Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 May 2023

Vol. 1038 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Electric Vehicles

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's office for selecting this matter for debate and the Minister of State for being here. Unfortunately, this is the second time that the Minister for Transport cannot be here with us but that is another story.

I recently purchased an electric vehicle, EV, and they are a great job, really fantastic, charging at night and so on. However, the charging network nationally leaves a lot to be desired. I know a lot of work has been done. I have read the implementation plan and the strategy that has been established by the Department and the Minister. It is very good and very impressive. However, a few things need to be done. First, we need to ensure the user experience is as pleasant as it can be. It is easy to pull up and fill up with petrol or diesel at the moment. Trying to do the same with an EV is a different ball game altogether. First, you have to find a working charging point that is fast charge and where there is no queue. You do not know at the start how much it is going to cost and people may often be out in the rain. When people refuel with petrol or diesel they are covered. EVs are an add-on, so if it is lashing rain people are going to get wet. You do not know how fast they are going to be either. Charging points have different speeds and different connections.

I know there is a strategy in place and it is very good, but we really need to get working on this. The customer experience is hugely important. The user experience is the new buzzword and that really needs to be taken on board when people are using these charging points. I can understand range anxiety and charger anxiety. If a person is driving along the motorway and the range is going down rapidly, he or she begins to wonder about where the next charging point will be, if it will be working and if there will be a queue. This is hugely important. There are five principles involved in the strategy. We need to make sure that the chargers are interoperable, so that when people pull up, they know it will fit their car and will not be something that does not fit it. Charging has to be seamless and it has to be relatively inexpensive. There are points of friction at the moment. There are physical limitations and issues with the number of charging stations around the country. There are not nearly enough.

The Minister of State might tell us in a moment what is the plan to beef up the infrastructure to make sure it is user-friendly and that people are not going to be out in the rain. That might sound like a moot point, but not if you are trying to figure out how to use these things and it is spilling rain. The apps to use these chargers are quite complicated. People need to download an app. We should have a situation where people can use their bank card to swipe and get it done. This can be done with petrol and diesel; the same experience should apply with electric charging. If you buy an electric vehicle, you have to download an app and some of the apps are quite complex. I found the ESB one extremely complex. The other ones are not as complex but they are something people have to work with. The number of people buying electric cars has increased, and that is a good thing, so the number of electric cars on the road is increasing dramatically, but the infrastructure is not keeping pace.

I am a little bit worried about the timescale on the strategy. It looks good but I think we need to make it faster. I am really impressed with the strategy of the people in zero emission vehicles Ireland, ZEVI, which is the organisation in the Department overseeing all this, and with what they have done, but we need to move it faster. People are moving ahead of us at this stage. The experience I had last Saturday was not great, to be honest. I know other people with electric vehicles. I came across one gentleman who was sitting there for quite a while waiting for his vehicle to charge and the machine was only at 50% capacity at the time. These are new technologies. I know a lot of people do home charging and so on.

Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Niall Collins)

I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I am responding on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan.

The Government is fully committed to supporting a significant expansion and modernisation of the electric vehicle charging network over the coming years. Our climate action target of almost one million electric vehicles on the road by 2030 is a challenging one which needs to be matched by meeting the equal challenge of providing enough charging points to meet demand. We are pleased to say that we are currently ahead of our vehicle uptake projections and we now have a robust roadmap under the national EV charging infrastructure strategy to further develop sustainable charging options for users.

In July 2022, a new dedicated office, zero emission vehicles Ireland, also known as ZEVI, was established within the Department of Transport to oversee and accelerate Ireland's transition to zero emission vehicles. Having an effective and reliable charging network is an essential part of enabling drivers to make the switch to electric vehicles. It is also an essential part of ensuring just and equal access to EVs across Ireland, including in rural areas. There is a key purpose and function of ZEVI and one which has whole-of-government support.

The first thing to note is that home charging is a viable and preferred option for EV users. In Ireland, about 80% of EV users have, or will have, the option of charging at home. Home charging is the primary charging method for most Irish EV owners as it is convenient and cheaper for the customer as well as assisting the overall management of the national grid by encouraging off-peak electricity use. The Government strongly encourages and incentivises use of home charging through a home charger purchase grant scheme, which was updated last year to include apartments and allow chargers to be installed without proof of EV ownership. For those unable to charge at home, improving access to public, destination and en route charging is a priority for ZEVI. Later this year, a new residential charging scheme will launch to encourage installation of chargers in areas where home charging is not possible. This will seek to replicate the home charging experience for those without a driveway or off-street parking.

