Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023

Vol. 1043 No. 2

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Garda Representative Association, GRA, has started its protest against roster changes that are due to kick in from next month. This action sees gardaí refusing voluntary overtime. It is an escalation in a dispute that has deepened and intensified over the past year. It is very concerning that matters have come to this point. I have no doubt the public is very alarmed at this turn of events.

Morale within An Garda Síochána is at a really low ebb as members try to keep our communities safe at a time when policing resources have been significantly depleted. Garda numbers are falling as officers leave the ranks. Targets for recruitment are missed again and again because not enough people are attracted to a career in An Garda Síochána. It is a cycle created by more than a decade of underinvestment, under-resourcing and a lack of prioritisation from the Government. All of this has fostered a climate of real pressure and real stress.

Dialogue and negotiation, which were strained, have now collapsed and those at the table have stopped listening to each other. Distrust has set in, and this distrust is the greatest barrier to getting the right result in this situation. What we need now are calm heads and leadership. We need a Garda roster that works and will ensure the functioning of an effective, responsive police force that creates safe working conditions for front-line gardaí. Of course, for any Garda roster to work in these times, it has to take account of officers' family and caring responsibilities, the growing and understandable demand for greater work-life balance and the need to avoid burnout. I am certain these issues loom large for rank-and-file gardaí and they must also loom large for the Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Justice.

There needs to be a reset, a mending of relationships and trust, a repairing of communication and a real ambition to engage in good-faith negotiation. While operational matters are for the Garda Commissioner, it is also the responsibility of the Minister for Justice to provide leadership and a renewed impetus when a crisis point is reached. Clearly, we are at a crisis point. Standing back from the situation will not assist in achieving a successful resolution. We now need leadership. That includes an action plan from the Government to fix the crisis. We need the biggest ever Garda recruitment drive. We need to ensure we have the conditions to retain gardaí, which means getting rostering right and also getting resourcing right. One practical measure would be a doubling of the Garda training allowance to make training as a garda more affordable and more achievable for young people. I urge the Taoiseach to provide significant investment in next week's budget.

Le rannpháirtíocht agus ceannaireacht athnuaite, is féidir linn uainchláir an Gharda a shocrú a oibríonn. Ní féidir leis an Aire Dlí agus Cirt seasamh siar ón gcás. Caithfidh an tAire, an Teachta McEntee, agus an Rialtas a bheith dáiríre chun an t-easaontas seo a réiteach. With renewed engagement, dialogue and leadership, we can get a Garda roster that works. This is not a time for people to dig in and become entrenched. It is a time for renewed focus on solutions and progress. Will the Taoiseach update us on the Minister's plan to prevent further escalation of the dispute and to deliver a successful outcome? What is the Taoiseach's role in this Government plan?

The Taoiseach

I want to say once again that the Government supports the Garda and the essential work it does in keeping our communities safe and in keeping us safe. The Garda has a budget of more than €2 billion this year, the highest ever, being invested in pay, equipment and buildings. We anticipate between 700 and 800 new recruits this year in addition to 400 Garda staff.

We also understand how important the issue of rosters is. It is important to the public because citizens need to know that the gardaí are there when they need them. It is also important for the gardaí themselves in terms of work-life balance. That is essential in recruiting and retaining gardaí. The Garda Commissioner and the four staff associations all agree that a new roster is needed to fit the modern workforce and provide high-visibility policing and that is welcome. It is not sustainable that we continue with the roster that was relevant during Covid when the country was in and out of lockdown, nor does going back to the Westmanstown roster fit the needs of the Garda Síochána of today. As the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, said, the only way to resolve these differences is through talking and engagement. I am glad that a series of meetings is happening this week.

The Government remains committed to ensuring that An Garda Síochána has the resources it needs to fight crime and to keep us safe. I take the point the Deputy has made about the training allowance. Many gardaí trainees going into Templemore are older than they would have been in the past and often have qualifications already. When they go to Templemore, they can be down considerably in their income during that period, all the while having rent or mortgages to pay. I am aware the Ministers for Justice and Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform are working on that at the moment.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is fair to say that all of us across the House want to see this dispute resolved. It is unconscionable that we would have a further escalation in this dispute. It is clear that relationships have been strained and are very damaged. I appeal to all concerned to re-engage in a calm-headed way. Rostering must be resolved but either party digging in and being intemperate or immovable on this matter will assist absolutely nobody. I agree with the Taoiseach that in the final analysis it is the public who have a right to feel safe in their homes, on their streets and in their communities and who are most concerned by all of this and who must loom large for one and all.

