That is a good point to go to Deputy Boyd Barrett.
Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]
The following motion was moved by Deputy John Brady on Tuesday, 16 May 2023: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after “That” and substitute the following:
"Dáil Éireann resolves that the Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023 be deemed to be read a second time this day nine months, to allow for further consideration of the Bill, as the Bill as drafted raises specific practical and legal questions, is not likely to achieve its intended purpose and it is appropriate to consider in addition whether a combination of legislative and non-legislative approaches could be adopted which would achieve an appropriate human rights based outcome.”.
- Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)
It is. I am sharing time with Deputy Gino Kenny.
I thank Sinn Féin for introducing this Bill, which we are happy to support. Israel is not only guilty of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and settler colonialism on the historical land of Palestine, but it is now guilty of that at Dublin Airport as well. I received an email on 8 May from a young Palestinian woman who was studying in UCD and was taking a flight on a newly established route - I was not aware of it - with EL AL, an Israeli airline, from Dublin to Tel Aviv. Since it is relevant to understanding the nature of the Zionist state, people should know that, if you are from Jerusalem and you are Palestinian, you are issued with an Israeli travel document that refuses to acknowledge your Palestinian identity.
It identifies you as Jordanian. That is important because the fundamental fact about the Zionist state is that it does not acknowledge the existence of Palestinians. This is what happened to a young woman when boarding a flight. I will just read some of the email.
First, at the El Al check-in counter in Dublin Airport, I was denied by the airline's Israeli security from carrying any kind of luggage to the plane including my personal bag which included my laptop and my work phone. I was the only one discriminated against in the check-in queue, investigated with, and asked to go to the departure gate 20 minutes earlier than everyone else for a special security check.
At the departure gate, I was the only one picked from tens of passengers queueing; taken to a separate room where I was searched and harassed by the mentioned Airline's Israeli security. After the Israeli security have conducted a full-body security check on me [This is a young woman] they commanded me to physically remove my clothes; threatened me - despite me saying no - that if I don’t take off my trousers, they will deny me boarding on the flight. I had a breakdown in the airport and that did not stop them from harassing me; I was dazzled that this has happened on Irish grounds.
She goes on. That is a disgrace but it is absolutely emblematic of what the Israeli state is all about. On the day after the 75th anniversary of the Nakba, we need to understand that the 750,000 illegal settlers on land that is designated as Palestinian land under international law, the ongoing campaign to ethnically cleanse people like this young woman and her family from East Jerusalem, the criminal siege of Gaza, which is a war crime and crime against humanity in the same way as the illegal settlements, the ethnic cleansing and the apartheid policies practised in Israel, in the occupied territories, in Gaza and now in Dublin, are absolutely unacceptable.
The question is: what are we going to do about it? This goes on and on. It has gone on since the foundation of the State of Israel. It is not some aberration. That is something that was made absolutely clear by David Ben-Gurion and Chaim Weizmann. Even when they agreed to the partition plan, a disastrous plan that led directly to the Nakba, in well-recorded personal conversations they made clear that they had no intention of sticking to the partition plan and that they were out to seize all of the land. When asked about the Nakba, the great Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish described it as "an extended present that promises to continue into the future"; in other words, he said the Nakba is ongoing. The plan is to ethnically cleanse all of Palestine of Palestinians, to deny their existence, to treat them as subhuman, to steal their land and to drive them out of existence. That is the nature of the Israeli regime and the Zionist project. I really wonder when we are going to wake up to that fact. Millions of Palestinians in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria have been rotting in refugee camps for generations even though they have a right under international law to return to the lands from which they were expelled. Does anybody seriously believe Israel is even remotely interested in vindicating that right, a right under international law? At this stage, does anybody seriously believe that Israel's signing of the Oslo peace accords was anything other than a smokescreen to continue the project of ethnic cleansing? It was never serious about a two-state solution.
We not only need to pass this Bill, but we also need to support full boycott of, divestment from and sanctions on the entire apartheid regime and State of Israel because it is a state built on ethnic cleansing and on denying Palestinians their most basic rights, that is, the right to be treated as human beings, the right to self-determination, the right of return, the right for their land not to be stolen from them and the right not to be collectively punished with the decade-long siege of Gaza. It is shocking, yet the Government says that we have to delay this. When are the sanctions going to come? We were eventually forced to introduce sanctions against apartheid South Africa. Are we going to twiddle our thumbs and allow all this to happen, even the affront of what is happening in our airport? How could this happen? It is absolutely shocking. I ask the Minister of State to withdraw the Government's amendment and allow the Bill pass. I would go further but I am happy to support this Bill. The apartheid, the ethnic cleansing and the settler colonialism has to be reckoned for what it is. It is an absolute affront to any idea of equality, human rights or human decency. The world has to stand up against this horror and finally take action to vindicate the rights of Palestinians.
