Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate – Dáil Éireann (33rd Dáil) – Thursday, 5 Oct 2023

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Family Law Cases

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I raise this issue again on the basis of its seriousness and the severe impact it has on those whom I call the victims, and indeed are the victims, of the situation that prevails in family law. I welcome that the Minister for Justice has set out her intention to bring about reform in this area and that reform is scheduled for the end of the year. However, the situation is so serious that it is ever-present in everybody's mind, especially the minds of those who are affected in a negative and hurtful way when children are forcefully deprived of the advantage of meeting one or either parent. This affects mothers to the greatest extent, but there are also some men who are deprived of meeting their children in the ordinary course of events.

Despite the law having sufficient powers at its disposal to deal with it in another way, the application of parental alienation continues because it is convenient and easy and has worked. The outcome in every case can be predicted. Once this pseudo-condition is applied to a particular case, there can be only one winner and the winner will comply with the parameters of the alleged condition. I ask that at this stage every effort be made to bring about a situation, if necessary, in which we look into the operational conditions of family law cases where there is no agreement and people find themselves at loggerheads in relation to visitation. There should be an interim arrangement whereby some independent body could look into the matter as it prevails and report quickly before the end of the year, in this particular session, in an effort to try to avert the hardship, worry and psychological damage being done to both parents and children while this continues to operate.

Alternatively, I ask whether it is possible to set aside the in camera rule so the world can observe what is happening in these kinds of situations and set about making an amendment - an emergency intervention - to ensure this particular situation is not allowed to continue. Consider the damage being done to families, especially young children who cry for their parent, be that the mother or father, and who hope this torture will come to an end. They look to adults, which we all are, to ascertain the extent to which something can be done to alleviate the pain, mental agony and torture they are experiencing and to which there is no end in sight for at this stage. While it is welcome that efforts are going to be made to deal with the situation by the end of the year, six months is a long time for children. I ask that we try to address this issue in the most serious way in order to alleviate that hardship.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)

I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important issue. I convey the apologies of my colleague, the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, who cannot be here. I am grateful to have the opportunity to provide clarity on some of the issues raised.

I must obviously clarify that the management of the courts, operational matters and logistical functions are the responsibility of the Judiciary and Courts Service. The conduct of individual cases is a matter for individual judges, who are independent in exercising their functions under the Courts Service Act 1998, and given the separation of powers in the Constitution. Neither I nor any other Member of this House can comment on an individual case or category of cases in that way.

The very first contribution I made to this House was on family law cases, the conduct of section 47 assessments in particular, and on ensuring section 47 assessors were trained in questions of coercive behaviour for parents generally and manipulative behaviours of any kind. I think that was the subject of my maiden contribution. I have seen for many years in court processes generally the difficulty that custody and access cases can bring to people's lives and can have for children especially. Understanding all the different influences that bear on this matter is an important part of that. I, like many Deputies, have worked with women and men alike who experience great difficulty in the courts system and have experienced the weaponisation, in part, of the court processes as a continuation of some other dispute or some other abuse between partners, male, female and of all different kinds. It is very important to say that.

As the Deputy is aware, the Department of Justice committed to undertake a public consultation and independent research on the topic of parental alienation as part of the Justice Plan 2022. The findings of both were analysed and arising from this, officials from the Department developed a policy paper on how to address the issue. Both the research report and the policy paper have now been published on the Department's website. Both recognise that parental alienation is a highly contested and divisive concept. There is little concrete information on the exact extent of accusations.

The Deputy stated we should remove the in camera rule. There is, however, a major issue of privacy for individuals, families and, most important, children when something of that nature is done. The Department of Justice would say the question of parental alienation appears to arise in custody and access disputes in particular and also in cases where allegations of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence feature. That is why I say that, irrespective of the terms, manipulative behaviours of any kind are what are of concern, as is the weaponisation by any party of a family law process that would harm children or continue to harm children or parents in any way. That is why I suggested section 47 assessors, and any other assessors used by the courts, must be trained and equipped to spot any such behaviours that can create particular difficulties.

