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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 21 Sep 2023

Vol. 1042 No. 4

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Bus Services

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, for taking the time to be here. This is an ongoing issue. There is a greenway from Midleton to Youghal which is nearly finished. The railway used to go down there. This is about connectivity. I submitted a parliamentary question to the Minister for Transport asking if the National Transport Authority, NTA, or Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, would consider a park-and-ride model of transport to run from Youghal to the train station in Midleton, along the N25, for connectivity. It would service Youghal, Killeagh, Castlemartyr and go into Midleton. Unfortunately, the response I got from the NTA was that, building on the work developed as part of the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy 2040, the park-and-ride design office, PRDO, is carrying out a demand analysis to identify the zones on the main traffic corridors. It goes on to say which bus connects and so on. It states that, based on the work carried out to date, the PRDO is not currently considering a park-and-ride model of transport to run from Youghal to the train station in Midleton and that, instead, the connecting bus or connectivity by public transport to Cork city is best provided by bus and coach services that connect Youghal to Cork.

The buses run from Dungarvan. A bus ticket from Dungarvan to Cork is cheaper than the fare from Youghal to Cork. That is if people can get on the bus at all. It is madness. The problem here is that if five or six people get on the bus in Youghal, it is full and nobody can get on in Castlemartyr or Killeagh. This means children cannot get to school. More important, people have hospital appointments and so on. One family contacted me last week. They had to pay €100 for a taxi to go from Youghal to Cork University Hospital for an appointment.

The funny thing about it was that I have written to TII and the NTA. A report, the metropolitan transport strategy, was published just recently. It mentions connectivity from Cork to Youghal and beyond six times. Even though the greenway has not been opened yet, the strategy talks about connecting Cork city to Youghal by train, eventually going on to Waterford. It also mentions proper connectivity. The all-Ireland review was recently published by the Department of Transport and, as I said, connectivity was mentioned in it. Every time I ask about this, I am told it is not needed. There is talk of people's carbon footprint and so on. That stretch of the N25 is a dangerous road but it is the only way people in the area can travel. Castlemartyr has major tailbacks in both directions because there is a pinch point on the N25. Many more cars could be taken off that road if the NTA invested in one or two additional buses.

It does not make sense for connectivity that on the Cork-Waterford border, there is practically one bus, the Waterford bus, serving Cork city and the entire catchment area from Youghal to Killeagh and Castlemartyr, which drives past Midleton train station, goes on to Carrigtwohill and then on to the city. It is being borne out of frustration for so long. My office staff are getting very frustrated. I understand why the railway did not go there. Development charges have a lot to do with it, as does the lack of industry. It is to be hoped Youghal will pick up on the tourist side of it.

My issue is that it makes common sense to connect Cork with Waterford. It is mentioned six times in the new all-Ireland rail review report. I cannot understand why the bus routes cannot run from Youghal to Midleton. People could buy their tickets in Youghal to go to Cork, the bus would drop them in Midleton, they would go up on the train, do their business, come back down, get off the train, hop on the bus and go back through whatever village they want. Is there any way we can get a quick review of this matter?

I thank the Deputy for raising this important topic, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Ryan. I will clarify that the Minister for Transport has responsibility for policy and overall funding in relation to public transport but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services.

The statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services rests nationally with the National Transport Authority, NTA. The NTA works with the public transport operators that deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters. That said, I reassure the Deputy that the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable and realistic sustainable mobility options, and public transport plays a key role in the delivery of this goal. To support this objective, in budget 2023, the Department of Transport secured €563.55 million in funding for public service obligation, PSO, and Transport for Ireland, TFI, Local Link services, which is up from €538 million in 2022.

It is also important to note that while the majority of public transport in Ireland is indeed provided by the publicly subvented bus and rail services funded through the NTA’s public service obligation programme, the public transport system also includes a significant number of non-subvented bus services operated on a commercial basis by bus and coach businesses of varying size. Unfortunately, the Deputy's question on capacity issues on public transport between Youghal and Midleton train station in County Cork does not specify whether the bus services in question pertain to Bus Éireann’s PSO route 260 or their commercial Expressway route 40, so I will speak to both.

