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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023

Vol. 1043 No. 2

Childcare Fees: Motion [Private Members]

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

notes that:

- childcare fees are unaffordable for many families and this is made worse by the cost-of-living crisis, which has families' finances on the brink as they are hit by a barrage of day-to-day costs;

- these prices mean many parents, especially mothers, feel forced to give up work or cut their hours, and this is exacerbating gender inequality;

- many workers in the childcare sector receive low pay, despite being highly qualified, resulting in them feeling forced out of the industry as it isn't a sustainable career path and, in turn, this means that more providers struggle to keep their doors open, adding to further problems for parents trying to secure a place for their child; and

- following sustained pressure and proposals from Sinn Féin and others, the Government was forced to tackle sustainability for services and reduce fees for parents, however their plans failed to go far enough; and

calls on the Government to:

- cut childcare fees for families by two thirds from 2022 levels, to make them affordable for parents by further increasing public investment; and

- allocate additional funding to provide fair pay for professionals working in the childcare sector.

I am taking just five minutes and then my colleagues will be joining me. I am delighted to get the opportunity to raise this issue on the early years childcare sector. As we know, we are in a cost-of-living crisis. In particular coming into the winter months, many people are going to be facing increased fuel and energy costs. Childcare is a cost that is a burden on families. We also know that it particularly affects women and their ability to participate fully in the workforce or return to work or education. We also know that any reports that are done on poverty and child poverty point to access to affordable childcare as one of the key factors in coming out of poverty. The level of fees people pay are very important. In advance of the budget we want to highlight the issue and call on the Minister and the Government to seriously address the fees issue. We are asking tonight for the support of all Deputies, including Government Deputies, for the motion.

I also want to speak about some of the other issues in relation to this sector. Fees for childcare could be anywhere in the region of €800 to €1,300 per child per month, which is colossal. There are also two other very important parts to this sector. The first is that those who work in the sector are very well qualified, often to degree level, yet as we know the wages do not often reflect the very valuable work they do. In fairness, I acknowledge that there have been some moves and I believe pay talks are currently ongoing. I hope they will be successful. It is important to highlight the issue.

Something that was brought to my attention today is that a group is advertising for people to work in childcare abroad. A group from Spain is coming over on 10 October. We are training people here to a high level and yet there is a possibility of them leaving to go to another sector for better pay and conditions. We are at a crucial moment in this sector because right now we have the providers and the workers unlike in some other sectors where funding is available but perhaps staffing is an issue. I note the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, is in the Chamber as well. The disability sector, for example, is crying out for staff. We do not want the same thing to happen in the early years childcare setting. We have the staff here now so it is important that we look at the workers, wage increases and at the providers.

We have had this debate on numerous occasions in this Chamber and in other forums as well. I acknowledge that some people are doing okay in terms of the core funding. In fairness, I said it around the time of the budget last year; that there were some positive moves. However, a cohort of providers are struggling. We see that with some of the smaller providers and the more sessional services that perhaps offer the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme only, especially in rural areas, and which are struggling with the administrative burden. That is something we have spoken about previously. Nobody has an issue with regulation, paperwork and with the administration that obviously needs to be done, but there has not been a huge amount of additional financial support to help providers in that situation. Many providers make the point that one size does not fit all. That is a fair statement to make for some of them. We need to look at that.

I have always been an advocate for examining the three sectors together: the issues that affect providers, the issues that affect workers in the sector, and, of course, the fees, which is the primary focus of the motion because paying fees is becoming very difficult for people.

We are constantly hearing stories from people who have put off having a second child or are planning for a child to be in school before having a second, and other issues I want to briefly touch on. On the availability of places, we have reports from people saying that they feel that as soon as they find out they are pregnant, they have to start planning for a place for the early years. The three issues I mentioned are very much interlinked and connected. If we address the staffing issues and issues affecting providers, that will help in the accessibility to places. The primary focus of the motion is childcare fees.

I thank my colleague, Teachta Kathleen Funchion, for bringing forward the motion and all of the work she has done and engagement she does on a daily basis with providers and early childhood educators. We all know it is an essential service, but like many essential services in the State it has suffered from significant neglect by successive Governments. It has been more or less left to the private sector to deliver the service. This has resulted in many areas lacking a functioning childcare services to meet the needs of the population. It is especially true in areas that have a large young population and rural areas. In my constituency, we have a large young population and a significant proportion of rural areas. This means the childcare network across north County Dublin is under strain, where it exists. In some areas, it does not exist at all. The first issue that affects parents is a lack of available childcare.

Where a family is lucky enough to secure childcare, the second issue, namely cost, kicks in. The fees are still too high and are pushing many families to the brink. The cost often forces parents to make life-altering decisions to move home where they can to be closer to relatives, change jobs, work part time, work more unsocial shifts to be free during the working day, refuse promotion opportunities, leave the workforce and, as we see with many young people now, decide not have kids altogether. That is really not where we want to be.

In most cases, it is women who are directly affected when childcare becomes an issue. However, indirect effects are felt throughout the family as a whole. There are partners who have to work excessively to provide, parents who work so hard that they do not see their kids or partner, grandparents who do not get to experience retirement and families who have to go without just so that they can pay childcare fees. The stress of this can put pressure on family relationships and dynamics. Very few areas of life are not impacted by this. For this reason, parents want affordable, local and high quality childcare, and they want it now. They were promised that fees would decrease by 25% in budget 2024, and the Government must keep its word. The reality is that the 25% decrease in fees in budget 2023, while welcome, only slightly eased the financial burden on parents, given that many families continue to pay sky-high childcare fees and precious few saw a reduction of 25%.

Then there are the workers in the service who must remain at the front of our minds during any of these debates. Low pay drives highly qualified childcare staff out of their careers of choice, which we have seen happen. This has become especially acute since Covid. The workers in our early years services deserve decent pay. I am very concerned that the Government has taken a hands-off approach in the childcare pay talks. They need to recommence as a matter of urgency. The Minister has to ensure that the staff in the sector receive wage increases through sustained Government investment.

I have a perfect example of the impact of high childcare costs and the threatened closure of services. I received an email yesterday and spoke to the mam in question. She lives in Lusk. If she cannot access affordable childcare, she says:

I will not be able to afford to continue to send my child and there is literally no space in any other local crèche or in any other childcare provider for a place in ECCE. My child will be completely pulled from his routine, with his early education and development massively impacted. I will be forced to give up work because I will not have any childcare and we will end up in massive financial debt. We have a large mortgage.

This is the reality of what will happen to families if this matter is not resolved. She says, "Have you any answers? Can you tell me what is being done?".

Parents are very clear about what they need. They need access to affordable quality childcare and they want that delivered by well-paid professionals. My experience is one of the transformative impact of access to affordable childcare. At the age of 21, I would not have been able to go back to college were I not able to access affordable childcare. I certainly would not have been able to continue to work. I would have been forced into social welfare. I would not have had those options. Being able to access education was the bedrock on which we were able to build our small family. It was absolutely essential. For those parents who do not have it, the stress it creates is unimaginable.

We do not need any more shoulder shrugging. We need the Minister to roll up his sleeves and become proactive with childcare workers in the wage talks. He needs to make sure that the Minister for Finance hears that funding must be made available and that results are how the Government will be judged.

I would like to acknowledge and thank Deputy Funchion for bringing forward the motion, which is important. Like everybody in the House, I continuously have parents ringing my office looking for advice, support and help to find a place in childcare in their local community. Parents are desperate to find childcare. Most have conceded that affordable childcare in Dublin is impossible to find.

The sky-high childcare fees and lack of places means that a whole section of society is being locked out of employment. At a time the Government is meant to be working for increased general equality, in reality what we are seeing is inequality increasing as more mothers are forced to stay at home. They are being denied the opportunity to return to a profession or education. This is a result of the Government's continued failure to deliver affordable childcare.

We are witnessing a substantial cohort of workers being locked out of the workplace. There is no doubt that this is causing severe damage to our economy and society. The hands-off approach of the Government has failed and, as a result, workers and their families are being left to pay the price. We are fortunate that in Dublin Bay South there are some brilliant community childcare facilities such as Ringsend and Irishtown Community Centre and St. Andrew's Resource Centre. I speak to the services regularly and they are demoralised by the amount of paperwork, box ticking and inspections that are taking place. The amount of work they have to put in does not ensure that children are being cared for. Childcare facilities do amazing work and are the heart of the community. They are a core element of building community and provide a valuable resource.

I thank my colleague, Deputy Funchion, for bringing this urgent issue before the House. Ordinary workers and families who are already struggling to make ends meet in this cost-of-living crisis are being further battered by increasing and unaffordable childcare costs. Families are already reeling from the effects of multiple mortgage hikes and ever-increasing food and energy bills. Let us not forget the Government's recent increase in petrol and diesel prices.

Childcare costs are as much as rent or mortgage payments. Families simply cannot afford them. A lot of parents, mainly women, are either forced to leave the workforce or cannot contemplate joining it. They then end up rejecting career opportunities because they cannot afford the cost of childcare. Deputy O'Reilly mentioned that to the Minister.

The Government made a promise in budget 2024 that fees would be reduced by 25%. It must stick to that promise. All childcare providers, public and private, must be supported to remain viable. In my constituency, Kildare South, I am aware of many childcare facilities that will be forced to close if the Minister does not take action.

The childcare workforce has been diminished due to poor pay and conditions. This has been very apparent in Kildare South, where many childcare facilities cannot get the workers needed to staff their services. Sinn Féin's detailed and fully costed plan would see childcare fees cut by two thirds, giving families much needed breathing space while also making a huge investment in our children's future and allowing parents peace of mind regarding their children's care.

I urge all Deputies in this House to support Sinn Féin’s motion.