The Department of Justice is leading an ambitious programme of family justice reform, including the publication of the Family Justice Strategy 2022-2025 and the Family Courts Bill 2022. The strategy puts children at the centre of the system and emphasises, among other things, the need to ensure they are listened to and heard and their views given due regard, in line with their constitutional rights. The strategy contains an action, under the goal of supporting children, to examine the role of expert reports, including, as I said, section 47 and section 32 reports in the family law process. This is absolutely critical. That action has been prioritised and will look at the commissioning and availability of these reports, their content and use, the way in which they are brought about and the registration and other requirements of the various professionals providing these services. It is to be published at the end of this year, which is not far off at this point, although I appreciate we would all like things done much more quickly.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State for her reply and obvious understanding of the situation, for which we are all grateful. My reason for bringing this matter up again is, as I said before, that the torture continues unabated. The sad part of this is the so-called expert witnesses, whose expertise has been commented upon by a Supreme Court judge in the recent past. The comment was to the effect that such witnesses have almost taken over the power of the courts and that their recommendation is unchallengeable, in many cases, while going through the system. They cannot be challenged or cross-questioned by an opposing counsel. They are given free rein to do as they wish, vindictive or otherwise, and remain unchallenged still.

Delay of any nature in a situation like this is a sad reflection on us in this House. I am not putting blame on anybody but it is a sad reflection of the system that we cannot take an emergency measure to put an end to it, even temporarily, in order to introduce the legislation that will ultimately be necessary.

I thank the Minister of State again for coming into the House and for her knowledge of the subject, as well as the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to bring this matter up again. It is of huge importance to the families affected. As I said, it is generally women and the most appalling cases have been brought to my attention, whereby people, including children, are being punished indefinitely for being in a situation over which they have no control. It is as if there was an objective to continue with this course in order to affect them in a negative way forever. It is appalling that we cannot bring it to a halt.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I will say, very carefully, that I understand this pressure and the issue well as a consequence of my work as a Deputy, but also due to some background work I have done. I would be very careful to describe it in terms of gender or a particular experience, so I will remove myself from that conversation and simply speak to the process.

It is intolerable that voice of children is not accurately heard in any court process, when they have the constitutional right, which this House supported, to have their voice heard. In any family breakdown situation of any kind the most important thing is protecting the children and their well-being. The concept of the State's courts processes being used by any party in a family law dispute, whether between men and women, men and men, or women or women, against a partner to achieve his or her own personal objectives is wrong. The State has to guard and protect against that and the courts processes have to be particularly careful to guard against it. That is why it is so important to really understand section 47 and section 32 reports. If the courts are going to place weight on them, and it has been obvious in cases that they have done so, then it is important that those reports are created in a way that the courts would be happy to stand over and that we, as legislators, would be happy to stand over. For that reason, it is important that the working group established by the Department of Justice has looked at this and other issues.

I recall the former Deputy, Alan Shatter, when he was Minister for Justice and Equality, had similar concerns regarding the conduct of custody and access cases and the need to make sure that children were always prioritised at the centre of family law cases. Later this year a working group will be established to review the effectiveness of the current arrangements for hearing the voice of the child in private family law cases and we will hear a great deal more about it there.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Minister of State for being here and for dealing so authoritatively with that particular matter, which I suspect Deputy Durkan will raise again, if necessary. The second matter I have selected is from Deputy Flaherty, who wishes to discuss the appointment of a replacement nurse at St. Christopher's school in County Longford.

Special Educational Needs

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter and I thank the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth for coming to the Chamber to deal with it.

I understand that St. Christopher's special school in Longford town has formally applied to appoint a new school nurse on an increased weekly contract of 32 hours. At the moment, the role is contracted for just 14 hours per week, meaning that the school only has access to a nurse for three hours a day from Monday to Wednesday, and for two and a half hours on Thursday and Friday. It is very evident that this is a high-risk situation and has clear health and safety implications for some of our most vulnerable school-going children, while also putting extreme and unnecessary pressure on the staff.

