Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 May 2023

Vol. 1038 No. 1

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

As the Taoiseach well knows, food costs are crippling ordinary workers and families. Price hike after price hike has hit people's pockets hard. There is no sign of these costs coming down. Inflation in Irish supermarkets is at the highest level ever recorded, with the past three months alone seeing food inflation soar by up to 16.6%. The average shopper is set to see their annual grocery bill rise by €1,200. Shoppers are getting to the supermarket till and being charged eye-watering sums that they cannot afford. People's pay packets just cannot stretch any further. Yet, the Government shows none of the urgency that is needed to get to grips with the challenges people now face. This cannot continue. It is clear that action is needed today; not a vague promise, not kicking the can down the road and not the possibility of some movement in a number of months' time. We need to see concrete action that makes a difference in people's lives by cutting costs.

I understand the Government has now received the advice of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission about how to cut food costs. That advice must be published without delay. It must form the basis of a plan with teeth that will make a real difference. As the Taoiseach knows, last night Sinn Féin brought forward our plan to cut food costs that has three parts. The first is to ensure that savings made by supermarkets are passed on to consumers. The second is to instruct the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission to investigate possible price gouging in the sector. The third and crucial part is to increase social welfare and pension rates to protect people from food poverty. These measures would make a real difference to people in the here and now. Sinn Féin set out its plan in the Dáil last night and the Government did not oppose it, but now we need to hear what the Government is actually going to do. We cannot have another case of the Government talking the talk but failing to follow through when it really counts.

We have seen posturing by the Government before. We saw it with insurance costs when the Government not alone failed to act but also blocked Sinn Féin's legislation that would have helped to cut costs for people. We saw it again with our proposal to cut and cap energy prices. We also saw it with our plan to support people hit by mortgage interest hikes. People need to see action that will get them more money back in their pockets. The Government is meeting with the industry today to discuss reducing costs. We need to know precisely what the Government is going to say to the sector at this meeting. Is gá na rialacha a chur i bhfeidhm maidir leis an tionscal a thabhairt chun cuntais. Ní leor caint theolaí agus gealltanais dhoiléire. Ní mór dúinn gníomh forfheidhmithe a fheiceáil. Agus ní mór dúinn laghduithe riachtanacha ar phraghsanna a fheiceáil chun billí bia daoine a laghdú. We need genuine enforcement. We need a holding of the industry to account. Cosy chats and vague promises are not enough; we need enforcement.

When will prices for families and consumers come down? What will the Government do if the industry ignores the cosy chat today? What will it do to ensure that costs actually do come down quickly for people?

The Taoiseach

I beg your indulgence, a Cheann Comhairle, while I welcome the students from Coláiste Muire and St. Flannan's College in Ennis, who are here in Leinster House today. They are going to do a presentation later on sustainable communities. They are accompanied by Councillor Mary Howard. Deputies Cathal Crowe and Carey also wish to welcome them. They are all very welcome to the Chamber.

As I said yesterday, the Government here is under no illusions. We acknowledge that we are experiencing a period of high inflation. People saw that in their energy bills first but, thankfully, we are seeing petrol and diesel come down. I think we will see electricity and gas come down in the coming months as well. Then, as is often the case, energy inflation feeds into the cost of food, the cost of production and the cost of doing business. As a result, families are seeing a big increase in their grocery bills and in the cost of their weekly shop. We know that and acknowledge it.

We are acting. We are increasing incomes. We did that in the budget, in the public sector pay deal and by means of the national minimum wage increase. We are reducing taxes. We reduced income tax, introduced a rent credit, and we reduced VAT and excise in a budget that Sinn Féin opposed and voted against.

Let us not forget that. It voted against the budget that reduced income taxes, introduced a rent credit and reduced VAT and excise duty. It will not put that in its social media video and does not want it reported on the news. Let us not forget that Sinn Féin voted against those things when it voted against our budget.

We are taking actions to reduce the cost of living, such as reducing the costs of childcare and public transport, again in a budget that Sinn Féin lined up to vote against. Therefore, Sinn Féin should not pretend to me that we are voting down proposals it is putting forward to help with the cost of living. We put forward proposals that actually help people and Sinn Féin voted them down. That is the fact and Deputy McDonald should admit it in her follow-up reply.