For destination charging, a number of schemes are launching in 2023 which will incentivise the roll-out of faster charging to facilitate quick top-ups or potentially to provide a faster, once-a-week charge. So far in 2023, ZEVI has launched a scheme to install chargers at sports clubs. It is preparing to launch a community centre scheme in the summer, and will also develop a general scheme to help install chargers at commercial sites and visitor locations towards the end of the year. Additionally, ZEVI is actively considering the requirements for en route, high-powered charging infrastructure which is focused on our motorways and national routes and facilitates those persons who need to charge quickly when on longer journeys, or operating a commercial route.

It is important to note that improving the charging network does not stop at simply increasing the number of chargers. ZEVI is also developing standards for payment, accessibility and data which will ensure the network is available to as many users as possible, assess how the network is performing and identify charging demands. With a sustained increase in home charging, a growing network of destination chargers and en route, high-powered charging, and with a focus on usability, the Government is looking to create an adaptable and accessible network of chargers, which is intended to meet the needs of all EV users. A robust charging network will allow EVs to play their part in the wider decarbonisation of transport, which is such a key part of Ireland's wider climate goals. Again, this is a challenge but one the Government intends to meet.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Minister of State for his response and I agree with most of what he says here. The issue with respect to home charging is important. You can charge at a cheaper rate overnight and so forth, which is good. That needs to be expanded as well, by the way. The big issue I and some of my colleagues have encountered, however, is the dearth of charging facilities on the motorways and, in fact, in rural areas. The apps are quite complicated. Quite often, the chargers do not work properly, and there is a queue as well. If we are going to increase the number of EVs, and the number is increasing, with people buying more of them, we need to ensure we have the en route charging facilities available.

Do not forget as well the maximum range from an EV is 400 km to 500 km, which is different from a diesel or petrol car, which can be up to 1,000 km in some cases. This shows the need to have more charging points on roads and motorways - en route, in other words. I take the point with respect to sports clubs, community centres and so on, but they will actually be slow chargers. They take a while to charge a vehicle, like the ones in the Leinster House complex, whereas fast charging en route is what we really need. They need to be covered over so that people are protected from the elements, they need to be user-friendly, and they need to be accessible. People with disabilities and so on also need to be able to use them easily, and that is not the case at the moment with some of these. They are away in a corner somewhere, hard to find and hard to get at, and maybe only one vehicle can pull in at a time. This needs to be addressed, and pretty quickly or otherwise people will lose confidence in these cars, people will stop buying them and the number will drop.

So far, I am happy with ZEVI and what it is doing. It needs to do it faster and better, and that is my message today - to move this on quickly. I know the ESB has a huge investment planned for this as well. This is the future and the way to go, but the user experience at the moment is not actually great.

Deputy Niall Collins

Like all climate change issues, this area is complex, but the Government believes it is making the right moves in creating an environment where EVs become not just an option but the preferred option for those who need to use a personal vehicle. All indications suggest we are approaching a point where the technology and the market for EVs matures and begins to match, then exceed, internal combustion in practically all areas. Our charging network is, similarly, on a journey towards maturity, with strong growth under way and long-term planning focused on meeting future needs.

The move from internal combustion to electrified transport is not going to be easy. In fact, as a societal shift, it is quite monumental but it is truly needed. It is the Government's intention to offer strong alternatives to internal combustion vehicle use, whether that be active travel, sustainable mobility or improved public transport. These preferred options will be supplemented by zero emission vehicles and a comprehensive charging network. As noted, the Government is fully committed to increasing both the quantity and quality of our charging network to ensure it not only meets the future demand but does so in an efficient, equitable and economic way.

We will work with all partners, whether they be citizens, public sector bodies such as local authorities, or private sector organisations such as charging providers, to ensure we address all challenges arising and get as many chargers online as are needed. Without a robust EV charging network, a transition to truly decarbonised transport is not feasible, so it is vital we all get it right and remove any doubts about the viability of EVs for both current and future users.

