Vol. 1043 No. 7
4. Deputy Ged Nash asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he plans to expand the critical skills occupations list to address skills and labour shortages in the construction industry, especially in view of demand in the area of residential construction; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44370/23]
Ministers are acutely aware of the impact that labour shortages and skills gaps in the construction are having on the ability of the Government to meet its own modest targets for residential construction. Does the Minister intend to review and expand the critical skills list in terms of craftspeople, the provision of additional skills and addressing those gaps for the construction industry?
We are in the process of looking at that right now. The construction sector has been the subject of reviews in recent years. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage is part of the discussions with my Department to try to get right the critical skills list, which is about to be updated. We have taken the view that many of the skills in construction, from engineering to architecture to quantity surveying, and highly skilled tradespeople have been facilitated in terms of work permits. However, a general labourer, for example, on site, has not been on the critical skills list because the view was there was potential to fill those vacancies from Ireland or other parts of the EU and Single Market. We have to make sure we use all the skills we have in Ireland and across the EU first before bringing in people from other parts of the world. I think that is reasonable. We also have to anticipate where the shortages will be to facilitate housing output at the scale needed. We hope next year to go well beyond 30,000 houses being completed. To do that, we need people on building sites. We also need to move towards more modern methods of construction, which may not require as many people on site. The Department is putting quite a lot of funding and policy effort into delivering that.
As I said to Deputy O'Donoghue earlier, we hope to finalise next month the process of reviewing the critical skills list.
We went through a consultation process during the summer and received submissions. The relevant Departments are now discussing the appropriate changes that we should make. That will be done in a few weeks' time.
That is welcome information. At a committee meeting during the summer, I believe the Minister told my colleague, Senator Sherlock, that the review was under way. The figures are stark. I am looking at the October 2022 national skills bulletin from SOLAS, which identified a particular need for plumbers, carpenters, welders, computer numerical control, CNC, programmers, and electricians. These trades are not on the critical skills list. Will the Minister confirm that some of them will be included on the list consequent to the review? I assume that discussions have taken place with the relevant trade unions. That would be important.
The number of permits in the construction sector has been increasing in recent years. Most of the areas currently subject to critical skills permits are on the professional side - for example, architects and engineers - but there is an obvious need for skilled crafts people. I hope that we will see the Minister’s acknowledgement of this in the review’s output.
I will set out changes that we have made in response to some of the pressures the Deputy outlined. For example, the quota restriction on permits for bricklayers and plasterers, which was first introduced as part of a package in 2019, was eliminated in June 2022, giving those occupations unrestricted access to the general employment permit system. In October of the previous year, a package of occupations were made eligible, including tilers, painters and decorators. We respond each year. Each summer, we effectively go through a consultation process and try to respond afterwards. Of the 100 written submissions to the consultation process, 15 came from the construction sector. That says a great deal about the pressure therein.
All I will say is that we will respond. Obviously, I do not want to give the Deputy an indication because the process has not concluded.
That is okay.
I do not have a recommendation on my desk yet, but when I do, we will take decisions quickly because many businesses are waiting on them.
I understand the point the Minister made in his initial contribution that we must first look to our EU partners and the capacity of skilled individuals across the Union to fill our gaps. Something we could do quickly would be to agree that apprentices should not be paid any less than the national minimum wage.
We have an SEO in construction and some of these issues could be usefully discussed in the context of SEOs and the general collective bargaining system across construction. Some of the indications I am getting from trade unions about the small number of young people coming through wet trade apprenticeships are frightening and stark. We need to address this issue. One way of doing so would be for the Administration and us as a society to decide that the apprenticeship model should change. I suggest that the Minister work with and get the advice of the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, on reviewing rates for apprentices in the wet trades.
The Minister, Deputy Harris, is doing a great deal of work on apprenticeships and dramatically increasing numbers, but the Deputy is right in that there are certain trades where the numbers are not increasing to the extent required. We need to examine how to achieve that. We believe there will be an extra 9,000 apprentices this year. That was the target for the end of 2025 but will probably be met this year. As such, there is an appetite. We need to change the approach to apprenticeships generally in the Irish economy and make them a feature across all sectors and trades as opposed to just construction or related industries.
This issue is feeding into our considerations in the short term as to what decision we will make around facilitating skills coming into Ireland through the work permit system. We live in a Single Market with 460 million people and there are many skills across that market. We need to ensure that we explore options within our own Union before we facilitate more skills coming from other parts of the world. This Government has shown itself to be open to bringing in skills from across the world. Ireland is one of the few countries that sees inward migration as a positive thing in terms of economic growth and development. We have the economic statistics to prove that is the right decision.
5. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason he has referred the Industrial Relations (Provisions in Respect of Pension Entitlements of Retired Workers) Bill 2021 to the Department of Social Protection, despite it being within his remit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44424/23]
Will the Minister of State outline clearly the reason for referring the Industrial Relations (Provisions in Respect of Pension Entitlements of Retired Workers) Bill 2021 to the Department of Social Protection despite it falling within his own Department’s remit? The purpose of the Bill, which was before the House on Second Stage in June 2021, is to give retired workers a voice and representation in matters affecting their pensions.
I appreciate the opportunity to address this question. In April when the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and I met the Deputy and representatives to discuss her Bill, the representatives of various retired persons associations expressed their concerns about the protections in place for people who were already in receipt of pensions. At that meeting, I was informed that these representatives had not yet had any contact with the Department of Social Protection, which has policy responsibility for pensions policy. Therefore, the Minister contacted the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, about the pensions issues raised at the meeting and then wrote to her and requested that her officials consider arranging a meeting about them. Given that the proposed meeting was to have been between the Deputy's group and the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, I am unsure as to whether it has taken place.