A total of 14 hours simply is not adequate to meet the complex medical needs of the pupils attending this school. There are currently seven classes in the school and pupils have varying degrees of complex medical needs. Indeed, the profile of the pupils attending St. Christopher's has changed significantly in recent years. More than half the pupils at the school now have complex medical and care needs. At present, there are 12 pupils attending the school with a diagnosis of epilepsy who are prescribed emergency rescue medication. Two pupils have refractory epilepsy and may continue to seize on and off throughout the day. They require close monitoring and recording of vital signs. One pupil has a PEG in situ and requires bolus feeds throughout the school day. This is a time-consuming procedure that can take up to 45 minutes per day. This particular pupil, with whom I am very familiar, is a very lovable young child who is also a wheelchair user, is non-verbal and has a profound intellectual disability. The pupil has limited head, neck and body control and must be seated in a correct, upright position and remain in same for one hour, post feed, to ensure there is no risk of aspiration. A second pupil is due to have a PEG inserted in the near future, due to difficulties administering medication. Four pupils have severe allergies and are prescribed emergency medication in the event of a reaction. A further three pupils have asthma, one of whom requires a daily inhaler in school. There is always a risk that this pupil could have an asthma attack at any time during the day. Due to swallowing difficulties, there is a serious risk of choking among some pupils. Two pupils have very specific cardiac issues. Care plans are required for all students in recognition of their complex medical needs. Most pupils also have mobility issues and visual impairment and are at constant risk of falls. There are currently seven wheelchair users attending the school and up to ten pupils are hoisted in the school three to four times per day. Manual handling assessments are required for each pupil and this task is carried out by the nurse.

I am sure the Minister will agree that a nurse is best placed to decide if emergency medication needs to be administered and is also best qualified to monitor a pupil following a seizure or an allergic reaction. Due to the number of pupils with medical needs a large volume of paperwork, including emergency care plans and risk assessments, needs to be updated on a regular basis. Due to the demands on the school nurse while on the school grounds, it is simply impossible to get all of this administrative work done in a timely and efficient manner. I would go so far as to say that all of the nurses who were in this post previously voiced concerns about the role and the stress and pressure they were under. At the moment, the school is actually without a nurse, as the most recent incumbent resigned her position and has taken up a new post. We wish her well but it is an extremely high-risk situation for the school. The school wants to fill the post as soon as possible, but more importantly, it wants to fill it at 32 hours. I am particularly worried by the delay in approving the 32-hour role. It has gone to senior management in CHO 8 for a decision and I urge the Minister to take a hands-on role and ensure that this situation is remedied. The high-risk situation must be alleviated in this school, which is extremely close to the hearts of the people of Longford.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy for raising this very important matter and I thank the Minister for being here to deal with it.

Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Roderic O'Gorman)

I join the Ceann Comhairle in thanking Deputy Flaherty for raising this important issue. He has given us a real sense of the great work done at St. Christopher's and the real challenges that the staff there face in dealing with very vulnerable students with complex needs.

Both myself and the Minister of State at my Department, Deputy Rabbitte, are fully committed to the development and enhancement of children’s disability services, and to ensure access for all children with complex needs across the country. This includes all appropriate therapies and respite services, including in-school nursing supports. Following discussions with An Taoiseach and Ministers in 2022 regarding the priority requirement to reinstate the health and social care supports that were historically provided in some special schools in the State, it was agreed that funding would be provided for an additional 136 posts to progress this requirement. It was agreed that the special school-based services must be aligned with the existing children’s disability network teams, CDNTs. Having listened to the ongoing concerns of parents of children with complex needs who attend special schools, and mindful of this Government’s priority to deliver comprehensive on-site health and social supports to special schools, the HSE was requested to commence the process of allocating further staffing resources to these schools.

The local CDNT continues to provide support to St. Christopher’s special school within the resources available to the team. Service delivery is based on prioritised clinical needs and available resources. However, as we all recognise, the HSE and the various lead agencies are experiencing ongoing challenges recruiting staff across a range of disciplines and grades to fully staff each team to maximum capacity. These challenges are reflective of the issues affecting the wider health and social care sector and are very much the focus of the Progressing Disability Services, PDS, roadmap that myself and Deputy Rabbitte are working on in conjunction with the HSE. Since St. Christopher’s reopened, the CDNT has provided occupational therapy and physiotherapy supports, both in terms of direct hours of support to the school and indirect tasks linked to supporting children to access their educational placement. These hours are reflective of the prioritised needs of the children currently but will vary from week to week, and month to month.