I thank the Taoiseach for his response but could he be a bit more concrete on the proposed actions by the Minister and by Government to encourage, facilitate and ensure the kind of constructive, clear-headed engagement we all desire to see?

The Taoiseach

I largely agree with what the Deputy said earlier. We all want this dispute to be resolved. We all want a roster that works for citizens to make sure that gardaí are available when we need them, and also one that reflects the need to recruit and retain gardaí. This means a roster that recognises the need for work-life balance and the caring and family responsibilities. Disputes over rosters are always resolved in the end and I have no doubt that this dispute will be resolved. I hope it can be resolved without any further escalation. Meetings are happening this week. The Minister has encouraged all sides to engage and engage in good faith. She has done that consistently. It is not the role of Ministers to get involved directly in industrial relations disputes. That is not the way these things get solved but there is a process within An Garda Síochána to resolve disputes such as this internally. If needs be, the government offices of the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court can be made available.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Today, the criminal justice system has, effectively, collapsed under the Taoiseach's watch. Fine Gael has held the Department of Justice, in an unbroken manner, for 12 years. Today, the criminal courts are not sitting because criminal barristers have withdrawn their labour. This was notified to the Government on 12 July. Fine Gael has nobody else to blame because it holds the Ministry of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and the Ministry of Justice.

The Government was notified on 12 July that the courts would not sit on 3 October because of a dispute around barristers' pay. Going back to May, a sexual assault case almost collapsed because of the lack of a senior counsel. Why are the Government parties collectively bystanders as the criminal justice system falls, almost in its entirety, today ? What has the Government done since 12 July to try to resolve that dispute?

On the same day, the Garda Síochána is effectively working to rule. Gardaí will be doing it every Tuesday this month, including Hallowe'en. I do not have to tell the Taoiseach that if we go to any community meeting anywhere in Dublin or across the country and we tell them that there will be a restricted Garda service on the night of Hallowe'en, the communities would understandably be concerned about that. What has the Government done? What has the Minister done to ensure that this dispute can be resolved? She stated it is not under her jurisdiction; she cannot get involved. However, that is not so, because I took it upon myself, on behalf of the Labour Party, to write to the Policing Authority last week because Garda rostering is essentially an issue of managing and deploying Garda resources and, therefore, it falls under the remit of the authority. Under section 62H of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, "the Authority may do anything which it considers necessary or expedient to enable it to perform its functions ...". Under section 62O, "The Minister may request the Authority to prepare and submit to ... her a report in respect of any matter relating to policing services [including rosters], and the Authority shall comply with the request as soon as practicable after receiving it."

Criminal barristers are effectively on strike because the Government has done nothing since 12 July. The Policing Authority is effectively not being asked to have any view in the rostering dispute. This is completely and entirely the Taoiseach's fault. It cannot blame anybody else. What is the Taoiseach going to do about it?

The Taoiseach

On behalf of the Government, I want to say that we recognise the important and essential role played by barristers in undertaking criminal legal aid work and the Minister, Deputy McEntee, is currently engaged in discussions with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform on the issue of criminal legal aid fees as part of the budgetary process. Of course, the budget will be presented to the Dáil in a week.

The scheduling of court cases and the allocation of court business are matters for the presidents of the courts and the presiding judges, who are, under the Constitution, independent in the exercise of their judicial functions. However, I have been advised by the Courts Service that, in the absence of legal representatives for any reason, it is open to each court and judge to adjourn a matter until another date. Representation by barristers varies across court jurisdiction and law type and it is not possible for the Courts Service to tell us how many cases may be impacted today.

With regard to the Garda overtime ban, which is occurring this Tuesday, next Tuesday and the Tuesday after, it is important to say that it relates to voluntary overtime. The Garda Commissioner assures us that policing will remain adequate and sufficient across each Tuesday, including today.

