Alan Farrell
Ceist:1. Deputy Alan Farrell asked the Taoiseach his engagement with European leaders as regards the Israel-Gaza conflict. [49603/23]
Ceisteanna - Questions
Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements
Bernard Durkan
Ceist:2. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Taoiseach to report on any recent discussions he has had with other world leaders in connection with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. [49983/23]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
I recently attended the Paris international humanitarian conference on Gaza convened by President Macron. The conference brought together leaders from the EU and leaders from the wider Middle East region, along with high-level representatives of UN agencies and NGOs active on the ground in Gaza, to consider the humanitarian crisis and how best to ensure that civilians can access the urgent aid they so desperately need.
The picture painted by those representing organisations working on the ground in Gaza - including the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, OCHA; the International Committee of the Red Cross, the World Health Organization and Médecins sans Frontières - was, quite frankly, very grim and disturbing. They are working in extremely difficult circumstances and often at great risk to their personnel. UNRWA alone has seen just under 100 of its employees killed and many of its clinics and schools, including those sheltering civilians, damaged and destroyed by the Israel Defense Forces. It is, however, committed to staying there to help the civilian population as best it can.
As the House is aware, large numbers of civilians are being displaced and are now living without access to adequate shelter, medicine, fuel, food or water. The World Health Organization has reported that sanitation is a serious problem and likely to contribute to the significant spread of disease and deaths in the period ahead unless the situation is urgently dealt with. While it has been possible to bring some limited supplies into Gaza via the Rafah crossing at the border with Egypt, it is nowhere near what is required. Many at the conference observed that the capacity of the crossing at Rafah is limited and is not capable of being scaled up to meet what is required, even if security could be guaranteed. Other approaches are being considered, including a maritime corridor into the south of Gaza and an appeal to open further crossings, particularly those with Israel.
Most at the conference insisted that the most urgent consideration is to ensure the application of international humanitarian law, including the protection of civilians, and to secure a ceasefire sufficient to allow humanitarian aid to be provided safely.
Many, including the Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, Mohammad Shtayyeh, spoke of the deteriorating situation in the West Bank, where 180 people have been killed since 7 October. The risk of escalation to the wider region is of serious concern.
In my intervention, I paid tribute to those working to help the people of Gaza in these especially difficult circumstances. I called for full observation of international humanitarian law by Israel and all other parties to the conflict. Palestinian lives and Israeli lives are of equal value. I also called for a significant ceasefire to enable aid into Gaza and to allow foreign citizens and dual nationals to leave if they wish to do so. I have also called for the immediate and unconditional release of hostages by Hamas, particularly the children. Drawing on our national experience, I stressed the imperative of a renewed political process as the only way to bring about a just and lasting peace, with a two-state solution. Ireland will support any initiative that can bring people away from the guns and back to the table.
At the conference, I had meetings in the margins with the Prime Minister of Palestine, Mohammad Shtayyeh, who thanked me for Ireland's interest in and support for Palestine, the foreign minister of Egypt, Sameh Shoukry, who offered his assistance in securing the safe exit of Irish passport holders trapped in Gaza, and Prince Rashid of Jordan, who also recognised Ireland's role and offered to be of any assistance he could to Irish citizens.
I spoke to the Commissioner-General of UNRWA, Philippe Lazzarini, the secretary general of the International Committee of the Red Cross, Mirjana Egger, and the executive director of the World Health Organization's emergencies programme, Dr. Mike Ryan.
As I have previously informed the House, I also discussed the situation in the Middle East with my colleagues on the European Council in a meeting by video conference on 17 October and at the European Council proper on 26 and 27 October. I also discussed the matter at a meeting of prime ministers in Copenhagen last night.
I thank the Taoiseach for his response to my question. I put on the record my recognition of the importance of diplomacy, even with nations to which we are fundamentally opposed. It is incredibly important for the European Union to speak with one voice with regard to the humanitarian crisis unfolding before our eyes. What the Israelis are doing to innocent civilians in Gaza is shocking and appalling. It is not new, I regret to say; they have been doing it for decades. We are now, I suppose, in the fortunate position where, primarily due to social media, we are seeing everything that is going on daily, almost hourly.