I commend Deputy Brady on the Bill. It is quite a modest Bill and is in line with the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement across the world to condemn apartheid Israel. The Minister of State and his Government have a chance to send a message not only to apartheid Israel, but to the world. Can he imagine the message going out that an Irish Government has finally taken the stance, through a modest Bill such as this, that there must be economic consequences to apartheid?
Last week, we saw how distorted and racist Israel is. Israel bombed a house in the Gaza Strip last week, killing eight children. When asked by a journalist whether Israel can take responsibility for murdering eight children, the Israel Defense Forces commander said, "We'll look into it." After the murder of eight children, he said, "We'll look into it." What sort of barbarians are these people? What sort of savages are we talking about? After the killing of eight children, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "We'll look into it."
Israel is not a normal state but the Minister of State's Government, successive Governments and governments throughout the European Union keep treating it like a normal state. We can do something. Some of us feel powerless here but we can do something, such as passing Senator Black's Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018 and this Bill to send the message to Israel that there are consequences to occupation. By not challenging apartheid, the Minister of State is complicit in it. There has been 75 years of occupation and brutality. There has also been 75 years of silence. More importantly, there has been 75 years of resistance by the Palestinian people against occupation and 75 years of international solidarity that sees the people of Palestine being constantly oppressed by a racist regime.
There have to be economic, political and diplomatic consequences for Israel. It constantly gets away with it. The murder of eight children last week was just one action of the murderous regime in Israel. It will constantly get away with this if the Government does not tell the Israeli ambassador to get the hell out and that we do not want her here because of Israel's constant murder of children. If there are no consequences, a murderous regime like Israel's will constantly do things like this until people stand up. The Palestinian people constantly stand up to Israel. Now it is up to Ireland, the Irish Government and the Irish people, to say that we have had enough of apartheid in Israel. As a country, we need to stand up. Supporting this Bill is one way of sending that message out.
I too welcome the opportunity to speak on the very important Bill. We have had a lot of discussion about all of the atrocities happening in Ukraine and our attitude towards them. There has been a lot of suffering there. For some reason, we seem to not want to talk about what is happening on the other side of the world and what is happening between Israel and Palestine. We have to talk about it, however. As a neutral country and a country that suffered a lot over a long period, it is time we stand up to the plate, look at what we can do, lead internationally and tell the international community what we are doing.
This Bill is a small step but it sends a clear message to the world that we do not tolerate what is going on. Pushback will come on the basis that we would not want to do that because we may put ourselves in a position in which we would lose out financially, economically or internationally in investment times. At the end of the day, as the Minister of State knows well, there is no price for children who are killed. I got a card in the post this morning, as I am sure every Deputy did, about a 13-year-old who was killed. This year alone, 20 innocent Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli fire. I will not be judge and jury on all of that but there is something wrong when that kind of thing happens and goes unchecked and has been going on for decades. We must not worry about the consequences of an action we will take on this matter, such as an economic sanction. Although it is a small one, I think we should take this as a first step to alert Israel to the fact that, no more than Russia, we do not want to see other power blocs killing innocent people. We must get the problem solved. As a country, we had a lot of strife in the North of Ireland during which many innocent people were killed, which was followed by a peace process. We must stand up and say there will be economic consequences if it continues and if Israel comes on board, we can negotiate a peace process. It cannot go on forever.
I heard as a young child about the Gaza Strip and everything that was going on there. It is still going on. Maybe, as a person who is older now, we are getting immune to the whole thing and we ignore it. I do not think we can and as politicians and legislators, we have an opportunity to send out a clear economic statement, which we did with Ukraine. We used economic means as a tool to try to curb the atrocities happening in Ukraine. We should do the same thing in this case. It is tokenism really but it sends a clear message and we should do it. It would be a great day for us in the House if we were to do this. I support the Bill as it has been introduced and I hope the Government will not, with its amendment, postpone it for nine months. If 20 children have already been killed this year so far, in another nine months, what will happen? We must plough ahead and be brave enough to do it. We now have a voice in the UN, as a permanent member of the United Nations. It would be a fantastic way for us to show our mettle as a small country, which is lucky to now live in peaceful times.