Disability Services

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Minister for being here to take this Topical Issue. The children's disability network team, CDNT, in Balbriggan district covers Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush, Lusk, Loughshinny and the surrounding rural areas. This waiting list has more than 1,000 kids on it. At a recent meeting, the HSE representatives admitted it is likely to be the worst in this State.

It is absolutely heartbreaking to hear from parents, and I do not propose to go into detail with a lot of personal stories. However, I spoke to Alison and Mark, and they are parents to Ada, who is nearly five. They sent me this email, and I will read it to illustrate for the Minister how bad it is:

Parents of children on the waiting list were invited to a meeting in the Bracken Court Hotel in Balbriggan by the CDNT on 22nd March 2023 in an attempt to discuss a family forum plan, however, during the 2+ hours, most of the time was spent by distressed parents shouting out their concerns and questions. My husband and I witnessed many parents in tears as they tried to voice their concerns regarding the complete lack of services for their children as well as the many accounts of unanswered phonecalls and emails.

The CDNT in the Balbriggan district has a waiting list with 1000 + children.

[...]

It was abundantly apparent that all the other parents we listened to and saw were exhausted to the point of being completely worn down. We are desperate and frustrated at the lack of information, communication and support. The over powering feeling in the room that day was that we parents felt unheard and our children are being forgotten about.

[...]

It's unforgivable that we are willing to leave the most vulnerable (disabled children) without the care, support and services they need to have the "Same Chance" as everyone else.

When Ada was aged one and a half, her mam and dad, Alison and Mark, realised that she had delayed development and they started the process of referral. Frustrated, and at considerable cost to themselves, they paid for a private assessment which confirmed that Ada has autism spectrum disorder. That report was sent to the CDNT nearly two years ago. It has been nearly four years since Mark and Alison started the referral process, and in that time, Ada has received exactly 30 minutes of speech and language therapy and no other therapies. That was yesterday. She received 30 minutes, and she will be five in July. They started this process before she was one and a half. Thirty minutes, and she got that yesterday.

Ada's parents want what every parent wants for their child: that she can live her best life, and that she can thrive. Their child needs some little bit of support to be able to help her do that, and they have been everywhere. They are patient and decent people. However, Ada is just one child out of more than 1,000 on a list for the Balbriggan district covering a huge area in north County Dublin.

I spoke to Alison yesterday. She and Mark were at pains to point out that they are not looking for special treatment. That is not what they are doing. They came to me to try to find a pathway through to the services that their daughter needs. They are not looking for special treatment but are just highlighting the situation that exists for many parents. I highlight their case only as an example of the 1,000 plus children who are waiting. What they said is very true. They feel like they have been forgotten and that they are not being listened to. When they went to the meeting with the CDNT they left with less hope than they went in with, which is really not the purpose of such meetings. I have spoken to a number of parents who were at that meeting and their frustration was absolutely palpable. Parents are burnt out and absolutely exhausted. They feel that their children are put on a waiting list and just forgotten about.

Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Roderic O'Gorman)

I thank Deputy O'Reilly for raising this important issue. At the outset, I want to state that the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and I recognise the very real impact that delays in receiving therapies or assessments have had for children and their families. Deputy O'Reilly has spoken powerfully about its impact on Alison, Mark and most importantly, on Ada.

The progressing disability services, PDS, programme has been challenging for many stakeholders but most importantly for children and young people using the service and their families. I am aware that these challenges have resulted in unacceptable delays for families seeking to access essential therapies for their children. As responsibility for disability services has now moved to my Department, addressing these challenges in the number one priority for the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and me.

CDNTs were established in Community Healthcare Organisation Dublin North City and County, CHO DNCC - CHO 9, in late September 2021. The HSE advises that current wait times for the Balbriggan CDNT indicate a total number of children waiting on services for its team of just over 600. The Deputy referenced a figure of 1,000 so I will inquire about the discrepancy there. Local management are acutely aware of these figures and are seeking improved access to services with a focus on rolling out universal and targeted care pathways for children and families awaiting Central Remedial Clinic, CRC, Balbriggan CDNT services.