The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has powers under law to investigate price-fixing, price signalling and cartel-related behaviour. It does not require an instruction to investigate. We have written to it already. If Deputy McDonald has any evidence of the crimes in question, it is important that she provide it. If she has not done so, I ask her why, because she should do so. The commission has the powers already and can act on them.

The Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Richmond, will meet representatives of the Retail Forum today. It involves the major retailers, supermarkets and their representative bodies. He will be giving them a very clear message on behalf of the Government: when their input costs went up, they increased their prices, so now that their input costs are going down, we expect them to reduce their prices.

On the question on advice from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, we have the preliminary advice. I read it this morning. It amounts to only a page and a half. I have no problem publishing it but that will be up to the commission and the Minister. The advice of the commission cautions strongly against the introduction of price controls. It points out that in Spain, for example, proposals to do so were abandoned because of the impact it would have on small retailers, particularly retailers in rural areas, which require higher margins to get by. It points to a lack of evidence in France and Greece, where controls have been introduced, indicating it has actually helped consumers. It also points to an unintended consequence in that if some prices are controlled, others that are not controlled are then put up even more. The commission very much cautions against that approach. I know Deputy McDonald has not advocated it but some of her fellow travellers in the House have.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Fáilte roimh gach duine from the Banner. We also have people here from Indiana in the US and others. They are very welcome.

I have made the case to the Taoiseach – I hope he has heard what I am saying – that a meeting with the sector, while welcome, is not enough in and of itself. A message to the sector asking it to bring costs down is welcome but that equally is not enough. The message must be that if the sector does not act, the Government will. I have asked the Taoiseach to set out what the Government will do to ensure enforcement because that is the only thing that will make a difference in the end for families and workers whose hearts are put crossways week on week by the cost of their shopping at the supermarket till. Can I put the question to the Taoiseach again? He has said he will not entertain price controls. Could he tell me what he will entertain because it will not be sufficient for the Government simply to meet this sector and ask for price reductions? There have to be some measures for enforcement. Could the Taoiseach set out clearly for the House what that enforcement will look like?

The Taoiseach

I am happy to do so. As I acknowledged earlier, we are experiencing food inflation. We now expect to see prices moderate or come down in the coming weeks and months, as they have in respect of petrol and diesel. We are doing three things. The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is meeting representatives of the Retail Forum today and will say to the retailers very clearly that if their input costs are coming down, we expect them to pass that on to consumers. We are engaging with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, a Government body that has the power to investigate price-fixing, cartel-like behaviour and price-signalling. If the Deputy has any evidence of these, I expect her to present it to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, if she has not done so already. The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has the powers and we have written to it about its responsibilities already. We did so back in November.

The Government is acting to help people with the cost of living. It is reducing income taxes and bringing in a rent credit, including €200 last week for pensioners and people on weekly welfare payments and €100 per child for middle-income families next month. The Deputy voted against all that. She should not put across the false narrative that she is putting forward solutions that we are voting down; she voted against the energy credit, the welfare Bill and the budget. None of this can happen without the budget, which she did not support.

Deputy Holly Cairns

The extortionate prices of energy and food are driving so many to the brink. For more than two years, prices have relentlessly increased. There has been no relief for people who are struggling. Prices have increased at rates that far outstrip any increase in wages. In fact, we know that real wages have gone down. The real median weekly wage has fallen by nearly €100, which is more than €5,000 per year.

While incomes are decimated, families are struggling to meet energy costs, which have doubled, and food prices, which are now in the stratosphere. Increases in energy and food prices are costing families at least an additional €3,200 annually, and that is just to eat and have enough electricity to power a home. We are not talking about workers and families who are spending disposable income on luxury goods; we are talking about parents who work hard all week and are going without meals so they can feed their children. We are talking about the 25%, a quarter, of residential gas customers whose bills are in arrears because they cannot make ends meet. We are talking about older people who are afraid to turn on the heating in their houses and who are sitting in freezing-cold rooms all day. These are people who contributed so much to our country for their entire lives, but ten of thousands of them have now been plunged into energy and food poverty and feel abandoned by the Government.

Last year, when energy prices soared after Russia invaded Ukraine, people understood prices would rise, but now that wholesale energy prices have fallen back to 2021 levels, why are ordinary consumers still being hammered with record prices? Why is the price of a basket of staple items in the supermarket continuing to rise? Tokenistic cuts to the prices of butter and milk will not cut it. It is telling that once one retailer made these reductions, everyone else piled in behind it. Clearly, it was a price reduction that they could all easily afford to make.

