable foresight two years ago, had known that Vladimir Putin was going to invade Ukraine, had known the number of people who would seek international protection would treble and had built a city the size of Waterford and comprising 20,000 houses and apartments, it would be full by now. That is the scale of the challenge we are facing. I met other European Heads of Government in February to discuss this matter. All 27 member states across the European Union are facing the same challenges in trying to find accommodation for a huge number of people who have been forced to leave Ukraine or who are coming into Europe from other parts of the world.
Cabinet Committees
Peadar Tóibín
Ceist:20. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on education will next meet. [9814/23]
Mary Lou McDonald
Ceist:21. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on education will next meet. [9603/23]
Ivana Bacik
Ceist:22. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [9675/23]
Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:23. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the committee that deals with higher education and research will next meet. [10251/23]
Peadar Tóibín
Ceist:24. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on education will next meet. [11110/23]
Pádraig O'Sullivan
Ceist:25. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [11292/23]
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor
Ceist:26. Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [11293/23]
Niamh Smyth
Ceist:27. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [11294/23]
Gary Gannon
Ceist:28. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [10954/23]
Gary Gannon
Ceist:29. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Taoiseach when the committee that deals with higher education and research will next meet. [10955/23]
Mick Barry
Ceist:30. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on education will next meet. [11396/23]
Rose Conway-Walsh
Ceist:31. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on education will next meet. [11506/23]
Cathal Crowe
Ceist:32. Deputy Cathal Crowe asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [11545/23]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 to 32, inclusive, together.
The newly-established Cabinet committee on children and education will oversee the implementation of programme for Government commitments in the area of children and education, including further and higher education, with a specific focus on child poverty and well-being. The first meeting of this committee will take place shortly. Work has been taking place, with officials meeting organisations and groups ahead of the first meeting. The new committee will have a greater focus on improving the lives of all children in Ireland and giving them the best start possible. A strong and equal start in life will ensure every child has the opportunity to fulfil their potential.
Education is the great leveller. Through education, we can empower young people and they can develop the skills necessary to build a better life and to achieve better outcomes for themselves and their families. I speak regularly with the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, and the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, at Cabinet, and with the Minister of State at the Department of Education, Deputy Madigan.
The Taoiseach's announcement yesterday that primary school children as young as nine or ten years old should be taught about transgenderism shocked many people. The RED C poll and the Ireland Thinks poll suggest that the majority of people believe children in primary school are too young to be taught about transgenderism. Their research indicates that most people in this country believe children are too young to grapple with these very strong and important issues. Everybody wants to have compassion at the heart of the education system but we also need common sense. We have a duty of care for children. Parental choice and consent must also be components of the education system. Gender dysphoria is not easy. Children should be treated with compassion and support but this must be evidence-based. There is a growing number of experts who have said that the approach of this Government on these issues is not evidence-based. Have the Department of the Taoiseach or the Department of Education carried out research on the effect on primary school children of material on transgenderism being taught in the classroom?
Perhaps we may allow our business and deliberations to be informed by one simple phrase, namely, "Trans rights are human rights".
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the thousands of adult education tutors employed by education and training boards, ETBs, across the country who still have no permanent contracts. Unlike other educators within the public sector, they have no incremental pay scales and have to sign on over the summer, Christmas and Easter breaks. They often have to wait weeks for their jobseeker's payment to come through. Three years have passed since the Labour Court recommended that the Government offer proper contracts to these tutors, yet it appears from the Department's response to last month's protest that no tangible progress has been made. It is astonishing that any Government would think it acceptable that a strand of educators within the public system could be treated so shabbily. The diversity of education and training these tutors provide to every age group and social demographic should be recognised and paid for appropriately. They are hardworking and committed public servants. They cannot plan for their future, they cannot get mortgages, they are stuck where they are, their teaching hours are capped and they are not paid for class preparation, planning or assessment work. In reality, they are doing full-time hours. As Head of Government, surely it is time for the Taoiseach to step in and sort this out.
