Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 11 May 2023

Vol. 1038 No. 2

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Tá sé fíorthábhachtach d'fhorbairt eacnamaíoch san iarthuaisceart go ndéanfar uasghrádú ar bhóthar an A5 ó Dhoire go dtí Achadh na Cloiche agus chun saolta a shábháil fosta. Tá moill i bhfad ró-fhada ar an mbóthar seo mar gheall ar chásanna cúirte agus tá sé in am anois fosta ag Rialtas na hÉireann an gealltanas a thug sé ag Comhaontú Chill Rìmhinn maidir leis an tionscadal seo a chomh-mhaoiniú ag leibhéal 50% a chinntiú agus go gcuirfear i gcrích é.

The A5 road is a vital infrastructure project that was agreed by the British and Irish Governments more than 16 years ago in 2007 as part of the St. Andrews Agreement. It was recognised at the time that this project was needed to unlock the economic potential of the north west, a region that remains deprived and risks falling further behind without action. The upgrade to put in place a dual carriageway from New Buildings in Derry to Aughnacloy would improve connectivity in the region and increase access to education, skills and employment for communities within that region.

It is also a vital upgrade to what is one of the most dangerous roads on the island of Ireland. Last month, three members of the same family tragically lost their lives in a collision on that road. Since this project was first approved back in 2007, 47 people have lost their lives on the A5, with families bereaved and communities broken. On Tuesday evening there was a public meeting in Tyrone led by a grassroots campaign, Enough is Enough. It is led by Tyrone GAA and the families of those who lost their lives on the A5. They know this project is much more than just unlocking the potential of the north west but is also about saving lives.

There can be no further delays. Sinn Féin is fully committed to delivering this critical project for the people and for the communities of the north west. As part of the St. Andrews Agreement, the Irish Government agreed to co-fund this project on a 50-50 basis with a financial commitment at the time of £400 million. The Government has a crucial role to play and must match words with action and commitment with funding. With the passage of time, the cost of delivery of the A5 upgrade has increased. Our deputy leader and First Minister designate, Ms Michelle O'Neill, wrote to the Taoiseach in January this year underlining the need for the Irish Government and the Executive to remain fully committed to the delivery of the A5 upgrade. However, commitment must be more than simply words. It must be backed with funding to get it over the line. For too long this project, which is critical to save lives and improve the economic prospects of the entire north west, has been beset by legal challenges and public inquiries. Its delivery and the people who depend on this road to be completed can no longer be frustrated by delays or lack of funding commitment.

I ask the Minister that his Government recommit to the delivery of the A5 upgrade to save lives and to improve the economic prospects of the north west. I ask that the Government recommit to co-funding the project, as was previously pledged under the international agreement reached at St. Andrews in 2007, on a 50-50 basis in order that the Executive and the Irish Government can work together to deliver this crucial project for the people of the north west. I ask the Minister to give that commitment today. I also emphasise the importance of link roads such as the N2 and the road from Lifford into Letterkenny, which join this crucial infrastructure project.

Minister for Finance (Deputy Michael McGrath)

I thank Deputy Doherty for raising this issue. He is right to say that this is not just about improving infrastructure or opening up the economic potential of the all-island economy in the north west. It is also about road safety and saving lives. That is a stark statistic the Deputy put on the record, that since the upgrade was first announced in 2007, 47 people have died. That most recent tragedy was absolutely awful and our deepest sympathies go to the family and community concerned.

I reiterate the support of the Irish Government for this project, which has been long delayed and has been in gestation for a long number of years. It relates to the upgrade of the A5 from Aughnacloy to the outskirts of Derry. We all acknowledge this project is well overdue. It also involves opening up the north west in a more fundamental way, connecting Derry and Letterkenny to other parts of Ireland. We have already touched on the issue of road safety. Of course, it is a project governed by the planning process in Northern Ireland. My understanding is there have been very significant delays, legal challenges and unavoidable delays. I understand that stage 3 of the public inquiry is due to commence next Monday, on 15 May. It is to be hoped that represents a significant milestone and that this project is moving towards receiving approval over the period ahead.