On the Policing Authority, I will have to look at the legislation to which the Deputy referred. I am not sure if it is the case that the authority has a role to play in this. It is an oversight body. It is there to hold gardaí and Garda management to account. I am not sure if it is the appropriate body to get involved in a rostering dispute but I will certainly consider what the Deputy suggested.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Any community, barrister or garda will listen to what the Taoiseach has said and feel as if it is somebody else's responsibility, not the Taoiseach's. The Taoiseach knew about this dispute coming since 12 July and he has let the criminal courts of justice fall today. The Bar Council states it has had no engagement. It falls completely and utterly on the Taoiseach, as the leader of Fine Gael, which holds the Ministry for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and the Ministry for Justice, to do something about it because we could have the courts closed again next month.

On the Garda issue, the Policing Authority has an absolute role to play, but has the Minister even asked it? It appears that the Taoiseach wants to deflect and say that it is everybody else's fault, except his. Deputy Varadkar is the Taoiseach. Fine Gael has these Ministries under its jurisdiction. It feels as if the criminal system is collapsing on his watch but he feels it is somebody else's responsibility to sort it out.

The Taoiseach

I am informed by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, that the Policing Authority has said it does not have a role to play in rosters-----

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

The legislation say it has.

The Taoiseach

-----and I understand it said so as recently as its public meeting last week.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Did she ask it?

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Did she ask it?

The Taoiseach

On the barristers dispute, I do not think the criminal justice system is collapsing. This is a one-day withdrawal of labour. Barristers are protesting and they have every right to protest. We live in a democracy. I can understand the case they are making. Just like public servants and the vast majority of people across the public and private sector, they have seen their pay and fees restored but that has to be done by negotiation. It was always understood that it would have to be done as part of the budget for next year-----

Deputy Ged Nash

There is no process.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

There is no process.

The Taoiseach

----- and also as part of the discussions around reforms. When we reversed the fee cuts for GPs there were changes; there was loss of private income.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

It was done by negotiation.

The Taoiseach

That is the kind of debate that needs to happen.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

It was by negotiation. There is no process.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I return to a topic I raised with the Tánaiste here on Leaders Questions last May regarding the diagnoses and care pathways for patients with rare diseases. Despite their name, rare diseases are not rare at all. We all know someone with a rare disease. In Ireland, about one in 12 people are or, at some stage in their lives, will be affected by such a condition. This means that approximately 825,000 Irish people are impacted by a rare disease when family members, many of whom are carers, are included. The west and north west of Ireland has one of the highest incident rates of rare disease in Europe.

While most rare diseases appear early in life, with sadly about 30% of children passing away before their fifth birthday, many are not diagnosed until adulthood when it can take ten years to get a diagnosis. Over the interim years, incorrect diagnosis leads to expensive and often pointless medical interventions including psychological care on the assumption that the symptoms are all in their heads. In some instances there is inappropriate surgery.

There is nothing worse than being unwell and not believed even though you know there is something fundamentally wrong, except, of course, when it is your child who is unwell. Then you can be dismissed by the doctors as just an over-anxious parent. When patients are treated over the years for the wrong condition, it delays access to the appropriate care that could make a real difference to their quality of life or even their life expectancy. It also places huge, yet futile, costs on our health budget and denies other patients vital tests and treatments that could transform their care. That is why getting an accurate and timely diagnosis is so vital for children and adults with a rare disease. But Ireland has about half the number of people employed in core clinical genetic services when compared with our international peers. This results in a two-year waiting list for diagnostic services that can revolutionise care for patients and particularly children with rare conditions. This is in stark contrast with the three-month waiting list for the same genetic services in Northern Ireland.