As part of a Government initiative to enhance supports in special schools, all CHOs received an allocation of senior health and social care posts. The posts in CHO 8 were distributed across 14 special schools. St Christopher's received an allocation of one post and this has just been filled, with a new post holder due to commence in early October.

Specifically in respect of the nursing post, we have requested information from the HSE on the proposed extension from 14 to 32 hours. Unfortunately, because we are dealing with Topical Issues much earlier than anticipated today, I do not have a response for the Deputy right now but as soon as it comes in, I will send it on to him. I am sorry that I do not have it here now but it is just a matter of timing.

On the wider issues, while the recruitment challenges are there and do make things difficult, I want to reiterate my full commitment, and that of the Department and the HSE, to pursuing every avenue to ensure access and availability of appropriate respite and therapies for children with disabilities in Longford and across the wider CHO 8 area.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I acknowledge the Minister's detailed response. However, it is disappointing that the HSE has not responded. While I appreciate that we are taking the matter at an earlier time, I cannot underline enough the seriousness of the situation. There are 40 pupils in the school and there are parents, families and staff who are deeply concerned. I am not overdramatising the situation but clearly it is high risk. As I said, these are some of our most vulnerable people and it behoves us as Members of this House to ensure this situation is remedied. I know the Minister will take a personal interest and I hope it can be resolved in the coming days.

Whilst I have time, the floor and the ear of the Minister, I also want to raise the issue of the staff at St. Christopher's. They are tireless people who have worked time and again. They are section 39 workers who have probably been derided and punished for being section 39 workers for many years. They are on a payscale which dates back to 2021 and, even at that, their pay is significantly off the HSE scale. Unions announced at the end of July that the matter could only be resolved by a sustained campaign of industrial action. The situation has gone on for far too long. These staff, because of poor pay and heavy workloads, are becoming demoralised. They are looking at other job opportunities, particularly in the HSE. That is very unfortunate for the people of Longford because we greatly value St. Christopher's and we are very proud of it. We are also exceptionally proud and supportive of the staff. In addition, during the pandemic there was an expectation that the workers and day and night staff at St. Christopher's would qualify for the essential front-line staff €1,000 bonus. That has not happened. Understandably, it is a further bone of contention for staff. I have seen, first hand, the commitment, absolute passion and dedication of the section 39 staff at St. Christopher's. It is regrettable that they felt they had to take the decision to take strike action.

I have applauded the Minister's enthusiasm for this sector at every opportunity, and I know full well the immense work he is doing. There have been many notable achievements in his time in office to date. I ask him to redouble efforts to assist the workers at St. Christopher's and their colleagues across the country to ensure we reach an agreement on their pay dispute, and also address the long-outstanding Covid bonus payment for them.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

On the first point, I do not think the Deputy has in any way overdramatised the challenges faced by staff in St. Christopher's in terms of the complexity of the health and social care needs of the students in that school, including those who have epilepsy, those who use wheelchairs, those with intellectual disabilities, the student who needs to be PEG fed and the various additional supports needed there. We will get that information about the HSE processing of the request for the additional hours to the Deputy as soon as we receive it.

On the broader issue of section 39 workers, and indeed section 56 workers who also fall within the remit of my Department, we all want to see a resolution to this industrial dispute before a strike occurs. We all recognise the invaluable work that section 39 and section 56 workers do. An industrial relations process over the summer resulted in an offer from the Government of 5% from now, 3% of which will be backdated, and discussions on a future link with the wider public sector pay deal. Unions did not accept that offer. I recognise that but it is still on the table. I think it is important that we get unions back into a process. I know there were engagements earlier this week - on Tuesday, I think - between officials and my Department. I understand there are more planned for next week. I know that a long-standing issue here has been the break of any sort of linkage between this set of workers doing the same work as public sector workers but not being paid the same. I understand that long before my time and, indeed, before the economic crisis, there was a link of some element. I can absolutely understand why that is something the workers are calling to be rejoined to some extent.