In respect of the issue of funding, we acknowledge that the cost of delivering this important piece of infrastructure, along with all other items of infrastructure, has increased significantly with the passage of time. The funding arrangements in respect of the A5 have been governed by the 2014 Stormont House Agreement and the implementation plan, A Fresh Start, and are contained in the New Decade, New Approach document of 2020. Under this agreement, the Government has committed to provide funding of £75 million towards the cost of the A5 upgrade scheme once the statutory planning process in Northern Ireland has been concluded. I think it is fair to say the timeframe for the delivery of this road remains uncertain. However, provision has been made in the Department of Transport budget here in the current year of £25 million in the event that the scheme is approved and funding is actually needed. As I said a moment ago, I acknowledge costs have changed very significantly in recent years.

There is a willingness on the part of the Irish Government to re-examine this issue to see what more we can do to help bring the project to fruition. The Taoiseach echoed those sentiments yesterday. However, we do need partners we can negotiate with and have a discussion with in the form of the British Government but also the Northern Ireland Executive. Once we have a project that has gone through all the statutory processes and we know the scope and likely cost of the project, the Irish Government will not be found wanting and will engage in a spirit of co-operation, recognising the strategic importance of this road. Our commitment to the all-island economy and to all-island infrastructure has been underlined by the shared island project, which has been backed up with €1 billion of hard capital that we are prepared to make available. We have made a substantial start on making capital available between now and 2030 across a range of different areas.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I thank the Minister. As somebody who travels on that road every single week, I recognise the importance of the potential of that road but also the heartbreak that communities felt. Two weeks ago we were not able to go home via the A5 because of the tragic accident in which three people were left dead. When myself and my colleague, Deputy Mac Lochlainn, along with our delegation, left St. Andrews those 16 years ago after getting a commitment that the A5 would be upgraded to dual carriageway status and that 50-50 co-funding would be provided, little did we think that we would still be in this position and where next Monday I will attend a public inquiry to which I have made a submission.

I welcome the words of the Minister and the Taoiseach in respect of their continued commitment and that they will not be found wanting. However, I ask the Minister to go back to the position taken at St. Andrews. It is an international agreement in which the Irish Government agreed to co-finance this road at a 50% rate.

That financing was reduced as a result of the economic collapse in this State. I am asking because of the importance of this road for the entire north west and its importance in terms of saving lives. The department in the North recognised this road upgrade will prevent 2,877 casualties in the next 60 years, never mind the lives it will save. I am asking the Minister whether the Government is willing to go back to the position it held in the St. Andrews Agreement where there was to be co-financing of the road on an equal basis.

Deputy Michael McGrath

The next step here is to have an agreed and approved project. This is a project that is still in the statutory planning process. We hope it will come through that in the not-too-distant future. What the Taoiseach and I have signalled is a willingness for us to have a conversation with our partners in Northern Ireland and with the British Government to see what more might need to be done on behalf of this Government and this State to bring about the delivery of this project. We recognise how important it is economically, socially and, of course, from a road satiety point of view, but we need to have a project that is approved.

It has had a long journey to get to this point. Again, I point to the fact that we have made a substantial capital commitment of €1 billion out to 2030. So far we have allocated almost €200 million under the shared island fund. We are, therefore, backing up our words with cash and with a financial commitment. We are prepared to have that discussion once we have an approved project and once we have people to sit down with to discuss this issue.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Earlier this week I raised with the Taoiseach the desperate case of Micheline Walsh and her husband, who are in their late 70s and facing eviction. I said then they were not alone and, very sadly, today we see a report from Alone and Threshold on older and ageing persons in the private rental sector. The report notes 40% of older people who are now renting expect to have to continue renting in the private market for the rest of their lives. Many of them are reporting high stress as a result of the housing insecurity they are experiencing as renters. These are the hidden victims of the housing crisis. These are people - pensioners - who have worked all their lives and contributed to society in innumerable ways and are supposed to be able to enjoy retirement in peace and security. Instead, older people are faced with the constant stress of housing insecurity, which we all know has a detrimental effect on health. Many older people are forced to move prematurely into nursing homes and are denied their right to live independently by the chronic shortage of homes.