Regarding the Bill, I would like to be clear that I did not refer it to the Department of Social Protection. In any case, it remains my view and that of my Department, as discussed at our meeting, that the Bill is fundamentally misconceived in that it is proposed that, in addition to employers and workers, a third category of "retired persons" would have access to industrial relations bodies. Our policy is clear in that industrial relations are a matter for people who are active in the workplace. I am not aware of any other country where retired persons have access to industrial relations bodies.
To underline the point, the Bill has not been referred to the Department of Social Protection. That Department was merely brought into the conversation.
I do not know what "brought into the conversation” means. I asked the Minister of State to explain what was happening clearly. I received a letter stating that the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, had been asked by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to consider the Bill. When we met him, the Minister of State told me and the retired workers clearly that he did not have a rational objection to the core principle of the Bill. Neither in the Dáil nor at the committee was the Government able to answer compelling cases made by retired workers for this Bill. In the two years since the Bill was debated, the Government has not produced a single alternative proposal as it said it would. We held a public consultation that overwhelmingly favoured the Bill passing into law, yet nothing was done. The Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Coveney, met the workers and promised to produce a proposal, but nothing has been done for two years essentially. The Government is listening to the employer organisations and senior civil servants, who have advised it to stonewall and kick to touch, and nothing is being done. All the while, back bench Government Deputies who are being lobbied on this matter tell retired workers’ representatives and the 500,000 people they represent that they agree with the Bill’s principle. Will the Minister of State please explain this?
The Deputy raised a couple of points. As she knows from the previous times this matter was raised, progressing the Bill is a matter for her. The Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment met in public session in January to conduct detailed scrutiny of the Bill. Following that meeting, our Department issued a detailed brief to the committee, as requested, and nothing further has come from the committee.
We did not commit to producing an alternative at the meeting. I am sure the minutes and records of the meeting will show that. We said that we would look into the matter and engage with the Department of Social Protection, as laid out by the workers in that engagement.
Our concerns with the Bill are clear and have been stated actively. The trade union movement is not looking for this Bill. Bringing in retired people to negotiate terms is not something that is done in any other jurisdiction and is not something that we are prepared to support. That is the fact of the matter.
It is appropriate for the Department of Social Protection, as per the conversation at the meeting, to be asked for its opinion. Can the Deputy tell me whether the requested meeting has taken place or the representatives have engaged to arrange such a meeting?
As far as I am concerned, the Minister of State is giving an inaccurate reflection of the meeting’s content. The retired workers he met were representing 500,000 pensioners who used to work in the Civil Service and the wider public sector and who built up this State.
It has happened in the past that changes to their pension pot have been negotiated for the benefit of employers and unions. The trade union movement is not objecting to this Bill passing the various stages. The Bill is imminently sensible and belongs in the Minister of State's Department. It involves amendments to the Industrial Relations Acts and not to social protection legislation so there is absolutely no coherent reason for it to be passed to the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, for her to deal with. When the Bill passed Second Stage here, the Minister of State's Government amended the motion to say it would be deemed to be read a second time within a year, which would have brought us to June 2022. It is now October 2023. People get older and their pension pots decrease and all the while a simple amendment is needed to a provision that now gives them the right to go to the Workplace Relations Commission within six months of retirement. All this Bill does is extend that provision to cover any period in which their pension is interfered with. It gives them a voice and a say in what goes on without having to put up pickets, demand an end to this, that or the other or to take part in other industrial action. It gives them a voice.
I will underline that this has not been kicked to the Department of Social Protection. The Deputy has now made that accusation a second time when I have clearly said that has not happened. We are dealing with a pensions issue. While it is of course under the remit of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment as the Deputy's Bill involves an amendment to the Industrial Relations Acts, when it comes to pensions, it is only sensible to engage with the Department of Social Protection, as was discussed at that meeting. The workers' and retired persons' representatives the Deputy brought in agreed to that sensible option. I do not know if that meeting with the Department of Social Protection has taken place but I would encourage that and I encourage those representations. I am completely empathetic and sympathetic to the case before us but I am also aware of and very clear on the industrial relations negotiation mechanisms we have in this State. If the Deputy believes this Bill in its entirety is exactly what needs to be progressed, it is well within her remit to progress it through this House. That is her responsibility, as we have told her in response to oral parliamentary questions and during Questions on Policy or Legislation at least three if not four times since I came into this office. We will of course continue to keep an open mind and look at these issues as widely as possible but I fundamentally believe that involving the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is sensible where we are dealing with pensions, although the Bill has not been referred to her in any way.
It has been kicked into touch. The Government amended the motion to stop it being passed that day.
The Deputy is misrepresenting things. That is unfair.
6. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will consider expanding the range of financial supports currently available under the local enterprise offices nationally to include domestically focused retail, personal services, professional services and construction services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44427/23]
Táim ag fiosrú mar gheall ar an slí inar féidir tacaíocht a thabhairt do chomhlachtaí beaga atá ag freastal ar phobail áitiúla. Will the Minister consider expanding the range of financial supports available to a wide range of small retail and other domestically focused businesses that are serving markets and people with a range of services locally?
I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It is something that gets raised with me all of the time. The Government recognises that domestically traded sectors account for a significant number of firms in Ireland and, more importantly, for a high proportion of employment across the retail, construction, hospitality, leisure, and many other sectors. They contribute to the economies and social fabric of towns and villages across Ireland and help create jobs in every single region. Government policy has ensured a competitive business environment for all firms based on a world-class economic infrastructure, a competitive tax regime, supports for start-ups, scaling, and investment, and strong institutions that provide access to skills and research and development.
To further improve our assistance for businesses, as part of budget 2024, the Government announced a new national enterprise hub. This will have a dedicated website and phone line with a hub adviser to help businesses to access State supports. Any business, including those referenced in the Deputy's question, can call it for direct help in navigating the comprehensive suite of supports that are on offer to business throughout Ireland.