Youth Services

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The Finglas Youth Resource Centre has been a force in the Finglas area for almost 20 years, during which time the centre has been empowering young people in the Finglas community by giving them opportunities to learn and grow as valued members of the community. The centre provides young people aged between ten and 25 with a safe and welcoming space where they have opportunities to grow and be themselves, allow them to grow in confidence, reach their potential and build on their own individual strengths. It is a registered charity and is fully compliant with the Charities Regulator's governance code. The centre is primarily funded through the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth's service, UBU Your Place Your Space. The centre aims to deliver outcomes for young people guided by the UBU service requirements. It receives some funding from Léargas and other agencies which goes towards the delivery of target-based programmes, including youth exchanges and residentials.

There is no doubt about the commitment of those who work for the centre. This is more than just a job for them. It is almost a vocation for many who work in such youth services. They are passionate about providing young people with the skills and opportunities to become positive citizens in the community. Each year, the Finglas Youth Resource Centre has been given a service requirement from the Department, which sets for the resource centre a service target of a maximum of 200 people under three target groups based on the specific electoral districts. There are over 12,000 children and young people under the age of 24 living in these electoral districts. Each of these districts have areas that range from quite low on deprivation scores to disadvantaged to very disadvantaged. It is well recognised that some of these areas contain some of the most disadvantaged electoral divisions in north Dublin.

Research and engagement with the various stakeholders consulted for the overall area of Finglas helped to identify a number of issues from which the centre sets its various targets. The first targeted group is young people who are experiencing intergenerational economic, cultural and educational disadvantage. A second target group consists of young people experiencing issues relating to their general mental health, including anxiety, trauma and stress, and those at risk of bullying. A third target group is young people with additional needs relating to inclusivity. A fourth target group relates to young people affected by issues linked to substance misuse by family members, personal drug use, drug dealing and drug deaths. The final group is young people aged 16 to 24 who are not involved in education.

For 2024, this is all now being condensed into three target groups addressing the same issues and needs. Since the economic downturn of 2008, funding has not been restored. In 2007, the centre received an overall allocation of €662,827. Sixteen years later, its allocation was €628,506. The centre has also lost staff due to the lack of proper funding. For example, it no longer has a youth service manager or administrator. The centre is down on five full-time positions. This is leading to people taking on roles and extra work, which is greatly affecting the well-being of the staff and the proper functioning of the centre. The centre has long waiting lists and the staff are trying to cope with the volume of young people who need the services of the centre. While they were required to work with 200 young people, they in fact worked with more than 550 young people. This centre needs to be properly resourced and funded. It is hugely successful centre and an invaluable resource for the youth of Finglas.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. As he is aware, we had a very enjoyable day at the centre about a year ago with the Deputy, other Deputies from the area and my colleague, Caroline Conroy, who was Lord Mayor of Dublin at the time. During my time as Minister, there have been significant increases in the level of investment in the youth sector. It is an area I have prioritised. Between 2021 and 2023, current Exchequer funding for youth services and programmes increased from €61.7 million to €72.9 million, or 18% across that three-year period.

The majority of the funding goes to UBU services, which is a youth funding scheme that targets disadvantaged young people with evidence-informed interventions and services that secure good outcomes. The overall allocation for UBU Your Place Your Space is over €46 million this year. Through UBU, my Department provides significant funding to the Finglas Youth Resource Centre. In 2023, €628,506 was provided to the Finglas Youth Resource Centre in UBU funding. In 2021, it was €572,944. That is a €56,000 increase over the last three years during my term of office. I know it could do more if it got more but it is a noticeable increase across that three-year period.