Time and time again the struggles of older people and their situation are ignored by society and the State. Our entire housing and pension system has for far too long relied on the assumption people aged over 65 years will have paid off their mortgages, own their own homes and will not be renting. As Minister for Finance, the Minister will be aware the non-contributory State pension assumes this. It sits at a meagre €13,000 per year. Even with the housing assistance payment, HAP, how could anyone be expected to pay a mortgage or for private rented accommodation on that income? Our pension system is totally unfit for purpose when so many people aged over 65 years, and people who will soon be aged over 65 years, face having to rent into the future in a situation where rents have been allowed inflate so rapidly.

The housing policy of the Minister's Government does not support those who are most vulnerable and most in need of its support. The figure for people expecting to rent into pension age will only rise. Our population is ageing rapidly, and with the chronic housing shortage, the many generations locked out of homeownership will need a more sophisticated pension system to cope with the rising cost of housing. This is the ticking time bomb of the housing crisis. As Minister for Finance, the Minister will be aware of this. I am increasingly hearing, as we all are, from people in their 40s and 50s who are still renting long after they thought they would be able to afford to buy their own home. We all know that thousands of people in their 20s and 30s, the youngest generation now adults, have already accepted they have no prospect of owning their own home. They do not see any prospect of being able to do so.

The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage stated the research published today would "help inform our policies and target our housing actions further", as if this problem had appeared out of thin air and was not a result of two successive Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Governments. It is a disgrace the problem has been allowed get so bad and that we have waited until we have 12,000 people homeless, including 175 people aged over 65 years in emergency accommodation, before we see specific action for the elderly.

Will the Minister commit to reimagining our pension system to ensure no one needs to live in poverty during their retirement and to reinstate the eviction ban so older people in particular who are renting will at least not experience the insecurity they are facing in so many ways?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank the Deputy. As she knows, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is going to launch this report later today with Threshold and Alone. That reflects the seriousness with which the Government treats this issue. The Minister will, of course, consider the findings of the report, which is a research report. It provides us with more information. That helps inform policymaking and allows us as a Government to plan and prepare for the future, but it is a reminder of a number of fundamental truths. We have an ageing population. The number of people aged 65 years and over is going to double over the coming decade or so. At the moment, there are about four people of working age for everybody of pension age, and in the coming decades that ratio will halve to 2:1. That has implications for pension provision, the cost of healthcare, the cost of home care, and so on. It is why we need to plan and prepare for the future. As well as seeking to address the immediate needs, and there are many acute immediate needs, we must also make financial provision to meet the age-related costs we know are coming our way.

It is an undeniable fact that those who are in a position to buy their first home are doing so at an older age than before and there are more pensioners renting than there were in the past. We understand that the added difficulty, concern and anxiety the insecurity of being a tenant can sometimes bring are even greater for those who are of pension age. That is an understandable fact. It is why the Government has made, will continue to make and will step up significant investment in the delivery of age-friendly housing through our local authorities and the approved housing bodies. We have some fantastic examples all over the country of retirement villages where there are shared services and people can live close to an urban centre and be part of a community with access to facilities and services. We need far more of that to be developed over the period ahead.

The Deputy might want to clarify what she means in relation to pensions and what she is asking for in terms of pension policy. This Government and previous governments have always recognised the extra costs many older people face and have sought to reflect that in the decisions we have made when it comes to pension supports and secondary benefits. This report is focused on older people who are renting. We acknowledge the challenge and concern that is there. It is a reminder to all of us of the need to continue to make progress in the supply of all forms of housing, especially public housing. This Government will double down on the delivery of more public housing into the future because that is where the solution ultimately lies. We will continue to support people in this circumstance through HAP and so on, but we know that for older people that does not give them the security of tenure and peace of mind they want to have as they move into older age.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I thank the Minister for the response. I commend the authors of the report from Threshold and Alone, because they have shone a spotlight on what is, as the Minister has acknowledged, a problem we are going to see increasing with an ageing population and the ticking time bomb resulting from the chronic housing shortage. However, the Minister's Government needs to do something about this. Once again we are hearing a lack of urgency from the Minister when it comes to actions. On pensions, we have called for them to be indexed to the rate of inflation. On insecurity of housing for persons renting into older age, what the Government can do is stabilise the rental sector and make it a viable option for people to live in long-term. Across Europe, older people live in the rental sector long-term in peace, in full security and without the prospect of eviction. That is the difference here. Not only are people unable to afford to pay rents given the level of pension we have currently, but there is also the insecurity of facing a situation where evictions are permitted again. That is before we get into the huge difficulties experienced by so many in trying to find alternative accommodation when they have been evicted. It is very difficult and especially for older persons, those who might not have access to the Internet and those forced to queue down the block for accommodation. There is such a shortage.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank the Deputy. I want to give assurance that, especially when it comes to older people served with an eviction notice, we will move heaven and earth to help them and find a solution.