Since their establishment in 2014, the local enterprise offices, LEOs, have acted as a first-stop shop for providing advice and guidance, financial assistance and other supports to those wishing to start or grow their own businesses. The LEOs have dramatically expanded their reach over the past number of years and the White Paper on Enterprise sets out a pathway for the LEOs to enhance their advisory services for these domestically traded sectors through the training, development and mentoring supports that are available to all enterprises. Furthermore, the local enterprise offices can help small businesses to improve productivity and reduce energy use and carbon emissions through the digital start and energy efficiency grant schemes. However, there are significant challenges to providing direct grant supports to domestically trading firms. These include the need to avoid excessive displacement or funding activity that would have taken place anyway and ensuring that we do not raise barriers to entry for entrepreneurs and new firms by supporting incumbents, thereby reducing competition and innovation for consumers. In the budget that was agreed just this week, we have set aside almost €10 million extra for the local enterprise office network so that these offices can support as broad a range of businesses as possible.
I acknowledge the work of the LEOs and of an t-údarás in supporting local businesses, whether through training courses on starting your own business and the mentoring the Minister outlined or through various other advice and support services. However, many of these smaller businesses face issues. For example, Conor wanted to have a three-phase power supply installed in a workshop. A panel beater serving a local community needed a paint shop. A hairdresser and beauty salon needed to get a lot of capital equipment to get up and running in the beginning. These businesses face capital costs. They are ratepayers and provide services locally to a huge community. Supporting them with capital equipment to get them up and running is very important. The advice is useful but it is also about help in dealing with initial and ongoing costs. Has the Minister looked at ways of supporting businesses in that regard? I acknowledge the new national hub and the funding the Minister has outlined. Will that funding be steered towards those kinds of needs to support those kinds of companies in getting operational?
We hope we will be able to support many of those kinds of companies in moving to new digital platforms and new online sales processes. These are the kinds of things for which we can potentially give grant aid. In the latest round of the online retail scheme, 98 retailers received €2.3 million in funding, with 79% of successful applicant companies based outside of Dublin. There are schemes available but we have to be careful about looking for local enterprise offices to give grant aid to businesses that are competing with other businesses locally. If you give grant aid to one local manufacturing facility to upgrade, you have to give it to everybody. Otherwise, you generate unfair competition through the use of State supports. We are trying to do strategic things such as helping companies to reduce their energy bills through decarbonisation or to become more efficient through the use of new digital platforms. We have to be careful not to give unfair competitive advantage to one local business over another local business by giving grant aid to one and not the other. There are some restrictions but I assure the Deputy that there are plenty of ways in which local enterprise offices can support local businesses of all types.
I thank the Minister for the overview. I acknowledge the support that will be available for online retail stores. However, many of these businesses serve customers locally and there is very little of an online nature to them. They deal with people one to one. It is good to have such services available and it is very important to get them up and running. The panel beater depends on his own skills but this includes his personal skills in winning over customers. It is similar with the beautician and hairdresser. It is the people on the ground that we need to support. We need to make capital funding available to them to get them set up and running. It should be remembered that, if they were larger-scale businesses, they would be able to access many other sources of funding. It is because they are smaller, with only four or five or even just one single person involved, that they are caught. If they were larger manufacturing businesses, the Minister would be satisfied to support them.
First, Enterprise Ireland's remit has expanded from the end of last year. Until the end of last year, LEOs were only able to support and work with businesses that employed less than ten people. That figure has been increased to less than 50 people for companies that are manufacturing and exporting. If this is an exporting company, we can provide supports because it does not create potential displacement in local economies. There are companies that are not, for example, interested in moving to online trading platforms and so on, which there is grant aid support for. I accept there are some businesses that do not want to do that. They are focusing on local clients. There are areas where they can get help too; for example, energy-efficiency grants.
We now have a single portal - supportingsmes.gov.ie - where a person involved with an SME can access different areas of support such as mentoring, advice, grant aid, decarbonisation, digitalisation or other levels of supports. There is a lot more clarity there now for companies. We are going to improve that even further in terms of improved single communication so that businesses can get the information they need. There are a lot of small businesses out there that do not even know that there are supports available for them because they do not think they are in the right category or whatever. One will find that most businesses can get some support through their LEO.
7. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the details of any review carried out by his Department with regard to removing dental nurses from the ineligible list of occupations for employment permits; his plans to review same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44204/23]
Baineann mo cheist le haltraí fiaclóireachta agus go háirithe maidir le haon dul chun cinn atá déanta ó thaobh na bpost seo a bhaint ó liosta na bpost neamhcháilithe. My question relates to dental nurses. I ask for the results of any review carried out by the Minister of State's Department with a view to removing dental nurses from the ineligible occupations list, and the plans to review that.
As the Deputy knows, we in the Department are well aware of how important the work permit system is to both businesses and Irish consumers. As the Deputy would have heard in debates earlier this morning, over 40,000 work permits were allocated last year. This year, the number will be around 38,000 for people outside the EEA. With full employment and more people at work than ever before, this obviously has huge benefits but it is also really important for businesses and consumers. In the healthcare sector, we have seen a huge amount of people come over, including over 5,000 nurses from outside the EEA as well as care assistants, doctors and much more.
What we are hearing from business is that it needs more occupations to be added to both the eligible and critical skills lists, making them eligible for permits. In response to this, as the Deputy has already heard, this summer the Department opened a review of the occupations eligible for work permits, in terms of both eligible and critical skills. The review closed in August, and given the demand for permits, we received over 100 submissions. This was over ten times what was received in previous reviews. I can confirm that there was a submission on dental nurses, and this is being reviewed in this light. The Irish Dental Association has also requested to meet with me. This has not yet taken place, and no direct meetings have taken place with any bodies due to the sheer volume of submissions received. As the Deputy might be aware, the Irish Dental Association is located in my constituency. I drive past its office quite regularly, so I am keen to have that meeting where we can facilitate it. Given the large quantities received, it is taking officials some time to work through all of these submissions.
