Is the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, taking all the Topical Issues tonight?
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla (Atógáil) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)
Nearly all of them.
Disability Services
I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this Topical Issue. I also thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Minister of State for being here.
A number of weeks ago, I got an email from a family in which they state that their daughter, Orla, who has Down's syndrome, will complete her secondary school education next June. Orla is a wonderful, fun-loving girl who is looking forward to moving on with her friends to the next level of education. Due to her learning disability, however, Orla is unable to use public transport safely. She has no numeracy or literacy skills and her family would consider her extremely vulnerable without supervision. The HSE has advised that Orla must arrange her own transport to the training centres. I understand transport was provided pre-Covid but that seems to have stopped. It is simply not feasible for the parents to drive Orla to Cork city, which would involve two round trips, five days a week, at a total estimated mileage of 500 miles per week, while minding other family members and working as well.
It is interesting that the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, is in attendance. He and the Minister, Deputy Harris, are doing amazing work on third level. Like her peers, this young woman is moving from second level to third level. At third level, we have the national access plan. At higher education level, we have the fund for students with disabilities. We have PATH 4 and apprentices are looked after well. This young woman wants to do her best and move forward, but she cannot get to the centre.
I have raised this matter a number of times, including last week with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, who told me in the House that the personal assistant, PA, route was a solution. The family have also suggested home pick-up and drop-off by bus, pick-up and drop-off from a designated location in the local town, or a travel assistant supervisor - a PA - who might escort these young people on public transport so that they can get to where they are going safely.
The Minister of State, Deputy Collins, is doing a great deal of work at third level. I ask that he work with his peers in government to examine this matter. This small number of young citizens deserve and need our support, but they are not getting it.
I was told that a disability stakeholder group – the transport working group – had been established. Its work has concluded and it is now considering transport for people with disabilities. Maybe the Minister of State will investigate what is happening in that regard. Maybe he will also revert to me, via the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, on how the PA route could be financed. The HSE has told the family that it has no funding for this and has passed the family on to the Cope Foundation, but the foundation has told the family that the transport has to be specifically funded by the HSE. They are going around in circles, one agency fobbing them off onto the next.
I have raised this matter by way of a number of parliamentary questions. I have been told that no one is responsible. We do not know who is responsible. Who can assist these young citizens, who surely have the same rights as the citizens that the Minister of State is looking after at third level, further education and apprenticeships? These young people face challenges. They want to get on, but they need support. Perhaps the Minister of State will consider taking this training and further education aspect under the umbrella of his Department. These are third level students in their own way, they have a great deal to contribute and they have the same rights as we do. Consider the legislation we have passed and debates we have had down the years. We need to look after these people. They need our support and assistance.
I look forward to the Minister of State's reply. He has a script in front of him that he will read out, but perhaps he will leave it aside for a little while and tell the House what he thinks and feels about this issue and whether his Department can get involved in supporting and helping these third level students, who are getting into further education and training.
On behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. The HSE provides specialist disability services, including day services and rehabilitative training, to people with disabilities who require them. While day service funding does not include transport, some transport supports are provided by the HSE or funded agencies on a discretionary basis and a variety of transport solutions are pursued in different CHO areas. These include travel training to enable public transport to be used where appropriate, local transport such as Local Link, private bus transport and taxis. Some service providers provide transport where capacity exists. In general, day service users are also in receipt of disability allowance and are automatically entitled to the free travel pass.
The issue of transport to day services is acknowledged by the HSE and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. It is recognised that, without this support, many people with disabilities would not be able to access services. The HSE and service providers work hard every year at a local level to source transport solutions for adult day service users. The HSE has been working with the National Transport Authority, NTA, on this issue of transport through the Open Routes project. Open Routes is based on the idea that transport to HSE services such as day services would best be provided by accessible local public transport, such as Local Link, transporting people to their day services but also serving the wider local community with enhanced public transport provision. This approach is being piloted in Leitrim. The NTA advises that the integrated pilot project was developed in close collaboration with the HSE, with a revised network designed to meet the needs of mainstream public transport users as well as the transport needs of passengers with disabilities and those accessing healthcare services in the county. This pilot project has been in operation for more than a year. To date, all feedback on the pilot from stakeholders, such as the HSE, HSE day centres, external stakeholders and passengers, has been positive. In addition to this positive feedback, passenger numbers on regular rural services have grown considerably since the introduction of the revised Transport for Ireland, TFI, Local Link network for County Leitrim. This is a model that could be applied in other parts of the country, with the NTA leading and working closely with local partners, such as the HSE. The NTA and HSE are continuing to progress this work.
Under the national disability inclusion strategy, the Department of Transport has responsibility at national level for the continued development of accessibility and the availability of accessible public transport. To develop proposals for better co-ordination of transport and mobility supports for people with disabilities, a transport working group was established, co-ordinated by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and chaired by my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. The outcomes of the group's work provide a valuable evidence base for future policy development, detailing proposals for the development and co-ordination of enhanced transport and mobility support options for people with disabilities. The report was published last month by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, on whose website it is available.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. Interestingly, he stated, "day service funding does not include transport". We have been told that by HSE south and the Cope Foundation. However, some transport supports are provided by the HSE or funded agencies on a discretionary basis. That is not good enough. It should not be discretionary, but mandatory. It should be an entitlement and these young people should have the services provided. It should not be discretionary or depend on whether there is money left over.
On travel training, this young woman has Down's syndrome. We cannot say that travel training is going to be of any benefit to her. She needs help, but she wants to go. A free travel pass is no good because she cannot navigate public transport herself. She needs somebody with her or she needs to be dropped from door to door.
Open Routes is interesting. I wonder whether we still need a PA, support or supervision, given that people will go on such a bus and may get off where they should not. I have looked for the report but could not find it on the Department's website. Maybe someone will send it to me. Reading it would be interesting. The trial has been ongoing for a year and has been positive, but we need to move on.
What are Orla and her family going to do next September? She is entitled to an education. She is entitled to go on to further training and education like all other young adults of her age, but she cannot get there because no transport service is provided. Will the Minister of State address this matter? It is a further education and training issue. Sometimes, I wonder why it is under the remit of the HSE and the Department of Health when it should be under the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. Education and training is what these young people want and expect to do. It is also what their families expect them to do.
We need to invest in the centres in question and put more money into them. We are putting a great deal of money into third level, including universities and technological universities, which is the way it should be, but these young people also deserve the same positive treatment.
I will flag the specific case that the Deputy has raised with my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to make them aware of it and to highlight not only the reply that I have given him, but also what the Deputy has raised, that being, the inconsistent approach around the country. I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue.
I understand the pressures that families are under and the challenges that transport can pose for people with disabilities, such as those adults attending day services and other educated settings whom the Deputy highlighted. At a cross-Government level on projects such as Open Routes and the transport working group convened by the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, last year, the Government is working to find more suitable solutions to the broader issue of transport for people with disabilities. This issue must be broadened out beyond the HSE and service providers. Nationally, we are working to improve access to public transport, particularly in rural areas, for those with disabilities. In the coming years, more people will be able to avail of public transport services where they can use their free travel passes. The Government is committed to making real progress on this issue and to developing the right solutions for people with disabilities.
Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 10.41 p.m. go dtí 9.12 a.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 29 Márta 2023.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.41 p.m. until 9.12 a.m. on Wednesday, 29 March 2023.