Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023

Vol. 1043 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Defence Forces

Matt Carthy

Ceist:

73. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence the establishment figure of the Reserve Defence Force and its current strength; the number of applicants in 2022 and 2023 and the number inducted; his proposals to introduce employment protection measures for Reserve Defence Force members who deploy on a voluntary basis in support of the Permanent Defence Force; and his proposals to reverse the downward trend in membership of the Reserve Defence Force. [42775/23]

Deputy Matt Carthy

Today, the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, was before the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. In outlining the changes that have occurred during this Government's time in office, one speaker said, "The only thing that really has changed is the strength of the organisation, and not for the better". Nowhere is that more true than in the numbers of members of our Reserve Defence Force. Will the Minister inform the House about his proposals to reverse the downward trend in the membership of the Reserve?

Minister for Defence (Deputy Micheál Martin)

The Reserve Defence Force, RDF, comprises the First Line Reserve, the Army Reserve and the Naval Service Reserve. The establishment of RDF is 4,069. This comprises 3,869 for the Army Reserve and 200 for the Naval Service Reserve. The strength of the RDF as of 31 August 2023 stood at 1,319 members in the Army Reserve; 81 members in the Naval Service Reserve; and 280 members of the First Line Reserve.

In 2022, a recruitment drive was advertised across a number of media channels. Recruit liaison officers across the Reserve conducted local recruitment to attract applicants for this campaign. Military authorities advised that 1,347 applications were received. I understand that a number of those applications remain active with inductions continuing.

In 2022, 90 RDF recruits were inducted into Army Reserve. A further 20 have been inducted so far this year, with 19 going into the Army Reserve and one into the Naval Reserve. While the low number of inductees to date leaves significant room for improvement, there is a concerted effort to deal with the remaining active applications. I have met the Chief of Staff and military management in respect of this, particularly with a view to removing hurdles and obstacles to recruiting people to the RDF. I was not happy with some of the procedures that were in place in previous years. The RDF recruitment campaign will recommence this month and will run for an initial period of two months.

The structure and strength of the RDF is a key focus of the Office of Reserve Affairs, ORA, which was established recently in line with a recommendation from the Commission on the Defence Forces report. That was a recommendation and it is has been implemented. The military authorities have advised that the immediate focus of the new office is on the development of a regeneration plan. They are also directing their attention to address any hurdles that limit the enlistment process in the Reserve, including examining upper recruitment and mandatory retirement ages.

On foot of the enactment of the Defence (Amendment) Act, enabling members of the Reserve to deploy on a voluntary basis, in support of the Permanent Defence Force, including deployments overseas, my officials commenced engagement with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment on the issue of employment protection measures for those RDF members so deployed.

Engagements on an informal basis have also taken place with representatives from ICTU and IBEC where useful exchanges of information have taken place. On foot of these engagements a number of potential courses of action remain under consideration.

It would be premature at this point to comment further given the ongoing work on this matter. I am pleased to note that for the first time, a member of the RDF has been deployed overseas on a voluntary basis in support of the Permanent Defence Force. I would like to assure the Deputy that it is my aim to ensure that the RDF and its regeneration remains a key goal of 2023 and beyond.

Deputy Matt Carthy

I think I heard the Tánaiste correctly when he outlined the figures indicating that so far this year there have been 20 new members of the Reserve. He said there is room for improvement. I would suggest that is the understatement of the year. The first problem we have, as we have with the Defence Forces overall, is that there is a retention crisis. It was put very eloquently at the committee today that we have to deal with the retention crisis in the Defence Forces as opposed to putting all efforts into a recruitment campaign, not to suggest the latter is not also needed. I recall in my youth, which I like to think was not that long ago, that in virtually every town and village on a particular evening of the week we would see a van pulling up with Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil, FCA personnel from across the local community. We do not see that any more because our Reserve Defence Force is essentially non-existent. If we are serious about addressing the recruitment and retention crisis within the Permanent Defence Force, surely we have to recognise that the Reserve is the best place to create new recruits. If we do not have a Reserve, the overall issues within our Permanent Defence Force will also be more difficult to address.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I agree with the absolute necessity of a strong Reserve force. There were 90 recruited in 2022. I am nine months in office and I made it clear earlier in the year that I was not happy with the rate of progress. When we consider that 1,000 had applied in the earlier recruitment process, the process of medical testing and so on was far too slow. I asked and instructed that this would change. Where we get such a significant interest, I have said to the military authorities there is a necessity to convert that into a higher number of recruits. I have met with the representative association for the Reserve. I think there is very significant potential there, as the Deputy has said, as a pipeline for further recruits, but also as a support in terms of new disciplines and areas that emerge in connection with new technologies and so forth. We should always be out there looking to use expertise in society. The RDF is a very effective way of harnessing such expertise for the benefit of our defence commitments.

Deputy Matt Carthy

There are huge swathes of the country now where there is no visible evidence of a Reserve being in place at all. That is systematic and I would argue it is getting to the point where it is existential in terms of the crisis that is being faced. The representative body the Tánaiste mentioned told a previous member of the Oireachtas committee that the next few years may see the last elements of the Reserve disappear completely unless we take fundamental action. One of those actions, of course, is the issue of employment protection for RDF members who deploy on a voluntary basis. The Tánaiste's answer is far too familiar and similar to other answers: it is with another Department, it is premature to start dealing with it. There is no sense of urgency at all on the issues that are affecting the Reserve. I am asking again if the Tánaiste will inject that badly needed sense of urgency into these matters.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is why we set up the office, specifically following the recommendation from the commission on the Defence Forces to establish an office of Reserve affairs. That was a recognition that over the years, the level of urgency and attention to this was not what it should have been. Early on, after I became Minister, I had a specific meeting on this issue. The office has been established and is developing a regeneration plan. I want action parallel with that plan also. Given that people have applied and want to participate, there is an onus to ensure that we can facilitate recruitment more effectively and more quickly than had been the case in the past. The establishment of the office is an important structural change that was not there before. That capacity was not there before. The office is developing a regeneration plan. They are also directing their attention to address any hurdles that limit the enlistment process in the Reserve, including examining upper recruitment and mandatory retirement ages. We are also working on enabling members of the Reserve to deploy on a voluntary basis, working with employers and unions in that respect. The Civil Service has separate circulars that can facilitate participation.