I welcome the tenor of the Bill and the principles to which it speaks. The Irish people do not in principle support any type of State investment that is seen to underpin or to profit from the ongoing annexation of Palestine by the state of Israel. We in Ireland know at first hand what colonialism looks like and what partition does to a country and its people. We know what apartheid engenders in terms of discrimination and subjugation of a national citizenry, which is denied the basic rights of free movement in their own country, denied equal access to education and to occupation and recognition of their right to call their home, "home". I do not think anyone in Ireland would question the right of Israel to exist nor of its people to prosper but neither should we be blind to some Israeli policy which delivers such a message contrary to the Palestinian people. The segregation of communities may have some legitimate purpose in peacekeeping and securing individual lives and property but the bulldozing of Palestinian settlements and schools could not be condoned in any such way, nor could the indiscriminate use of lethal force by the Israel army when faced with protestors at its borders. Lethal force has been deployed intermittently for many years by the Israeli army. This was made all too clear in the last two years with the significant loss of life, including those of international journalists trying to report on border demonstrations, who died as a result of indiscriminate Israeli army tactical firing. This is not the way to build peace.
We must acknowledge - when I say "we", I do not just mean those of us in this House but also those of us in this country who feel that these are not the activities of a vulnerable state but the actions of an aggressive administration subjugating those within their population who they do not see as citizens but rather as sometimes enemies. It is an economic and social reality that many Palestinians may work doing menial jobs in Israel but they will never be accepted as citizens of equal standing by most who sit in Israeli political administration. Subjugation is supported by Irish political acquiescence through national Exchequer investment and decision-making. This is an abhorrent policy that would find no general support among the Irish people. They would wish, where it occurs, for it to stop immediately.
My experience of Palestine is informed not by personal visit but by personal relationship. In a previous role more than two decades ago, I gave employment to a Palestinian refugee who had managed to leave the occupied West Bank. I formed a strong relationship with this man over the subsequent 20 years and I have seen him suffer the passing of his father, mother and brother without ever setting eyes on them again other than through chat phone technology. He has made several trips to Egypt where family travelled to meet him but he was never able to cross the border into Palestine for fear that authorities would not let him exit again. He is now married with two children and lives in Waterford. To this day, to my knowledge, he has never got closer to his homeland than Egypt. This is the reality of partition and subjugation. Policies may be expressed in the name of peace but they do not engender peace. As we in Ireland celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, we can see the only charter for a resolution of this Palestinian question is one in which both sides realise the past is no place from which to build peace and that all people can only come together and live together through an engendered spirit of peace. Freedom is not possible without equality. It is now our job to try to build pressure and exert such a move to a fairer and just society for both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens.
The simple meaning of "divest" is to strip or deprive someone or something of their property or rights. In international law, annexation is the forcible acquisition of one state territory by another state, usually following military occupation of a territory. It is generally held to be an illegal act. I welcome Sinn Féin bringing this to our attention and acknowledge we can do something about this as a nation. Palestine is victim to annexation by Israel, where there are currently 130 illegal settlements, with 700,000 illegal Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem. We in Ireland are also involved; some of the funds from the National Treasury Management Agency have been invested in this area. This means our Government and taxpayers are conflicted and have become stakeholders in the illegal annexation of Palestinian territories. The United Nations has repeatedly condemned these actions and violations of international law, which are a major obstacle to peace in the region. Are we not all about peace in Ireland? Yet, our Government wants to delay this Bill. In summary, this is a conflict within the UN, the EU and the Geneva Convention.
Palestinian children have been killed. We have heard many speakers tonight talk of children being killed. I urge the Minister of State and his Government to reconsider and to progress this Bill urgently.
I am delighted to have time to speak on this Bill. The legislation aims to prevent the NTMA from investing in businesses that operate in illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. It requires the NTMA to ensure that no assets from the ISIF are invested in such businesses and, if it becomes aware that the ISIF has invested in such businesses, it must divest these assets from the investment. The purpose of this legislation is to prevent Ireland from being involved in illegal Israeli activities and to end the oppression of the Palestinian people. The objectives of the Bill are to impose certain prohibitions and restrictions on the investment by the National Treasury Management Agency of the assets of the ISIF in undertakings that appear on the UN database of companies operating in the illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. The Bill also requires the NTMA to ensure that such assets are not invested in such undertakings and, where it becomes aware of an undertaking in which such assets have been invested in businesses that are or have been on the UN database, to divest the assets of that fund from such investments. The Bill provides for related matters as well.