My wife recently received a call from a childcare provider. We had put our son's name down on a waiting list for a childcare place around the time he was born. The problem is he is four tomorrow. That is the situation people are looking at. They could be waiting three or four years to get a call. Obviously it is not the same in every instance but the fact is that if people move to Cork tomorrow morning looking for a full-time childcare place, they would nearly be laughed out of it. The places are simply not there. Even part-time places are extremely difficult to come by and people could wait a very long time. That is before even getting to the cost, which is crippling families. It has been said so many times but it is true. It is a second mortgage or more than a mortgage for so many.

I have raised the next issue previously with the Minister and, in fairness, he has heard me out. What we are looking for is direct involvement from the Department. We have a particular problem in Cork regarding capacity. A number of providers have closed or face a change of ownership or potential closure. This is on top of the lack of places. I encourage the Minister and the Department to get directly involved in that. There are a couple of things this could involve. First, where there is a change of undertaking, I hope that Tusla will be able to facilitate the processing of that in the most expedient way possible and with the existing staff. I am also minded to mention the Before 5 centre, which is due to reopen.

I am sure the model we have is not where the Minister would like to start from but where we are starting from is what we have to deal with but I would not like to be in a situation where 15 years down the road, we are still relying heavily on subsidising the private model. We need a public system of childcare. It is vital that the State increases its footprint in this area. There is scope to do that in the context of Cork right now. There are public bodies that can help lead this. We need to look at this across the board to address the issues of supply and being able to plan. We need to be able to plan for demographic growth and where additional childcare will be needed. Ultimately, allowing the market to dictate it will not succeed.

What is also needed is sustainability. For far too long, people working in this sector have been treated poorly and have been working for poor wages. It is crucial that we get that right. Ultimately, this is a public good. It is not an optional extra for so many people. It is the lack of access to childcare and affordable childcare that leads to people leaving the workforce and being unable to return to it. It is a public good and it is high time that we treat it as that and invest in it accordingly.

The reality is that childcare fees are completely unaffordable for many working families. Many people feel that they have been hung out to dry, despite repeated promises that the Government will make childcare affordable. It is almost viewed as a luxury spend and is not really seen as an important issue for families, particularly women to enable them to get back to work.

I have received many emails from people in my constituency who are paying crazy amounts, with some telling me that they are going to have to give up their jobs because it is costing them to go to work. As we all know, this has a knock-on effect, particularly on women who want to participate in the workforce or those who want to return to education. We know now that many people are putting their lives on hold because of it.

The Government is on record as saying that the cost of childcare will decrease by 25% in the budget. I will welcome this if it happens but with the cost-of-living crisis and fees already being sky high, it may be little relief to many families. The Department needs to act and deliver a national fee structure with a clear plan on how it is going to seriously reduce this burden on people.

I find it concerning that the Government has taken a back seat in dealing with the talks on childcare workers' pay. It is a sector that already feels undervalued by Government. If a Sinn Féin Minister was sitting where the Minister is tonight, he or she would cut fees by two thirds based on 2022 levels. We would introduce legislation to ensure fees never reach these crazy prices again. I know the Minister is well-intentioned but fiddling around at the edges rather than tackling the core of this crisis is not going to make the burden currently faced by families any less of a heavy one to carry.

I move amendment No. 2:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"welcomes:

— the extensive commitments by the Government to address long standing challenges in the early learning and childcare sector;

— the increase to over €1 billion per annum in State funding for the sector this year, reaching the investment target set in 2018, five years ahead of schedule; and

— the significant prioritisation by the Government of measures designed to:

— substantially reduce out of pocket costs of early learning and childcare for families;

— increase the pay and improve the conditions of early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners;

— place early learning and childcare providers on a solid, sustainable footing; and

— recognise and bolster the vital public good contributed by the sector;

acknowledges and welcomes the major achievements of the new funding model Together for Better, which brings together three major programmes, the National Childcare Scheme (NCS), the Early Childhood Care and Education (ECCE) programme, including the Access and Inclusion Model (AIM), and the Core Funding scheme, in particular:

— the roll-out and on-going enhancements to the NCS, which is providing subsidies, both targeted and universal, to record numbers of children this year, with €121 million in additional funding secured in Budget 2023, that is substantially reducing out of pocket costs of early learning and childcare to families by 25 per cent on average;

— the roll-out of the ECCE programme, which enjoys uptake rates in excess of 95 per cent, has removed barriers to accessing pre-school education, with data from Growing Up in Ireland showing that more than 60 per cent of low-income families would not have been able to send their child to pre-school without this programme, as well as work underway to enhance this programme, with an evaluation now underway as a precursor to putting the ECCE programme on a statutory footing;

— the roll-out of the award-winning AIM, that is supporting more than 6,000 children with a disability to access the ECCE programme each year, and the commitment to enhance and expand AIM beyond the ECCE programme; and

— the Core Funding Scheme, with an allocation of €259 million in its first year and €287 million in year 2, that supports:

— the historic Employment Regulation Orders for the Early Years' Services Sector, which came into effect in September 2022 and provides minimum hourly rates of pay for early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners, increasing the wages of an estimated 73 per cent of those working in the sector, with further increases to the minimum hourly rates of pay currently being considered by the Joint Labour Committee, as well as an updated Employment Regulation Order to remove the three-year experience rule to attract the graduate premium, which is being supported through Core Funding;

— the introduction of a new fee management system which means no increase in fees since September 2021, which, in tandem with developments to the NCS, is delivering enormous benefits to families;

— the introduction of a requirement of services to offer the NCS to all eligible families, which has led to a 15 per cent increase in the number of services offering the NCS, thus substantially widening access to this State support;

— a significant growth in capacity for cohorts and in areas where there is undersupply, allowing greater access for children and their families, with additional funding in year 2 for a further 3 per cent increase in capacity; and

— the introduction of increased funding for all services this year, along with targeted increases for small, sessional services at a cost of €7.2 million;

— the latest data from Tusla's register of Early Years Services and register of School-Aged Services that shows:

— closures of early learning and childcare services nationally is at a five-year low; and

— the overall number of early learning and care and standalone school-age childcare services is now increasing; and

— the wider reform agenda underway in the area of early learning and childcare, through implementation of a range of other policies and programmes, including:

— the €70 million Building Blocks Capital Programme, under the National Development Plan 2021-2030, that is designed to meet current and long-term early learning and childcare infrastructure needs;

— the work underway to implement the National Action Plan for Childminding 2021-2028, with a commitment to opening the NCS to childminders at the earliest possible opportunity;

— the work underway to implement other recommendations in Partnership for the Public Good, including a new Tackling Disadvantage fund, the Equal Participation Model, whereby, services will be provided with a proportionate mix of universal and targeted supports to support children and families accessing their services who are experiencing disadvantage; and

— the work underway to implement Nurturing Skills, the Workforce Plan for the Early Learning and Care and School-Age Childcare Sector 2022-2028, with commitments to develop career pathways, promote careers in the sector and support staff recruitment, complementing recent achievements and future plans to improve pay and conditions of employment in the sector;

also notes:

— the recent Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) data that shows Ireland's performance in supporting families, and particularly lone parent families, with the cost of early learning and childcare markedly improving, even before the impact of recent enhancements to the NCS or the fee freeze is taken into account, specifically, OECD data that shows Ireland having the highest decrease in early learning and childcare costs to families across the European Union (EU) over the period 2019-2021, and that shows net childcare costs as a share of the household's net income for lone parents on low income in 2021, falling below the EU average for the first time;

— the recent report from the National Competitiveness and Productivity Council. Ireland's Competitiveness Challenge 2023, that welcomes the ongoing work by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth in this policy area and notes progress made likely to be 'a contributing factor behind the increase in female participation and our better performance in this area than many EU countries';

— the 2023 Country Report for Ireland from the European Commission, which rated Ireland's progress on the County Specific Recommendation to 'increase access to affordable and quality childcare' as 'substantial'; and

— the recent OECD Country Policy Review of Early Childhood Education and Care (ECEC) in Ireland concluded that 'Ireland is currently pursuing a strong policy agenda for Early Childhood Education and Care, with the adoption of a long-term whole-of-government strategy for babies, young children and their families covering the period 2019 to 2028' and acknowledged that 'the country has committed itself to improving access, affordability and quality of ECEC provision'; and

while noting that further developments and investment are required, recognises that there are many positive and progressive elements to the current early learning and childcare sector and acknowledges the pathway for improving access, affordability, quality and sustainability are set out in national policies, which Government has committed to implementing in this upcoming Estimates process and beyond.".

I also thank Deputy Funchion for tabling the motion and for providing me with an opportunity to discuss childcare this evening. I thank Sinn Féin because this is an important and serious topic. Over the past few years, I have visited dozens of childcare services throughout the country, including in my constituency in Dublin West, and I know the value and importance of early learning and childcare. I know what it means to parents who rely on and value those services to support them as they work, study and care for others; I know what it means to the childcare professionals, who do their job with such dedication and care; I know what it means to the service providers, who take such pride in the businesses they have built and the education and care they impart; and I also know what it means to children and how good-quality early learning and care to give them the very best start in life.

That is why since coming into office, I have placed more focus on this sector than any previous Minister for children. Last year, in its alternative budget, Sinn Féin committed to spending €270 million and during a cost-of-living crisis, made no explicit provision for additional pay for staff or investment in services. For our part, last year alone, the Government invested €346 million in childcare. That included fee reductions for parents, pay increases for staff and more investment in services. I, therefore, welcome the motion as an opportunity to discuss what has been achieved in early learning and childcare over the last number of years as well as our plans for the future.

I cannot change the fact that for decades, there was disinterest and fundamental underinvestment in childcare in this country before the Government and I came into office but we have placed a focus on childcare like no other. What the sector needs is serious, sustained and substantial investment and reform and that is what we are delivering. We are ending the market-led approach to early learning and childcare. By introducing core funding and bringing services into contract with the State, we are increasing public investment and increasing public management. This will benefit parents, providers and staff.