Submissions to the review are considered by the interdepartmental group on economic migration policy, with membership drawn from key Departments including the Department of Health, which may provide observations. Our Department is actively engaging with other Departments, including the Department of Health, to consider submissions to the latest public consultation, which has concluded. The report containing recommendations for our consideration is expected in mid-November, and then we will be in a position to announce what changes are being made to the list. In short, we have received that submission. We are considering it at the moment, and we will announce it in mid-November.
I thank the Minister of State for confirming that the decision is to be made in November. At least we have the time span. Looking at the background to this - and it has been brought to my attention by someone who wants to come into the country - I will say at the outset that we should not have let this crisis happen in the first place. We should have had enough graduates of our own and we should have dealt with this before. We are now at this point in our lives.
In March 2022, Irish Dental Association research showed that at least 500 dentists were needed across the public and private sectors at that point. Two thirds of dentist vacancies were left unfulfilled in 2022. It was pointed out, as we know, that staffing shortages are having an impact on patient access to dental care. Two thirds of practices said that their capacity to treat emergency appointments had reduced over the past year. Research from this year highlighted that we are short of dentists, dental nurses and hygienists, pointed out that there is a lack of graduates, and recommended work change permits and so on. The research is there for us all to see, and it has been there for some years.
I acknowledge that every sector of the economy is having difficulties when it comes to labour. It is very difficult to say that this should not have been allowed to happen. It is a result of the fact that we have the fastest growing economy in the EU. We have the largest number of people at work in the history of the State, and we effectively have full employment. It is the mark of a successful economy and society when people want to move there and people are needed to move there to fill jobs of all sorts, be it dental nurses, as the Deputy has raised this morning, those in the construction industry, as raised by Deputy Nash, or those in the hospitality and agriculture sectors, as raised by Deputy O'Donoghue. We see this with economies around the world. We all know that a lot of people did not want to come to Ireland for a long time. It is a great thing when people come and contribute to our economy and society. As I said, there were 40,000 work permit approvals last year, double what it was the previous year, and it will be the same again this year.
I agree with the Deputy. We will have to develop the courses available for people to upskill, reskill and enter into these professions from the outset. As a country, we are growing. Our population is much higher now than it has been in a long time, and that requires more people for various sectors. Not all of those can be brought about domestically. We need, and will continue to need, to bring people in from outside the EEA but also 30,000 came last year from within the EU, and 4,500 from the UK through the common travel area. These are all good things. I would not necessarily say it is a crisis that they are having to come.
I would say it is a crisis because we know that in Galway, for example, we are getting phone calls regarding dentists being unavailable under the medical card scheme. There are any number of complications from the absence of dentists.
I understand that the review takes place every single year. The answer to the last question I had was regarding the review in 2020. We have had 2021 and 2022, and now we are in 2023. This crisis - the absence of dentists, dental nurses and hygienists - has existed and has been going on for a number of years. I hope the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, does not pass the Irish Dental Association office much longer and that he meets with them. I appreciate his positive response today but on a general basis, this did not happen overnight. It is not just that we have full employment now. This has been going on and there has been a failure to deal with it. The Irish Dental Association has highlighted it for a long time. I hope the Minister of State has that meeting as soon as possible.
I am committed to having those meetings when it is appropriate to do so. We have to conclude the review and look through the data. The last time this review was done, we received ten or 11 submissions. This time it has been multiples of that. That just shows where we have gone. Last year, 40,000 work permits were handed out. The number handed out the previous year was 19,000, and the number handed out prior to that - due to the Covid-19 pandemic - was 5,000. There has not been a consistent call for the last five years to add this. It has really accelerated in every occupation over the last couple of years, including dental nursing. We constantly engage. As the Minister, Deputy Coveney, laid out, there have been requests over the last couple of years to increase quotas for special sectors. We saw it with regard to people working as linemen. Very recently we saw it in the meat processing industry, and we see it in lots of different sectors. We are always open and reactive to the needs not just of industry but also of society and the sectoral Government Departments, such as, in this case, the Department of Health. I hope I can come back into this Chamber with the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, in four or five weeks to give a full update on the review.
8. Deputy James Lawless asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment his proposals for an artificial intelligence advisory council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44173/23]
12. Deputy Willie O'Dea asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment for a progress report on the national artificial intelligence strategy.. [44169/23]
I want to ask about the plans for an artificial intelligence, AI, advisory council. I know there is an AI ambassador, Dr. Patricia Scanlon, already in place and she is doing good work. I understand, however, it is planned to roll out a council of sorts, and I wonder where progress is on that issue.
Tógfaidh mé Ceisteanna Uimh. 8 agus 12 le chéile.
Chun tacaíocht a thabhairt don straitéis náisiúnta um intleacht shaorga, táim ag moladh go mbunófar comhairle um intleacht shaorga.
It is proposed that the AI advisory council will provide independent expert guidance to the Government on AI policy, with a specific focus on building public trust and promoting the development of trustworthy, person-centred AI. Its first role will be providing expert guidance, insights and recommendations in response to specific requests from the Government. Its second role will be developing and delivering its own work plan of advice to the Government on issues relating to AI policy and providing insights on trends, opportunities and challenges. Its third role will be engaging in public communications aimed at demystifying and promoting trustworthy, ethical and person-centred AI.