I disagree with one remark the Taoiseach made, which is that Palestinian and Israeli lives are equal. To us, yes, of course they are, but they are not to the Israelis. That is very clear from their actions. I implore the Taoiseach to do more, or to do as much as he possibly can, to ensure that the European Union speaks with one voice when it comes to this conflict and the barbarism on the part of the Israel Defense Forces and the Government of Israel. To do anything less would be to let down the goodwill which the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have created with their engagement with countries such as those the Taoiseach mentioned, which, in turn, have offered to assist us in facilitating our citizens in the Gaza Strip. Mark my words, this issue has been going on for decades. While the recent conflict is being played out on our television screens for all to see, I do not see an end to this conflict because I do not believe that the Israelis have any interest in ending it. Their goal is the eradication of the Palestinian people in Gaza. We all know that and it has been the case for decades. Whatever the Taoiseach can do, I want to make it obvious that as a small island off the coast of Europe with a population of a bit over 5 million, and as a neutral country, we have incredible reach. I refer the Taoiseach to our relationship with our American friends in this regard. They are a critical component of what the Israelis are doing in light of the ongoing supply of arms. Those are the issues I wish to highlight this afternoon.
I thank the Taoiseach for his comprehensive reply in respect of a very difficult subject at a very difficult time. No words can describe the depth of revulsion among the general public and many countries across the globe at what is being perpetrated by the Israelis in Gaza. It cannot be justified that a retaliation in any circumstances goes on in order to achieve a greater body count. One of the things I have noticed in this situation over the years is that it would appear that a body count, in terms of initial reaction or retaliation, seems to be the bottom line. It should not be.
I thank the Taoiseach for pursuing this matter at international level but I believe we can do more. What is of great importance is to recognise now that there needs to be somebody to intervene, somebody of stature who is respected internationally, whether that is from the US, the East, the West or whatever. The UN would appear to be the obvious choice to intervene. The UN had greater stature before the war in the western Balkans when the UN deployment had to stand down in the face of a superior force. That was the weakening of the position. It was also a watershed. To what extent can the Taoiseach encourage the restoration of the stature the UN once held? There is no sense in the response coming from other countries to say that they have to sort this one out first or that they will do X, Y or Z at a certain stage. We need a permanent structure dedicated to achieving some kind of peaceful resolution. Otherwise, the only resolution will be war that will bring on a counter-war, and it goes on forever. It is the old story of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. The only thing that happens at the end of that, if it is pursued, is that we have a great number of blind and toothless people. I appeal that stature of the UN be restored or that it reasserts it authority in that particular area in order to dominate matters.
We have two other speakers in this slot. Obviously, it is an important topic; they all are. We have ten speakers and after these two questions we have eight questions to get through in the remaining 35 minutes. I ask Members to be conscious of that. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett. He will be followed by Deputy Paul Murphy.
It is very obvious to everybody who is being honest that Israel is engaged in a genocidal massacre in Gaza. Why does the Taoiseach, along with the sponsors of Israel, namely, the United States, Britain and the European Union, continue to persist with the falsehood that this has anything to do with Israeli self-defence or that Israel is in any way a normal state, particularly when its own spokespeople have made it clear what they are doing? Gallant has described all Palestinians as human animals. The Israelis have said that they are going to target the entire population by cutting off food, water, electricity and medical supplies. They have been doing that, not only in the last month, but have been doing it for years. This Israeli Government, long before October 7, and one of its members, Smotrich, said that there is no such thing as the Palestinians. Netanyahu said that he was not interested in and would never allow a Palestinian state. That has been the history of this state since its foundation.
Let me quote David Ben-Gurion in 1937: “We must expel the Arabs and take their place”. Chaim Weizmann, the first Israeli President, said: “There is a fundamental difference in quality between Jew[s] and [the] native.” One can go on through the list. Ben-Gurion said in 1948: “The Arabs of the Land of Israel ... have but one function left - to run away.” That has been the entire history of the state, which is one of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and occupation. I ask the Taoiseach why he says this state is defending itself when it is clearly involved in a genocidal war to destroy the Palestinian people.