We invested more than €1 billion to support to the sector through Covid-19 and in the past two years alone, we have increased annual investment by €400 million. Childcare fees have been reduced by an average of 25%. This is saving parents thousands of euro each year. We have ended the practice of deducting hours spent in preschool or school from the entitlement to national childcare scheme hours benefiting up to 5,000 disadvantaged children. I acknowledge that it was Deputy Funchion who drew my attention to that when I entered office. The universal subsidy was extended to all children under 15 using registered early learning and childcare. In the past year alone, the number of families getting national childcare scheme childcare subsidies has almost doubled. In 2021, it was 87,000. Last year, it was 150,000 almost doubling the number of families benefiting from these State subsidies that directly make childcare more affordable. The Government has backed a first ever pay deal for early years educators. Last year, of the 25,000-strong workforce, the vast majority of whom are women, 73% saw a pay rise, many of them for the first time in the sector.

We have seen capacity expand, the number of service closures fall to a five-year low and, this year, the highest number of new services open in the past five years. Therefore, by every metric, things are getting better when it comes to childcare. Do we still have further to go? Absolutely. We have a huge amount more to do. Childcare is still too expensive, and as many Deputies have referenced, it is still too difficult to access in parts of the country. This is why the Government is committing to doing more by increasing investment and expanding capacity.

I know the level of paperwork and administration can be a burden for service providers. When it comes to the care of children, the most vulnerable members of our society, we know there are rules and regulations that have to be followed. Indeed, when it comes to administering in excess of €1 billion of taxpayers' money, there has to be oversight of how it is spent. However, I absolutely accept that we want childcare professionals to spend their time doing what they do best, which is providing early learning and care to children. This is why, at the early years forum two weeks ago, I announced that my Department will lead a full review of sector administration in consultation with the sector. We will examine it from when the parent first registers for the childcare identifier code key, CHICK, all the way through. This will be an entire systems review of the administrative burden. Having done that, we will bring in an action plan setting out what bits we can truncate rapidly and what will take a bit more IT investment to address. I accept that there is an administrative burden and we are committed to working with the sector to addressing it.

Workforce recruitment and retention remains a challenge, and that is why we have established a new group to work specifically on recruitment and retention issues, including looking at apprenticeships and employment permits. All of this will take time but it will strengthen the sector. A number of Deputies have spoken to the issue of capacity. We will bring forward a capital programme for next year to support capacity expansion. We are working with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on planning rules to make sure that when an early years service has to be provided as part of large developments, it actually is provided and is not just left as a shell. We know core funding has encouraged many services to expand their capacity but we also have to examine how, particularly public buildings, could be better used in supporting additional locations for early learning and care.

Throughout the past three years, I have sought to work constructively with providers, unions, parents and indeed with parties on all sides of the House as we look at how to improve childcare in the country. The reform is not straightforward. Sinn Féin will be well aware how challenging the childcare sector can be. Fees are falling here, albeit from a high rate. On the other hand, Northern Ireland has seen increases in childcare fees every year since 2013. According to the 2021 Employers for Childcare survey, almost one third of childcare providers in Northern Ireland described their financial situation as “distressed” or “struggling,” and many said they were at risk of closure that year.

I have set out clearly how I intend to reform the early learning and childcare sector so that it works for everyone, and I have backed that reform up with funding. What I am still not entirely clear on is where all parties across the House stand on the central policies. I would love to hear from colleagues in Sinn Féin, all others parties, and indeed from Independents, some clear answers regarding how they see the central policies being advanced here. Do parties support core funding? Do parties support the fee freeze? Do parties support using core funding to improve pay for staff? Do parties also support using the national childcare scheme, NCS, to cut the cost of childcare for parents? Those are the essential policy changes the Government has made. I believe they are working. The metrics show they are working. If parties are critical of what Government is doing and if they do not see that these policies are working, that is fine. However, we need to see and hear an alternative. This is not for me but for the parents, providers and staff. If people feel the Government's policies are not working, let us hear what the alternative is and how we can do it better. We have secured the biggest ever investment in the State's history in early years services and we are seeing the number of closures coming down, more parents getting more subsidies to cut the costs of childcare, staff getting increases in their take home pay, and more money being targeted to providers in recognition of the sustainability challenges they face. The Government and I are absolutely committed to continuing a programme of investment, reform, and expansion so we can deliver lower costs for parents, ensure sustainability for providers and better wages for the women and men in childcare professions who work so hard, and most importantly, so we can deliver better outcomes for children and young people around the country.

Childcare has become a significant issue for both parents and childcare professional, posing challenges to both groups in terms of cost for parents and proper pay for those working in the childcare sector. The cost of childcare is placing an unbearable burden on many parents. In some cases, it has led to mothers leaving the workforce because of the enormous financial strain on family finances caused by the high cost of childcare, which can be as high as a mortgage payment for some. Additionally, despite their qualifications and responsibilities, childcare professionals do not receive proper remuneration for their work. These issues need to be addressed as a matter of urgency. I hope the Minister will follow through on some of things he has said he will do.

These are not new issues, as we have been raising and talking about them for years in the House. It is essential that childcare is made more affordable for parents and that there is proper investment by Government in the childcare sector. Investing in childcare is not only an investment in our future but it also benefits families and society as a whole. Affordable and reliable childcare allows parents to participate fully in the workforce without compromising their children's well-being. It reduces stress among parents by providing them with peace of mind, knowing that their children are well cared for while they work. Proper remuneration for childcare professionals is crucial. They need to be paid a wage that properly reflects the value of their skills and responsibilities and the importance of their work. This will also ensure retention rates in the sector are improved and there is not an adverse turnover of professionals in the sector. Making childcare more affordable and accessible will not only benefit families but will also have long-term positive impacts on society as a whole. Sinn Féin proposes that childcare fees be cut by two thirds from 2022 levels through increased investment because quality childcare is an investment in the future of our children and ensures their wellbeing and development while supporting working families contributing to the economy.

The Government repeatedly says it recognises that our country is going through a cost-of-living crisis and that it understands the financial difficulties families and grandparents are experiencing, yet time and time again, it votes against any measures brought forward by the Opposition - particularly those of my own party Sinn Féin - that would alleviate the high costs of childcare and early learning, and remodel it to a mandatory national fee structure system. I hope this very important issue for families in County Wexford and across the country will not fall on deaf ears once again. It is within the Government's power to act and ease the burden on parents. I would go as far as to say that childcare and early learning are imperative for the whole country and for ensuring a sustainable robust economy into the future. Public investment is the key solution to helping struggling parents and guardians and will support both the private and community services, which at present are rapidly becoming unviable. In fact, new research by the Federation of Early Childhood Providers, FECP, stated that 264 providers will be unable to stay in business next year.

In our motion brought forward by Deputy Funchion, Sinn Féin is calling for the Government to give families a break by cutting the cost of childcare to two thirds from 2022 levels. The 25% decrease in fees in budget 2023 was positive help but it fell a way short of relieving the financial burden on parents and guardians. Childcare fees are still far too high. The percentage decrease did not go far enough, given the fact that many families continue to pay sky-high childcare fees, paying between €800 in most areas and up to €1,300 per child, per month, in cities. The ever-increasing costs faced by families and the rising energy costs are making childcare an unobtainable luxury.

When parents cannot access affordable childcare, this will make it harder for them to keep a job or re-enter the workforce or further education. It will impact women even more.

The Government also needs to allocate additional funding to provide fair play for professionals working in the sector as poor pay is driving highly qualified childcare staff out of their careers in search of work with a fair wage.

The Minister promised that childcare fees would be decreased by 25% in budget 2024. Will that promise be honoured? Parents want and need affordable, local and high-quality childcare. Providers need financial assistance.

I also commend Deputy Funchion on bringing the Bill before the House. I welcome the chance to talk about it because I referred to it last week as we were making the case to the Government to think again about increasing excise this month, given the pressures families and businesses are under.

Despite the overwhelming challenge that faces families, the pace with which a meaningful response has issued has not reflected the urgency of the situation for many. I was contacted recently by a doctor who told me that, like many others, the crèche to which she sends her two young children will close in solidarity with this campaign. The crèche has a staffing shortage due to the difficulty it experiences in attracting qualified graduates to the sector because of the rate of pay. Another parent spoke of the closure of the baby room in a community provider because of staff shortages as well. These are the same providers who will pay increased overheads with less in the way of income because poor pay is driving highly qualified childcare staff out of their careers.

Parents are paying more in every direction to cope with the pressures. Sky-high childcare fees are now forcing some parents to stay away from work or further education, and when that choice must be made it is predominantly women who take the brunt. We are talking about an issue that has profound consequences throughout families. Parents just want affordable, local and high-quality childcare, and they want it now. For these reasons, we urge the Minister to keep his word on decreasing fees by a further 25% in the coming budget and support all providers, private and community, to ensure that their services remain viable.

Furthermore, when childcare providers signed up to the new core funding model last year, we warned the Minister not to leave them high and dry, yet we hear the sector highlight how the core funding scheme does not adequately cover the cost of the increased overheads.

The Minister has asked what Sinn Féin would do. We would cut childcare fees for families by two thirds from 2022 levels to make them affordable for parents by increasing public investment. Furthermore, fee reduction under Sinn Féin would be underpinned by legislation and controlled through contractual agreement with providers. In the Minister's response he said that by every metric the Government is on the right track when it comes to childcare. In the same statement he talked about establishing a new group. It is not very encouraging that the Department has to establish a new group after three years. I know the Minister means well, and I have worked with him on other things. I ask him to take meaningful action now, make childcare affordable on a private and community basis and allow families to function as they are supposed to do.

I will bring up a number of issues and look for ministerial and departmental engagement.

First, I want to talk about the Muirhevnamor Community Youth Project after-school service. I asked for the information so I will provide it as it was provided to me.

We are a community based Afterschool Service in a large urban housing estate in a disadvantaged area [of Dundalk]. The Afterschool Service is based in what was originally a local authority house within the estate.

