Vol. 1049 No. 7
55. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Social Protection the measures that are being taken to tackle the backlog of appointment requests for public service cards in County Cork as it is ten years since the roll-out and a high volume of renewals is required; the progress that is being made to have an online application and renewal system available for public services cards; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7936/24]
The key issue with the renewal process for the card is that it should be smooth and that people should find it straightforward to do, with the minimum of hassle. We are getting a range of queries on different issues in our offices in Macroom and throughout County Cork. Will the Minister outline of the efforts being made to make the renewal process as smooth as possible?
I thank Deputy Moynihan. Intreo centres manage the front-line delivery of the standard authentication framework environment - the long version of SAFE - registration. This includes registration for public service card issuing and renewal and the processing of applications for personal public service numbers. Demand for these services remains high.
The public service card is a physical token that a person's identity has been authenticated by the Department. It means customers can access a range of public services easily without having to submit identity proofs to different public sector organisations.
The user’s identity is fully authenticated when it is issued so they do not have to give the same information to multiple organisations. It was first introduced in 2011 and was initially rolled out to people getting social welfare payments. There are three Intreo centres and 11 branch offices manned by 26 staff in Cork city and county, offering either a walk-in or an appointment service. We are not experiencing any delays or backlogs in Cork. Any urgent applications or renewals are processed without delay, while for non-urgent applications, an appointment is offered to applicants within a suitable timeframe and before the expiration of their current public service card.
Appointments can be made by email or telephone to any Intreo centre or branch office. After a customer has submitted an application along with the relevant documentation, the public service card will be posted within seven to ten working days. Anyone wishing to renew their card can do so online or at their local Intreo centre or branch office. Details of the Intreo centres and branch offices, how to make an appointment and the documents required for the appointment are all available on Gov.ie.
In Cork city and county there have been 7,310 public service card applications, first time and renewals, for the period 1 January 2024 to 15 February 2024. My Department currently provides an online public service card renewal service, which includes free travel cards, for customers who have a verified MyGovID account. Since the service was launched more than 134,000 customers have renewed their card online, with some 70,000 renewals completed in 2023.
Local offices are very helpful in getting the card renewed and they facilitate the appointments with people. We are seeing that people are getting a letter three months in advance, notifying them of the card coming due for renewal, but that they cannot make an appointment for another two months. They will not be facilitated with an appointment until the card is within a number of weeks of the renewal date. That concerns people. They want to know that they can get their card renewed. It is only in the last number of weeks they can do so and then the pressure is on because if the card is not renewed on time, people might have concerns about their free travel, for example. The online option is good for many people, but some people are really hitting a wall with the photograph when applying online and having the correct aspect ratio on the photograph. People feel ambushed by this in terms of knowing whether the photograph is correct. Many people are frustrated by having to load it again and again. Some people end up having to go to the local office to ask for an appointment in this regard.
Once the application process is completed, the card will be posted within seven to ten working days. If a person is getting the appointment well in advance of the card's expiry they should be okay.
I will have to take up the issue around the photograph with my officials. We want to streamline this process to allow people to go online and upload the photograph. People want to know that it is the correct photograph and that it has been taken. If it is not taken, the person can experience bother as well. As I said, we are not aware of any delays but if there are any specific instances the Deputy wants to bring to my attention, I am happy to follow up on them. If there is a problem we will find out what it is and deal with it. Generally speaking, the system is a good one and the public services card is a great job.
Having a smooth and reliable process for the renewal is so important. When people are getting their letter three months in advance they expect to be able to either do it online, or to be able to access the office locally. People are struggling to get appointments until they are much nearer the date of their card expiry. From what we understand, this is because of a large number of people. The card was introduced around ten or 11 years ago, so there is a large block of people coming towards the renewal at around about the same time. That is a predictable load, so there should be measures in place to deal with it. When a person gets the renewal done, the card is issued quite quickly. That is the positive part but getting to that renewal stage is where people have raised the issue of the photograph and also having to wait to get an appointment, even though they would have been notified three months in advance. It is a huge concern, particularly for people with the free travel. People really value the free travel and when it is available to them, they use it. Without the card there is a possibility that they would be stopped on the free travel.
I take the Deputy's point. They get the notice three months in advance, which is good. At least they are getting the notification that their card is due to expire. The card was introduced in 2011 and there were a lot of first-time applications in 2012, 2013 and 2014 when many people started to use the public service card, so there are a good few extra for renewal at this point. Since the service was launched, more than 134,000 people have renewed their cards online. Some 70,000 renewals were completed in 2023. That is a fair few and that will be more again in 2024. The important thing is that they get the card in time and I fully understand that they want to have the free travel pass. We spoke with the regional managers in Cork and they did not say that there were any delays, but I will raise the Deputy's concerns with my officials.
56. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide an update on the establishment of an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system of means testing for carer payments and related schemes; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7231/24]
Will the Minister provide an update on the establishment of an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system for means testing for carer payments and related schemes? We dealt with this issue previously. We all know the issues around the thresholds. Anything that can be done to introduce some element of flexibility into the system and something that works to benefit those people doing a great amount of work for the State and for their families, would be welcome.
The main income supports to carers provided by my Department are the carer’s allowance, the carer’s benefit, the domiciliary care allowance and the carer’s support grant. Spending on these payments is expected to amount to more than €1.7 billion this year.
Since my appointment as Minister, I have made a number of improvements in the social welfare system to enhance the supports available for our carers. These have included an increase of €150 to the annual carer’s support grant, bringing it to €1,850, the highest level since its introduction. The weekly rates of carer’s allowance and carer’s benefit have increased by €29 over the last three budgets.
Specifically with regard to carer’s allowance, I am the first Minister since 2007 to make changes to the means test. In June 2022, the income disregards were increased from €332.50 to €350 for a single person, and from €665 to €750 for carers with a spouse or partner.
As part of budget 2024, the weekly income disregard will be further increased from €350 to €450 for a single person and from €750 to €900 for carers with a spouse or partner. Notwithstanding these substantial improvements made to the payments under my remit, as part of budget 2024, I announced my intention to establish an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system of means tests for carers payments. My officials are engaging with their counterparts in the Department of Health to progress this issue and I expect the group to report back to me later this year.
The work of the group will be informed by a broader review of means testing currently underway in my Department, which is targeted for completion by Q1 of 2024, with a report to be published shortly afterwards. The work of the interdepartmental group will also be considered within the context of review of the national carers strategy, led by the Department of Health.
I trust that this clarifies the matter.
We all welcome the increase in payments and thresholds but we also understand that a significant number of people who are not on big money can be detrimentally impacted depending on where the thresholds are. I suppose that is why the Minister is looking at the interdepartmental working group. I understand that when people hear those sorts of terms, they think it is an excuse to do nothing but I have no doubt that there will be follow through. Did I catch it correctly that she is looking at means testing for her entire Department and thinks that report will be finished in the first quarter of this year?
All right. Perhaps the Minister could give an update on the timeline. She said later in the year but perhaps we could have some sort of notion of roughly when the report from the interdepartmental working group might be available.
I thank the Deputy. I have increased the threshold for the means test capital allowance for carers. I have also increased the income thresholds so that from June, a couple will be able to earn up to €900 per week and have €50,000 in savings and will still qualify for the full carer's allowance payment. The reality is that no matter where I draw the line, some people will fall on the other side of it. I do not want to see people left behind. I know women who have given up their jobs to care for children with disabilities. They do not qualify for any payment because their partners work. That is not right because the care they provide should be recognised. It is being recognised in the pension for long-term carers.
The reason I have set up this interdepartmental group with the Department of Health is to examine means testing entirely. The Deputy knows that the social welfare system is to keep people out of poverty and to provide them with a basic income. Somebody is going to have to grasp the nettle and pay carers for what they do. They make a considerable contribution when they care for somebody with a disability and cannot work. It was my idea to set up this interdepartmental group because it is not until we sit everyone around the table that we will find a way forward. That is also while I feel it is important that we vote "Yes" in the upcoming referendum. It clearly states that we want to strive to support carers. The way I see it is that what we have got, we hold, and we move forward and build on more supports for carers. That is why it is important that we vote "Yes".
It is positive that the interdepartmental working group is going to happen. In fairness, the Minister put it better than I would. Mothers and fathers are doing not only their families but also the State a significant service. We have all met people who have been forced to change the nature of their lives because of the enormous work they have to do in caring for family members who have complex additional needs. That needs to be recognised and, as I say, I welcome the moves that have been made. We must ensure we keep our eye on the goal and target and ensure we can deliver a system that works. I get it; wherever the Minister puts the thresholds, there will be a difficulty. However, a threshold that allows fewer people to be detrimentally impacted has to be considered. As I say, she can do this work and have this group up and running. It can report back to her and she can take action. All of us would welcome that as soon as possible. These are the means by which we can deliver for carers.