The key enabler to address these figures is recruitment. We need to see therapists installed in teams to enhance capacity. As we are all aware, CDNTs are experiencing challenges in the recruitment and retention of health and social care professionals. Unfortunately, while funding has been allocated to fill vacancies, CHO DNCC is experiencing an average vacancy rate of 35%. In Balbriggan, the CDNT is operating at a 40% vacancy rate for clinical posts.

In terms of measures to address this recruitment challenge, HSE DNCC disability services along with the lead agencies are running a targeted international recruitment campaign for therapists and interviews are ongoing. Concurrently, CHO DNCC has undertaken to increase administrative support to all the CDNTs to enable existing clinical staff to devote more of their time directly to children and families.

Nationally, the HSE is also taking measures to encourage recruitment and retention of staff in CDNTs. These measures include targeted national and international recruitment, to include an agreed relocation allowance where appropriate, apprenticeship and sponsorship programmes for therapy grades, the employment of graduates as therapy assistants as they await CORU registration and the expansion of therapy assistants in the system with the HSE supporting individuals to return to education to qualify as therapists. While recruitment efforts proceed, the HSE is also driving a number of initiatives to reduce waiting times for children and families and providing the support they so urgently need, such as sourcing therapy assessments and interventions externally via private service providers.

I can advise that CDNTs have prioritisation and caseload management systems, including for assessment and intervention pathways, in place ensuring that children with the highest priority of need can access services.

This range of initiatives to improve recruitment is set out in the PDS roadmap, which is being agreed between the HSE, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and me. Funding has been provided to the HSE for 600 additional posts in recent years to strengthen the capacity of CDNTs to ensure services can be provided. Vacancies are arising not because of a lack of funding but because of supply issues in the health and social care sector for specialist therapy professionals. While this is a real challenge, I wish to reiterate my full commitment and that of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to pursuing every avenue in order to improve access and reduce waiting times for children in Balbriggan, in CHO 9 and across the country.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I thank the Minister for the response. I understand and genuinely appreciate the efforts that are being made but has the Minister thought about setting a target? It is my understanding that a figure of 600 was also quoted at the meeting but let us not quibble about the figure. We can agree that if it is 600, it is absolutely shameful and disgraceful and if it is 1,000, that is even worse. We can agree that the figure is excessive.

Ada's story illustrates what happens in these situations. The Minister said in his response that the CDNTs have prioritisation and caseload management systems in place for both assessment and intervention, ensuring that children "with the highest priority of need" can access services but children who are left on waiting lists become those with the highest priority of need because they do not get early intervention. We cannot call it early intervention. Ada's parents were incredibly proactive. They started the referral process just before their daughter was one and a half and in the intervening time she has received exactly 30 minutes of therapy. What happens in all situations like that, and Ada is one example among hundreds in my area, is that children lose out on valuable time and supports. I appreciate that there is a prioritisation for children with the highest priority of need but the children who are not the highest priority today will become so because they will be left on a waiting list.

Will the Minister consider setting a target for recruitment specifically for areas with excessively long waiting lists? I represent a constituency that has one of the youngest and fastest growing populations in the State. The damage that is being done to the children in my constituency is unconscionable. It is being done because they are being left on waiting lists and their parents are frustrated because they are running out of hope.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy again for highlighting this issue. She speaks of the parents she has met in her constituency. I am in a neighbouring constituency and have also met parents who are equally frustrated and angry and understandably so. The key way to address this is to get more staff. We need to retain the staff we have and recruit more. That is why we have been working very closely with the HSE on the roadmap which will set out concrete measures that can deliver more therapists, in both the short and longer term. The longer term is about getting more college places opened up but we all know it will take a few years for that to deliver. The short term measures include recruitment, looking at different grades and supporting the retraining of people. We are agreeing all of that with the HSE and it will be set out in the roadmap, which we hope to publish in the next number of weeks.

Since Mr. Bernard Gloster took over as CEO of the HSE he has met with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to discuss this specific issue. We have asked him to prioritise the whole area of disability within the HSE. The reason disability was taken out of the Department of Health and brought into our Department was to ensure an overall prioritisation of disability and within that, we have very clearly identified that children's disability services are the number one priority.