As the Deputy will be aware, as part of its commercial Expressway business, Bus Éireann operates up to 13 daily services from Youghal to Midleton on route 40. I understand Bus Éireann has advised that the average occupancy on its services from Youghal to Midleton this month has been 22 passengers on vehicles that have a maximum capacity of 53 passengers. In terms of reaching capacity, Bus Éireann has further advised that nine out of its 248 scheduled services from Youghal to Midleton this September have reached capacity. The company encourages customers to book online for the best available fares and to guarantee a seat on their preferred service. The Deputy will appreciate that Expressway, like all other commercial businesses, is responsible for managing its own resources in respect of its commercial services.

Bus Éireann also operates the route 260 Cork to Ardmore via Youghal PSO service, which provides eight weekday services between Youghal and Cork, with six of these serving Midleton. Under the terms of the contract between the NTA and Bus Éireann, there are specific requirements for Bus Éireann’s services along this route regarding routing, scheduling, fleet utilisation and fares. Any issues regarding capacity on the service is an operational matter for the NTA in conjunction with Bus Éireann. Any decisions regarding changes to timetabling and frequency of service on the route are determined by the NTA and subsequently implemented by Bus Éireann in conjunction with the authority.

Notwithstanding the above, I reassure the Deputy that the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens, including students, with reliable and realistic transport options. The roll-out of projects such as BusConnects, Connecting lreland, and new town services are among the improvements we are making to achieve our ambitious goals for the sector. I also reassure the Deputy that the Department of Transport, the NTA and our operators are working to ensure the optimised deployment of resources to match changing demand patterns. Where increased passenger demand was evident during the 2022-23 academic year, for example, on several Limerick city, Cork city and commuter and Dublin commuter services, the NTA is working with operators to improve capacity on these routes. With continued investment in public transport services, we can build a more efficient network that provides viable travel options for all, and the Government remains committed to this goal.

I thank the Minister of State for the response. I had a feeling that was what would come back but I wanted to raise this matter for the following reason. People are going on about the carbon footprint. For one thing, there is a carbon footprint in running 13 daily services from Youghal all the way to Cork city and all the way back. I understand many of these services do not run at peak time but the peak services are probably the most important for connectivity.

The express route is definitely a problem because that is the one that starts early in the morning and is always full because people are getting to school, to their appointments and to the city early. The point I am trying to make is if 13 daily services are in use, and every single one of them are passing Midleton and going another, let us say,13 miles further up the road to the city, would it not make sense to shorten those journeys and have that connectivity coming from Youghal, through Killeagh and Castlemartyr, pulling in the hinterland of the likes of Shanagarry and maybe as far as Ballycotton and so on? It would shorten that journey into the train station. That makes more sense and there would be more connectivity. In fairness, and I always give credit where credit is due, there will be major investment on the Midleton to Cork route. A double line will go in and the frequency will increase. It is an extremely busy rail line as it stands.

I thank the Minister of State for the answer. As I said, it is about how to make the best of the resources we have, when 13 daily services are being run to the city. Bus Éireann said that service has an average of 22 people, although I do not believe that to be honest. I often try to get the bus from Youghal to Midleton and I cannot get on it, even on a Saturday. However, I take the Minister of State's response on board. I will go back to the people who raised this issue. I will flag that I think resources could be used a lot more efficiently on this route. It does not make sense. The connection from Belfast to Derry has a park and ride in the middle of nowhere and it is jammers. It is just about resources.

Public Transport

I thank the Minister of State for being here to discuss this matter, which has gone on for years. It relates to Clongriffin DART station on its Baldoyle side and the Myrtle estate at The Coast. I will share an email with the Minister of State that I received on Monday. This does not just go back to this week. I visited the site in August 2018 and, since then at least, issues have constantly been raised by residents. The email reads:

Today Monday September 18 marks two weeks since the lift access in the stairwell from Myrtle to Baldoyle to Clongriffin DART station has been out of order. The developer, Richmond Homes, the owners and maintainers of the lift and stairs, have given residents a timeline of a further two to three weeks before the lift can be repaired. With the lift out of order, there is no access for people with mobility and sight issues, those with young children in push chairs or travelling by bike from both Myrtle and Clongriffin. This is the fourth time within this month alone that the lift has been out of service. Built in 2010, this temporary structure is made up of four flights of perforated metal stairs and a lift that for years has been in and out of service. Thirteen years on, the stairwell and lift have fallen into massive disrepair and when it has been working it is often filled with urine, faeces, drug paraphernalia and vomit. Badly lit at night, the stairwell has become a hub for antisocial behaviour and a hang-out spot for gangs of young adults and regular drug use, resulting in residents feeling unsafe to travel through, especially if female and alone. As I am sure you know, in June, Myrtle, the Coast Residents' Association launched a petition calling for safe, universal access to Clongriffin. To date, the petition has gathered over 2,600 signatures. The residents are encouraging public representatives to attend a peaceful meet-up at 6.30 p.m. on Monday, 25 September, inviting all public representatives.

It is signed by Samantha O'Flanagan, from Myrtle, the Coast Residents Association. I do not know if the Minister of State has been to Clongriffin DART station. The DART station was opened in 2010. It is one of the newest DART stations in the network and it has frequently had problems with antisocial behaviour. The glass on the facade is frequently broken. The ticket machines have been vandalised. There have been issues of quite serious antisocial behaviour on the train line beside the station. This stairwell has been a constant problem. The problem is that it is in private ownership and its managers are not doing their job.

I remember back in 2018, when I tweeted about the state of the stairwell, Mazars, which was in charge of it, got in contact with my office asking me to take down the tweet, because it felt it was unfair. Now, however, it is the responsibility of Richmond Homes, and the residents are not satisfied. They feel that Iarnród Éireann or the State agencies need to take ownership of the access. If you have a mobility issue, if you are vulnerable, or if you have any other reason, you will not gain access to this public transport link. It may feel like a small issue but if this is your access point to the DART network, it is not safe, it is not secure and residents in that area feel like they are being disrespected. Those who have mobility issues and access requirements are also being disrespected. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State’s answer.

I would like to acknowledge that Deputy Ó Ríordáin has raised this Topical Issue relating to lift access in Clongriffin. On behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, the matter raised is one in which the Minister has no direct function. However, planning plays an important role in enabling the alignment of housing delivery with infrastructure provision through the policy measures of the development plan and also by way of planning conditions attached to a grant of permission.

As Clongriffin DART station is located in the administrative area of Fingal County Council, which has experienced a population growth of 34,000 people since 2016, it is acknowledged that the provision of, and access to, sustainable modes of public transport in urban areas is an essential service for the residents. The Department of Transport is aware of the matter that has been raised and has confirmed to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage that the lift in question, despite its intended function to provide access to Clongriffin DART station, is not owned or maintained by Irish Rail. It is also understood from the Department of Transport that the lift in question is located on private property and is not in the ownership of any State authority.

The ongoing maintenance of infrastructure such as lifts within private developments is not a planning matter, and furthermore the maintenance of lifts and communal spaces within or related to multi-unit developments or other private developments is a matter for the relevant management company.

It can be confirmed that the matter of the lifts and proposals to replace them with more appropriate access to the station was addressed by conditions attached to a grant of planning permission issued by An Bord Pleanála in 2020. As this is a specific case in which the relevant planning authority and the board had involvement, under section 30 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, the Minister with responsibility for planning shall not exercise any power or control in relation to any particular case with which a planning authority or the board is or may be concerned, and is precluded from commenting.

It is understood that this matter has been raised directly by residents with Fingal County Council and the relevant management company. The council have confirmed that they are currently engaged with the relevant parties concerned to bring about a permanent solution to this issue, as a matter of priority.

I appreciate that there are limits to what the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, can do in this regard, but he does have the soft power to discuss this issue with Irish Rail. The Minister of State can appreciate that residents are completely exasperated and have no trust in any private provider that is providing what is essentially public access. We have a situation where a private entity is in charge of public access to the public transport system. It is not working. We are not just talking about a period of weeks here, but a period of years. The lifts are consistently out of order. Anti-social behaviour is persisting on the stairwell. It is not particularly well-lit. We have received communication from a person who has a visual impairment who says he finds it particularly difficult to negotiate the stairwell. Something has to give.