Whether it be through our local authorities or approved housing bodies or the interventions we are supporting at a national level, we will help people and we will find solutions. We will not allow older people to be in that situation. That does not remove the stress felt when an eviction notice is served on them, which I recognise. As a State, we have a good record of treating older people with dignity and respect and we will support them and find solutions in those individual cases where these issues arise. There is a wider systemic issue and it is about us ensuring we meet the demand and the needs that are undoubtedly there and that will grow in the future. As the Deputy knows, when it comes to pension decisions and so on, those will be considered in the context of a budget in the coming months.

Deputy Michael Lowry

In February of this year I raised the need for reform of the entire process surrounding medical negligence litigation. In general, when a person accesses the healthcare system, the reasonable expectation is that the care and treatment received will be provided by competent and qualified professionals. There is also an expectation that treatment will take place in a safe environment and that no unnecessary harm will come to the person. By and large, this expectation is realised but there are situations where unintentional complications can arise. Things can and do go wrong. If problems arise, the results can cause devastating emotional, and sometimes physical, consequences. These consequences can be life-changing. Ultimately, there is a strong possibility that the circumstances surrounding the events will lead to a claim for medical negligence.

Over the past ten years, damages paid by Irish hospitals in medical negligence claims have run to a whopping €1.8 billion, and they are rising rapidly. This escalation in the number of claims is disturbing and will be a major drain on the economy. If a person has suffered harm as a result of negligent treatment by a medical professional, he or she is entitled to be compensated for the suffering and impact it has caused. This is an unquestionable fact. The process of securing this compensation can and often does prove extremely arduous. The process is insufferable and agonising in a significant number of cases. According to a report from 2021, the adversarial nature of litigation makes the process conducive to "a protracted, contentious, emotionally draining and expensive legal battle".

Part of the reason for this is that the vast majority of people cannot undertake proceedings without legal supports. If you search online for information on medical negligence, you will find numerous pages of legal firms all claiming to offer the best possible advice and service to misfortunate patients. Once the patient enters legal doors, the protracted battle begins. Many of these cases drag on for years with mounting legal costs. The patients may win the case but at what cost financially and emotionally? Meanwhile, on the flip side, there is a medical professional who has a case hanging over his or her head, a dark cloud that hangs over him or her for the prolonged duration of the case. Due to the prevalence and fear of litigation we have reached a situation where many consultants are reluctant to make a surgical intervention in a borderline case.

By way of information, could the Minister advise if this compensation is coming from the HSE budget or the State Claims Agency? The most effective way to reduce and constrain soaring medical litigation is to invest in the health service. We should invest in accommodation, facilities, technology and staffing levels. We are spending millions on settling compensation claims because of neglect arising from understaffing, a lack of beds and a lack of facilities, which leads to overcrowding, delays and pressurised situations which result in human error.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and there are a number of different strands to this. Where a case is taken, we need to ensure that case and claim are dealt with as efficiently as possible. None of us want to see instances where, especially in the case of catastrophic injuries, it takes many years and eventually on the steps of a court a settlement is agreed. We are seeing an increasing role for mediation in the settlement of these cases. The State Claims Agency has a difficult job to do in managing clinical negligence cases on behalf of the State but we also have a duty to the people who are bringing the claims and who, in many instances, have an entitlement to compensation as a result of what has happened. Looking at mediation, for example, 59% of claims resolved by the State Claims Agency in 2021 were resolved without court proceedings being served. That is a good start but we need to build on that and go further. Mediation is particularly suitable for complex clinical claims. Some 37% of claims were concluded by the clinical claims team in 2021 where damages were paid in the mediation process, compared with 25% of claims in 2020.