I have been thinking about what has been going on in Israel and Palestine for a long time. As a young man, I had great admiration for what the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, PLO, was doing. I am now, quite frankly, having second thoughts on this issue. I have listened to both sides of the argument. We must listen to both sides of the argument if we hope to get anywhere. While I condemn and abhor the murder of children and the slaughter of human beings by Israeli attacks, there is also the constant digging of tunnels underneath and launching of rockets overhead to provoke the Israelis. Two wrongs do not make a right. We saw how long the Troubles in the North lasted, from 1969 to the peace process. We should perhaps look at this example and try to use it as a neutral country. I refer to when we were a neutral country and had credibility right through from the foundations of the State up until recently.
We are no longer neutral now, however, because we have decided to be wholly involved on one side in the war in Ukraine. Most of the political parties here, indeed, all of them I think, are backing what is going on there to the detriment of the other side. I am no fan of Russia but if we are neutral, we are neutral. We played our role in the League of Nations, United Nations and elsewhere as peacekeepers and have done so. I want to stop any funds from being invested by our NTMA, or whatever, or from businesspeople in this regard, but I do not want the doublespeak that goes on here all the time regarding us being neutral. The Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin, when he was Taoiseach, told us our neutrality was outdated and we must look at it again. We are also told that we are sending overcoats, helmets and minesweeping equipment to Ukraine. It is as if we had a navy here that would let us do something. We had respect as a neutral country but much of this has been sadly diminished by our involvement in this regard. We have turned a blind eye, a súil dúnta, to different wars in Iraq, Syria and different parts of the Middle East and everything else. There was not a sound out of us. We have become selective in whom we condemn, where that condemnation should fall and what we should say or do on that issue. We are, therefore, very mixed up here, with a kind of liquorice allsorts of neutrality.
As I said, I abhor violence. I was a fan of the late Fr. Alex Reid, Dr. Martin Mansergh and the former Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern, and many others who brought about the peace process in the North. We have a lot to offer in this regard, but not while we keep undermining our neutrality by being one-sided in the Ukraine war and by not condemning the United States for any directions, or NATO for that matter. We saw what happened in Syria and Afghanistan and the mess they made there. We must, therefore, undertake a lot of soul-searching and thinking here as we go forward. This Bill may not be as simple as it looks.
I welcome the opportunity to support this Bill brought forward by Sinn Féin. I thank Deputy Brady for doing the work and bringing it forward. This Bill aims to prevent the National Treasury Management Agency from investing in businesses that operate in illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. I support this aim. We know our own story. We were an oppressed nation for 700 or 800 years and these people are clearly also being oppressed. Sadly, children are being killed every day. Even though I do respect our neutrality, I refer to a situation where we do not have an army and we cannot even find out what the Russian boats are doing off the coast of Castletownbere or Dingle.
Today, 75 years after the UN voted to divide Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, Palestinians are still waiting for one. While Israelis celebrate 14 May 1948 as their Independence Day, Palestinians bemoan it as a catastrophe, when some 700,000 of them were forced from their homes or just fled. Israel now practically rules over 7 million Palestinians, including those in Israel, and in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which are internationally regarded as the basis of an independent Palestinian state. The UN voted to divide the country but at the same time, that organisation is abdicating its role to ensure that fairness is applied on both sides.
I reiterate that I respect our neutrality and we certainly thank Eamon de Valera for taking that stance back during the Second World War when England was trying to drag us into it, especially after what it had done to our forefathers over hundreds of years. He did the right thing. Many ordinary, down-to-earth people appreciate our neutrality and they understand it. We are not even paying the personnel in our Army properly. It is not so long ago since they had to get family income supplement to supplement their incomes. We do not, therefore, have an army as such, but I do support this motion. We should not be causing pain to or hurting Palestinians any further by taking the side of the Israelis.
I call Deputy Pringle, who is sharing his time with Deputies Connolly and Joan Collins.
I am thankful for the opportunity to speak on this important topic. I welcome the Palestinian ambassador, Dr. Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid, to the House to listen to this debate.
I support this proposed legislation being brought forward by Sinn Féin, which would compel the ISIF to divest itself of its holdings in companies listed in the UN database of companies with business ties to illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories. The database of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, UNHCR, lists 112 companies operating in breach of international law in the occupied territories, in which Irish taxpayers are shareholders in nine such companies. We cannot continue supporting Israel’s apartheid. It is time we took a stronger stance on this issue.