I might suggest to the Minister of State that perhaps the Minister with responsibility for local government would make contact directly with Irish Rail and encourage it to make contact with the Richmond Homes entity, to potentially acquire the section of the site that would enable Iarnród Éireann to maintain and manage that stairwell. If the Minister of State were to visit it, he would absolutely agree with me that what is happening is not sustainable. When you come to a point when you have been campaigning for something for five years, you come to the conclusion that those who are overseeing it just do not really care. We need to find somebody who does care to take it over because there are children, wheelchair users, people with mobility issues, elderly people and people who feel vulnerable and afraid who are not utilising that stairwell. Therefore, their access to the public transport network is being curtailed and nobody is a winner in that scenario. I therefore ask the Minister of State to impress on his colleague the need to make representations to Irish Rail so that it would, in turn, make representations to Richmond Homes to acquire the land the stairwell is on in order that it can be maintained in a much more appropriate fashion.

I will absolutely convey Deputy Ó Ríordáin’s concerns and those of his constituents in the community that he represents to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and indeed to the Minister for Transport. I think the Deputy is quite right and justified and he has presented a very reasonable case as to why this problem has to be rectified. I have read some of the local media reportage of it. It is far from satisfactory. I do think there are many ways in which this can be resolved. The Deputy has raised the issue here. He has mentioned that the Minister has soft power, but by virtue of the fact that the Deputy has raised the issue here, he has elevated it. That will also give an added impetus to have it resolved.

School Transport

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, for being here today, but I do wish the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, was present, because this is a huge issue. It has been a big issue for a number of weeks now. We are not seeing the kind of response that is needed on this issue from the Department of Education, the office of the Minister or, indeed, Bus Éireann.

I am raising this issue on behalf of hundreds of parents and students in Wicklow who are still not able to get the school bus transport scheme. The buses are still not showing up for them. On Friday, 25 August, hundreds received an email from Bus Éireann saying that the school bus that was due to pick up their children on the first day of school, which was the following Monday, was not going to be showing up. No reason was given for this and there was no indication of when it would be resolved. Indeed, very little communication has happened since then.

There has been some effort. The inspector in Wicklow has been doing a lot of work trying to arrange alternatives and to help out. Some routes have been reinstated, but not all routes. There are still many routes that are not operational. Indeed, some routes that were operational seem to have disappeared weeks into the school year. The impact this is having on constituents is absolutely enormous and cannot be overstated. I have heard of parents who have had to take unpaid parental leave to drive their children to school. Parents have taken their annual leave and have used up their holiday time to do it. Parents have had to give up their jobs. One parent has had to hand in her notice because she is now needed to drive her child to school, when she has already paid for the school bus and she had been guaranteed that place would be available for her.

I have been contacted by families who have had to move their children to Bray so that they are actually closer to the school and do not need transport. One ten-year old girl was left on the side of the road when her bus did not show up. Despite it being one of the buses that did start off the year, it suddenly disappeared within a couple of weeks. That ten-year old girl was left at the side of the road with no idea about how to get home or how to get to school. That is completely unacceptable. There are huge health and safety issues associated with this. The communication that the parents have received from Bus Éireann has been really minimal. As a Deputy, I have been trying to contact Bus Éireann and the Minister's office and I am not getting responses on it either, which is really frustrating and very unfair to all those parents who want some clarity on when their child's bus service will be reinstated. I hope that in his response, the Minister of State will be able to fill us all in on exactly what is happening.

One key concern as well is that this is also impacting children with special needs. There are a number of special schools in the constituency and their buses were also not showing up. Ironically, one parent who is a teacher, cannot get transport for his child who has additional needs to get him to school and that teacher may now have to give up their job to drive their child to a special school. It just makes absolutely no sense.

This happens every year. However, this year it is particularly bad. Bus Éireann does not seem to have been prepared for it. Proactive measures do not seem to have been put in place to mitigate this. It is not just an issue in Wicklow. From talking to Deputy Catherine Murphy, I know it is an issue in her constituency in County Kildare. It is also an issue in Cork South-West and even in Dublin Central there is an issue with special needs transport for constituents of my colleague, Deputy Gannon. This is a major issue. I hope the Minister of State has an update that will allay all those parents' fears and will give them the information they need on this.