The Afterschool operates its service from 1.15pm – 6.15pm in normal times.

Current numbers [are] 24 ... capacity [is] 27 [but we] can't increase [this] due to staffing issues [and there are] currently 14 on a waiting list.

I am talking about projects that do huge work with really disadvantaged kids. Not all the kids are referrals; it is probably due to the efforts that are put in by these projects that they are not.

As regards staffing issues, at this point the after-school service requires two part-time staff. It currently relies on CE staff. Obviously, that is not perfect from the project's point of view or even that of those on CE, of which there is no uptake at the minute. The service states that "Core Funding restricts fee increases", but the reality is that the cost-of-living crisis does too. Sometimes, for those who pay fees, this project would accept them being paid very slowly and not necessarily weekly or monthly. The service further states:

We operate 2 school collections daily at both local schools within the estate at 1.15pm and 2.15pm. This demands 3 or 4 members of staff to be out of the building at the one time. Therefore going forward we are looking at this collection service to be inoperable.

We need action on this.

The Minister visited the House, in Cox's Demesne. It also has an after-school project. It is in a better circumstance than most "as we share the building with other projects and admin, management fees are shared as are running costs". It continues:

Basically we have a capacity of 32 and are full with a waiting list of 40. [That is the reality of what this project could offer.]

...

The difficulties we are encountering is the excessive paperwork. We ... are wondering why we couldn’t have a Service Level Agreement that would encompass everything as we do with Tusla and Justice. This would be far less cumbersome ... [particularly when we are talking about] NCS, CCSP, Core Funding.

I have a full booklet from the Lios na nÓg Playgroup, in Muirhevnamore. The Minister would have also visited the Holy Family Community Creche and would have dealt with some of the issues there. The following relates to the Minister.

Worrying increase of children with additional needs attending our service; ... a marked increase in physical, cognitive and behavioural issues along with diagnosed conditions.

The service states that the inclusion of all children and families is "coming with a serious impact to our staff as the needs of some children can predominate their time". What is welcome is the AIM programme, but "we are struggling with current allowances due to the increase in numbers of children access the programme at level 7".

I could give the Minister the statistics-----

I am sure you could, Deputy, but you are out of time now.

-----and we could get into them. The services are capping numbers, they say, and the ratios will not work. This is probably a service that an awful lot of other crèches may not be offering. I could probably continue for another hour-----

You are already half a minute over time.

-----but I do not think the Ceann Comhairle would allow me. I will engage with the Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, later.

I welcome the motion. We support it and acknowledge the work of Deputy Funchion on this issue. While doing so, it is important, on this issue, in my humble view, to adopt a less partisan approach, if I may put it that way, because we are dealing with children. If we can deal with the issue of children and access to childcare in a more collegiate fashion, dare I say it, then we should. I acknowledge the Minister's remarks in respect of the fact that, historically speaking, we are coming from a very low base in respect of this sector and there is still a long, long way to go.

I have checked the Minister's speech against the delivery. The wording of the Minister's speech, as distributed, states:

- Does Sinn Féin support Core Funding?

- Does Sinn Féin support the fee freeze?

- Does Sinn Féin support the use of Core Funding to improve staff wages?

I can only speak for the Labour Party because I think the Minister has articulated that he is putting out the call to all parties. What we support is a universal public model, but, unfortunately, not everybody in the sector supports that model, and that is their right. The sector, as I see it, notwithstanding the massive challenges it faces in terms of the cost base, does not appear to me to be absolutely united under one cause. I think they share many issues in common, but there are fundamental and understandable differences within the sector as to how the model should be funded, and that is entirely reasonable.

I appreciate the challenge the Minister faces, and that Ministers in general face, in trying to ensure that everybody can come on this journey, that everybody is adequately funded in terms of core funding, that they are able to operate according to their ethos, whether private or public, and that, ultimately, they are able to deliver the care to our children in a way that is commensurate with the regulations.

There are challenges, and I absolutely appreciate those challenges. I have to acknowledge that for years and years we did not have a model which was based on the notion of having a fair rate of pay for the job done. At least now we have that model. I never thought I would see the day when the stakeholders would be around the table. If I were to impart any words of encouragement to the stakeholders, they would be that they need to come back to the table. The Minister will correct me if I am wrong, but there is a need to ensure that there are rates of pay that deal with the issue of the high turnover of staff.

The rate of turnover is much too high and I suspect the reason is that people cannot sustain themselves in the sector at the current rates of pay.

I ask that a model be devised through core funding, which allows for a decent rate of pay that is commensurate with the professional skills and serious levels of educational attainment and continuous professional development these staff now have. These are highly skilled professional people and rates of pay should be commensurate. If the Government can intervene and people can come around the table and strike those rates of pay in a way that satisfies employers and employees, it should strive to do so. Sorting that out would keep people within the sector and we would not have the rate of attenuation we have at present.

As I understand it, and I am quoting figures used in SIPTU documentation, the proposed hourly rates of pay are €13.65 for early years educators and school age childcare practitioners; €14.70 for lead educators and room leaders; €16.28 for graduate lead educators; €16.49 for deputy assistant managers; €17.33 for managers; and €18.11 for graduate managers. SIPTU is saying that these proposed rates of pay fail to recognise or reward early years professionals and will only intensify the staffing crisis. I trust what SIPTU says in this regard. My party believes that if we can find a model that gives a good and competitive rate of pay, such that people are not inclined to leave the sector after a short number of years, and if their terms and conditions of employment are competitive, we will be more likely to retain people within the sector, and that would be good for all of us.

I suggest that any intervention the Government can make would be worthwhile. I acknowledge that core funding is increasing - there is no question about that. If there is scope within the budgetary parameters, we should strive to use it given the social good that childcare provides for society. That is in keeping with what we in the Labour Party believe. A universal model is the way to go. Deputy Bacik suggested previously that we should have a Donogh O'Malley moment. There is wisdom in that suggestion in terms of the benefit society derives from such investment. To be fair to the Minister, he is using his elbows at the budget negotiations. The proof of that is the year-on-year increase in investment in childcare. The next budget represents a good opportunity for him. If he can keep that investment on an upward trajectory, we will hopefully achieve what we need to achieve for the sector.

I want to recall the National Women's Council of Ireland day of action held on 19 September in respect of public childcare and the issue of gender. The National Women's Council stated that, staggeringly, 45% of all women in paid employment are working part-time hours. The lack of affordable and accessible childcare is a workers' rights issue, particularly for women. It could be argued that the Government needs to do more to intervene in that area because it is still a major challenge for working women. Let us face it; these women shoulder the burden of responsibility in most households. The clear lack of equitable access to childcare places is slowing down progress towards a public childcare system for all.

My colleague, Senator Sherlock, carried out a survey recently in Dublin's north-east inner city, which showed that one in four children in the area is without access to a free preschool place. Everything we know about breaking the cycle of disadvantage and deprivation points to putting in place support for children in the earliest years of their lives. We need to concentrate on children. They need to move up the pecking order in terms of the priority that is given to them politically and in terms of public discourse. We only have to refer to the recent report of the Ombudsman for Children, Dr. Niall Muldoon, on the state of play in disability services.

I contend that this cohort of politicians at this time is failing children on many fronts. We need to up our game in that respect, and when I say "We" I mean collectively. I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular. We should not do that. If we had a universal model of childcare that was properly funded, with good rates of pay that retain workers in the sector, it would stave off many of the issues of disadvantage, poverty and everything else we hear in respect of social deprivation. That would be a good start. I honestly believe the Minister and Minister of State have that mindset. I have no doubt about that. If, however, the priorities, resources and funding in this budget were to pivot towards children in a substantial way, we would do children a great service.

I thank Sinn Féin, specifically Deputy Funchion, for bringing forward this motion. The Deputy has worked collaboratively on the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, focusing on issues relating to children and their welfare. What is in the Sinn Féin motion is not a surprise to anyone. The majority of people recognise that childcare costs are far too high and are putting huge pressure on parents and social structures in our society. They also recognise that the rates of pay are not meeting the needs of staff within the sector either. I acknowledge, though, that the Minister has made a lot of investment in the sector and that he and the Department have focused on making the situation better for people. The childcare sector has suffered decades of underinvestment and a lack of focus and understanding by previous Governments. That is primarily because a lot of issues related to care and the role of women have been blind spots for Governments for many years.

Despite the level of investment and the work the Government is doing on childcare, there is a fundamental flaw and that is the model we are using, whereby the private sector is tasked with providing what should be a public service. That fundamental flaw will hold back and make less efficient any of the efforts or investment the Government makes. On that, I acknowledge that People Before Profit has an amendment to the motion on setting out the pathway to make childcare a public model. That is also the policy of the Social Democrats. There are fundamental public services that are the responsibility of government to provide, and childcare and early years education are among them. Unless Governments provide those services, they will never be fit for purpose because we are trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. If the primary purpose of the childcare sector is making profit, it will fundamentally cause difficulties.

We have seen strikes in the childcare sector in the past week. I do not know whether the Minister has seen Michael Taft's analysis of that, in which he looked at the different private companies and corporations that are providing large-scale childcare services in this country. It was interesting that this level of analysis was done. I am not sure whether the specific crèche providers mentioned in the analysis were affected by the strike but it illustrates the reason we believe that a public model is the only way to go. Mr. Taft uses Giraffe Childcare as an example. He states it is "the largest childcare chain in Ireland, operating in 23 locations. It is owned by a UK firm which is controlled by the Ontario Teachers’ Pension fund."

In 2020, which was the last year it filed its accounts, the company's profits rose by 60% to almost €3.5 million. In 2019, it paid €6.5 million in dividends to its owners. Even though that amount was reduced in 2020, it still paid €1.7 million to its owners in dividends. This was the same year the company received €6.7 million in public subsidies through the temporary wage subsidy scheme. This illustrates that for very large providers, which often are overseas corporations or companies backed by pension funds or investment funds, their sole purpose is profit. They will take every subsidy the State will provide and pass it on to its shareholders. This is their legal responsibility and their fiduciary responsibility. It is up to the State to manage and control that. This is why we need to move towards a public model.