The AI advisory council will be a mechanism for expert advice. It will not be a consultative or representative forum. Therefore, its members will represent themselves as individuals with relevant experience and expertise and not their employers or organisations of which they may be members. Since we asked for applications, we have received several hundred expressions of interest, which is a testament to the level of expertise in this overall area that Ireland enjoys. We are currently processing all the expressions of interest with a view to making announcements in the coming weeks.
The establishment of the council will further support the implementation of what is recommended in National AI strategy: AI – Here for Good. I published a progress report on this national strategy in August . It highlighted many of the achievements so far, including: the appointment of an AI ambassador, Dr. Patricia Scanlon, and the completion of her first year in the role; the establishment of an enterprise digital advisory forum; publishing, along with the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, the National Standards Authority of Ireland's AI Standards & Assurance Roadmap; and the establishment of Ireland's European digital innovation hub for AI, CeADAR.
Priorities for the year ahead include supporting businesses, enterprise and workers with AI adoption, as well as upskilling, reskilling and adapting. The AI innovation hub will have a key role in this space. My Department will work closely with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform on principles and guidelines for the use of AI in the public sector. Regulation is an enormous part of our approach, and influencing the regulation of AI in Ireland and internationally, particularly the development of the EU AI Act, is another of my priorities. The EU AI Act sets out harmonised rules for the development, placement on the market and use of AI systems within the Union. The proposed regulation aims to ensure the protection of fundamental rights and user safety, as well as trust in the development and uptake of AI, thereby enhancing EU investment and innovation.
My officials are also actively involved in negotiations on the Council of Europe legal convention on AI. Together, the work of the EU and Council of Europe are guardrails that will ensure trust in AI and in turn support ongoing, responsible innovation in this area.
I thank the Minister of State for that. I commend the work done to date. I acknowledged the Minister of State's report in August and, as has been mentioned, the appointment a year previously of Dr. Scanlon. The State is ahead of the pack, which I am very glad to see. It befits our status as a digital employer and digital hub for so many multinationals and, indeed, indigenous companies that are very advanced in the technology space.
We see inconsistencies in the approaches around the world, from Italy's ban on ChatGPT initially to other more sophisticated engagements. Several firms have prohibited the use of ChatGPT and AI tools for public-facing and client-facing documents. I am not sure whether the Civil Service or the public service have adopted such a code. One of the security concerns around the technology is that, notwithstanding the usefulness of the tools, information submitted to a chat agent or AI agent can then become part of the wider thread of knowledge. In some cases, information submitted may be sensitive, and having it in the wider domain may not be desirable. Others may draw it down inadvertently but this is one of the reasons we need to put advisory steps and guidelines in place. Perhaps the Minister of State will advise us on whether the public service has adopted a code of conduct or guidelines. That would be helpful to know.
I thank the Deputy. We are working with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and particularly with the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, on principles and guidelines on the use of AI in the public service. It is something we are very conscious of and we want to ensure that we do it correctly. Our whole approach to AI is to ensure it is person centred. Public service staff engage with people every day, so the core approach will be to ensure AI is person centred and used with the best values of the citizen at its heart. That is our approach in the public service and our approach to AI generally.
So often with technology and advancements and innovation of any kind, we see potential conflicts between private interests and the public good. In some cases, corporations are racing ahead with their developments and laboratories. We also see some founding fathers of the technology taking a step back from it. It was well documented over the summer that a couple of early AI adopters and researchers stood back and were concerned about the pace of AI's development.
We should embrace AI. It is very positive and the direction of travel is good. Change is positive, keeps us on our toes and helps us to advance as a society, but with checks and balances in place. The public good has to be front and centre in this regard. Could the Minister of State advise us whether the budget we just had contained new measures in this space or new forms of assistance or resources for meeting our goals?
The Minister of State mentioned the EU AI Act and said he is working closely with colleagues in Europe on it. When does he expect it to be adopted? What is the position on the regulation? If the Minister of State has time, he might advise me on that as well.
On the AI Act, we are continuing the trilogue process at European level. My officials are engaging extensively in this process and it is continuing apace. The Spanish Presidency, which concludes in December, has indicated that the legislation is a priority for it. There is still much work to be done and we are continuing to lead out on that.
On resources, the Minister has directed, since he came to the Department, the establishment of a new unit within the Department to examine digital technology, AI and future technologies. That unit is up and running and working incredibly hard in this space. The advisory council will be supported by that unit. The council is being put together to collate the many different perspectives on AI. It is important that we have the best experts advising the Government in this space to capture all the various perspectives but also to allow us to make decisions based on the best and most up-to-date expertise that is relevant to development and, most important, the citizen.
9. Deputy Robert Troy asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will consider introducing an export credit guarantee scheme to support companies looking to increase their international trading opportunities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44194/23]
I am asking this question in place of my colleague, Deputy Troy. Has an export credit guarantee scheme been considered? If the Minister introduced such a scheme, it would provide great support to companies that are seeking to increase international trading opportunities. It would be very welcome and of great assistance.
I welcome to the Gallery the young person who is cheering us on up there. Their father is desperately walking around trying to keep them quiet.
I thank the Deputy for the question. My Department regularly explores ways to assist businesses and create an environment that stimulates their growth. However, it is important that Government intervention be focused on those areas where there is genuinely a market failure. My Department, working with Enterprise Ireland offers a range of supports for exporting businesses, such as training, in-market support and trade missions. My Department has also developed several schemes, working through the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland. These provide financing support for businesses, including exporting businesses, and they include the Ukraine guarantee scheme, on the basis of which the Government takes some of the risk, and the growth and sustainability loan scheme, which we launched recently.
Export credit insurance is available from the private market. In early 2020, in the context of the major disruptions to global trade and supply chains in the early stages of the spread of Covid, my Department completed an assessment of the need for State-supported export credit insurance. The assessment found that Irish insurers, as subsidiaries or branches of international insurer groups, are financially strong and did not need to be financially supported by the Government intervention during the pandemic.