To help address this situation, the Minister for Health allocated €2.7 million this year to commence the implementation of a national strategy for accelerating genetics and genomic medicine in Ireland. This was to invest in the establishment of a national office for genetics and genomics and to appoint 16 staff to build capacity in the field of genomics within our health service. But we are now informed that some of these posts have not even been advertised because of the HSE moratorium on recruitment. Obtaining the diagnosis is a long and tortuous journey. It is wasteful of resources in our health service if they are not targeted properly. I ask the Taoiseach to personally intervene to address this deplorable situation which is compounding the cost overruns in our health service.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is absolutely right. Rare diseases are not that rare and that is certainly the case if one puts them all together. It includes diseases such as cystic fibrosis, haemophilia and muscular dystrophy. Often it is a delayed or missed diagnosis and the sooner patients can get a diagnosis the better for everyone; not only themselves but the wider health service.

As the Deputy knows, we have a five-year national strategy in relation to genomic resources and rare diseases.

Some €2.7 million has been allocated for the implementation of this strategy in its first year and that includes the establishment of a new national genetics and genomics office. I understand that recruitment of some positions has been affected by the agreed controls on recruitment of management and administration grades. I am advised that recruitment should now progress in the near future and I will make further inquiries in that regard. I should say that to help meet existing demand, specialist roles have been allocated to the following locations: six genetic counsellors to Beaumont Hospital; for HSE west and north west, that is Galway University Hospital, there is a campaign under way; for Children's Health Ireland the post is advertised; for Dublin midlands, which is St. James's Hospital and St. Vincent's University Hospital, the job specification is in development; for the south west, which would be based in Cork, the post is progressing; and for HSE mid-west, which would be based in Limerick, again that post is progressing.

Deputy Denis Naughten

Even after the tortuous road to diagnosis, patients in many instances have to educate the doctors who are treating them. That is because the expertise does not exist in Ireland for many of the conditions, due to their rarity. To address this, the EU cross-border directive mandated the establishment of the EU reference network to link rare disease clinicians right across the EU. Irish doctors participate in 18 of these 24 networks. To ensure our continued participation in the existing networks as well as the six remaining networks, we need to modernise our patient registers and establish electronic patient records. This will allow our patients to access the latest research and drug trials and assist in policy development. As the Taoiseach knows, the electronic health record programme has been paused until the new children's hospital health record programme is implemented. This seriously threatens patients' access to these vital EU networks and our participation in the emerging European health data space being developed at EU level.

The Taoiseach

As I said earlier, rare diseases taken all together are not that rare but some rare diseases are very rare. When we have conditions that are one in a million or one in 5 million, it is not possible for us to treat those patients on our own; we have to co-operate internationally and particularly at European level. We definitely need better patient registers. There are many conditions for which we do not have a list of all the patients who have the condition. That makes research in particular very difficult. That is not dependent on there being electronic health records. There were national patient registers long before there were electronic records but obviously one would help the other. I do not know the detail as to where that is at the moment. I think there is a requirement for specific legislation in relation to that. I will ask the Minister for Health to come back to Deputy Naughten with a more detailed reply.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Táim ag díriú isteach ar chathair na Gaillimhe agus ar Chontae na Gaillimhe agus an ghéarchéim thithíochta atá ann, in ainneoin gur bunaíodh tascfhórsa in 2019. In ainneoin sin, níl aon tuarascáil chríochnúil againn fós ó thaobh anailíse de agus tá an ghéarchéim thithíochta ag éirí i bhfad níos measa. I ndáiríre, cuireann sé an spotsolas ar pholasaí an Rialtais. Tá teipthe aige go huile agus go hiomlán ó thaobh tithíocht a sholáthar.

I am going back to Galway city and county in respect of the housing crisis. It is a microcosm of what is happening in the country and brings into acute focus the utter failure of housing policy year after year and Government after Government. In 2019, a task force was set up in Galway city and county, prior to Covid and the war in Ukraine, because there was a crisis. Galway City Council and the county had utterly failed to build one single public house from 2009 onwards in Galway city. That was directly related to Government policy. I say this in the context of our former city manager telling us in February of this year, five years after the task force, that Galway City Council will not be able to meet its social housing needs. I say this in light of the European Commission telling us the shortage of social housing has created long waiting lists, resulted in over-reliance in short-term supplement solutions and contributed to a steep increase in homelessness.