I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. Before I address the specific issues raised, I would like to provide an outline of the extent of the school transport scheme. The scheme is a significant operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education. In the 2022-23 school year, more than 149,000 children, including more than 18,000 children with special educational needs, SEN, were transported on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country. In addition, school transport scheme services were provided for more than 5,400 children who have arrived to Ireland from Ukraine.

The total cost of the scheme in 2022 was €338.9 million. The scheme is an important service for families and children. The purpose of the Department's school transport scheme is, having regard to available resources, to support the transport to and from school of children who reside remote from their nearest school. There has been an overall increase in both applications and tickets issued for the 2023-24 school year in comparison to the 2023-23 school year. Already more than 133,000 tickets have issued for the 2023-24 school year, which is an increase of 12% when compared with the start of the previous school year. The number of tickets issued so far has already exceeded the total number of tickets issued in the 2022-23 school year.

With regard to SEN transport services, to date, more than 4,200 new applications have been received for SEN transport for the 2023-24 school year, with some 1,400 of these having been received since July alone. This compares to some 3,670 new applications received at this time last year. To date, transport has been provided for more than 3,000 new applicants for the 2023-24 school year, with transport being provided for more than 19,000 pupils in the current school year. The Department continues to receive applications all year round.

As the Deputy will be aware, a review of the school transport scheme is nearing completion. The review is being conducted with a view to examining the current scheme, its broader effectiveness and sustainability, and to ensure that it serves students and their families adequately. The final report of the review will include recommendations on the future operation of the Department's school transport scheme. Once approved by the Government, it is planned that the review will be published.

On the topic raised by the Deputy, Bus Éireann has confirmed that no services were cancelled; in fact, in this case services were secured and tickets issued in good faith only for the routes to be handed back at the last minute. Bus Éireann has advised of significant shortages of drivers in the labour market overall and competing demands for drivers to deliver additional public transport initiatives such as Connecting Ireland, Bus Connects and Local Link services. Bus Éireann is continuing to prioritise sourcing vehicles and drivers. However, it has confirmed that, as of 21 September, a number of routes remain without a service. This equates to less than 1.5% of pupils, or less than 2% of vehicles, with services being provided for more than 98% of pupils on a daily basis.

With regard to the provision of services for children with special educational needs, as of 21 September, Bus Éireann confirmed that the number affected is estimated at approximately 1.3% of pupils. Some services are expected to resume as soon as an escort has been sourced and we are working with schools to ensure the resources are put in place.

With all due respect to the Minister of State, my question was related to bus cancellations in Wicklow and he did not mention Wicklow once in this reply. Could he please tell me what I will tell parents in Wicklow who do not have a seat on a school bus for their children tomorrow and next week? While he can play with words and say that they the routes were not cancelled but were handed back, the end result for parents is exactly the same. Parents are giving up jobs and moving their children to different towns. It is absolutely disgraceful. Parents paid for their tickets early in the year. They were guaranteed seats in May but the bus has not shown up for them.

I really wish the Minister of State had not spent half his time talking about how great the school bus transport system is; it is clearly not fit for purpose. While he can say that only 1.5% of pupils are being impacted, that amounts to 2,000 pupils. Some 1.5% of 133,000 is a lot of pupils and, therefore, 2,000 families are being impacted by the lack of a bus service. The fact that we are not getting any additional information from the Minister of State is just not acceptable.

With regard to the exceptional no-service interim grant of €5 a day, first, it is paid retrospectively, and some parents do not have the money to cover that upfront. Second, it is a very small amount and if people are trying to get from one end of County Wicklow to the other, that will not get them very far. Third, that is all well and good if there is alternative public transport in your area. There is not. Public transport is not available for the majority of my constituents. Public transport provision in Wicklow is absolutely disgraceful. There is not a sufficient amount of it, and parents do not have all these different options available to them. It is up to parents now or their families or friends to transport their children to school. It is not acceptable. It is not the service that they were promised or that they paid for, and it is certainly not the service that the Minister for Education continually refers to when she talks about the great public transport service that is there for children.