The Deputy touches on the root cause of the issue and we have to ensure we reduce the number of incidents where reason is given for claims to be brought in the first place. As would be expected, the HSE is placing an enormous focus on this through the patient safety strategy, which is being implemented. We expect that to have an impact over time. The Deputy is right to point to the dramatic increase in the cost of such claims. That is why in January of this year the Government approved the establishment of a new working group to examine the rising cost of health-related claims and to consider mechanisms to reduce costs. It will examine the rising cost of clinical negligence claims in the health system with a focus on high-value claims, and it will identify measures that could be put in place to reduce future costs. It is being chaired independently by Dr. Rhona Mahony and is comprised of membership from across key Departments and Government agencies. That also builds on the work of Mr. Justice Meenan's expert group on tort reform and the management of clinical negligence claims and its report, which identified a number of key issues that are being worked on by the Department of Justice. This includes the issue of the real rate of return and the volatility in some of the catastrophic birth injury settlements we are seeing.

We need to remove the incentive for cases to have to go that far and then have a system that ensures cases are settled far earlier. In addition to all of that, we must try to deal with the root causes and the issue the Deputy has referred to, namely, the response of the medical profession and the impact that may have on patients due to the fear of a claim being brought.

Deputy Michael Lowry

I welcome the fact that the Government established the interdepartmental working group. However, it does not go far enough. The Minister referred to the mediation process and there are many instances where an independent early mediation between the patient and medical professional can resolve a situation in a cost-effective manner. There is merit in having a cap on compensation amounts for certain specified cases, which would lead to prompt settlement at such mediation. Such systems work effectively in other jurisdictions. There are advantages to eliminating costly court hearings that take forever to resolve. The Government needs to be conscious that the HSE has a tendency to run costly legal battles and ultimately settle at the last moment on the steps of the court. This seems to be the norm with it. Why can it not settle without the legal costs? We understand that medical litigation is a complex matter but our system in Ireland has created a minefield and a money pit. It is time to scrutinise and revise that system because it is costing taxpayers and the Exchequer a fortune every year.

Deputy Michael McGrath

There will be individual cases that go all the way to court or to the steps of the court. That is unavoidable. There are two parties involved and there are lawyers providing legal advice to their clients and some people will want to have their day in court, but they are a small minority. The vast majority of claimants want to reach a settlement as early as possible in the process, and that is the most cost-effective way from the State's point of view because, looking at the figures in 2020, legal costs for clinical claims represented 18% of the total cost of all claims. It stands to reason that the earlier in the process a settlement is reached, the lower the percentage of the overall cost of the claim that will be attributable to legal costs. It is in the State's interest and the claimant's generally for cases to be settled early. I assure the Deputy that this is an area of focus across Government and a number of Departments from the point of view of costs, which are rising very significantly, and we have to be alive to that and address that, but also because, in the case of genuine claims where there is a settlement due, we want that to happen earlier in the process.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

When I raised this matter with the Tánaiste previously, he wondered why it was even being brought up. I am again raising the issues of defective blocks in Donegal and, indeed, in more and more areas across the country. Despite the Tánaiste's best hopes, this issue has not been resolved. It is pressing for the families affected and getting more and more so. There is constant worry as to where families are going to go and the difficulties they will have in getting children to school when they are living away from home while their houses are being repaired and as to how estates will be dealt with when not all homeowners are in the same place with regard to the repair of houses. All of these issues still remain to be dealt with. However, one of the most pressing issues with the 100% redress scheme - mar dhea - is that what it covers is far from 100%. Most householders will have to pay at least €60,000, and possibly a lot more, to get into the 100% redress scheme.