I echo what Deputy O'Reilly said. Trans rights are human rights. Trans people have every bit as much a right to be recognised in every level of our education system as anybody else.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the PhD workers and postgraduate workers who are planning a protest in the next week or two outside Leinster House. They point out that the highest stipend for PhD students is €18,500. For many, it is much less. Even the highest level equates to about €8.80 per hour, which is less than the minimum wage. There are many tens of thousands of these postgraduate workers. In the EU, the average PhD pay is €32,000, multiples of the highest level here. In Nordic countries, it is €50,000 and the vast majority of those involved have proper contracts of employment. There is a review going on, but they are asking very simply that there should be a living postgraduate worker salary of at least €25,000. Will the Taoiseach agree to that? Will he announce it in advance of the budget?
Nearly two years ago, there was a particular crisis in Cork regarding the provision of special education places in schools. Thankfully, at that time, all stakeholders came together and the 50 or so children concerned were accommodated between two or three different schools and the establishment of a new school in Carrigaline. Two years on, unfortunately, we are facing the same prospect, from talking to special educational needs organisers, SENOs, and other stakeholders. There are approximately 45 children between Glanmire and Youghal in east County Cork who will not be in an appropriate education setting come September. Approximately 25 of them have no school at all or are in mainstream settings when they should perhaps be in special school settings.
What guarantee can we give the children I speak of and the families in those situations that they will have appropriate school places next September?
My chief concern regarding children in education is the lack of supports for those going from preschool to primary and from primary to secondary. There is a facility in Carlow that looks after children with special needs and that has children scheduled to attend primary school in September who have never seen a therapist. They have not had an assessment and that is unacceptable. We await a new special educational needs organiser, SENO, for Carlow. We are seeing massive delays in assessments. Some assessments from 2019 are only being done now. Recruitment is a major issue. I see these issues with my own eyes. Last week, I held a public meeting to assist the community to make the submission for the Department’s review on the educational needs of children with special needs. The stories I heard were horrific. I have one case of a child with no access to occupational therapy or speech and language therapy in school. His needs are acute. We cannot give children the correct access to equality of education if their support needs are not being met.
I will speak on assistive technology schemes which support children with complex disabilities who require essential specialist therapy in order to access their curriculum. The recommended application rate is between 70% and 73%. In Cavan, however, the figures are starkly different. In 2018, we were at 70%. In subsequent years, we have fallen well below the average, as the following percentages prove: 65% in 2019; 53% in 2020; 48% in 2021; and 65% in 2022. Looking at figures for 2020 and 2021, we see that 50% of applicants failed to access the scheme. Education becomes more daunting and stress levels rise, leading to anxiety and erosion of confidence. The overall well-being, educational progress and holistic development of each applicant is paramount. Aside from the formal diagnosis we need to show compassion. The Minister for Education is undertaking a review of this matter. I ask the Taoiseach to put his full weight behind that to ensure more students get the assistive technology that is required.
I join my colleagues across the left in the Chamber in expressing to the fullest that trans rights are human rights. Section 15(2) of the Education Act 1998 states that the board shall “uphold, and be accountable to the patron for so upholding, the characteristic spirit of the school as determined by the cultural, educational, moral, religious, social, linguistic and spiritual values and traditions which inform and are characteristic of the objectives and conduct of the school”. That section enables Catholic bishops to determine the type of relationship and sex education given in our schools. The same people evoke a strange attachment to science by saying that another group of people do not exist and are not worthy of love. Does the Taoiseach think it is time we had a referendum on section 15(2) of the Education Act in order to remove that power?
Trans rights are human rights. Both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have rightly opposed sentiments expressed by the Catholic Primary Schools Management Association concerning teaching about transgender identities on the curriculum. The letter that body sent stated that any education relating to transgender identity in primary schools would be "counterproductive, generating unnecessary division in school communities where none now exists". It went on to use transphobic language, with reference to a "growing psychological contagion amongst young and vulnerable children". OMG. It is important that there be no backsliding on this issue on the part of the Government. The reality of transgender identities needs to be recognised. Children need to be taught about the world around them as it is and there should be no return to the bad old days of denying transgender identity in our schools. The Tánaiste said he was disappointed by the letter but surely it is no surprise. Objective sex education and Catholic Church control of education are oil and water. They do not mix. Is it not time to separate church and State?