The Nakba took place in Palestine 75 years ago yesterday, in which 750,000 Palestinians were forcibly expelled from their homes. The Nakba, however, did not end in 1948. It continues to affect more than 12 million Palestinians who remain stateless today as they fight to end the Israeli occupation. Things are only getting worse. Attacks by Israeli armed forces and settlers against Palestinians have increased dramatically in the past year. Since the start of 2023, Israeli settler-related violence reached an average of three incidents per day, compared with two incidents per day in 2022 and one incident per day in 2021, according to the UN.
This is the highest daily average of settler-related incidents affecting Palestinians since 2006. Last week, 33 Palestinians were killed after five days of intense fighting in the Gaza Strip. It is clear that the international community needs to step up. Ireland needs to do more and this Bill should show our absolute and unwavering support for the Palestinian people.
I am going to be frank, however. I am sceptical of Sinn Féin’s commitment to this issue. I appreciate that it has brought forward this Bill today and I hope that this is a reflection of their priorities when in government, but I am not so sure. Unfortunately, in this country we have a long history of parties doing one thing in opposition and the exact opposite when they get into government. Four years ago, Fianna Fáil was in full support of the occupied territories Bill. However since getting into government, the Bill has not progressed. I cannot count the number of times I have seen parties U-turn on issues that were once of importance to them and I will be watching very closely over the next few years to ensure that I am very clear on where they stand on issues of importance.
The situation in Palestine is extremely important to the people of Ireland and my constituents in Donegal, who I am here to represent. It is important that we are not afraid to hold all parties to account for their role in facilitating Israel’s apartheid.
As I have previously stated, I am in support of the Bill today. However I would also like to take this opportunity to urge the Government to progress Senator Frances Black’s occupied territories Bill, which has already passed through the Seanad and some stages in the Dáil. It can be done. The Minister of State fully supported it when he was on this side of the House, so what is different today?
Trade rules may apply to all EU member states. However, exceptions are granted where they can be justified on grounds of public morality, public or public security and the protection of the life of humans. It is telling that the Government is afraid of potentially breaching EU law, yet seem to care very little about the fact that Israel is in breach of international law every single day. It is time to stand with the people of Palestine.
I thank Deputy Brady for bringing forward this Bill. I have no hesitation in supporting it. I welcome the Palestinian ambassador. The Bill is extremely important. In a sense, it is symbolic but also builds on and gives meaning to words, rather than having the empty words the Government and other countries have used. It seeks to play restrictions on the NTMA and how it uses the assets of the ISIF, in particular regarding undertakings in companies that appear on the UN database of companies. The database was produced on 12 February 2020, over three years ago, on foot of an independent fact-finding mission established by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate the human rights implications of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. On that list we have investments in our name using our money in nine companies, which is completely unacceptable.
I am very conscious that yesterday was the 75th anniversary of the Nakba catastrophe and the violent evictions of Palestinians from their homes. In that time - it is important to say it slowly - more than 750,000 Palestinians were forcibly removed from their homes. Some 531 Palestinian villages were completely destroyed. I say that while being conscious of the international and national commentary. The UN Security Council, in its presidential statement on 20 February, reiterated that continuing Israeli settlement activities are dangerously impeding the viability of the two-state solution based on the 1967 lines.
The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs said recently that Ireland's position on Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory is crystal clear and that "The continued establishment and expansion of settlements is a violation of international law and is unacceptable." Referring to the UN Security Council meeting last December, he stated "Ireland ... led a joint press statement by a number of states demanding that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory" and so on. Yet, when six human rights organisations are declared terrorist organisations, a number of which are funded by taxpayers' money, we do nothing. We do absolutely nothing regarding the Amnesty report that clearly set out that Israel is operating an apartheid regime.
Let us make our words mean something and, at the very least, agree with this and not have what I would call a pregnancy motion, whereby we put something off for nine months and see what happens. At the very least, the Minister of State needs to tell us how many motions have been passed in the House by way of the pregnancy motion and never acted on.
First and foremost, I send my support and solidarity to the Palestinian people on the anniversary of the Nakba yesterday. This year marks the 75th anniversary of the start of the Nakba. There have been 75 years of injustice, brutality and murder and of a programme of ethnic cleansing carried out by the Israeli state against the Palestinian people. The Nakba is not an historic event; it is an ongoing atrocity that has seen over 9 million refugees, Palestinians in the occupied territories facing bombs and bullets every day and Palestinians in the Israeli state living under an apartheid regime. Just this year, 30 Palestinian children have been killed by the Israeli state as they enforce a regime that murders civilians, suppresses rights and democracy and enforces discrimination, segregation, desperation and poverty.