We have 12,691 people homeless. That is a 752.41% increase since 2012. Some 279 of them are in Galway city and county. I raise this because, foolishly, I put a little faith in the task force that was set up. It has, however, simply become another layer of the establishment and another layer of administration that has proceeded for five years to get more and more presentations. Today, I got the report for 2022, last year, ten months later. It proceeds to tell me that Galway city built very few houses, but even the ones that were built are at odds with the figures from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I will go by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which tells us that at the end of 2022, we had built 26 houses in total by direct build in Galway city. In the county, we had built, in total, 150.

Other figures are given in the report from the task force, which again brings into acute focus the messing around and complete obfuscation in relation to figures. When we talk about the provision of social housing, we include just about everything under that umbrella, from long-term leasing to other arrangements. What I am asking the Taoiseach is to take a hands-on approach in relation to Galway city and county where the housing crisis is worse than in Dublin. We have pockets of land with no overall master plan. All of the segments - Ceannt Station, the docks, Dyke Road and Sandy Road - are all working separately and without a plan for the common good.

The Taoiseach

I am afraid I do not have those figures available to me at the moment, so it is impossible for me to comment on them. I know Deputy Connolly has raised the housing task force for Galway city and county before. When we calculate how much social housing is being provided, we need to recognise that there are many different ways in which social housing can be built and provided. I do not mean the housing assistance payment, HAP, and the rental accommodation scheme, RAS; I mean social housing where somebody has a long-term tenancy and the security of a roof over their head. Sometimes it is houses and apartments built directly by local authorities. At other times it is through approved housing bodies. That is particularly the case in my constituency. Sometimes they are purchased on the market. Sometimes they are leased long term. Increasingly now, they are being constructed by the Land Development Agency. As somebody who has had the privilege of attending the opening of many of these developments and seeing people getting their keys and moving into these homes, they are not particularly concerned about what mechanism is used. What they want to know is that they are getting a house with a long-term lease that gives them security and a roof over their head. We should always bear that in mind.

Today, the Cabinet approved the publication of the new planning and development Bill, one which I recommend to the House. We believe that will help a lot. A huge number of housing developments get held up in the planning system and then in the courts. This comprehensive reform of our planning legislation will mean more developments getting through planning quicker, whether it is social housing or private housing, and that can help to alleviate the housing crisis.

When it comes to social housing in the round, last year more social housing was provided than in any year since the 1970s and we anticipate an even higher figure again this year. We will not know that figure until some time next year, but we anticipate an even higher figure again this year, which is welcome.

Again, there are some very encouraging signs on home ownership. About 700 individuals and couples are getting mortgage approval for their first home every week. That is the highest we have seen since the Celtic tiger period. Some 400 or 500 individuals and couples are purchasing their first home every week. I wish we had seen that sooner but it is really good to see it happening now.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I remind myself daily of the salary I am earning and the privilege it is to stand here but it is increasingly difficult to listen to the narrative from the Taoiseach and the Government. Could they please let language mean something? I return to that theme over and over. There is no difficulty with these figures. This is the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage telling us that 26 houses were directly built by the city council in one year, and I gave the other figure for the county council. There are no HAP properties available in Galway city. That was the only game in town in my time as a councillor, and it remains so. There is not one single house available within the HAP rates or the discretionary rates.

There is a capacity problem at county and city council level because successive Governments have failed to resource them. They have no capacity. I have quoted the former city manager, who told the Government he will not meet the targets. Let us stop the doublespeak and gobbledygook about housing and realise that the Government must, through the local authorities, build public housing on public land. Let us look at Galway city as an example of what can be done with a master plan for the common good. On the docklands there are acres. Does the Taoiseach know what we are going to do there? We are going to build premium housing, not public housing because that is not good for the docklands area. That is not good for the ethos of the Government.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy. What we are doing, and what the Deputy has recommended that we do, we are doing all over the country, namely, building public housing on public land. We are building public housing on private land and buying private housing to use as public housing. We are doing all of those things. Look at the census figures for the past ten years. The percentage of people who live in and benefit from social housing has gone up, not down. About 40,000 more families live in social housing now than was the case ten years ago. Last year was a record year in terms of the provision of new social housing. We are determined to make sure that this year is the same again.