I understand that if a provider accepts the core funding and signs up to the model, it has to open up its books to the Department. Is this information made publicly available? It would be a very positive step to take. There would be full transparency about how much public money the providers receive versus how much they make in profits. Ultimately, as a society, we need to move away from the profit-for-care model which we also see in disability services and elder care.

We need to keep children at the forefront of every discussion we have on this issue. Much of the time we do not hear from parents. They are in the fog of just trying to survive and do what is best for their children while working and covering everything else and paying for all of the services. I frequently do consultation in Wicklow to ask parents how they are finding things, to try to gauge whether people are still having issues with childcare and early care and whether they are the same issues, including whether there is still a financial issue Obviously finances are still a big problem. I find it very disheartening to hear back from constituents who say they have had to leave work because they can no longer afford childcare Perhaps they have two or three children and it is no longer financially feasible to continue with childcare.

We are pulling a generation of women out of the workforce that they want to be part of. It is incredibly hard to get back into the workforce. After being out of the workforce for even two, three or four years, their confidence is hit and the work has moved on without them. It is very hard to make that step back in. In instances where women in particular want to get back into the workforce we should assist them to do so.

Something that crops up a lot in Wicklow is flexibility. When we speak about early years care and childcare every family is different and every child is different. Each child is different at each stage of their lives. Their needs are different. When their children are very young, parents might want them minded in their own homes. Then they might want them socialising so they want them to go to a larger setting. This flexibility in meeting the needs of parents and children is not available in the current model. During Covid we saw a lot of parents being able to work more from home. It is highly unlikely that parents are able to get a three-day crèche facility. Many parents have to pay for five days even though they only need the service for three days. The flexibility is not there. It is something we should be considering and incorporating in the model.

There has been a great deal of development in Wicklow. To be fair, the council is quite proactive and required large developments to provide crèches on site. The reality is that the crèches provided in each estate or grouping of estates are too expensive for the majority of providers to access. Parents moved into these estates thinking a crèche would open down the road but since the children were born, they have been looking at empty buildings that were never utilised. Ideally the State should look at purchasing some of these sites. It should work with the council to acquire them and then perhaps use them as community crèches. This is something that should be considered. There is no point in having these empty buildings. What happens is that the developers state they could not get anyone to take them on and they want to turn them back into houses. This has happened over and over again. Those families who bought houses because they thought the service would be available to them are left very frustrated. Will the Minister consider this and perhaps speak to the childcare committees? I imagine there are only certain areas that have these empty facilities. I would be very grateful if the Minister would look at that.

When the Minister moved the amendment he painted a very rosy picture, and why would he not? Anybody who saw the demonstration last week outside the Dáil, which was not by a long shot only providers as there were hundreds of workers there, and listened to parents would have to recognise that there is a crisis in our childcare system. Many crèches have closed. The Minister said the closures are slowing down this year but crèches have closed. In the communities where they have closed they are gone forever. Childcare workers are leaving the system because the rates of pay are so low and their skills are not being recognised. Many parents are crippled by childcare costs and the oppressive financial burden of the spiralling cost of living.

The childcare model is broken. The Government subsidises small and medium companies. Some crèche owners report they feel handcuffed by the amount of paperwork needed to apply for the subsidies. On the other hand, parents are constantly worrying that the costs will rise further. Childcare workers know their skills and their contribution to this very important job are not being properly recognised.

In my area crèches have been closing down, including Linders, St. Michael's in Ballyfermot and the naíonra in Inchicore. These are very important locations for parents to be able to access childcare. They are gone and they are not coming back. There is no doubt that some private companies are struggling but we do not know exactly how many. Deputy Whitmore referred to the largest childcare operators in the State and I want to back up what she has said. The Giraffe company saw its profits rise in 2020 by a staggering 61% to €3.5 million. This is not something that we want to see in the provision of an essential service. It paid out a lot of money to its shareholders after the State subsidised it during Covid. It is late filing its accounts for 2021 but it did attempt in Dublin 8 to increase its costs twice in recent years. I had to make representations to the office of the Minister to intervene to make sure it did not happen.

Almost two thirds of all early years services are privately owned and the remainder are community-based services that are not for profit. Thousands of workers on low pay are not compensated for their skills and most services operate at capacity with long waiting lists. Access to these services is getting more and more difficult and fees for parents are way too high.

I want to speak on the amendment that I cannot move, which states that we believe the Sinn Féin motion, although welcome, does not go far enough. It is limited and says nothing about moving to a publicly funded childcare system. We wanted to make an amendment to state we should immediately move to a publicly owned and funded national childcare service, free at the point of use, where childcare workers are employed as public sector workers with pay and benefit on a scale in line with teachers. We propose this move as something we would transition to immediately. We need a statement from the Government that it will provide childcare free at the point of use so there is no discrimination against workers or parents, regardless of how marginalised or poor they are or how much they can afford it.

The Minister is probably aware of the National Women's Council of Ireland's publication in which it calls for a similar model. It points out that one in three women who leave their jobs do so because of the high childcare costs, and that rises to a staggering 60% among lone parents. The amendment to the motion that we and the National Women's Council of Ireland called for was also called for by the Citizens' Assembly on Gender Equality and the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child. It is a model that many EU countries employ. Many do not, but Ireland still remains one of the most expensive places to access childcare in the EU, like many other things. We have a pre-budget submission to be published on Friday. We tabled many questions on this and the costs of doing it will be detailed in that submission. I will not go into them here but those details are important.

The lack of affordable and accessible childcare is a real barrier for parents, communities and children themselves. Early years education is the single biggest barrier to women participating fully in life and in work. I say "women" because we are still left with a gender imbalance in care duties, whether they are paid or unpaid. Early years education should be seen as a public good and a vital public service and as an investment in children, not a commodity or something that makes profit. We would not tolerate a hodgepodge of various private and sometimes community-owned funding streams going to our four-, five- and six-year-olds in national and primary school, so why do we tolerate it when they are that bit younger? In fact, if education was fully free and State-run, it would be a huge plus to our society as a whole. All the sociological surveys and reports show that the more we invest in children at a younger age, the better the outcomes in life for the economy, our citizens and everybody in our State as a whole. Everyone, regardless of their income or how marginalised they are, should have access to quality and free childcare. We would have liked to have moved our amendment. We are not able to move it because the Minister has moved the Government amendment but nevertheless, that policy is very important and needs to be promoted. We would like to see the Government move towards that in the future.

The debate on childcare so far has been incredibly bizarre in many ways. We are talking about a sector that in large areas is on the precipice of collapse. There has been a massive increase in the number of early years education, ECCE and childcare providers that have been suffering so much economically that they find it nearly impossible to survive. It is incredible because we have raised this issue repeatedly. I am at times shocked by the fact that the Minister refuses to move on an issue that is so important to the providers, workers, children and parents who are looking for a provider in their local areas. For me, that is the elephant in the room around this particular debate at the moment.

It is not surprising that the Dáil leaves out some of the main elements of what people are experiencing. Much of the debate we have in this Chamber is in a bubble and does not reflect the realities of many people's lives. I cannot overstate how serious this is, however. In 2019, there were 77 net closures; in 2020, there were 70 net closures; in 2021, there were 62 net closures; and last year, there were more than 80 net closures of childcare facilities around the State. These are net closures, which reduces the pool of provision and reduces the options for parents in the country.

These are small businesses that are closing. I note the reference to Mr. Michael Taft. I have good regard for Mr. Taft's economic analysis, but in his analysis, he was looking at the very big providers, which are doing extremely well from the Government's provision of finances. Small providers, however, typically the family businesses around the country, are the ones who are suffering the most. The Government has hit them with a double whammy. It has capped the fees but it will not provide the necessary investment at their level to make sure they are viable. It is incredible because, first of all, many of these individuals have lost businesses into which they put massive personal investment, worked so hard to keep open and into which they put their blood, sweat and tears. I listen to the providers, again, it has to be said, most of whom are women, and they tell me that they have to take out personal loans to keep their businesses afloat. It is incredible that we are talking about, obviously, the positivity of the Government increasing the level of investment, and I recognise the level of investment that has gone in, but there is a refusal and, I will say, stubbornness, in making sure the smaller businesses and smaller providers get the necessary funds to be able to make sure they can function.

It is not alone the providers of childcare or early years education who are suffering in this country. It seems that the sectors in which we place the care of the most precious people in our lives, our children and parents, are those that are the least properly funded and supported by the Government. We know that nursing homes around the country are on the precipice of closure at present. We also know that children in State care are extremely badly serviced by the level of provision of care in that sector. The Minister will know only too well that there are so few places available in State care now that the Government is using these special facilities and special accommodation to provide care for children in State care. These are unregulated and unvetted and are leading to a situation whereby highly vulnerable children are exposed to exploitation. We need to realise as a society that if we want to be able to look after those who are most precious to us in the best way we can, we have to tell providers of care that we will fund them properly, guarantee decent wages and make sure they are viable and feasible. That is not what is happening right across nursing homes to childcare and children in State care at the moment. Two of those areas are in the Department for which the Minister is responsible.

I commend the 4,000 workers and providers who attended the protests outside the Dáil last week. An incredible number of people come up to protest and, again, the vast majority of these were women. They are not coming up for the good of their health. They have been involved in what is now a four-year campaign. That is an arduous task. It is hard for people to have to show up to protests month after month and year after year. It is difficult for them to close down their businesses for a number of days to do that, but they are doing it because wages in many parts of the sector are down as far as the minimum wage. They are closing their businesses because they are in debt. The Minister said last week that it was unwarranted for these workers and providers to go on strike. I really thought there was a chasm between the understanding of the Minister and the reality of these workers. For a Minister on €180,000 per year to say it was unwarranted for staff on the minimum wage to strike for their sector, it seems like there is a disconnect of enormous proportions. It is so important that the Minister meets the sector in a positive, open and listening fashion to make sure-----

I am sorry; is the Deputy sharing time?