I ask the Taoiseach again - I asked him this before - if a regime built on ethnic cleansing, apartheid and illegal occupation has the right to defend itself. I say that it does not have the right to defend itself. The people who have the right to defend themselves are the people who are the victims of apartheid, illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing. It is the Palestinians who have the right to defend themselves. They are the oppressed. Israel is the aggressor. Why will the Taoiseach not honestly admit that that is the truth of this horrific situation because unless we acknowledge the truth----
The Deputy will get a response from the Taoiseach.
-----we will never end the horror?
While the Taoiseach was away yesterday, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, took Leaders' Questions and he said that Israel is waging a war on children. Does the Taoiseach agree that Israel is waging a war on children? There is plenty of evidence to show that they are. Almost 5,000 children in Gaza have been killed by Israel. The bombs rain down on hospitals, including children’s hospitals. Babies have been taken out of incubators because the hospitals have run out of fuel as a result of the blockade imposed by Israel. Tanks are surrounding a children’s hospital. They are waging a war on children. How can the Government say, on the one hand, that Israel is waging a war on children and, on the other hand, say that we should not do anything about it? A few words of criticism in the face of genocide happening openly and brazenly before the entire world are simply not good enough. The Government has to take action.
Will the Taoiseach do what he did with regard to Russia and make a referral to the International Criminal Court? Will he impose economic sanctions on Israel and will he expel the Israeli ambassador? There is a disgusting piece from the ambassador in The Irish Times today. She says that it is Hamas which has helped “instigate as many Palestinian casualties and as much destruction as possible”. It is not the Israeli bombs, paid for by the US, which are responsible for the deaths. No. Apparently that is the responsibility of Hamas too. She has to go.
I want to draw the Taoiseach's attention to the statement by Josep Borrell, High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, on humanitarian pauses in Gaza. There is a particular line which reads: "The EU condemns the use of hospitals and civilians as human shields by Hamas." I want to know what involvement or engagement there was on this statement with the Irish Government because the difficulty with this is that it provides cover to the Israeli regime. That is why we have what is going on with the likes of Al-Shifa Hospital at this point in time. We have to look at the nature of the regime which is in operation in Israel. We have to look at Smotrich, Ben-Gvir and Netanyahu, a man who has always been against a two-state solution. This was a guy who was willing to ensure that money made its way to Hamas, where Israel would "mow the lawn", as they call it in Israel, every now and again. He probably thought that he had dealt with the Palestinians for 15 years, so he was able to concentrate on the West Bank.
He absolutely failed to protect the Israeli people. What we find is that he is also the guy who stoked up the right wing at the time that Yigal Amir assassinated Yitzhak Rabin, one of the most successful assassinations in history it seems, in the sense of the absolute disaster that came after it. However, that is the nature of the regime. It is absolutely against a two-state solution and entirely happy that there is a broken Palestinian leadership and that it can present Hamas in a way that allows it to ask how peace could be had with these people. The fact is, this is the settler movement. This is the politics of Yigal Amir in Israeli Government. How do we produce a roadmap, not only for peace but for self-determination, with these people? We all want to see it. The problem is that these people have never been called out and that is why we need a referral from this State and many others to the ICC.