Finally, there is another issue that is addressed in the roadmap. What the Deputy spoke of in terms of that meeting in the Bracken Court Hotel, where parents were relating their experiences and where the very focus of the meeting got caught up in parents' experiences and their very justifiable anger, indicates that there is a gap that has developed between parents, the HSE and other service providers because parents have been disappointed and we have to work on that. That is another issue in the roadmap because we need better communication as well as better and more accurate engagement by the HSE and service providers with parents.

Wastewater Treatment

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I am back again to raise the issue of Kilcummin and to ask the Minister to reconsider the request to waive the connection fee to connect residents to the new Kilcummin sewerage scheme, which is currently under construction. I ask this in light of the positive decision a couple of weeks ago by the Government to waive levies and fees in certain instances.

I want this scheme for the people of Kilcummin to be included and the levies and fees waived. It is the first scheme I know about that Irish Water is carrying out in Kerry. Heretofore, Kerry County Council always waived the connection fee. It put the pipe up to the boundary fence, wall, wire or whatever and people could connect to it. Even after that, there is considerable cost to bring the connection to the house.

The purpose of the scheme is to protect the lakes of Killarney. Many councillors, including me when I was a councillor, have been fighting this case for more than 20 years. The scheme is now being done in some way. The whole place is uprooted and residents have gone mad. There have been residents' meetings because the traffic up there is unbelievable. They cannot come down the main road they used to use. Instead, they are using back roads. There are lorries going off roads into dykes and cars are being broken. The whole place is a mess. Irish Water is saying the residents can pay €3,900 at a later stage but that is out the window if the depth is more than 2 m or 3 m. Many of the areas on the road in question are between 5 m and 7 m down. The cost will increase way more once the depth is more than 2.5 m or whatever. Irish Water can charge whatever it likes. That means many of these people will never be able to connect to the scheme. There are between 50 and 70 houses affected. This is vital.

I raised the issue with the Taoiseach and he told me he would speak to the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. When I raised it with the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who is present, he said he would speak to the Minister and the Taoiseach. The Government is forgoing the levies in other instances and that is great - I am delighted about it - but these people should be entitled to the same. At present, many of them do not have the €3,900 needed. When the ground is open, very little work is needed to bring the pipe up to the fence.

Another issue is that once you go down 5 m or 7 m, there is a fierce problem, which is that the ground keeps falling in because it is gravel. The Killarney and Kilcummin areas are all gravel and it is falling in. Many people are asking why the pipe is not being drilled underground as is done in other places. If that had been done in Kilcummin, there would be far less trouble for the residents. I am told Kilcummin is the biggest parish in Ireland. It is one of the biggest parishes anyway. There are a serious number of people travelling to schools or nursing homes. It is close to Killarney town. The way this is being done is ridiculous. There is a lot of hullabaloo and work is going on but no one is connecting to the sewer. We are trying to protect the lakes of Killarney.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

The Deputy and I discussed the matter previously. I appreciate the challenges the new scheme is creating but it is a great opportunity. There was a meeting with Uisce Éireann and Killarney municipal district council on 24 April. There were discussions ongoing with Uisce Éireann on the matter. The Deputy has raised this Topical Issue matter in light of the Government decision last week.

The Water Services Acts 2007-2020 set out the arrangements in place for the delivery of water and wastewater services by Uisce Éireann and for the scrutiny and oversight provisions that apply in respect of these arrangements. As the Deputy will understand, the Kilcummin sewerage scheme and the provision of Kerry wastewater services in general are matters for Uisce Éireann in the first instance.

In terms of connection fees, the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, is the body responsible for setting water connection charges, as set out in Part 5 of the Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013. The Act sets out CRU's responsibility for the determination of the charges, including connection charges, and charging arrangements that apply to customers of Uisce Éireann.

The Government decision last week set out temporary arrangements for the waiving of local authority development contributions and the rebating of Uisce Éireann water and wastewater connection charges for permitted residential development that commences on site within one year of 25 April 2023, which was the date of the decision, and completes not later than 31 December 2025. A refund is to be provided on Uisce Éireann new housing standard connections for 12 months from 25 April 2023. It will not apply to quotable connections, such as network extensions or upgrades to treatment plants or pumping stations. It is an initiative to assist in meeting our annual Housing for All completion targets and is intended to incentivise activation of an immediate pipeline of new commencements, thereby positively impacting housing delivery as quickly as possible.