I am sharing a couple of minutes with Deputy Verona Murphy. I will finish up with this. It is important that the Minister sits down in an open fashion and listens to the providers. If he does not, much of this conversation will be immaterial because when a parent goes to find a location, that location will not exist.

I thank the Deputy. To follow on from my colleague, Deputy Tóibín, we have already debated school transport in this Chamber today. I am afraid it was the Department's failure and that of the lead Minister to plan for such a situation whereby we have eroded and depleted the operators' sustainable and viable operations through poor planning. We no longer have bus operators. For years they have been told about these problems, but we now find ourselves unable to provide buses to get children to school. I am very concerned. I am here on a cautionary basis to say that while the Minister's intentions are good, and the populace in general believe they are paying less for childcare, I can see very soon, maybe in a year or two, that we will not have providers because the Government is not listening to them.

They are working off 2017 rates in a time when the costs of living, energy and everything else have increased well in excess of 30% to 40% of what they were operating at in 2017. It is not sustainable.

I attended a meeting called by the childcare providers of the south east during the summer recess. I was the only Deputy in the south east who attended. Predominantly, the meeting was filled with women, who are providing the services. At least 20% of the providers had exited the core funding model and they could not impress enough upon those who were left that they had no such issues and were readily receiving an extra 40% from parents to cover their costs.

Now, something is wrong somewhere. I do not know what the Minister's business background is but I know what mine is. If something is not sustainable, then one does not borrow money to keep it going. It is necessary to exit and start another business or to very quickly exit core funding, which is where the problem is. Staff are being paid in the region of €13 an hour and even the operators would concede it is not enough. Based on the Minister's model, though, they cannot pay the staff any more because they must cover their costs. No person with business acumen pays the staff over and above where he or she can make any margin of profit. I left a business where my profit margin was 3% for hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of investment and risk. That is not sustainable in the childcare model.

I am cautioning the Minister, therefore, not to ride off into the sunset, because this is probably where he will be when this issue comes up in two years' time. I refer to not having enough childcare providers then. We cannot pay section 39 operators, who are now predominant in the care of our most vulnerable. The Government is refusing to recognise this point. We do not have bus operators to take our children to school. We do not have gardaí, because we cannot recruit them due to the terms and conditions being so bad. We do not want there to be a lack of childcare providers and a situation where our mothers leave the workforce because they must look after their children and drive them to school. This is where I see this going, so I ask the Minister to take this issue very seriously.

I call Deputy Nolan of the Rural Independent Group, who is sharing time with all her colleagues.

At this stage, we are all dizzy from being on the merry-go-round with the Minister on the issue of childcare provision. It has come up so many times, yet there has not been enough resolution from him. I heard directly from the early childcare providers, namely, the FECP. Its representatives were here with us in the audiovisual room last week briefing us on this issue. Many were experienced providers who have been in the sector for 18 to 20 years. They told us they cannot keep their doors open, that they are really struggling and have to borrow money to keep their businesses open because they do not want to let down parents. That came across from the meeting and it would have done the Minister good to have heard from those providers as well. It would be better, maybe, if he met them directly rather than trying to hide behind a stakeholder forum. I ask him, therefore, to engage directly with them, because this is the only way we will get solutions.

Earlier, the Minister mentioned solutions. One solution would be for him to meet these providers face to face and hear about these problems for himself. The Minister and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth have completely failed to address the ongoing concerns identified by providers in Laois and Offaly and around the country. Last week's action was inevitable and it was the result of a major breakdown in trust. Information provided to me by the FECP shows that at least 141 crèches closed their doors across almost every county in 2022 and that a further 46 have closed this year alone. This very fact, in and of itself, should have provided the necessary wake-up call, and, indeed, an alarm call, to signify that a major crisis was brewing.

We know from the Federation of Early Childhood Providers that the increase in core funding is well below inflation and the cost of living, with industry costs rising six times faster. This makes more service closures inevitable unless the Government immediately changes course. Will the Minister respond directly to the federation's repeated requests for a full breakdown of the funding allocated to the sector? It has said that the claim of €1 billion annually being spent on childcare is false. This is what the FECP is saying. It is stating that it is clear that only 55%, or €564 million, of this alleged budget goes towards supporting the sector.

I too am very concerned about this issue. These providers came up here last week. They were forced to come up here. They did not want to be here either because they wanted to be looking after children and not inconveniencing the parents and families. When I questioned the Taoiseach about this, and the Minister was here himself when I did, he said it was only 5% of providers and dismissed them as irrelevant. The Government is so out of touch now across the board. As people have said, we do not have buses to bring kids to school, a simple stroke of the pen will not be utilised to allow those over 70 to drive if they are medically fit and the Government will also not deal with this issue concerning the new core model, which is failing badly.

I was delighted to be a founder member of Naíonra Chaisleáin Nua with Helen McGrath some 25 years ago. We recently celebrated a birthday. It is flourishing, thank God, and has great staff, a great team and a great board. This has been the case with successive boards. Almost 200 smaller providers, though, who invested themselves and took the gamble, built extra facilities, put in all the requisite standards and maintained them, and employed people, went out of business last year and this year so far. Will the Government wake up and smell the coffee? This is not working. A stakeholder forum is useless, toothless and fruitless, as I said. I ask the Minister to meet these providers, listen to them and engage with them. How could a Government become so out of touch in such a short time? It beggars belief. I do not know how it happens but the Government has got out of touch with everybody. It has the gardaí on strike and the barristers on strike. As I said, regarding the section 39 organisations, and all these people, the Government wants the whole place stopped.

The early childcare providers have delivered for this country but shamefully, the Minister has turned his back on them. He has shamefully rattled out figures time and time again but has never broken these down. These providers have asked him for a complete breakdown of them. Those who came up here and had to go on strike for three days outside the Dáil have to listen to the Minister and the Taoiseach dismissing them as if they are only pieces of dirt. They are not. They are delivering a fantastic service. Some 97 of those providers have closed in the past 12 months but the Minister is not concerned about this. He is protecting someone out there and we all want to know who he is protecting because it is not the ordinary people and not the ordinary childcare providers.

I have attended every one of their meetings, whether in Cork or west Cork, that I have been asked to attend. No other Deputy does it, but when those providers are outside the Dáil here, every Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Deputy is running around patting their backs. What delivery has the Government given them? It has given them nothing and has destroyed their livelihoods. They are hanging on the edge and they have told us this. They are not making up this story. They do not want to be on strike for three days. They want to look after children. The parents of those children came up with them. The providers themselves were there. Their own families were there.

Let us imagine that for these providers to go home and provide an income, they have to turn to their partners or whatever, to survive. This is what they are doing. These women are telling me that they are turning to their partners or husbands for their businesses to survive every week. This is an astonishing situation. The Minister aiding and abetting them going out of business is not good enough. I told the Taoiseach that the Minister's position must be called into question. If the Minister cannot do his job, or if he does not understand the agony these providers are going through, then he must be dismissed; end of story. This is what happens in the real world that I grew up in any way. I refer to accountability, and it needs to start on the Minister's side.

I thank Sinn Féin for moving this important motion. We all saw those people who came up so organised last week and highlighted their plight. It was one of the largest crowds that has been outside the gates for much of the time I have been here. The story now is this has gone as far as parents having to ensure they have a childcare place before they actually have the child. It has gone this far because they see their neighbours and other parents suffering while trying to find childcare places. They cannot find them and places are closing down. Some 97 places have already closed around our country and more are contemplating closing. The providers cannot pay their way. Likewise, many of the childcare workers are earning as little as €17,000 annually, which is not acceptable.

Long gone is the day when grandparents and mothers minded the children at home. Grandparents played an integral part in keeping the children out of the fire and the barrel of water, and the children did jobs for them. That day is long gone. Families need two parents to continue to work to keep the roof over their heads. However, it is happening now that many of them cannot do so, with one having to stay at home. The Minister has to do something about this, as he promised he would. He has let people down; there would not have been so many of them outside the gate of Leinster House if he had not done so. He is compromising the situation of these families because he is too busy looking after refugees and asylum seekers. That is not fair on our children.

The Government has done the same thing to early childcare providers that it did to elder care providers in this country. It helped to close down providers of elder care in the form of small nursing homes and now it is doing the same in respect of early care of children. Childcare providers are under pressure because of inflation and that is happening as a result of all the decisions made by the Government, which have made it impossible to provide a service. The impact of the inflation the Government has caused on people's wages is causing these businesses to close. As we heard, 97 closed down last year. A total of 200 small nursing homes have closed down, all because of decisions of the Government. Parents must ask grandparents to mind their children and can only send them into childcare one or two days a week. That is having a knock-on effect on the ability of businesses to stay open. It all goes back to decisions the Government has made. The Government is not just punishing children coming into this world; it is also punishing people who are at the end of their time and are leaving this world. I hope the Minister can sit with his conscience, knowing what he has voted for and what he has caused in this country.

I am sharing time with Deputies Harkin and Joan Collins. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this topic. I support the intention of the motion and thank Sinn Féin for tabling it. Rather than focusing on temporary solutions, which are important to relieve the financial pressure, it is time to look at a new model. We have been struggling with this issue for some time. The Government's approach to early education is based on three strands, with which the Minister is very familiar. The first was announced in 2009 and brought into being in 2010. Then there were changes in 2019 and 2021. We had a trinity of changes. I acknowledge the extra money provided but I despair at the Government's continuing model for the provision of childcare, healthcare and housing, involving the privatisation of everything and the handing over of money to private providers. It is absolutely essential that we change that model and it is time to do so.