I thank the Deputies for their contributions. I have explained earlier on a number of occasions the Government's position on the ICC and also about the need to keep diplomatic relations open with Israel through its embassador. Deputy Alan Farrell spoke about what we can do at an EU level. It is fair to say that the European Union is not united when it comes to the conflict in Israel and Palestine. It is such a contrast to where we are on Ukraine. A lot of that comes from the historical perspective that many of the European countries have and we have to understand that. Germany, Austria, and the Czech Republic come from a very particular point of view given their history; countries that have experienced Islamic terrorism come at it from a particular perspective in a way that we would not because we have not had that experience, or at least not anything close to their experience; and we come from the experience of a country that understands what being denied self-determination is like for a very long period of time. I am glad we are at the table. We have been able to influence EU policy because we are at the table. Far from cutting or suspending aid to Palestine, aid has been trebled. We have the position where all European countries now agree that there should, at the very least, be humanitarian pauses, and we have agreement that all 27 member states advocate a two-state solution. I am somewhat encouraged by what I have been hearing from leaders of some of the larger countries in the past couple of days: President Macron unequivocally calling for a ceasefire not just pauses, President Biden raising real concerns around what is happening around the hospitals in Gaza and Prime Minister Sunak very clearly talking about the need for Israel to adhere to international humanitarian law, but particularly mentioning what has been happening in the West Bank. The West Bank is not controlled by Hamas and it is not particularly active there, yet Palestinians, including children, are being killed there and Prime Minister Sunak has brought particular attention to the violence there which cannot just be blamed on Hamas.
Regarding the future EU role, there is a role for the European Union in Gaza when the current phase of the conflict is over. There is a role for us as the European Union in demanding a two-state solution. As I have said earlier, we have been far too keen to trade with Israel as a European Union without demanding that it respects human rights and enables the creation of a Palestinian state. We have been far too willing to aid Palestine - we are its biggest donor - and we have not assisted on human rights, democracy and the defeat of terrorism. That is something that the EU, as 27 members states, can perhaps unite around and take united action. Due to not being united now we are really not at the table as a European Union. That is the truth of it and that is not a good place for anyone to be in.
Deputy Durkan asked about the United Nations. As everyone in the House will know, I am a big supporter of the United Nations. It gets a lot of criticism but we need to just look at the work that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, is doing on the ground in Palestine. What sort of lives would Palestinians have were it not for that agency? Look at the work we do in the Golan Heights and in south Lebanon through the United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon, UNIFIL, and the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, UNDOF, in keeping the peace. Look at all the work the World Health Organization did during the pandemic, and in fighting HIV-AIDS. The UN Security Council does not work because of the veto power of the five permanent members and because the composition of the council represents the world as it was in 1945, not as it is now. This urgently needs to be reformed and we have made that case on a number of occasions.
In response to Deputy Boyd Barrett, I believe any State, and that includes Israel, has the right to self-defence when its civilians are attacked, and that is what happened on 7 October, but what is happening in Gaza is beyond self-defence. It constitutes collective punishment. I said so, and was one of the first to say so, and I stand over that. I also believe Palestinians have the right to resist occupation; of course they do.
All of us in this House deplore what is happening to children in Gaza at the hands of the IDF. It is deeply wrong and deeply unacceptable. But we should not forget, and it does not make it okay by the way - I am concerned that people are already forgetting - what Hamas did to children in Israel. It went out of its way to kill and torture as many children as possible and kidnapped others, including one Irish citizen, Emily Hand. We should always remember that the lives of all children are equal. When we talk about the lives of Palestinian children, which we should, we should not forget what happened to the Israeli children too and what is still happening to those children in the tunnels in Gaza.
Deputy Ó Murchú asked specifically about High Representative Borrell. I do not believe we had any input into that particular statement. We, of course, do contribute to EU Council statements. Deputy Ó Murchú also mentioned the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, who is somebody whose loss I deeply mourn. I listened only the other day to one of the last speeches he made. He talked about how the occupation and the violence itself would undermine Israeli democracy and security in the medium term and I think he was right.
Trade Missions
Seán Haughey
Ceist:3. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to South Korea. [49618/23]
I travelled to the Republic of Korea between 1 and 3 November, to participate in the team Ireland trade mission week, with the Ministers, Deputies Coveney, Harris, and McConalogue. This was the first team Ireland trade mission under the Government’s new trade and investment strategy and is a part of the Government’s commitment under the global Ireland strategy to increasing Ireland’s global presence and impact.