Before I ask the Minister of State to come back in, I have in the past while seen that Ministers come in with scripts prepared for them by somebody else or by a different Department. We are very grateful to the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, for being here to take this matter, but it is completely unacceptable for any Department to provide a Minister, who is good enough to be here to deal with the issue, with a script that does not address the issue. It is not fair to the Minister of State and it is most certainly not fair to the Deputy who tabled this issue in the proper fashion. I will revert myself tomorrow to the Department of Education on this particular matter. I ask the Minister of State to conclude.

Could I say something?

No, we cannot have a debate on it.

I was just saying I will make myself available for a Topical Issue next week so the Minister can come in and address it. I know parents are really worried about it, and I will make sure I can get in for that, if it is possible.

I concur wholeheartedly with what you have said, a Cheann Comhairle, in this regard. The criticism you have raised about there being no mention of Wicklow is valid. Equally, I am grappling with what the Deputy articulated in my constituency in Limerick.

What is being experienced in County Wicklow is the same in Limerick. We are trying to work through that. The Deputy did not mention it but the reply prepared for me mentions the issue of the shortage of drivers. It has been raised by everybody around this House and I am happy to raise the fact that when a person reaches 70 they are not allowed to drive for Bus Éireann. It is crazy. I have never heard Bus Éireann offer an explanation for it to anybody. There can be the farcical situation in which students are transported to and from school in a bus which has to be driven by a man or woman aged under 70 but in the middle of the day, they could take a tour to the Dáil and the Houses of the Oireachtas in a bus driven by a man or woman who could be 85. It does not make sense. Bus Éireann, which is charged with running the scheme, needs to take a long hard look at that. I will convey to the Minister for Education the sentiments expressed by the Deputy.

Local Authorities

The fourth item I have selected comes from Deputy Andrews. He wishes to discuss the impact of the ongoing industrial action at Dublin City Council. Is this about them not taking telephone calls?

That is it exactly.

There are a lot more than Dublin City Council involved.

I was just going to say that. It is a nationwide issue. I am sure the Minister of State is aware that Fórsa members in local authorities across the State are in the middle of industrial action. As a public representative, I have seen first hand over the years the brilliant work the estate managers and area officers do for and across communities in my constituency. I know the pressure they are under. For instance, when estate managers are moved or move themselves or go off sick, there is no replacement for them. They are under pressure on the front line. They deal with residents in local authority housing across the city in public and private housing. Fórsa estimates that there has been a loss of 10,000 jobs from this sector over a number of years. That is how under-resourced local government is, including Dublin City Council and, as the Ceann Comhairle said, across the State. The issue at the core of this dispute is simple, it is how the management of local authorities has refused to engage on this and have allowed this to go on. It is beyond me. This should have been addressed a long time ago. During the years of the harsh austerity measures, these workers stepped up and took on increased responsibilities and duties. Workers are seeking that the increased duties they have accepted be formally recognised. A job evaluation scheme is a practice already common across Europe and in the North of Ireland. The health and higher education sectors in the South have already brought in this scheme. It is a process of evaluating each post, the responsibilities of the post and the worth of the post. We have seen the success of this scheme elsewhere; I cannot understand why local government management is refusing to implement the scheme. We must ensure that workers are given a fair and transparent process to evaluate their roles and ensure proper grading.

It should be made clear that this dispute is a result of the Local Government Management Agency refusing to enter negotiations with Fórsa, as was recommended by the WRC in January. We need to see meaningful engagement from the local management agency with the union. The workers have overwhelmingly voted for industrial action up to and including strike action. This is having a harsh impact on vulnerable members of our community. The Government cannot take a spectator's role in this dispute between the workers and local government management. Will the Minister and the Government intervene to bring about a fair solution that shows these workers are valued and respected?