Gaza is an open-air prison of 2 million people and Israel is settling and annexing land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. It maintains this regime through its western-supported military and police and the total suppression of democracy for every Palestinian, whether living in the Israeli state, under the Palestinian Authority or are scattered across the world as refugees.
The horror and brutality of this needs to be opposed. In 2018, I supported Senator Frances Black's occupied territories Bill. It was progressed by both Houses and supported by Fianna Fáil and the Green Party, two of the parties currently in government, and has a massive amount of support throughout society. The Minister of State has asked us to kick the Bill down the road for another nine months. The Bill has been buried and left in limbo by the Government. It has ignored repeated calls for it to be brought back into the Dáil, hiding behind claims of conflict with EU and international law, despite numerous legal experts coming out to support its legality.
The reality is that the Government is too afraid to stand up to the United States of America and its efforts to preserve a military presence in the Middle East. It prioritises keeping the US and US companies in situ over our moral duty as a people who have faced colonialism, genocide and partition to stand up for the rights and lives of Palestinian people.
Israel is a nuclear-armed state that has broken international law by annexing territory, occupying land, enforcing apartheid, targeting and killing civilians and ongoing bombing in Palestine. Due to our history, neutrality and support for Palestine, Ireland needs to be at the forefront of that opposition. The Bill before Members is a fraction of what Senator Black's Bill attempted to do, but it is no less important. Irish people want nothing to do with this apartheid state. They do not want their taxpayer money going towards a state that deliberately kills civilians and suppresses democracy.
I support the Bill and thank Deputy Brady for introducing it. I ask the Government to withdraw its amendment. I acknowledge and welcome the presence of Dr. Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid, the Palestinian ambassador.
The Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and I have listened with interest to the contributions from Deputies on the Private Members' Bill put forward by Sinn Féin. I will try to respond to some of the issues raised. I also want to acknowledge the presence of the ambassador.
As Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill highlighted in her opening remarks that the Government understands the motivation behind the Bill. I acknowledge many of the contributions made during the debate. As might have been expected, the Bill has prompted a wide-ranging discussion on Israel and the illegal settlements in the occupied territories.
Despite this, the concern of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, is handling legislative proposals relating to the NTMA of which ISIF is part. The Bill specifically proposes that ISIF would not invest directly or indirectly in a list of companies named in a UN database produced by the UN Human Rights Council in 2020. The level of investment by ISIF is relatively small compared with the overall size of the fund nationally or globally. It is not obvious that a straightforward divestment by ISIF would carry the same message as expected arising from the Bill. ISIF has a proven track record as a responsible investor.
It has been highlighted that ISIF has already divested on a voluntary basis from investing in tobacco companies and in companies which manufacture nuclear armaments and, under legislation, from companies involved in the production of cluster munitions, anti-personnel mines and fossil fuels. This forms part of its sustainability and responsible investment strategy. The strategy builds on the ISIF's longstanding commitment as a responsible investor and a steward of public assets by protecting and enhancing both the long-term value of the fund and the reputation of the NTMA and how it delivers its mandate.
There is a strong case to be made for it being more appropriate for ISIF, as a responsible investor with international credibility, to continue to maintain small shareholdings. Doing this supports engagement with a view to encouraging companies to take their human rights applications seriously. As of now, as part of its wider sustainability and responsible investment strategy, including in relation to the issue of companies operating in the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, the ISIF pursues active ownership through its engagement manager, EOS at Federated Hermes. Within this, human rights is a key theme and Federated Hermes engages according to the UN guiding principles on business and human rights framework and the OECD guidelines for multinational enterprises.
It is important the Government's approach on this issue is understood. The Government is proposing a timed amendment of nine months to the Private Members' Bill for a number of reasons. The effect of this Bill will be that the NTMA would not be able to invest in any company listed on the database of companies operating in the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories and that the NTMA could not invest, directly or indirectly, in any company which is on the UN database. While the Minister for Finance understands the motivation behind the Bill, given that the Bill is based on a UN database which is not fit for this purpose, has not been updated since it was established in 2020 and does not have any clear basis for amendment going forward, and in light of the fact that there are no specific sanctions or remediation requirements for businesses appearing on the list, some time would have to be taken to explore a more legally sound basis for considering legislation in this area.