This year is especially significant for Irish-Korean relations as it marks 40 years of diplomatic relations. During my visit, I had the opportunity to meet with CEOs and chairpersons of major Korean conglomerates, some with existing investments in Ireland and others looking for suitable locations in which to invest. In these meetings, I highlighted Ireland’s strong track record in securing and maintaining foreign direct investment, our access to the EU Single Market and the pro-enterprise approach of successive Irish Governments. I also highlighted strengths in our third-level institutions and our strong commitment to research and development. I had the opportunity to highlight Ireland’s attractiveness as a place to visit and to invest in, as well as the strengths of our exporters in agrifood and other sectors when I addressed a trade Ireland networking reception in Seoul. I met with representatives of the small but active Irish community in South Korea and was really impressed by how they have created a vibrant cultural community in their new home and very much fly the flag for Ireland.
In addition to 2023 being the 40th anniversary of Ireland-Korea diplomatic relations, it also marks the 70th anniversary of the signing of the armistice that suspended conflict in Korea. I took the opportunity to witness the extraordinary efforts that continue on a daily basis to ensure that peace is sustained, visiting the demilitarised zone and the joint security area that stands at the line between North and South Korea. My visit was a timely reminder of the importance and value of peacekeeping as Irish and Korean peacekeepers serve side by side, working to maintain peace in south Lebanon at this exceptionally difficult time.
I was honoured to lay a wreath at the Irish memorial within the Korean war memorial complex, in remembrance of those who lost their lives in the conflict, including over 150 Irish nationals and many more of Irish heritage. I also had a warm and positive bilateral meeting with President Yoon at which we discussed how we can deepen our political, economic, educational and cultural ties. On the trade and investment side, I raised efforts underway to gain access for Irish beef to the Korean market, on which President Yoon expressed confidence that the necessary parliamentary procedures in Korea could be completed by the end of the year. We also discussed our shared commitment to multilateralism and the rules-based international order. I congratulated the President on Korea’s election to the United Nations Security Council for the 2024 to 2025 term and offered Ireland’s assistance, given our own recent term on the council.
As like-minded countries and given our commitment to shared values, I spoke to President Yoon about the transformation in Irish society with regard to gender equality and equality for the LGBTQI+ community. I extended an invitation to President Yoon to pay a return visit to Ireland as soon as he can.
Before I call Deputy Haughey, I welcome the Limerick ladies' 2020 Club to the Public Gallery. I know all Members here welcome them. Enjoy your day here, ladies. You are very welcome.
I thank the Taoiseach for his comprehensive report on his visit to South Korea. South Korea is the world's 12th largest economy and the fourth largest economy in Asia. His visit, along with three other Ministers, as part of a Team Ireland trade mission was important for establishing new trade and education links between our countries. Last month, the Tánaiste launched Ireland's updated strategy, Global Ireland: Delivering in the Asia Pacific Region to 2025. The trade mission was timely in that context.
The Taoiseach discussed security issues and the importance of peacekeeping and multilateralism with the President of South Korea. That Taoiseach visited the demilitarised zone between North Korea and South Korea. Following his discussions, what is his assessment of the threat posed to international peace and security by North Korea? North Korea possesses nuclear warheads and President Kim Jong Un is quite fond of testing long-range missiles. He is also a fan of Russian President Vladimir Putin. What is the position of South Korea with regard to the war in Ukraine? It is a fact that much of the world is not as exercised about this as are the EU and the US.
I asked the Taoiseach last week about this deal for a data centre from South Korea in Ireland. I was spun a line about fuel cells and so on. The Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, said, "If we can build data centres that are powered by fuel cell technology, initially gas, but in the future hydrogen, then that really does change the dynamic". It is classic greenwashing-speak by the Government, is it not, Taoiseach? The translation is that this new data centre will be powered by burning gas, a fossil fuel. The backdrop to this is the moratorium on new data centres in Dublin because of the huge pressure they are putting on the electricity grid and the fact that we are heading towards 30% of our electricity consumption being used on data centres. A dozen data centres got around that moratorium by connecting directly to the gas grid before the Minister, Deputy Ryan, put a moratorium on that. Since then, data centres have been applying to build their own gas-powered plants. This is part of that, is it not? We have plans to build a data centre powered by a gas-powered fuel cell, which the Minister, Deputy Coveney, hopes can become a template for many other data centres. This is about getting around the climate action plan, is it not, Taoiseach?