When I was in the Chair earlier today, I took particular notice of the Taoiseach's response to a parliamentary question in which he confirmed that the child poverty and well-being programme office has been set up in his Department. He spoke about six areas on which the office will focus in order to have the greatest effect on the lives of children, the second of which was early learning and childcare. However, we have had a jigsaw approach in this regard, definitely since 2009 and prior to that. Every election in which I have stood, in 2007, 2011, 2016 and 2020, the major topics at the door were housing, healthcare and childcare. Nobody asked for taxes to be reduced. I knocked on as many doors as I could in Galway and nobody asked for tax cuts. They asked for improved services. The Minister of State is looking at me. I am sure she had the same experience at the doors. People wanted services in return for taxes.

The Oireachtas Library and Research Service, as usual, has provided a very good note, published back in 2020, on the public provision of early childhood education in Ireland. The short report, setting out key messages, is well worth reading. It states:

Ireland has the highest level of private provision of Early Childhood Care and Education... along with relatively low Government investment [which I acknowledge has increased], low wages for educators and high fees for consumers. The available research has identified positive outcomes of public early childcare programmes...

Some of those positive effects are listed and I may have time to mention them presently. The report notes that the key challenge is to implement a policy shift. That is what we need from the Government but I do not think we will get it. I will put my hands up and say "Sorry" if we do. We are supposed to have learned from the Covid period. We are supposed to be learning about transformational change. We must stop with the market model. Of course, there is a place for the market, but the market must be subservient to the common good. Childcare is an essential service and it must be provided in a way that allows parents to make decisions at affordable and accessible rates. I would prefer it to be free. We pay taxes in return for services. The Oireachtas Library and Research Service has carefully identified that Ireland is nearly bottom of the list when it comes to public provision of early childhood care and education. It points to a 2019 European Commission report showing the cost of ECCE services for children under three in Ireland is among the highest in Europe. It also highlights that those countries with the highest fees all use market-driven mechanisms to provide early childhood care services.

There have been many protests by childcare providers, most recently last week. I support the protestors and I absolutely recognise the problems they have in trying to survive. However, the solution is not to provide more money in the coming budget and the following one. The motion put forward by Sinn Féin does not provide the solution either, although I support it without hesitation. We need public provision of childcare, as the Minister knows, just as we need public provision in many other areas. Care of the elderly has already been mentioned. Marketisation has reduced the choices available to people and made them more expensive in every single service we provide. We have seen a complete reversal in the provision of nursing homes. It used to be 80:20 in favour of publicly owned provision. Now, fewer than 20% of nursing homes are public and, as I was reliably informed today, only 3.5% of them are not-for-profit and they are struggling. All of the time, including with the housing assistance payment, HAP, and the various subsidies in housing, we are supporting a market that has utterly failed and does not put the common good to the fore.

I thank Sinn Féin for highlighting the issues to do with the cost and accessibility of childcare and the need to ensure early childhood educators have a decent salary scale. We also need to ensure the small to medium-sized childcare services run by more than 4,000 women across the country are sustainable in the medium to long term. That is not happening. The Minister made a good start in last year's budget, which I was happy to see, but there are still massive challenges around cost, accessibility and recruitment and retention of staff.

Last week, thousands of childcare providers and their staff sent a strong message outside Leinster House that a significant number of small to medium-sized providers are currently operating on a barely break-even basis. Some are closing certain parts of their services as they scramble to keep their doors open. They are in crisis and the Minister knows it. However, he rushed out a press release on the day the childcare providers were outside Leinster House saying closures were at a five-year low, with 46 net closures in the first six months, January to June, of 2023. It was as if 46 net closures of childcare services in six months is something to boast it. The Minister is well aware that even in his own constituency, childcare facilities are closing and a substantial number of them are not informing Tusla because they are not relinquishing their licence. They are not included in his figure of 46 net closures. That number tells us there is a crisis in childcare provision. While we may get the likes of Giraffe Childcare and other large providers opening some new services in cities and large towns, we are losing the small to medium-sized, independent providers in the smaller towns and rural areas, including in my constituency. The Minister really needs to listen to those providers.

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing this motion to the Dáil. I have been working with a group of small childcare providers in my constituency and I was happy to stand with them, and with hundreds of others, last week at the Federation of Early Childhood Providers' demonstration. The Taoiseach said the demonstration was "not warranted" and caused "great inconvenience". What I believe is unwarranted and inconvenient is parents having to juggle work, to make ends meet and a childcare system implemented by the State that is totally affordable and not fit for purpose. We need a better childcare system in this country, which needs to be a public system provided by the State, staffed with public workers, and free at the point of access. Early childcare providers are carers and educators. This needs to be recognised.

In my mind there is no place in the education of our children for profit and for all the corners that are cut to make profit. The Government's current plan seems to create a system solely for the large multi-million euro providers. If a provider does not have the financial weight it gets squeezed out of the system, leaving a small number of large, wealthy providers to exploit what is left for profit. We have seen this happen in France where four companies own the majority of childcare centres now. That is what we have seen as the profits soar for the big providers. The biggest provider in this State, Giraffe Childcare, is owned by a UK firm that is controlled by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan. Giraffe Childcare had an increase of profits of more than €1 million from 2019 to 2020, and saw its cash holdings double. Meanwhile, small community providers that historically stepped into the breach when there was a huge gap in childcare provision decades ago are struggling to make ends meet. This has a huge effect on the wages of workers in the sector. Small providers will see turnover squeezed and the big providers chase the profits. This system is more and more designed for the large companies and is being planned and implemented by the Government, as far as I can see.

Between six large providers profits increased sevenfold to €6.9 million from 2019 to 2021, while smaller providers closed down and went out of business. All of this is happening in a cost-of-living crisis where parents cannot afford to miss work for childcare or to have a parent's day at home.

I agree with Deputy Connolly that the Sinn Féin motion probably does not go far enough but I will be supporting it. We need a policy shift. We need free public childcare. At the very least we need to change the system that is pushing smaller community providers out of business and where big wealthy companies get to step in and see their profits soar. We must make sure that childcare is affordable for all families and we must ensure that childcare workers can get a proper wage.

I welcome this debate and I support the motion that has been put forward. It is timely with only one week out from the budget announcement and considering that thousands of people turned out to protest last week. It is vitally important.

I listened to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman's, contribution and I welcome the sentiment around the fact that much more work needs to be done here. This cannot be overstated.

We are having this discussion because of the lack of priority given to the sector by successive Governments. We are coming from a very low base. Obviously, the reform required will be massive and far bigger than what we seen in investment last year.

With regard to the large undertaking, it should be kept under review and future-proofed, and we should mitigate increases, such as the cost of electricity and heating expenses the sector has endured. The sector should be able to respond to those kinds of increases. It is absolutely necessary. Inflation has increased exponentially in the three-year period from May 2020 to May 2023 while the core funding has risen only by 6% in that period.

I respect that it was only a starting point but can it be recognised that there have been considerable failings here? We are aware that three groups are affected: there was the cost to the parents; the low pay of these highly skilled workers; and the cost of being a provider in the context of low fees for parents and fair pay for the valued workers who are educators. On that note, the Minister certainly cannot deny that there is major discontent in the childcare sector. They are deeply affected by the removal of their title as educators. They see this as a significant move. I put it to the Minister that a lot of hurt has been caused by what might seem to his Department a minor change but it has caused a ripple effect. The sector wants this rectified and rightly changed back to "educators". It would be great if the Minister could commit to that much today as a gesture to show he is hearing their concerns. Workers in the sector are predominantly female - up 98% - and they have had a hard time being heard.

On the core funding, this has been devised and administered in a way that means the small businesses are now operating at a loss. They are worse off under the new scheme. We risk those falling out of the core funding scheme.

I welcome the motion from Sinn Féin as an opportunity to debate the important issue of early learning and childcare. I support the amendment put forward by the Minister, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman. It is clear from the debate so far that we all recognise the importance of early learning and childcare for children and their families, as well as for society and the wider community. We are all in agreement that further efforts are needed to: reduce out-of-pocket costs for families; to improve the pay and working conditions of the hard-working and committed workforce; to reduce the administrative and regulatory burden on providers; to maintain the providers on a solid and sustainable footing; and to ensure that children get the very best possible start in life.

In opposing the Deputies' motion in putting forward an amendment the Government's objective is not to claim there are no challenges in the sector but rather to demonstrate that the Government has set out a pathway to address these challenges, and has already made significant progress in this regard with the European Commission recently endorsing our approach and welcoming the substantial progress we have made.

In his opening statement, the Minister described the constituent parts of the together for better Government funding model for early learning and childcare. He also outlined key indicators that show together for better is bringing enormous benefit to children, their families, educators, practitioners and providers. Among the achievements in year one was: a fee freeze among 95% of the services, which meant an increase to the national childcare scheme, NCS, subsidy that was fully felt by parents; a 15% increase in the number of services offering the NCS; and historic employment regulation orders that resulted in the improvement of pay for an estimated 73% of those working in the sector. Not long ago I sat where Deputy Funchion is sitting, when we the biggest strike I ever witnessed and 20,000 people took to Merrion Street, all of whom were protesting to ensure their employment regulation order. That has been delivered. Further achievements in year one include extended support for graduate-led provision outside the ECCE programme and a significant expansion of capacity. Analyses show the increased capacity in this type of capacity that is the highest demand relative to supply. There was also a 90% increase in the number of children benefitting from the NCS. Early indications are showing that we will build on these achievements in year two - already, 4,200 services are in contract for core funding - and we will be committing to maintaining the fee freeze at 2021 levels, and offering the ECCE programme and the NCS to families. More than 127,000 children currently benefit from the NCS. We understand that negotiations of the joint labour committee are at an advanced stage with further improvements in pay expected later this year through an updated employment regulation order.