Defence Forces

Réada Cronin

Ceist:

74. Deputy Réada Cronin asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence if he will prioritise, as a matter of urgency, the retention of the fire station at the Curragh, its services being critical not only to our Defence Forces on-site, but also to the wider community, where frequently they are the sole fire service available, with such services being staffed and provided by highly skilled, committed, valuable personnel who need to be retained within our Defence Forces. [42776/23]

Deputy Réada Cronin

I would like to ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence if he will prioritise, as a matter of urgency, the retention of the fire station at the Curragh Camp, its services being critical not only to our Defence Forces on-site, but also to the wider community, where frequently they are the sole fire service available, with such services being staffed and provided by highly skilled, committed, valuable personnel who need to be retained within the Defence Forces.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. No proposals have been made to me in respect of the fire service in the Defence Forces Training Centre, DFTC, in the Curragh Camp and I have made no decision in relation to it. I just want to make that clear because I did hear of reports in August which were a surprise to me at the time. They were not brought to my attention in any formal way prior to that. Since then, the military authorities have confirmed that proposals on the fire service are under consideration and that no decision has been made in respect of them. I was surprised by the current narrative on the imminent closure of the DFTC fire station and I was not happy with that emerging in the manner in which it did. I can understand the frustration and anxiety caused to those members and their families by this narrative. I want to make it clear that no decision has been made and no formal proposal has yet been submitted.

The Deputy's broader question about its application to the wider community would need some discussion with the local authorities. I do not believe it is the role of the Defence Forces to be the fire service. Under the local authority, there are existing frameworks and structures to ensure adequate fire safety and cover. Of course, obviously, in any event we are there to supplement and support the civil fire service and to be of assistance but it should not be the only service.

Deputy Réada Cronin

I thank the Tánaiste for his answer although I am a little bit perturbed that this would - I know he was working overseas at the time but it is a bit perturbing----

Deputy Micheál Martin

Sorry?

Deputy Réada Cronin

It is a bit perturbing to hear that the first the Tánaiste heard about this was in the media. That is upsetting. I have met with a few of the families of the people who are working in the fire station there in the Curragh. Since I joined the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, I am really struck by the great sense of duty of the people who come in to talk to us, members of the Defence Forces. We had the Secretary General in last week and she was talking about the importance of retaining personnel with specific capabilities. That is exactly what these people are. I was talking to the wife of one of them recently. The Tánaiste might recall that there was a very bad fire in McDonald's in Newbridge about two months ago. There was also an accident on the road at the Curragh. The car overturned and a young woman would have been waiting two hours for help were it not for the local fire station. They are always available to the community as well when the Newbridge fire station is otherwise occupied.

Deputy Micheál Martin

My understanding is that it is part of the implementation of the working time directive. I have taken an initiative to accelerate work on the working time directive and in that context there were consultations with the representative associations by the military authorities. They indicated that they were reviewing current operational outputs and that the fire service in the Curragh camp was one of a number of areas under review. That was the context. Again, that review is not complete.

I have not received any recommendations and at this point no decisions have been made regarding the operation of the fire service at the Curragh Camp continuing, ending or whatever was reported. I hear what Deputy Cronin says and I assure her that I will give the matter the most comprehensive assessment in the event of the recommendations coming from the military authorities.

My view of the working time directive is that it is about health and safety. It is not about cutting services. It is about health and safety in the first instance. I stress that it is not the role of the Defence Forces to take over the role of the local authorities, which have responsibility for fire safety in the geographic area of Kildare County Council.

Deputy Réada Cronin

I agree.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I think Deputy Cronin would accept that too.

Deputy Réada Cronin

I accept that. The workers who work in the Curragh fire station are extremely experienced individuals. Munitions are also kept in the Curragh Camp in Kildare and it is important that we have a fire service there. I went to have a look at the facility. When you lose something like that, it is gone and it is hard to get it back. Apart from the monitoring of munitions, every six months these personnel also work overseas. They provide fire cover in locations where we are peacekeeping overseas. The service is very important. I would love if a decision could be made quickly and could be provided to me. I have no doubt that for the personnel working in the fire station for the Defence Forces in the Curragh Camp, it will not be a question of getting them to move somewhere else. If the fire station in the Curragh Camp closes, they are going to be leaving. We hear again and again at the defence committee about retention. I have referred to it in questions to the Tánaiste as well. Retention must be the first thing we address, apart from recruitment. Keeping who we have must be the first port of call. I would appreciate if the Tánaiste would let me know as soon as he has any information on that because families are very anxious about this.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I appreciate that. I also appreciate that the members concerned are anxious given the reviews that have been under way. I see the organisation of working time directive as a positive development, and one that I am very anxious to see brought to completion, in the interests of health and safety.

Deputy Réada Cronin

I would be delighted if that is the case.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I do not suggest that Deputy Cronin would not be. In terms of the fire service, of course we want to retain a multidisciplinary approach and to have various skill sets within the Defence Forces. All the local public representatives have been in touch. I understand there is a local context to this issue, and a family context to it in terms of the personnel and then there is the broader policy. I will revert back to the Deputy on it.

Question No. 75 taken with Written Answers.