Before I deal with this question, I accept and welcome the fact we had no part to play in this particular statement but I think there should be some element of a complaint about the language used regarding human shields. I have a real problem that that provides cover to this Israeli regime and the actions it is carrying out, particularly in attacking hospitals. When we talk about Germany and its particular-----
Can we stick to this question, please?
-----guilt, I do not think it is okay for the Palestinian people to pay for the crimes that were carried out everywhere from Babi Yar to Sobibor, Dachau, Treblinka and Auschwitz. I do not think that is okay. Beyond that, the Germans did not exactly rush-----
Deputy, the Taoiseach cannot answer questions on that.
-----after Yom Kippur to help the Israelis or when NASA was engaging rocket scientists.
In fairness to Deputy Haughey, he spoke about the Taoiseach's visit to the demilitarised zone. We have had a complete realignment of politics. We have seen what has happened across the world. We have to take into account the heightened relationship between Russia and North Korea and how this will continue. All these conflict plays can impact on a wider scale. We are not entirely sure. Has the Taoiseach garnered any learnings when he was there?
The Pacific strategy, which Deputy Haughey mentioned, was launched by the Tánaiste quite recently. Our relationship in the region is flourishing, including at political level. We have already exceeded our target of €100 billion in two-way trade with the region. The world around us has been transformed in recent years, not just by the pandemic but by geopolitical developments. That is why the Government updated the strategy, renewing Ireland's level of ambition with more than 50 specific commitments. The cross-government stakeholders group, including the State agencies, will continue to drive implementation. My trade mission to Korea with the Ministers, Deputies Coveney, McConalogue and Harris, as well as the Tánaiste's recent visit to China, signal our increased level of engagement with this dynamic region.
On the assessment of North Korea, from talking to people in the region, they have two concerns about potential flashpoints. One is Taiwan. They are concerned that what is happening in Ukraine could happen in Taiwan and that would destabilise the region and cause a lot of suffering. The other concern is the risk caused by North Korea. One thing I was not aware of, which I learned, is that North Korea largely funds its nuclear missile programme through sophisticated cybercrime and cyberextortion. It is a world leader in that regard and that is how it funds much of its military programme. It is also co-operating with President Putin. I understand it provided weapons to Russia to assist it in its attack on Ukraine. It is not clear what President Putin has provided the North Koreans. I certainly think that provocation should be avoided.
I really feel for the people of North Korea, who have had 70 years of experiencing state control, communism, socialism and dictatorship. If anyone wants to see the contrast in different systems, just see the difference between North Korea and South Korea. North Korea was previously the more economically advanced part of the peninsula. Now it goes significantly in the other direction. People do not have basic human rights in North Korea, which is the only way that a regime of that nature can possibly stay in power. Thankfully, we do not have too much of that in Europe anymore, and have never had to experience it here.
In response to Deputy Murphy's question, my understanding is that the fuel cell-powered data centre is not on the electricity grid, which is an advantage. While it may not be powered by renewable gases initially, it could be. I was not at the meeting so I do not know all the details.
Deputy Ó Murchú mentioned High Representative Borrell's statement. It is important we acknowledge that Hamas uses human shields. It currently has hundreds of hostages in Gaza. There is evidence it has used churches, mosques, hospitals and schools. That does not for a second justify the destruction of those buildings or installations. We have dealt with terrorism here in Ireland, including terrorist organisations that wanted to bring down this State and terrorist organisations that committed terrible war crimes in Northern Ireland. I do not remember anyone ever thinking it justifiable to destroy a whole hospital because there might be a terrorist in it.