On the basis of what she has just said to the House, I encourage the Minister to work with her Government colleagues on this issue, in particular for those people who applied for the carer's allowance several years ago, or up to a decade ago in some cases. Over that time, that person's partner may have had an increase in salary. Many of those people do not understand that it is a means-tested payment and then inadvertently find themselves in the situation where they are beyond the threshold. They then become concerned and worried about the situation. We need to move beyond the idea that caring for somebody calls for a means tested payment. There should be a payment for caring. I encourage the Minister to work with her Government colleagues and I am happy to work with her from the Fianna Fáil perspective.
I thank the Deputies. As I said, the interdepartmental group has been set up. It is not a new idea that people should work together. They should work together but sometimes we get into Departments and look after what is specific to our areas when in actual fact, we need to take a much broader cross-government approach. I have worked hard with the carer's association, which has been extremely helpful. A lot has happened but more must be done. I cannot pay carers for the work they do. That would be impossible. However, the Department of Health has a role here. We all have to sit down and work out a pathway forward. That is why it is so important that through this referendum, we put into our Constitution that we recognise and will strive to support care in our country. That is an important statement that this Government is making on care in society.
57. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Social Protection the extent to which she is aware of a tendency to refuse applications for carer's allowance and disability allowance, which subsequently go to appeal, causing delays resulting in hardship; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7787/24]
This question is similar to the previous question. It draws attention to the fact that while all allowances are means tested, the stoppage for whatever reason of some allowances more than others can cause a seriously negative impact on the applicant. I am trying to suggest that we could take a more benign approach to ensure that when such issues go to appeal, there is something at hand to ensure that hardship is not suffered by the family affected.
I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I reassure Deputies that there is no tendency to refuse applications for carer's allowance or disability allowance in my Department. In fact, the majority of claims are granted at first decision. Approximately 10% of all claim decisions are appealed. Deciding officers are required under legislation to act independently and to make decisions in a fair and impartial manner and in accordance with criteria set in the legislation for the relevant scheme. Ongoing training and guidance is provided to ensure that the deciding officers apply these criteria correctly.
Where claims are disallowed, or allowed at a rate other than the maximum rate, the carer is given an explanation of the basis for the decision in writing. Carers are advised of their right of review and appeal of the decision. The Department has recently started to include the report of its medical assessors in the communication sent to customers. This is to assist them in understanding why the claim may have been disallowed and so that they are fully informed in making an appeal if they wish to do so.
If they make an appeal, this is considered by the social welfare appeals office, which is required under statute to act independently in its decision making. In practice, many appeals received tend to include significant additional information that was not available to the deciding officer at the time the claim was first considered. All appeals are therefore referred back to the Department in the first instance so that the original decision can be reviewed. Approximately half of all cases where the decision is reversed are reversed by the Department itself on the basis of this new information. I, therefore, encourage all people to provide as much information as possible with their claim. I assure them that the Department will take full account of the information provided and will not disallow the claim unless there are good grounds to do so.
I thank the Minister for her detailed reply. There are glitches that happen from time to time, usually in situations where an earner comes into or leaves the household intermittently. That may then cause a situation like one I had to deal with over Christmas where a household earns no money at all and has no way of getting money. The supplementary welfare system is supposed to be there to deal with such a situation but it not always possible, depending on the time and place and when public holidays fall. Such situations can occur. It was said to me in the course of discussion that the applicant in question was due a lot of money in child benefit and was due to receive it shortly.
That is not an answer to the question, though. Child benefit is a different payment altogether that has a different role and addresses a different issue. One payment should not be held up against another to say those affected have enough to proceed.
I thank the Deputy. He probably knows the social welfare system more than many of us in this House. He certainly has a great understanding of it and a great appreciation of the many, varied and difficult circumstances in which people find themselves. He regularly discusses this with me.
I would be happy to examine the specific case. If somebody says one cannot have such a payment because one is due a back payment, that is to assume the payment is coming. I will have to check the details of the specific case. I will be happy to do so because the one thing we do not want is to deprive somebody of a payment. I am very committed to that. Carers do a wonderful job. Some provide care 24-7. For others, it might not be quite as demanding, but we do want to help and support carers. I am happy to take up the case on the Deputy's behalf.