My Department also provided funding from the Dormant Accounts Fund of €37,061 to the Finglas Youth Resource Centre through the targeted youth employability support initiative. This was provided to engage and support the harder-to-reach young people aged 15 to 24 years not currently in employment, education or training. This was provided on a once-off basis in 2022 and it was clear at the time that it was a once-off payment. I saw the benefits of that particular programme when I visited the Finglas Youth Resource Centre. The mainstreaming of that programme is part of my budget 2024 ask and negotiations on that are ongoing. I can say no more about that at this point.

To speak to the wider issue, outside of the direct funding provided to Finglas Youth Resource Centre, funding of €13 million was made available to the 30 national and major regional voluntary organisations through the youth services grant scheme. The continued funding of voluntary youth organisations through the scheme is intended to ensure the emergence, promotion, growth and development of youth organisations with distinctive philosophies. My Department also provides funding of just over €1.5 million to youth information centres nationally. The purpose of these centres is to provide young people with access to information on rights, opportunities, benefits, health, welfare and other matters. I have initiated a reform of the youth service grant scheme and have commissioned research to inform plans to modernise youth information funding. It is important to say that this is the first time either of these two areas have been significantly reformed. In addition, €2.5 million has been allocated to volunteer-led youth work activities, supported through the local youth club grant scheme.

My Department provides funding to all 16 education and training boards around the country to support youth services in their area. They funnel the majority of the funding that comes to my Department. The Deputy made the point that area profiles are done to look at the particular needs and services that are funded are asked to support those needs in particular areas. I would absolutely like to see more investment in youth services, from the very specific targeted services like the Finglas Youth Resource Centre to those more generalised universal-type services. They do amazing work and can be life-changing for young people. I secured significant investments in the first and second years of me being in this Department. It was less last year for various reasons. We cannot do everything or all we want every single year but the funding of youth services is high in my mind in my budget 2024 negotiations.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The Minister's Department funds youth work to the tune of €72.9 million nationally, as he said. I understand that. The National Youth Council of Ireland, the people who advocate policy for young people at national level, is calling for €9.4 million to be invested in the youth work sector. It is proposing that €7.3 million of this additional funding go to various current schemes already in place and €2.1 million to universal youth work, to bring this in line with increases elsewhere in the sector. I am sure the Minister is aware of that. The Finglas Youth Resource Centre would hopefully receive an adequate portion of that funding if the Minister would look at it. I know he has increased the funding over the last two years but going back to 2007, the funding the youth resource centre was getting was higher. It is not even near that at the moment. We need to bear that in mind. While the Minister has made progress and increased funding in the last two years, it is no way near what it was in 2007. We have had inflation, food poverty, utility costs and the cost of living. Everything has gone up.

In 2007, the youth resource centre had 14 full-time posts. It now has nine full-time posts with people fulfilling large roles. Some people are going way beyond what they should be doing. They are doubling up and doing things. It does not make sense. This resource centre is so important. If we did not have the volunteers and the people doing the extra work, I shudder to think how things would go because there is no doubt that it would have a huge effect. I am asking that the Minister look at this. I know he gave some money towards helping some projects but they are not always permanent and are not pencilled in. We need to pencil in more money for that youth resource centre and for people to run it and the full-time jobs that are required.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I met the National Youth Council of Ireland and we discussed its budget submission. I met it individually and also as part of a much wider annual forum we have with those in the youth sector to discuss challenges including funding and recruitment. We discuss the range of challenges they have but also the amazing work they do. The Deputy is absolutely right that the youth sector bore a very disproportionate share of cuts during the economic recession and has been playing catch-up for a long time. It is not fully caught up yet but I have been able to do a significant amount over the last three years. In every budget, I endeavour to do more because this is a sector that is close to my own heart and I will be doing my best this year. The Deputy knows the range of my Department. We were discussing disabilities a moment ago and I was discussing childcare with some of his colleagues earlier. There is a range of very real needs across my Department but I see the importance of youth work. I see its importance for young people. I see the great work the workers the Deputy spoke about do in their individual communities in supporting young people, in diverting them through very real interventions, sometimes in crisis situations where young people are really at risk of being dragged into addiction or criminality or might suffer significant mental health situations. We want to continue to resource that and my Department will continue to support organisations like this and others all over the country.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Thursday, 5 Oct 2023