There is a suspicion that the supermarket chains are using Irish consumers as cash cows. Dunnes, Lidl and Tesco will not report their Irish profits. However, Aldi reported its Irish profits for the first time in 2021 and the results were revealing. Its Irish operation was 71% more profitable in 2020 than its British stores. Are the other retailers hiding similarly enormous profit margins? At the time of reporting its figures, Aldi's managing director said Ireland was more lucrative because there was less competition in the market. Perhaps there are just fewer consumer protections because we have a toothless regulator and an apathetic Government. Although the Taoiseach says he wants to see food prices come down in the next six weeks, what will he do if that does not happen? Anything?

The Taoiseach

As I acknowledged in my reply to Deputy McDonald – I want to acknowledge it again – the Government understands and knows the price of energy has gone up a lot in the past year, as has the price of groceries. We appreciate that many individuals, families and households are struggling to make ends meet, and that is why we have taken action to increase people's pay, reduce the tax they have to pay and ensure the money they have after tax goes further, including through reducing the costs of childcare, public transport and education. We will continue to do so across the summer. We will take further action at budget time, in October, as well.

The Deputy is absolutely correct on one point. In 2022, real incomes fell for the first time in maybe seven years. In other words, prices rose faster than wages. We have had enormous progress under the current Government and its predecessor in that we had real increases in wages for several years, unlike in most countries or many other countries. Last year was an exception but we expect to see real wage growth again this year, with inflation averaging 5%, the minimum wage going up by 7.8% and wages going up, on average, by more than 5%. Therefore, we expect to see a return to what has been normal in Ireland under Governments led by my party and the others in government, with wages going up in real terms every year.

It is not something that happens in many parts of the world.

Regarding electricity bills, the Deputy pointed out the number of people in arrears. What she did not point out is that the number of people in arrears on their electricity bills is at its lowest for very many years. There are fewer people in arrears on electricity bills than there were during or before the pandemic and that is because of the actions we took, particularly the electricity credit. I accept it is not the same for gas. We did not provide a credit for gas because unlike electricity, some people use gas while others use other fuels and there are complications in doing that. We expect to see the price of gas and electricity fall this year. We have already seen the price of petrol and diesel fall this year and we will use the proceeds of the windfall tax and the special dividend we have imposed on the ESB to help families in the autumn with their bills. That is certainly the plan we have.

The Deputy makes a valid point about profit margins. This is something the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is going to raise with the companies today. I have no problem with companies making profits but I do not see any reason retailers' profit margins should be much greater here than they are in other jurisdictions. That is a matter the Minister of State will raise with them today. The CCPC is a powerful regulator. As Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I brought in legislation last year, working with my Ministers of State, to strengthen that body to make sure it has all the powers any competition regulator would have in any other part of Europe and it has received additional resources.

Deputy Holly Cairns

The Taoiseach is just repeating the same tired mantra and it is starting really to lack credibility. We know general inflation does not explain the obscene price increases we are seeing across the economy. The ECB has said that. It is greed that is driving inflation now. We know certain companies are milking it and that the Government seems unwilling or unable to do anything about that. It has been politely asking energy companies to reduce their prices for months and they are just ignoring it. The Government cannot even convince a State-owned company to bring its prices down. Now we are told the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is going to wag his finger at supermarket groups and tell them to bring their prices down. He assured me yesterday that he will ask for transparency around their profit margins in Ireland versus those in other countries but it is not clear if there will be any repercussions if they do not do so or do not reduce their prices. It seems, therefore, that the Government cannot do anything about these extortionate prices or there is no plan in place.

The next issue is how the Government ensures low- and middle-income earners do not pay the price of that failure. They have suffered enough through two years of spiralling prices and they cannot take any more. For everyone's sake, please stop listing off the one-off measures the Government introduced because we all know they are not a sustainable response to a continuous crisis. What will the Government do to help people weather this storm because tax breaks are the only other thing the Taoiseach mentioned? A tax break is not a break if it erodes the basic services that underpin the cost of living and quality of life.

The Taoiseach

Many of the measures I mentioned are not one-off measures. The reduction in the price of childcare is a permanent measure and we anticipate doing more in the forthcoming budget. The same applies to the reduction in the cost of public transport. I could go on. We have taken 20 or 30 measures and many of them are permanent rather than one-off.