In some cases, it has been argued the report is too limited and does not cover all businesses that could be involved in business activities within the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. The issue of divestment for the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories presents challenges that had set it apart from previous approaches by the ISIF were legislated for in the Oireachtas, such as divestment from fossil fuels in the Fossil Fuel Divestment Act 2018, or disinvestment from companies engaged in tobacco or nuclear weapons. The other examples were generally readily identifiable. In the case of companies that trade with Israel and are active in the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, there is a much wider range of companies that may be involved across all sectors and states. As a result, there are particular problems with the Bill as drafted. It is not obvious that it would be possible to agree legislation which is based solely on a once-off UN database. There would need to be legal certainty as to whether this is possible or appropriate, or whether other legal approaches might be needed. No legal advice has yet been obtained, given that the Bill is now only coming up for consideration, but in the event there was consideration of working on the detail of the Bill, such advices would be required.
It is also understood that companies cannot be removed from the database, even if they were no longer invested in the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, and that no new companies which may have an investment in these territories have been added. Thus, if this legislation was to be enacted, it would still be possible for ISIF to be invested in companies engaged in activities within the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, while respecting the detail of the legislation. It is not obvious that the proposed legislation may even be appropriate or comprehensive enough to deal with the relevant issues raised by the publication of the Bill.
The proposed timed amendment allows the Government to consider a more comprehensive approach in determining whether there may be a more nuanced approach which could be adopted. Divestment may not be the immediate answer in seeking to persuade companies of their human rights obligations. The more responsible choice may be with persuasion and engagement as a first step. On this basis, there is a strong case for maintaining engagement in order to maintain influence on the human rights consciousness of the companies concerned. It has been noted that legislative and non-legislative solutions have successfully achieved similar outcomes. Time was taken to introduce appropriate legislation with respect to investment in fossil fuels and cluster munitions.
It is also important that there is a sound legal and informational basis for the State to take action in this area that it can stand over. These legislative changes are useful models, but further consideration is needed where there is consideration of investment across a wide range of companies not linked to any business-specific activity, as was the case with divestment from fossil fuels or munitions. To allow appropriate time to consider the implications and explore the possibility of such an approach, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, has received Government approval today for tabling a timed amendment for a period of nine months. The timed amendment allows for further consideration of the Bill, given that its drafting raises specific legal and practical questions. As drafted, it is not likely to achieve its intended purpose. It is appropriate to consider whether a combination of legislative and non-legislative approaches could be adopted which would achieve an appropriate human-rights based outcome. Bringing forward the timed amendment also allows the consideration of all potential legislative and non-legislative approaches.
The Government has also agreed to the Minister for Finance writing to the Chair of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence to seek a report on how this matter could be successfully progressed and to the CEO of the NTMA to encourage the NTMA board and senior management to accelerate the development and adoption of voluntary exclusionary lists, similar to those that exist in the cases of munitions and tobacco, that can be applied in conjunction with the proposed Bill.
I thank my colleague, Deputy Brady, for this Bill. I welcome the ambassador, H.E. Dr. Wahba Abdalmajid, to the Chamber. Deputy Brady has already spoken on the detail of the Bill and I will address its essence, in a week when the catastrophe, the Nakba, inflicted on the Palestinian people by the Israeli Government and its supporters is commemorated. This week is also the anniversary of the ratification of the Sykes-Picot agreement, which has affected the history of the Middle East and all who live there ever since. The conflicts, the displacements, the dispossession, the injustice, the inhumanity and the needless deaths continue right up to this day, as we consider this Bill. Today, I name in honour a four-year-old boy, Tamim Daoud, and his parents, Mohammed and Lina. Tamim died because of a panic attack caused by the Israeli bombing of his neighbourhood. It woke him from his sleep. According to his parents, his little heart could not take the noise, the vibration and the fear. The Israel Defense Forces, IDF, and the government that commands them, frightened this little boy to death. He is one of hundreds of children whose lives have been taken by the IDF. Even if we disregard every other atrocity, that alone is a reason Irish investment has no business doing business in the occupied territories. The ISIF has invested Irish taxpayers' money - the people's money - in nine companies operating within illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories. Given the ongoing occupation, the treatment of the Palestinian people and the murder of their children - eight in this latest round, as I understand it, and counting, knowing the IDF - the razing of schools just last week and the open-air imprisonment of a people, the use of Irish citizens' money in these companies is unethical and unacceptable. When one says something is unacceptable, one does not accept it. Given our history, no Irish company should profit from this illegal occupation, this dehumanisation of an entire people and this injustice, cruelty and destruction. The Palestinian people are very grateful for Ireland's support. It means so much to them. I ask the Minister of State to withdraw his amendment and give them hope, because when we dignify the people of Palestine and their cause, we dignify our ancestors and ourselves.