I wish to register my shock and horror at the decision to end the eviction ban. That decision will be remembered for a very long time. Students will be among those left without a roof over their head. Student accommodation is part of the broader housing crisis overseen by Fine Gael over the past 12 years. The cost and availability of education is the biggest barrier to third level education, particularly for students in rural areas and students from Mayo.
The announcement that Government will co-fund 400 student beds in DCU is a step in the right direction but the Government is still dragging its feet. DCU has planning permission for 1,000 additional beds. Thousands more could be delivered across the higher education sector. Will the Taoiseach ensure that all shovel-ready student accommodation projects are advanced to reflect the urgency and scale of the student accommodation crisis and take the pressure off the private rental market? Will he provide the details of the arrangement with the colleges? He says that one third will be affordable. This means that means two thirds will not be affordable. Can I get clarity on this matter?
I thank Deputies for their contributions. Deputy Tóibín referred to the term "transgenderism". I am not sure what that means. It is not an ideology nor a political philosophy. Trans people are people and they exist. I know people who are trans and perhaps the Deputy does too. They have always existed, although they may not have been acknowledged. When it comes to the education of children, parents and schools have a duty to inform them of the world around them as it is. Sooner or later, a young person will run into or meet somebody who is trans. Is it not better they have heard about it from their parents or teachers so they are prepared? It seems like common sense to me. It does not have to be a value judgment or to challenge anyone's religious beliefs or threaten their feelings. If you want to look out for children and prepare them for life and the world around them, you do not shield them from the reality of people and how they live their lives. You talk to them about it and you have to be ready to answer their questions. Kids are extraordinarily curious. If they see something or somebody they have not seen before, they will ask questions. You should be able to answer them. It should not be a case of using the phrase “Don’t say trans”. We have to have an approach that makes sense and teaches people about the reality of the world around them.
I hope that in this debate we all agree to try to avoid the kind of culture wars seen in other countries on the trans issue. The last thing the vast majority of people want in this country is a big row and fight between people who are woke and those who are anti-woke. People on both sides of that debate probably want that for reasons of self-promotion and other reasons, but I hope we can avoid that, keep it rational and keep it anchored in the centre ground.
On the industrial relations dispute involving tutors and the ETBs, I hope it is resolved soon. I will not get personally involved in industrial relations disputes. It is not that I am not interested, but I know if I get involved, every dispute will be escalated to the Taoiseach’s office and we will be expected to find the solution. That is not the way it should be done. It should be done through the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Labour Court, which is where these matters are resolved. I hope it can be resolved and I have sympathy for the tutors and the case they make.
On postgraduate students and workers, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science is working on this. He wants a better deal for PhD students. We are looking at what is done in comparable European countries and will see what we can do to match that or at least come closer to it. There is a wide spectrum as to what is done in different countries.
Comments were made with regard to children in east Cork who do not have appropriate school places for September. Deputy Murnane O'Connor referred to issues in Carlow and Deputy Niamh Smyth referred to the need for assistive aids in Cavan. With their permission, I will come back to them in writing with a more detailed reply. I have some information here but maybe not the full answer. I would prefer to come back with a more comprehensive answer in the next week or two.
On the Education Act, I do not think a referendum is required to amend it. I would have thought that could be done by vote of the Dáil and Seanad, if appropriate. On the separation of church and State, we should not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many schools are run by an archdiocese, or the archdiocese is a patron, including the primary school I went to and which my nephews have just left. Many schools have a Church of Ireland ethos, for example. Many schools are run by religious orders or religious trusts, and they run them well. In my constituency, where there is a proposal to remove some schools from the patronage of the archdiocese, the parents and teachers do not want that.
We should not force secularism on people who do not want it. If the school is run well, people like how it is run and the parents and teachers are happy, there should not be a change. There is room to recognise that much good work is done by religious bodies and they have a role to play in education and in other parts of society. They should not be consigned to the fringes or the basement, but it has to be an appropriate role that puts the public interest first.