My Department has continued to monitor the export credit insurance market. In 2021, with the assistance of an external export credit insurance expert, it conducted an internal review to assess the potential need for a State-backed export credit insurance scheme. This review involved engagement with trade credit insurers, industry and other relevant stakeholders, such as Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland. Following these consultations and on reviewing Ireland's strong trade export statistics over the past ten years, it was again found that there was no clear demand or need for State intervention in terms of export credit insurance.
Exports and international trade will remain central to Ireland’s growth model and economic strategy in the years to come.
I thank the Minister and take his response in good faith. I note the Department's research. Its view is that it is not necessary. If that is the case, I take it in good faith. However, it surprised me to learn that Ireland is one of only two EU countries that do not have an export credit guarantee scheme in place. It has been said to me and to Deputy Troy, who tabled this question and who published an article about the topic, that we have tried to boost and support indigenous firms in the export space. I am well aware of the position in my constituency. The Kildare local enterprise office, LEO, and Kildare Chamber of Commerce did great work in that area. I am supportive of them.
I heard what the Minister said about there being no evidence of market failure. If that is the case, it is good news. There may not be market failure, but I sometimes see a gap between employers and companies that are clients of Enterprise Ireland and those who engage with the LEOs. Somewhere in the middle there is a space where companies are too large to work with a LEO but perhaps not big enough to work with Enterprise Ireland. They can sometimes fall into a void. Sometimes those companies say they would like to get into the export space a little further and expand their offerings for good reasons but perhaps struggle to do. Some additional supports may be of assistance to them.
The Deputy might remember, although it seems like a long time ago, that Ireland was in the space of export credit insurance in the past. Following the beef tribunal report, the then Government essentially decided to phase it out. Based on the findings of a review carried out later, the then Tánaiste, Mary Harney, concluded that the insurance exposure levels imposed on the State were disproportionate to the benefit they might give to exporters. As a result, the scheme was suspended after 1998.
That said, we have to have an open mind about this in the future, For example, if Irish companies are exporting to Ukraine in a post-conflict environment and there are risks the State needs to think about in the context of facilitating exporters to a market that may be deemed to be riskier than others. we need to keep an open mind and we will. At the moment, however, Ireland's export trade statistics are strong. Last year, for the first time, we passed the €1 trillion mark in our international trade statistics on importing and exporting goods and services. That is an extraordinary figure. We need to keep this under review. The Deputy is correct that the vast majority of EU member states have export credit schemes. I will keep an open mind on the matter.
I again thank the Minister. I accept his answer.
It is interesting that 1998 is the year it ceased. I vaguely remember that. I was not involved in politics at the time obviously, but I have read about the beef tribunal and so forth. I was aware there were issues around that. However, 1998 is a long time ago. It is before the Good Friday Agreement was signed and before there was an internet or social media. Francis Fukuyama told us it was the end of history and that western liberal democracy had triumphed. Unfortunately, we are still working on that. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since and the environment we are trading in may be more volatile and may continue to grow in volatility vis-à-vis what might have expected to mature and settle at that time. I will leave it there. I thank the Minister for his response. I also thank Deputy Troy for raising the issue and for his work in this space in the past.
As I said, we have a policy on enterprise that sets an ambition of expanding Ireland's exporting base by an additional 2,000 companies before the end of this decade. We have, as I stated earlier, extended the mandate of the LEOs. We are trying to get more companies to scale up. Basically, we are trying to build multinationals out of Ireland, as well as to bring multinationals to Ireland from abroad. That relies on healthy trade growth, entering new markets and more diversification in a post-Brexit environment, for example, to other parts of the EU and the world, in order that we will not be overly reliant on one market. This all means that we have to constantly rethink how we can support companies to export and help them to de-risk when they are expanding, growing and investing in their potential. Export credit insurance has to be part of that discussion. The last review we did of this, which was detailed, suggested that there was no market failure. However, that does not mean we should not have an open mind in the future, and we will.
10. Deputy Maurice Quinlivan asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on the progression of the introduction of a living wage, as committed to in the programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44415/23]
My question relates to the Government's commitment to introduce a real living wage as outlined in the programme for Government. This must be a priority. Ensuring that people are paid a living wage is crucial to the well-being of our citizens and to the overall health of the economy. Low-paid workers are often the backbone of our society, performing essential roles in various sectors, especially retail, health and social care. The living wage is accepted to be the minimum amount acceptable for a decent standard of living. It is a wage that grants earners the opportunity of having a socially affordable standard of living. They deserve to earn a wage that enables them to meet their basic needs and live with dignity.
I thank Deputy Quinlivan for asking this well-timed question. I am extremely supportive of the living wage. It is part of our commitment to making work pay and supporting workers. As the Deputy correctly stated, the low-paid workers in our society are facing the same increases in the cost of living as the rest of us. They see their energy bills rising and are faced with childcare costs, rent and mortgages. We are proud to support to support these workers.
The first step towards reaching a living wage was the 80 cent increase to the national minimum wage on 1 January 2023, bringing it to €11.30 per hour. This will be followed by a €1.40 increase to the national minimum wage which was announced as part of the budget earlier this week. This significant increase will come into force on 1 January 2024 and will increase the minimum wage to €12.70 per hour.
The Low Pay Commission estimated that the €1.40 increase in the 2024 national minimum wage announced earlier this week will bring the minimum wage to 55.1% of median hourly wages. The Low Pay Commission will continue to make annual recommendations on the appropriate rate of the national minimum wage and the increases required so that by 2026 the minimum wage will reach the target of 60% of hourly median wages. The increase in the 2024 national minimum wage of €1.40, or 12.4%, is significant. Coupled with changes in income tax and the universal social charge announced in budget 2024, it shows the Government’s commitment to protecting and improving the incomes of low-paid workers.