I too welcome the ambassador and I commend her on her work. I thank my colleague, Deputy Brady, for bringing this Bill before the Dáil. The UN Human Rights Council published a revealing database that names 112 businesses that are directly or indirectly embroiled in operations that infringe upon international law in these disputed Palestinian territories. The database reported in 2013 that various business activities, encompassing both Israeli and international companies, were sustaining illegal Israeli settlements. These illegal Israeli settlements, as we are all too aware, have capitalised on an onslaught of human rights violations against the Palestinian people.
Unlawful demolition of homes and infrastructure, annihilation of agricultural land, forced displacement and unlawful killings have sadly become an everyday reality for Palestinians. We must accept the fact that these settlements could not function without the complicit support of businesses and enterprises which provide the necessary infrastructure which sustains them. It could be argued that they are precariously treading on the line that separates legal operations from complicity in oppressive acts and human rights violations.
In May 2021, the Dáil unanimously passed a motion condemning Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem and its settlement activity. Successive Irish Governments have declared the Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories as illegal under international law. Therefore, it is beyond troubling and grossly hypocritical that the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund, ISIF, investments are linked to businesses complicit in these actions and associated human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territories.
Sinn Féin believes in justice, equality and the right of every individual to live in peace. We believe and support the fundamental human right to self-determination. It is time that our investments reflected our national values and I urge the Minister of State and the Government to compel ISIF to divest from these companies, to align its portfolio with the principles of justice and human rights and to stand on the right side of history. I ask the Minister of State to withdraw the amendment.
The sole motivation for bringing forward this important legislation is the full implementation of international law and holding those who breach international law to account. What I have heard tonight from the Government is a delay and when justice is delayed, justice is denied. The Palestinian people have already had 75 years of justice being denied and the Government is now saying, "What is another nine months?"
When I talk about international law being universally applied, could the Minister of State imagine any other scenario where a country illegally invaded another country, annexed illegally parts of that country and the international community said it would not impose any sanctions on Russia or do anything for nine months? There would be an outcry, and rightly so. Full implementation universally of international law is what is needed.
When I hear the Government defend the humanitarian credentials of the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, and ISIF, I question why are we here in the first instance debating the shareholdings. Government has made us shareholders or stakeholders in international crimes by having investments in these companies operating unlawfully in occupied Palestinian lands. There is no due diligence on human rights being carried out, as far as I can see, by ISIF.
When I hear the arguments against the UN Human Rights Council and the database on which this Bill is based, it is reminiscent of the same arguments that the occupier, Israel, uses to undermine this same database. The Minister of State is using the same arguments that Israel has used to undermine, delay and try to discredit this particular database.
This database has been four years - from 2016 up to 2020 - carrying out due diligence in terms of the meticulous work that they carried out. Initially, there were 307 companies on that database. After due process - thorough investigation - that list was whittled down to 112.
That database is not a one-off piece of work; it is a living database. The next screening is being carried out as we speak. It has been authorised by the UN where the removal of the same companies, that the Minister of State says there is no mechanism for the removal of, is being worked on. The Government's arguments do not stand up to any level of scrutiny whatsoever.
I see other countries, such as Norway, using this same database. The Norwegian Government pension fund divested in five companies that are on that database operating on settlements in occupied Palestinian land. The Norwegian asset management, Storebrand, divested of 23 companies, because of the concerns about human rights violations, the oppression, brutalisation and the illegal actions against the Palestinian people by Israel, using the same database that the Minister of State has sought to discredit and undermine completely, which, it has to be said, is shameful.
As I said, justice delayed is justice denied. The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, or his Government colleagues might tell me, but, more importantly, the Palestinian people, how many more villages have to be destroyed, how many more Palestinians have to be forcefully removed from their homes and how many more schools have to be destroyed before the Government stands up for international law and the rights of the Palestinian people. How many more schools and how many more Palestinians will be butchered over the next nine months while the Government contemplates whether we should stand up for international law or not?
The Government has an opportunity here to do the right thing. If the Minister of State has concerns about the legislation - there should be none - he should bring them forward, withdraw the amendment and allow the legislation go to committee. Let us have a look at it. Let us put in place what needs to be there. Absolutely, I would love to see more companies, because there are more companies complicit in the illegal settlements in the occupied territories. I would love to see more, but we have a database. We have a template to move forward. Let the Minister of State withdraw the amendment and let us stand up for international law universally, not cherry-pick which international law is important and which is not.
Clearly, the Government has decided that the rights of the Palestinian people are certainly not worth standing up for. It is shameful.
Hear, hear.
Amendment put.
In accordance with Standing Order 80(2), the division is deferred until the next weekly division time, which, I understand, is tomorrow.