It is a tired narrative to say we are not taking action. Take what we have done on energy. We have imposed a special dividend on the ESB that we can now use to help homes and businesses with their energy costs. We are also bringing in a windfall tax, which, again, will raise hundreds of millions of euro that we can use to help households and businesses with their energy costs. We have also reduced VAT and excise on energy in a budget that the Social Democrats opposed. Let us not forget that. It voted against a budget in which we reduced VAT and excise on electricity, gas, petrol and diesel. That is a fact.

The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, will meet retailers today and the message from him will be very clear. When their input costs went up they increased prices for consumers and as their input costs come down, we expect to see prices for consumers come down as well. He will raise the issue of profit margins with them in that meeting.

Deputy Paul Murphy

For over a year, workers have been suffering from this cost-of-living crisis. Unite the Union conducted research which suggests that the average worker has lost €76 per week in real terms. The average family is now paying more than €1,000 extra per year on fuel, more than €1,000 extra per year on electricity and more than €1,000 extra per year on groceries. They will be asking where all this money is going. The answer is contained in the balance sheets of the big corporations. We know that in the US, corporations have the highest ever after-tax profit margins. We have new analysis from three ECB economists which reveals that two thirds of the domestic price increases people have experienced in the EU are accounted for by increased corporate profits. A recent Oxfam report found that between 60% and 80% of the price increases in Europe and the US were down to profiteering. In other words, what we have been experiencing is a profit-price spiral. It is not inflation that we are seeing; it is "greed-flation". It is greed on the part of these major corporations and nowhere is it clearer than in the case of grocery prices. The price of 2 l of milk has gone up over the course of a year by 45 cent, the price of a pound of butter has gone up by 68 cent and the price of sliced pan has gone up by 25 cent. The result in real terms is a doubling of the number of families who are relying on food banks in this country in 2023 to survive.

At the same time as this scandal is taking place, and linked to it, the supermarkets and big agrifood companies are recording record profits. Musgraves, which owns SuperValu and Centra, made more than €110 million in profits last year, which is an increase of 12%. Tesco made profits of €2.6 billion across the UK and Ireland, with a 6.6% increase in revenue in Ireland. Glanbia made €257 million in profits last year, which is an increase of 53%. At Larry Goodman's Slaney Foods and Irish Country Meats, profits increased by 27% in 2022.

What is the Government's response? The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is going to meet with the grocery companies and ask them very frankly, firmly and clearly to reduce their prices. He is going to tell that they must step up to the plate. What if they do not do so? That is the question that has been asked twice already today. What if they continue to do what they have been doing, which is maximising their profits - operating as capitalist firms in a capitalist economy to maximise their profits? Nothing. The Taoiseach just ruled out the one stick the Government has, namely, the power to introduce price controls. It is there in black and white in section 61 of the Consumer Protection Act 2007. The Government could tomorrow, literally with the stroke of two pens, say we will have price caps on essential goods. This has been hinted in the slightest by the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, as a background threat to say, "You really have to reduce your prices", but now the Taoiseach says the Government will not even countenance that because it will interfere with the market. If prices have not been reduced in six weeks' time, what will the Government do about it? Is it going to go back and ask nicely again? We need price controls.

The Taoiseach

When the Deputy misquotes and misrepresents somebody and puts words into their mouth, it just demonstrates the weakness of his argument. That is all it does. I will come back to that in a moment.

Everyone accepts that inflation is a reality and that many people and families are struggling to make ends meet as a result of it. There are many factors behind the international inflation and cost-of-living crisis. There is the war in Europe. Of course that has been part of the cause of this. The increase in interest rates is another factor. There has been a snap-back in demand post pandemic. Yes, there is profiteering by some companies and that is part of this. Bodies like the ECB have pointed to this but it is only one factor, not the sole factor. In fairness to the Deputy, in his contribution, he acknowledged that it was a factor and not the sole factor.

Deputy Paul Murphy

It is the dominant factor.

The Taoiseach

It depends on the good or service. What can the Government do about it? First, we tax profits. I have nothing against companies making profits but they should not be making margins that are out of line with those in other jurisdictions. I have said that previously. We tax the profits of companies and will continue to do so. We have a powerful competition and consumer protection regulator whose powers were beefed up last year and additional resources provided. That body has the authority to examine prices and carry out investigations where there is price fixing, price signalling or cartel-like behaviour. We are engaging with the CCPC on all of that.