Though the move to the living wage is a more recent decision, my party has increased the minimum wage ten times while in government. When we entered government in 2011, the minimum wage stood at €7.65 per hour. That it will become €12.70 in January 2024 is proof in the pudding that we truly believe in this. Once the 60% threshold is reached, the Low Pay Commission will assess the impact of the progression to the 60% target and then advise on the practicalities of gradually increasing the targeted threshold rate towards 66% of the hourly median wage.
I thank the Minister of State. Even if the median earnings calculation is reached in 2026, as stated by the Minister, Deputy Coveney, on budget day, it will not be delivered in the lifetime of the Government. As I said, a living wage will provide for basic needs, not wants. It is unlike the national minimum wage, which is not based on the cost of living. By implementing a minimum wage of €14.80 per hour, as recommended by the living wage technical group, we would not only improve the lives of many workers but also send a powerful message that we value their contributions and are committed to reducing income inequality. Such an amount would allow people to live with a level of dignity that a lower wage simply does not offer. To put this in context, at least 671,000 people live in poverty, according to Social Justice Ireland, and many of those are in the workforce.
It is true that implementing a living wage will come with some financial challenges, especially for businesses, some of whom may need temporary and limited Government support to deliver a living wage. However, the long-term benefits would far outweigh the initial costs. A real living wage would reduce the strain on our social welfare system and stimulate local economies by increasing consumer spending. It would also contribute to a fairer and more inclusive society.
The Government has flagged its aim to reach the living wage by 2026. There is no electoral context. It is not linked to the lifetime of the Government. We are moving steadily towards it. Will Deputy Quinlivan clarify whether it is still Sinn Féin's position that 60% of the median wage, moving towards 66%, is a living wage, as was the general consensus, or has it changed? It is important that this is done in a phased and calculated manner. It is good for workers, but it also reflects the fact that this requires serious buy-in from employers of all sizes. We want to do this in a way that does not impact drastically on inflation and that is sustainable for workers and employers alike.
We are doing that and are making very substantial moves through the recommendations of the Low Pay Commission and I believe we will be well on course to reach that target by 2026, as has been set out for years at this stage.
The Minister of State will be well aware that we have always supported the The Living Wage Technical Group's recommendations on that, which is different from what the Minister of State's Government has said is the living wage. We have always been cognisant of the problems and challenges which SMEs will face with regard to their ability to pay the living wage. For some businesses an increase is a burden which will place an initial stress on the performance but that can be temporary and the Government can assist them. We have the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. In August of this year we were told that less than 10% of that €1 billion budget had been spent. As regards the rest of that budget, a portion of this could be repurposed to assist the smaller and medium enterprises in the initial period of introducing the living wage. It could and should be used for what it was there for, which is to support businesses going forward.
It is within the gift of the Government to deliver such support and it is within its gift to deliver a true living wage. Low pay workers, many of whom work and are at risk of poverty as I said earlier, need to be helped especially at this time, particularly in a cost-of-living crisis.
On Tuesday, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, announced a €250 million investment from this Government in SMEs. This new fund will benefit 87% of rate-paying businesses across the country. This is in recognition of the need to increase the minimum wage, move towards a living wage, as well as accepting the increased costs to businesses. This grant will be paid into the bank accounts of these businesses in the first quarter of next year and this is the re-purposing the Deputy is talking about. It is effective and will get to source. This Government is completely committed to increasing the national minimum wage, reflecting the recommendations of the Low Pay Commission and will reach the living wage, bearing in mind that many business leaders, the larger ones with the ability, have already moved ahead in this process. We will reach it by the stated target of 2026 and we are doing that in a manner which brings the employers and the employer groups, as well as the trade union movement and the workers, on that journey as well.
11. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will consider using unused funding for TBESS to fund grant support for businesses that were badly affected by LPG costs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44322/23]
Addressing the Ministers present, I first want to welcome the fact that the Government has finally re-profiled the funding from TBESS that has not been drawn down. It is too complicated and did not have enough businesses which needed it. Other such businesses which rely on liquefied petroleum gas, LPG, were completely excluded from this. Will the Ministers provide a scheme for business users of LPG given that they were not eligible fuels under TBESS, as was previously committed to? We still have the problem with LPG gas.
In the first instance, it was not previously committed to but let me explain why, please. As part of a review of the operation of the temporary business energy support scheme earlier this year, it was agreed that my Department would examine the possibility of developing an additional support scheme for businesses that use kerosene and LPG for the purposes of heating their business premises. This was in recognition of the fact that many businesses, particularly in rural areas, are not connected to the natural gas network and therefore could not avail of TBESS, as outlined by the Deputy.
In the interests of fairness, it was necessary to ensure that any new scheme would align with the parameters, at least closely, of TBESS, i.e. business energy costs would have to have increased by at least 30% for businesses to qualify. Data on the pricing trends showed that kerosene prices increased by an average of 88% following the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022. This justified the creation of a scheme for businesses that use this fuel. That scheme is now currently open. The price of LPG, however, only increased by 19% during the same period. It was therefore concluded that there was not sufficient justification for the development of a support scheme for LPG users because we have to get state aid approval from the European Commission in order to do that. In order to get state aid approval we have to show that there was a significant price increase. The data does not show that for LPG, I am afraid. I was more than happy to do it if the data had shown a more than 30% increase, and there was no problem with the money.
The business users support scheme for kerosene was launched on 6 September once we got state aid approval and will be open for applications until 31 October, which is this month. Eligible businesses will receive a payment to reimburse them for half of their increased costs in the period from March to December 2022. Details of how to apply are available online at bussk.ie and I encourage all eligible businesses to apply before the deadline.