Northern Ireland
Seán Haughey
Ceist:4. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [49620/23]
Brendan Smith
Ceist:5. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [49621/23]
Mary Lou McDonald
Ceist:6. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [49687/23]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 6, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland was reconstituted as one of ten Cabinet committees established in January 2023. The Cabinet committee is intended to oversee the implementation of the programme for Government commitments regarding Brexit, Northern Ireland and ongoing related developments. Northern Ireland and related matters are also discussed at meetings of the Government and regularly bilaterally between me and the Tánaiste. It is expected that the next meeting of the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will take place next week.
I would like to ask about the progress on the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act. As the Taoiseach knows, this legislation will replace current methods of criminal and civil investigations and inquests with inquiries carried out by the new Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery.
It will have the power to offer conditional amnesties. The Act effectively tears up the relevant provisions of the Stormont House Agreement. The Council of Europe has stated the Act breaches human law. Already there are legal actions under way in Belfast to stop the legislation. The Irish Government could take an interstate case against the British Government in the European Court of Human Rights on the basis of the European Convention on Human Rights. Has the Attorney General given his advice on this matter as yet? When will the Government make a decision in this regard?
In addition, former Lord Chief Justice Declan Morgan has been appointed the chief commissioner-designate of the ICRIR. It has already recruited staff and has launched a public survey to develop its operating principles. Has the Irish Government had any engagement with this new body to date given that it has launched a public survey? Obviously we do not agree with the establishment of this body but I wonder whether it has had any communication with the Irish Government.
I also refer to this legislation, and it is absolutely deplorable that the views of the Irish Government and the views of all political parties on this island have been ignored by the British Government. Recent British Governments have not had the joint working relationship, or the close co-operation and long-standing co-operation, that existed in the past between Irish and British Governments, which was critical to the progress made in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
This flawed legislation will deny justice to families bereaved during the Troubles in Northern Ireland. These families, as I have often put on the record of the House, have campaigned over the years with great grace and dignity for the truth to be established. They continue to endure the pain of loss and to express their desire for accountability, justice and truth. It is essential that avenues remain open for this. Unfortunately, the British Government has unilaterally closed down these avenues despite the united opposition of all political parties on this island. We need to continue to record forcefully our opposition to this atrocity amnesty. No one, whether in the IRA, the INLA, the UVF, the UFF, the RUC or the British army, should escape justice from committing heinous crimes. It is very important that Dáil Éireann and the Government continue to send this message out clearly to the British Government.
The British Government has succeeded in uniting every party on this island in opposition to its so-called legacy Bill. The Bill is not about legacy or in any way endorsed by people on this island. It will be devastating for families and unilaterally close the door on them getting truth and justice. It is contrary to the Stormont House Agreement, which states that processes dealing with the past should be victim centred.
The Bill is also contrary to the spirit of partnership of the Good Friday Agreement, which all parties should seek to foster and not undermine. Sinn Féin has called on the Government to take an interstate case against the British Government to meet our obligations as co-guarantor of these agreements. The Taoiseach has received the advice of the Attorney General on this and has indicated that no decision has yet been made but it is under consideration. Will the Taoiseach indicate in what timeframe the Government will make such a decision?
Unfortunately we have had continued drift. We do not have the DUP making the determination to join the rest of us to form an Executive. What engagement has the Taoiseach had and where does he see it at this time? Obviously he is dealing with a British Government that has had plenty of change in the past while.
I add my voice to those of everyone else with regard to the legacy Bill. The Taoiseach has the advice from the Attorney General. We are looking for a timeline and to know whether the State is willing to take an interstate case. I have put my view on the record many times that the legacy Bill is about the British Government protecting its own state forces and, beyond this, being able to hide to some degree its history of collusion and assassination.
The Taoiseach has said before, with regard to the possibility of a Border poll and a referendum on a united Ireland, that he is not in favour of a citizens' assembly to look at some of these issues. Has the Taoiseach given any greater consideration to any other possible alternative to doing this piece of necessary work, whereby we could all have the conversation on what a united Ireland could look like?