In reply to the Deputy's contention, I did not rule out price controls. In response to a question from Deputy McDonald, I outlined what the preliminary advice from the CCPC was on that. That advice indicates the unintended consequences of prices that are not controlled going up even more and a very serious impact on small retailers, particularly in rural areas, and small shops that require higher margins to survive. That is why it was abandoned in Spain.

There is a lack of evidence from France and Greece that it has actually been beneficial for consumers. There is the risk of shortages and the risk of products being less available. All that is set out in the advice, which the Deputy is welcome to read. I know the Deputy is ideologically committed to the idea that governments should control prices but he has to acknowledge that there can be consequences. We know from socialist governments in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union that the consequences of price controls there were shortages, rationing and the black market. Those are not good things.

Deputy Paul Murphy

If that is not ruling out price controls, I am not sure what is, and that has been done just as the meeting is about to take place.

I know what happens in a capitalist economy because I live in one. I experience the reality of the people who come to see me and are now dependent on food banks. Around one in seven families in this State is now dependent on food banks. Why? It is true that there are a variety of factors but the increase in the prices of the basic groceries they need to survive is a crucial one. Profiteering is not just one of a myriad of factors that lies behind it; it is the number one factor, the dominant factor. ECB research suggests that two thirds of the price increases we are seeing is a consequence of the profiteering. That is there in black and white in the profits of the various corporations in the grocery sector and the big agrifood companies in this country.

To come back to the basic point, what is going to happen if the retailers do not reduce their prices? The Minister of State is quoted as saying they have to reduce their prices within six weeks. What is the stick? If the Government is not going to rule out price controls, will it rule them in? Will it say that if the retailers do not reduce their prices within six weeks, it will use the power at its disposal to introduce price controls to bring down the prices of essential goods?

The Taoiseach

We will only take an action like that if we are confident and convinced that it actually will benefit consumers. We have to bear in mind that there is ideology and there is reality. From an ideological point of view, and I appreciate that the Deputy comes from a radical socialist left-wing ideology-----

Deputy Paul Murphy

The Taoiseach comes from a radical right-wing neoliberal ideology.

The Taoiseach

-----price controls are always a good thing. We know from real experience that price controls can have negative consequences as well. This is most evident in socialist, state-run, planned economies like the Soviet Union and eastern Europe where they led to shortages, scarcity, rationing and, ultimately, a black market. We have to bear in mind experience from other jurisdictions and also potential unintended consequences. As I said, we tax the profits of these companies.

Deputy Paul Murphy

What is the Government going to do in six weeks?

The Taoiseach

We have powers under the CCPC to carry out investigations into price fixing, price signalling and cartel-like behaviour. If anyone has evidence of that, I encourage them to come forward with it.

Deputy Paul Murphy

What if there is no such evidence and it is just profiteering?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Taoiseach

There are other actions we can take as well. The meeting is happening today. The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, will be very clear in his message to retailers - when their input costs went up they put up prices and if their input costs are coming down now, we expect to see prices come down.

Deputy Cathal Berry

In light of recent media reports, I want to return to the matter of airspace management in this jurisdiction. In an effort to be constructive, we should probably reframe the debate. It is not really one of national defence but flight safety. The country is at peace, thankfully, so we should have an air policing service here with a constabulary role. That is where the focus should be. What happens in a normal EU country is that if a passenger airline, for instance, is not co-operating with air traffic control, after a time, a couple of jets are scrambled, they intercept the aircraft, do a close visual inspection, make sure the pilots are conscious and there has not been any cabin decompression. If there is a problem with communications, they use hand signals to communicate with the pilots and tell them to tweak the frequencies. If that passenger airliner remains unco-operative with air traffic control, that message is relayed back to air traffic control and other aircraft are diverted to avoid an inadvertent collision. Primarily, it is an air policing and air safety issue rather than a national defence issue.