If I may add to that, our understanding of the data we have got from representative bodies and so on is that there are more than 20,000 businesses which use kerosene and are potentially eligible for this scheme. Only a very small fraction of that number have applied to date. This is a very straightforward scheme to apply for and I very much encourage people to support businesses which had a kerosene bill which increased during that period to apply for that scheme. It is a generous, supportive scheme and is easy to apply for but applications need to be in before the end of this month.
I thank the Minister and let me be helpful to him because what he is saying does not tie up with what I know and, as the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, is here, he will know this also. First, on 21 March, the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, assured me that a grant would be put in place for LPG-reliant businesses. Last month, rural businesses went from being an afterthought to being completely forgotten and the grant scheme was quietly dropped.
The senior Minister stated in a written response to me that the average price of LPG increased by less than 20%, and he mentioned a 30% threshold for an increase. I have been shown bills, as I would imagine has the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, as well, which show that there were increases far above the 20%. One business, as late as one hour ago, told me today that their costs went from 39 cent to 69 cent per litre in 2022. That is an almost 100% increase. That is an absolute fact and I can give the Minister the evidence to show him that. When one needs 1000 l a week, one can imagine the pressure these businesses are under. Will the Minister, therefore, review the data that was used to exclude these businesses and will he put in place a process for these businesses to show what they are actually paying and how they can access the scheme because the data does not tie up?
The Deputy is using one isolated case. My job was to look at the entirety of the market at the time and the price increase for LPG in the country. This is what I asked the Department to do and this is what it did do. It came back with the data which showed that there was an 88% increase in the cost of kerosene but only a 19% increase in the cost of LPG during the period. This was, incidentally, the period when there was the greatest increase in energy prices. I must rely on that data rather than on individual cases. I trust that the Department did a thorough job on that. It talked to the industry and got the data from across the country. That is the kind of data which we have to present to the European Commission in order to get state aid approval to be able to intervene in the market. I cannot make decisions on the basis of one business showing an energy bill which it paid. I have to make a case to the European Commission on the basis of the broader market which is what we did.
I would still ask the Minister to ask the Department to have a look at the data because sometimes things can be got wrong and I think it has been got wrong in this situation. The issue here is not just that the businesses were hit hard by the high energy costs but they were misled by the Government twice, first when TBESS was announced and then when the grant scheme was appointed. Also, businesses make the decision such as taking on debt to back that announcement.
The other thing is that manufacturing was also excluded. Companies which were relying on kerosene for manufacturing were also included but this was just for heating not for manufacturing. I ask please that someone within the Department could just have another look at this to see what can be done because it is very much impacting on businesses in rural areas. I believe the data in this instance deserves or needs further interrogation with respect to our getting to the bottom of what we want to get at here.
I appreciate the tenor of the Deputy's question but I just want to say that nobody on this side of the House misled anybody. The reason why I insisted on moving ahead with the kerosene scheme was because I wanted to help businesses across rural Ireland in counties like that of the Deputy and others. There are many hotels, restaurants and so on which are not connected to the gas network and, therefore, were not able to get support for their increased heating bills which others who were connected to the gas network were able to get through TBESS. That is why we studied the market and looked at the increase at the time and dramatically simplified the application process for the kerosene scheme.
It is much easier to apply for and there is a much shorter application process. Despite all that, only a few hundred companies are applying when we know that more than 20,000 use kerosene. Our focus for this month is to get those 20,000 businesses, or as many of them as we can, to apply for that scheme so we can get supports to them directly.
On the liquefied petroleum gas, LPG, issue, unless I can get definitive proof that the price increased by close to 30%, it is very hard for us to make the case to the European Commission that we should be making a market intervention. The data I have at the moment suggest the increase was only 19%.
There is just time for Deputy Dillon to introduce his question.
13. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will provide details of the number of IDA visits to Mayo; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43520/23]
As a representative of the people of Mayo, I continue to strongly campaign for a fair and equitable approach to regional development. I believe it is crucial we address the situation regarding the IDA's activities across the county. Will the Minister provide a comprehensive report on the total number of site visits organised by IDA Ireland to Mayo this year?
I am afraid we are out of time.
I am heading to Mayo tonight and meeting with businesses tomorrow. I will be able to discuss that with the Deputy and others tomorrow.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
IDA Ireland, through its regional property programme, aims to ensure a suitable supply of land, buildings and infrastructure in regional locations to meet the needs of current and prospective clients of the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and the local enterprise offices. In this regard, the IDA keeps its land-holdings under constant review, including in the west and in County Mayo, with a view to future-proofing its property offering. Moreover, the IDA continues to work with regional stakeholders and the private sector and has had regular engagements with Mayo County Council on its plans in this context.
During the past two years there were a number of positive foreign direct investment, FDI, developments, including significant announcements in County Mayo. In July this year, Charles River Laboratories International Inc. announced the completion of a €10 million expansion of its testing capabilities at its Ballina, County Mayo site. This follows a previous announcement in 2021 by Charles River of plans for an expansion of its testing capabilities in Ballina to give an additional 1,500 sq. m of lab space and create up to 90 new skilled roles.
In October 2022, Fort Wayne Metals celebrated 20 years of manufacturing in Ireland, having established in 2002 with just five employees and now employing 150 employees. In June 2022, Baxter Healthcare SA celebrated 50 years of manufacturing in Ireland. The company’s Castlebar site, established in 1972 with just nine employees, now has more than 1,200 employees. Previously in October 2021, TELUS International AI Data Solutions announced 30 new roles in Ballina.
I have been informed by the IDA that there was one e-visit, as it is called, in Mayo this year. However, I am also advised this is not necessarily indicative of the number of companies that have visited in circumstances where potential clients often visit more than one county and may also return to a location more than once. IDA Ireland will continue to market Mayo and the west through its overseas offices to target mobile FDI opportunities.