The Minister earlier signalled his ambition to invest further in this funding model in the upcoming budget, which will yield further benefits for children and their families, educators, practitioners and providers. As the Minister of State with responsibility for disabilities I am very aware of the importance of inclusion of all children in early learning and childcare services and the provision of additional support for services when necessary. This is why I welcome in particular the commitment by the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, to extend the access and inclusion model, AIM, supports beyond the ECCE programme. I have seen at first hand the enormous difference AIM has made since it was first introduced in 2016. It has enabled many young children with disabilities to attend and be fully included with meaningful participation in the ECCE programme and mainstream preschool. It has also supported the development of a more inclusive culture of practices in preschools and developed the confidence of the workforce in their capacity to include children with disabilities.

I also welcome the important work under way to develop the equal participation model, which is identified as a key action in the Government's From Poverty to Potential: A Programme Plan for Child Poverty and Well-being 2023-2025.

In addition to the funding model, the wider and ambitious reform agenda under way in the area of early learning and childcare through the implementation of a range of other policies and programmes deserves special mention. This agenda includes the work under way to finalise a new implementation plan for First 5 to cover the period to the end of 2025, including setting out a new State investment target; the work under way to implement the National Action Plan for Childminding 2021-2028, with a commitment to opening the National Council For Special Education, NCSE, to childminders early next year, which I believe will be truly transformative; the work under way to implement fully all 25 recommendations in Partnership for the Public Good, the report of the expert group for the new funding model; the work under way to implement Nurturing Skills, the workforce plan for the sector for 2021 to 2028, with commitments to develop career pathways, promote careers in the sector and support staff recruitment, complementing recent achievements and future plans to improve pay and conditions of employment in the sector; the work under way to develop an action plan for administrative and regulatory simplification, as announced by the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, recently and which was clearly part of Deputy Funchion's opening contribution; the planning work under way for a new State agency to support the delivery of early learning and childcare; and the €70 million building blocks capital programme under the national development plan which is being designed to meet current and long-term early learning and childcare infrastructure needs.

Early learning and childcare is a public good which benefits across society. While Government accepts that challenges remain and that further developments and investment are required, the work committed to and the progress by Government will deliver much-needed and long-lasting reform to this essential sector. This is why I am supporting the amendment.

It is important for me also to say as a colleague in government that I have seen it is more than just a listening ear. There is a lot of action being demonstrated there. Sometimes good sustainable policy foundation frameworks are needed to change the agenda as to how we are delivering and investing in childcare. What I have seen the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, do within the Department in recent years is put in that framework. That framework is to address career pathways to put in the opportunities for families, educators and providers to all feel that the tide is rising to support them. It is in clear recognition of listening to all within the sector.

It is not one piece that makes the sector of childcare. That is why it is so complex. It is the educators, the providers, the child at the centre and the parents who are entrusting their most precious every morning to the providers. There is quite a vast array of how we support, from the community to the most disadvantaged, to the privates and perhaps to the larger providers as well, but trying to strike that balance while ensuring we have sustainable childcare is most important and is a predominant feature at all times for the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman.

The Minister and the Department, with my support, will continue to invest in childcare. It is an ambitious plan the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has set out here, but he has asked four clear questions as well as to where exactly we, as a collective, want to see childcare going.

I thank Deputy Funchion for putting down this motion. As has been said, it is timely in the context of the children going back to school in September and we have the issue of childcare in crisis throughout the country, it has to be said. That is the reality people are facing.

I listened to much of the debate. I do not in any way doubt the sincerity of the Minister or anyone in the Department who is trying to deliver this, but the system is broken. There is a difficulty here that is not being acknowledged and is not being overcome.

Recently, a constituent spoke to me. The couple moved to Leitrim from another part of the country and they do not have a family network around them. They have three children. She has worked for the past ten years in a local accountancy firm and she has given up work recently because of two issues. The first is childcare. She has two children who are in preschool and childcare costs have gone up. The second issue is that the other child, who is four years old and is going to primary school, for the first year has no school. The child cannot get the bus. They have to drive the child to school. Adding those two together, she said she cannot continue working and she just stopped working. That is not good for our society. We have a system where we have services we are meant to provide that are supposed to activate people so that they can be contributing, be part of our community and make a positive contribution. It is also better for the children that they would be going on the school bus, for climate change and all kinds of other reasons, and indeed for the children in preschool education, with all the benefits and advantages. This is not only a childminding service so that parents can go to work. It provides a significant advantage for the children who are engaged there in the system of education which is in place along with the skills that are brought to bear by the talented workforce who are hugely underpaid in all of that sector.

My party has looked at this in three ways. First, we have the issue that the costs are clearly too high for many families and we want to see a situation where they would be reduced by two thirds to the 2002 level. I have heard other speakers mention that we need to move towards a system where we would have a public childcare service, just as we have a public education service which is free at the point of entry. Certainly, we are not opposed to that. That is the direction of travel it needs to go in, but we also have budget constraints right now that we need to look at. We also have to recognise we are in a cost-of-living crisis and that has a bearing on the childcare providers as well. Their heating bills, electricity bills and all of their costs have gone up, and yet the only way they can try to make a living is to charge more of the parents of the children they are looking after and providing a service to, and that is having another impact. It is a spiral which has gone out of control. The Government needs to intervene positively and directly to ensure it can deliver for those children, for their parents, for the providers and, indeed, for the people who work in the service.

Many of those who work in the service become very disillusioned. They are there for a few years and they walk away because, they say, they have to make a living somewhere else where they will be appreciated and where they will be looked after. They do not feel they are getting that, as committed as they are to childcare practice. Many of them have studied, have got degrees and diplomas and have put a lot into this, and they turn around after it all and say they made a wrong choice and walk away. That is also an indictment of the service and the system.

On the proposals my party is putting to the Minister, I note, in his speech, the Minister mentioned a number of things. One of them was apprenticeships and employment permits and having a plan around all of that. If that is coming, I welcome it. We need to see that but, to be frank about it, we are a bit late seeing it. We should have had this quite some time ago. We should have seen this crisis coming, particularly the provision of staff in childcare services.

There are a number of questions the Minister asked in respect of that. I will leave it to my colleague to reply to the Minister. I am sure Deputy Funchion will reply to the Minister very directly in respect of those questions. That is fair enough, but the real question here is not for the Opposition. The real question here is for Government. The Government has control over this situation. The main party in government, Fine Gael, has been there for more than a decade. I do not see all its Deputies here tonight and yet we are in this crisis. There needs to be recognition of that. The Opposition has a job to do to hold those in government to account, but the Government has the job to deliver. As far as childcare is concerned in this country, it is clear that delivery has been very short.

I thank everybody for their contributions and those who are supporting the motion. I again acknowledge that there has been work done in this sector. I said that last year at budget time as well. I also welcome aspects of the Minister's speech in relation to access and inclusion model, AIM. If that is to be extended, that would be welcome. It would be fantastic. On the administration that we regularly talk about, it is not that anyone has an issue with the burden of it but that they just need support to be able to hire somebody to deal with the administration.

I am a Member of this House since 2016 and in some way, shape or form, apart from being my party's education spokesperson for a very short time, I have always been in this portfolio, either as a junior spokesperson or, in recent years, as the main spokesperson.

I have done a huge amount of work in this sector. I was on the committee in the previous Dáil. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte was also a member of the committee. On that committee, I was the rapporteur for a report specifically relating to workers in the early years sector. The committee received unanimous support in the Dáil for a motion it brought forward in respect of the workers.

Something popped up on my Facebook page today from our budget launch in 2017 when I was delighted that something I had sought for the workers was acknowledged in our budget proposals. This is not something that we are just coming to the table with; I have been working on it for years. To answer a specific question on our policy, we launched our comprehensive policy in July 2022. It remains our policy. I do not have a difficulty answering questions of that sort directly. I do not only want to see fees being frozen; I want them to be reduced. Of course we want to see workers in the sector being recognised. We also want specific ring-fencing. I would love to see a wage scale come into the sector. That is something we have allowed for in our budget proposals in recent years.

The issue is not core funding. It is how it is administered for certain providers, namely, small providers who very clearly said last week that one size does not fit all. There are people who are doing fine and others who are doing better, but there are services which are really struggling. They might fall outside the box. They are the sessional services. Many are in rural areas, and we need to look at that. Those are the changes that we want made.

I consistently say, to the point where my colleagues must be sick of it by now, that we have to look at the three things together. We have to look at those who are providing the service who are struggling, who want to stay in the sector and who want to open additional rooms. We have to look at those who work in the sector. As already stated, there are people coming from abroad now to recruit our early years educators. We need to hang on to them and ensure they are valued. Then we have to look at the fees. It is often an obstacle for people returning to work, education or progressing in their jobs. Many of us will understand the constant struggle in trying to organise kids around work commitments. When someone has access to quality, affordable childcare, it is a total game-changer.

I am really glad to see how the debate has changed from when we first started discussing this issue in 2016. People really identify with those three aspects, and they do understand. For a long time, people only associated the issue with fees and parents. Of course it is an issue involving those two things. That is something I have been guilty of too because one often thinks simply of how one is going to get to work when actually we should think of the benefits for children from ECCE in things like school readiness and in the birth-to-three years age group there are the important things like play. There are so many benefits for children to which some speakers referred. It is important to remember that. I am glad people have started to understand the sector a bit better and to understand that the three things are really important: the providers, the workers and the fees.

I know we will not get the Government’s support, but I am glad that we have been able to have this debate. Our alternative budget is being launched this week. It will feature our proposals. Our full policy was launched in July 2022. It seeks to look after those three aspects. We have an opportunity now to ensure that this will be a really good sector. I do not want to see a situation where we cannot get staff because they have all gone away or that we are forcing so many women out of the workforce when we are in here on another day talking about how we need to promote women and ensure they can get back to work or, for example, enter politics. We must look after those three parts.

Amendment put.

In accordance with Standing Order 80(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday, 4 October 2023.

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