The banks and insurance focus group of the defective block homeowner working group has shown that the banks are equal shareholders in the problems faced by homeowners. The group needs the Government to get on board with holding them to account and demands that it does so. It has identified that all of the banks' mortgage terms and conditions contain covenants that make the repair of homes potentially automatic default events. Mortgage providers are standing outside the remediation issue, taking all of the benefits without any of the pain of having to deal with remediation. Homeowners have the stress of living in homes that are defective for reasons that are not their fault and are trying to navigate the process of applying for remediation and finding the money to bridge the 100% scheme gap while the banks and building societies sit and demand full repayment without assisting at all. At the very least, the banks should provide the homeowners with the funding to meet the difference under the 100% scheme so that homeowners have only one organisation to deal with. Recognising that the defective homes are assets of the financial organisations used to secure funding, surely those organisations would not lie to investors and say that the assets are worth what they claim.

The Minister has said that the banks need to come on board at a later stage and be understanding. Surely he recognises that is not good enough and that the softly-softly approach is not tenable. Will he recognise that the banks have a role to play at every stage in the redress process and genuinely make sure that they participate now for the benefit of those who own homes affected by the use of defective blocks as well as all the citizens of Ireland, who will ultimately carry the cost of this scheme?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank Deputy Pringle very much for raising this issue. Just yesterday, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, met with members of the Mica Action Group. The regulations are being finalised. The Minister expects that they will be in place in the coming weeks and that the new scheme will finally be in place and up and running. Of course, anyone in the current scheme will get the uplift of the benefits of the new scheme.

Before I respond on the issue of the banks and insurance companies, I will address the issue of costs and the cap, which the Deputy has raised consistently. As he will know, the chartered surveyors have provided updated rebuilding costs for 2023 for Donegal and Mayo. Those were received at the end of February and relate to eight house types. They show an increase of 13% to 15% across those eight house types since the first cost report in February 2022. Building costs for 2023 for Clare and Limerick were received on 18 April and are currently under consideration with the expert group. That is just to give an overall update. The value of the scheme is currently estimated at approximately €2.7 billion. It is a significant commitment on behalf of the State and taxpayers to remedy this situation, which is only right.

Insurance companies and banks have a role to play. I have agreed to meet with the subgroup of the Mica Action Group that is focused on banking and insurance issues. The Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, has also agreed to meet with the group in respect of insurance. We will do this at one meeting. I recognise the reality that taxpayers' money is being used to repair or reconstruct assets that are the security for loans held by the banks. Equally, it is the taxpayers rather than insurance companies who will be funding the costs involved. Banking and Payments Federation Ireland, BPFI, has been in correspondence with the Mica Action Group and has indicated a willingness to meet and to enter into a process and structured dialogue. I welcome that and think it is important. As I indicated to Deputy Doherty, who raised this issue, as have colleagues in Government, in the House the other evening, I will do whatever I possibly can to support the homeowners on those banking and insurance-related issues. The Minister of State and I will meet with the homeowners to see what we can do to provide assistance on the banking and insurance issues Deputy Pringle has identified.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I thank the Minister for the update on the scheme. I welcome the fact that he is meeting with the working group for the owners of defective homes. That is vitally important. It is a sad reflection that the group has had to do the work to show that the banks are responsible and have commitments they must honour with regard to these mortgages when the Government should have undertaken that process. I am glad that the Government is coming to the table, but I hope the Minister will take this on board, continue with it and ensure that the banks play their part. The very least the banks can do is to provide the funding for homeowners to cover any gaps in the scheme. We will wait to see whether the increases the Minister has talked about actually reduce those gaps. Any gaps should be funded by those who own the mortgages on the properties in order that householders can get some service from the scheme and can see their way through it rather than having to deal with credit unions and other financial institutions. Unfortunately, the turmoil caused by what has happened is going to go on for years because of the sheer number of houses that have to be dealt with. It needs to be done right. I welcome that the Minister is to meet with the group. I hope he will continue on and make the banks accountable in this regard.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I am happy to meet with the homeowners to see what assistance I can provide. I recognise that practical issues will arise for them with regard to their mortgages. In many instances, people will be out of their homes for prolonged periods. While the State is assisting in other ways, people may well need support and assistance from their financial institutions. I always have to say that commercial decisions are a matter for the banks, but I believe that everybody has to work together to support the homeowners in what will be a difficult transition for some and when complex and practical issues will arise with regard to both insurance and banking. I am happy to meet with the homeowners and to follow up on whatever issues they convey to me, where I feel I can be of assistance in the period ahead.