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I will take this matter on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien. To begin, I would like to clarify that under section 159 of the Local Government Act 2001, each chief executive of a local authority is responsible for the staffing and organisational arrangements necessary for carrying out the functions of the local authority. Each local authority is a separate employer and the Local Government Management Agency represents the local government sector’s management in discussions with unions at a sector level. As the Deputy will be aware, it is the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform who is responsible for setting public pay policy and leading pay negotiations on behalf of Government. Fórsa submitted a claim for the introduction of a job evaluation scheme in the local government sector. Talks in respect of this claim concluded without resolution at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. It was open thereafter for Fórsa to utilise the provisions of the public service pay agreement and-or the State’s industrial relations processes. Fórsa has instead escalated immediately to industrial action, which is a matter of concern. Under the current public service agreement, Building Momentum, parties are required to abide by its terms, including maintaining industrial peace and using the agreed mechanisms for escalation of any disagreements. The Minister is keenly aware of the impact that this industrial action is having not only in Dublin City Council but in all local authorities. The Fórsa members involved in the industrial action in the local government sector provide important services for the public, to which some disruption can be expected in the time ahead. Government has engaged with staff representative associations collectively since the early days of social partnership to reach a decision on multi-annual pay agreements for public servants. Building Momentum runs to the end of 2023 and provides a 9.5% pay increase over three years for most public servants, increasing to 12.5% for lower-paid staff. Any new claims outside of the terms of the current agreement can be raised by the unions in future agreement negotiations, discussions on which are expected to commence shortly and will be led by the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform.

I agree with Deputy Andrews in relation to the concerns he raised about vulnerable people. I took it upon myself yesterday to contact the general secretary of Fórsa in relation to the action taken by Fórsa members in not dealing with councillors, Deputies, Senators or Ministers. We are all public representatives and we contact local authorities on behalf of vulnerable people. The Deputy, the Ceann Comhairle, I and everybody in this House will go home tonight, put the key in our front doors, have something to eat, watch television and go to bed. When I contact Limerick City Council or Limerick County Council, I contact them on behalf of vulnerable people, homeless people, people in desperate need and in dire straits. I feel strongly about the action or decision taken by Fórsa members not to deal with public representatives. It does not matter to me if somebody does not want to speak to me but it matters to the vulnerable person who contacted me and needs my help, or Deputy Andrews's help or representation or mine to achieve whatever they need from their local authority. To Fórsa and the people who have taken the decision not to engage with public representatives, I say it is not hurting public representatives, it is hurting the vulnerable people we seek to impact. I ask them to reconsider.

I agree that this affects all of us in the House. It is an important issue because, like Deputy Collins said, vulnerable people contact us. The reality is that management seems to be sitting on its hands and is content to allow this dispute to escalate. Staff levels are depleted - estate managers who work on the front line are not being replaced for months. That is the case in my constituency. The people to suffer are the residents in local authority housing and flat complexes in particular. It is the residents who are being made to suffer. The reality is that management appears to be sitting on its hands. It does not want a resolution to this particular dispute. Dublin City Council has also overseen some of the worst neglect I have ever witnessed. The conditions in which some of the tenants are living in local authority housing is appalling. The conditions are not acceptable and the neglect is ongoing. I have raised the issue in the House on numerous occasions of the shocking conditions in which residents are living and the neglect people in the south and north inner city are facing.

There is dampness in flats, raw sewage, gas and other leaks, electrical faults and rat infestations. The list goes on. As the Minister of State pointed out, it is neither he nor I who will be affected. Rather, it is the residents, who are facing more neglect. Management needs to be proactive on this matter, as does the Government. The Government cannot be seen as a bystander on this issue, leaving vulnerable city council tenants to face the current situation alone.

I thank the Deputy. We are all on the same page. There is a claim and a dispute. The two parties to the dispute need to resolve the matter. There are established State mechanisms to resolve disputes and, to their credit, they have worked and kept industrial peace for many years.

A very successful pay agreement, namely, Building Momentum, is coming to a conclusion. As I stated, talks will soon get under way, if they are not under way already, to provide for a successor agreement. There is no reason both parties to the dispute cannot sit down and thrash this out. It has been done in the past and I am sure in this case it will happen in time. I would prefer it to happen sooner rather than later to avoid an impact on vulnerable people who turn to the likes of the Deputy and me and our colleagues, as public representatives, for help and assistance. We are finding the door shut in our faces while trying to help people.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 8.02 p.m. go dtí 2 p.m., Dé Máirt, an 26 Meán Fómhair 2023.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.02 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 26 September 2023.
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