Second, we have very busy airspace over our heads. We sit on the main air corridor between North America and continental Europe and we should have our own air policing service. The Air Corps did provide a rudimentary one in the past. The Commission on the Defence Forces recommended one when it reported some 15 months ago. That will take some time, however. It is completely reasonable, rational and responsible that, as an interim measure, we reach out to a neighbouring county with surplus capacity in this area and ask it to cover for us for a couple of years until we establish our own service. I welcome that there is at least some indication that there is an arrangement in place between the Royal Air Force and this country. I do not welcome the ambiguity surrounding it, however. It is being treated like the third secret of Fatima all over again and it does not have to be. It is normal to enter into these relationships and we should be much more open and honest in that regard. The students in the Visitors Gallery will know the words of Bill Shakespeare: "Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive". Honesty is the best policy in every circumstance but particularly when we are dealing with an issue as important as this.

Finally, I raise the primary radar system. It was also recommended 15 months ago by the Commission on the Defence Forces. Given that the Government has accepted the commission's recommendations, it is legitimate, 15 months down the track, to ask where that primary radar is. Are we going to have it in place by the end of this year or this Dáil or will it come into place at all? I would be grateful if the Taoiseach could clarify these matters.

The Taoiseach

The safety of our skies and the control of our airspace involve a number of things. There are aspects that relate to defence and national security, whether it is incursions by foreign aircraft or the possibility of a hijacking happening over our airspace. Mainly, however, it is a matter of civil aviation and air safety in the way the Deputy explained very eloquently. What are we doing? We are developing our Air Corps. On foot of the recommendations of the Commission on the Defence Forces, we are going to build up our Air Corps and radar capability so that we have an air force but it will be a small air force, appropriate for a country of 5 million people. Even then, not just on an interim basis but long term, we will need to have arrangements and co-operation with our neighbours and also our partners in the European Union, particularly through permanent structured co-operation, PESCO and, in NATO, through the Partnership for Peace. There is nothing strange about those arrangements. They are entirely appropriate.

On the Air Corps, we have a programme for the supply of two C295 maritime patrol aircraft at a cost of €230 million. They will be delivered this year. A contract has recently been awarded for a C295W fixed-wing military transport aircraft at a cost of €70 million. I do not have a date for its arrival. We also have four relatively new PC-12 aircraft that are equipped for intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance, ISTAR. These were only acquired in 2020. In total, about €350 million has been committed to improve our Air Corps capability, which is significant. In addition, AirNav Ireland, which was formerly part of the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, exercises air traffic control responsibilities for our airspace, comprising both our sovereign airspace but also airspace over the high seas over our western seaboard. However, on a routine basis, the Air Corps monitors and communicates with foreign military aircraft where such aircraft are flying in the airspace in the vicinity of Casement Aerodrome in Baldonnel, where air traffic control is provided by the Defence Forces. The eight-strong fleet of Pilatus PC-9 aircraft currently operated by the Air Corps provides a limited air-to-air and air-to-ground intercept capacity.

Deputy Cathal Berry

My major concern is the primary radar system. We have not heard anything about it in the past 15 months and, if the Taoiseach will pardon the pun, I think the primary radar is about to fall off the radar. I have no doubt that the direct interest of both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste will be needed to pursue this project. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not act on the recommendations because the Exchequer finances are in surplus. It is an ideal time to use non-recurring capital expenditure to upgrade our facilities. The reason is simple. Any passenger flying through Irish airspace is entitled to expect the same standard of safety and security as they would in any other national, sovereign airspace in the EU. I do not think they are getting that service at the moment.

They are paying for it, because we operate a tolling system whereby any aircraft that flies through Irish airspace pays a toll. However, they are not getting the service they are entitled to expect. I urge the Taoiseach and even the Tánaiste to take an active interest in this project. Otherwise, it will not be delivered.

The Taoiseach

Building up our radar is very much on the agenda and it is a recommendation we accepted from the Commission on the Defence Forces. A project team comprising senior civil and military personnel has commenced work on planning for this. It includes ground-based, maritime and primary radar systems. It is one of the early actions identified in the high-level action plan. Primary radar is extremely complex and will take some time to commission, install and operate. Delivery, however, is being prioritised. This year’s increased capital allocation for defence includes funding to explore the development of primary radar capability. I am told that the requirements for the delivery of military radar across various domains, including primary radar, are extremely complex and will need to have regard to emerging priorities, operational requirements and changes in technology. These all need to be considered in the first instance before any detailed planning in relation to site locations can be undertaken, but there have been some site visits to other member states to see how it is best done. I assure Deputy Berry that this is something I will take an interest in and I know the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence will as well. This will form part of our discussions with the senior staff of the Defence Forces and the Department of Defence.