I attended an excellent town hall meeting organised by the North West Migrants Forum at the end of September. It has done very good work on highlighting the reality of the invisible hard border that exists on this island for non-EU nationals. There was another example of the consequences of this in terms of racial profiling on 7 November, when a black passenger was removed from the X4 Derry to Dublin bus while a white passenger with no identification remained on the bus. There are very simple things the Government can do without the agreement of the Tory Government to bring down large elements of this invisible hard border. It can and should state that non-EU visa nationals who have lawful residency in the North should be granted a form of deemed permission to enter the State in the South. It can state that everyone who is lawfully resident on this island can access public services in the South. It can state the time spent living in residency in the North would count towards citizenship requirements. Senator Emer Currie of Fine Gael was present at the town hall meeting. She said she agreed with all of these things. Does the Taoiseach agree with them and will the Government act on them?
To what extent can the Taoiseach continue to impress upon the authorities in Northern Ireland and the UK the need to resolve on an ongoing basis issues that have arisen from Brexit and that have caused problems for the business, industry and commercial sectors north and south of the Border? What is the extent to which the Taoiseach can continue to impress upon all with whom he meets the necessity to identify and attempt to resolve the issues of contention?
I thank Deputies Haughey, Smith and others who raised the Northern Ireland Troubles legacy Act. Once again I state the Government believes this is the wrong approach to legacy and reconciliation. It is not supported by any of the major parties in Northern Ireland, which is significant. We have received legal advice from the Attorney General. This is an essential contribution to our consideration on whether to take a case or to support a case taken by a third party. We are studying the advice, considering the next steps and looking at the implications of such a decision. This includes the potential impact on the bilateral relationship, broader political and civic concerns in Northern Ireland about legacy issues, and concerns among victims' groups and families throughout Ireland.
I stress that the initiation of a interstate case would be a significant step and would have to be taken on solid grounds. It is not one we would take lightly. Based on the advice of the Attorney General, there is a period during which we can take a case and after which it would become more difficult. We will have to make a decision on this in the next few weeks.
With regard to the restoration of the institutions, the need for those elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly in May 2022 to assume the responsibilities is increasingly urgent. The absence of functioning power-sharing at Stormont affects every part of society in Northern Ireland, from business to civic society and, most acutely now, public services. It also affects the other institutions of the Good Friday Agreement such as the North-South Ministerial Council, which is not meeting, and the British-Irish Council, which is and which will next week, but not with anyone from Northern Ireland present. Next week, I will host the British-Irish Council and the Tánaiste will host the British Irish Intergovernmental Conference in Dublin. This is welcome and it is good to see strand 3 institutions continue to work. We also need meetings of the North-South Ministerial Council to recommence and, more generally, all three strands of the Good Friday Agreement to be fully functioning. This has to be our priority for now.
Models such as a citizens' assembly or a New Ireland Forum-type model, which I would prefer, would be premature at this time and would not help us in the efforts we are making at present to get the institutions up and running.
I certainly do not think, though, that they will be premature forever.
Regarding cross-Border issues, since 2021, the Government has repeatedly raised with the British Government our concerns about ETA proposals. As a result of extensive engagement, UK secondary legislation last March established an ETA exemption for legal residents of Ireland, regardless of citizenship, who do not need a visa to visit the UK. This exemption was welcome. In respect of non-EU citizens, the fact of two jurisdictions means different visa requirements and immigration policies can have impacts on cross-Border working and travel.
Officials in the Department of Justice are monitoring these issues and working with counterparts in Northern Ireland and the UK. Government officials met in October with the North West Migrants Forum and will continue to consider the issues raised by the organisation, including barriers to cross-Border mobility faced by nationals based in Northern Ireland who require visas for Ireland.
Turning to the contribution from Deputy Durkan, I assure him we will continue to work with everyone, including with businesses in Northern Ireland and Britain, the British Government, the parties in Northern Ireland, the civil service there and the European Commission to iron out any issues that arise as a consequence of Brexit and ensure the Windsor Framework is implemented, is implemented properly, and that this is done in a way that works for people North and South.
Is féidir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scríofa ar
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Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 2.01 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 3.01 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 2.01 p.m. and resumed at 3.01 p.m.