The scope of the Kilcummin sewerage scheme included installation of a sewer network and the construction of a pumping station. Any standard water or wastewater connections to the Kilcummin sewerage scheme in respect of new residential development that meet the conditions of the new scheme will be entitled to a refund. It should be noted that the Uisce Éireann water and wastewater standard connection charges referenced in this new scheme will still have to be paid up front by developers in the normal manner, with the moneys being subsequently refunded by Uisce Éireann on notification and verification of the commencement of works. In effect, it is a rebate rather than a waiver arrangement.

As advised previously to the Deputy, Uisce Éireann has advised that works are progressing on the sewerage scheme to which he refers. The scheme will provide a new sewer collection system for Kilcummin village and will ensure wastewater from the village is treated appropriately. It will improve water quality in the River Deenagh and Lough Leane and more generally, provide scope to facilitate future development within the catchment, and ensure compliance with EU and Irish wastewater regulations.

The Government is committed to the significant and sustained investment needed to ensure the continued operation, upgrade and repair of the country’s water and wastewater infrastructure and to support economic growth in the years to come. In this regard, budget 2023 secured more than €1.78 billion to support water services. This includes €1.65 billion in respect of domestic water services provision by Uisce Éireann. This development will deliver significant improvements in public water and wastewater services, support improved water supplies across Ireland, including rural Ireland, and support a range of programmes delivering improved water quality in rivers, lakes and the marine area, making a significant contribution to addressing Ireland’s needs. I will come back in with a supplementary reply.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Minister of State and the Government are throwing it over to Irish Water but they will take credit for what is being done and for the money they have given. I am asking for the connection fee to be waived. I have been involved in schemes like this all my life. My family is still involved in doing the schemes. I know what the cost of the scheme would be. There is no way in the world Irish Water could charge €20,000 more per connection to install the pipe for 50 to 70 houses. The Minister of State should check it out. Why is Irish Water saving this miserly sum of money and putting people to the torment of what is going on but achieving nothing? The Minister of State is saying it will protect the lakes of Killarney and the River Deenagh. It will do so in the context of the village above but the 50 or 70 houses down the road are not being facilitated at all to connect up with the Killarney pipe. It does not make an ounce of sense, if it was priced at €10,000 but charged at €20,000 for the connection.

The Government is talking about building houses. There are vacant houses along that road that need to be connected but the owners cannot afford the cost at this time. I am appealing to those in government to put their heads together. The Government - Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party - is looking for credit but, God almighty, can it not see what could be done for this small sum of money? The trench is open and all that has to be done is for the pipe to be connected to it. There is no digging needed. Irish Water should run the pipe up to the boundary fence and leave it there. I am asking for no more. The people in question will have to pay enough money to bring it to their houses anyway. There are septic tanks in trouble up there but the Government is giving no help to protect the River Deenagh or the lakes of Killarney in this instance.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I reiterate that the progress of individual wastewater treatment infrastructure such as that relating to Kilcummin is a matter for Uisce Éireann. Charging arrangements for customers is also a matter for Uisce Éireann.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

But sure ye do not have the money.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

For clarity, the temporary development contribution levy waiver was announced by the Government last week. It will apply for one year to permitted residential developments that commence from 25 April 2023. As I understand it, there have been a number of public consultation meetings in the area. There was a meeting with MDC members on 24 April. Uisce Éireann has set out the scheme with the local community.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

A contract is in place. If the Government is asking the contractors to do more than is outlined in the contract, surely it must give them the few bob more to do it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister of State, please.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

We have been clear. I have spoken to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage about this matter. This scheme we are talking about is separate from the waiver scheme that was announced last week. The Kilcummin scheme is most welcome, as the Deputy said, for protecting the lakes of Killarney and providing adequate infrastructure for the community there. The meeting with the MDC members took place, and there have been public communication meetings with Uisce Éireann. We cannot do more than that at this stage.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

It is grand to have meetings, but something has to come from a meeting. The Government gave the waiver in the other instances. It could give it for this as well if it wanted to, but it does not want to.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 9.52 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 10 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 9.52 a.m. and resumed at 10 a.m.