58. Deputy James O'Connor asked the Minister for Social Protection the estimated amount her Department spent on the hot school meals programme in schools in Cork East in 2023; the total number of pupils who benefited in the same schools; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7858/24]
63. Deputy Brian Leddin asked the Minister for Social Protection when primary schools not included in the April 2024 hot meals scheme expansion will have an opportunity to formally express their interest in availing of the scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7862/24]
65. Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire asked the Minister for Social Protection to provide an update on the roll-out of the hot school meals programme. [7916/24]
75. Deputy Ciarán Cannon asked the Minister for Social Protection for an update on the roll-out of hot school meals. [7884/24]
76. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Minister for Social Protection for an update on the hot school meals programme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7875/24]
80. Deputy Brendan Griffin asked the Minister for Social Protection the up-to-date position on the hot school meals programme; if she will provide details of the scheme in County Kerry; her future plans for Kerry schools; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7852/24]
Could I have an update on the roll-out of the hot school meals programme in Cork East?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 58, 63, 65, 75, 76 and 80 together.
The objective of the school meals programme is to provide regular, nutritious food to children to support them in taking full advantage of the education provided to them. The programme is an important component of policies to encourage school attendance and additional educational achievement.
It is my overriding ambition that every child born today will be able to benefit from a hot school meal when they start school. Following the expansion of the programme in recent years, some 2,600 schools and organisations, covering 443,000 children, are now eligible for funding. This is a very positive outcome considering that the scheme involved just 30 schools at pilot stage when I started expanding it. I am committed to continuing to expand the hot school meals programme and building further on its significant extension in recent years. The roll-out of the programme to all remaining DEIS primary and special schools began in September 2023. However, I am committed to expanding the programme further. All remaining primary schools were contacted last year and requested to submit an expression-of-interest form if interested in commencing the provision of hot school meals. Expressions of interest were received from over 900 primary schools in respect of 150,000 children. These schools have now been invited to participate in the hot school meals programme from April 2024. If all these schools participate, it will result in a total of 1,600 schools and 267,000 children participating.
A number of schools have been in touch with me to say that they would like to exercise their option to participate. There will also be an opportunity for all other primary schools that have subsequently expressed an interest to do so formally later this year, which will increase the numbers further.
Last year, I published an independent evaluation of the school meals programme. It sets out the positive impact the programme is having on children's education and well-being. The key findings were as follows. There is an overwhelming consensus among all participants in the evaluation that the programme is effective, and there is strong support for its extension. Overall, parents were very supportive of it. Most parents suggested their child had an improved attitude towards food, highlighting the benefits of the programme in encouraging healthy eating. Students, in their responses, praised the taste and nutritional quality of the food. Students were over twice as likely to express positive, rather than negative, feelings towards the programme. Data from principals showed that their views on the nutritional values, quality and portion sizes of the meals provided were favourable. Most principals indicated the programme improved physical health, attendance and performance.
In March 2021, my Department published the hot school meals pilot project report, having carried out a pilot project across the country. This research was carried out to understand the experience of being involved in the pilot project from the perspective of parents, teachers, principals and food suppliers. The key findings were as follows. Overall, hot meals rated highly in terms of quality, choice, portion sizes, dietary requirements and nutritional value. The vast majority of the combined total of parents, teachers and principals rated each of these aspects positively, with around a third giving a rating of excellent. Some 66% of teachers said the pilot project had a positive impact on children's diet, while over half said it positively impacted behaviour, attentiveness and psychological well-being. Some 80% of parents, teachers, SNAs and principals rated the nutritional value of the food as excellent or good, and overall the hot meals rated highly in terms of quality, choice, portion sizes, dietary requirements and nutritional value, with over a third giving a rating of excellent for each category. Over a third of parents said the hot meals pilot project had a very positive impact on their children's attendance at school, physical health and psychological well-being, while the majority of parents said the pilot project had a positive impact in each of these three areas. Overall, suppliers felt the schools were very satisfied with the quality of the food provided. Most actively sought feedback on the meals from schools to help them improve and refine their menus, and suppliers felt that, by the time the schools closed, they had strong menus, with plenty of choice available.
The nutritional standards for school meals were developed by a working group led by those behind the health and well-being programme in the Department of Health, in consultation with Safefood and those behind the Healthy Eating and Active Living Programme in the Health Service Executive. Expenditure on unhealthy food items is deducted from the following year's funding allocation. In addition, the Department has undertaken an on-site inspection programme since 2012 to ensure the scheme rules are being adhered to.
Schools are responsible for choosing their own meals supplier on the open market in a fair and transparent manner in accordance with public procurement rules. Under tender documentation, and as stipulated by the schools procurement unit, the menu is to accommodate those with food intolerances and allergies, and diets from lactose-free and vegetarian to gluten-free, for example.
The Deputies have asked specifically about Cork and Kerry. In 2022–23, 28 schools in Cork were operating the hot school meals scheme, benefiting 6,988 pupils at a cost of €3,627,664. In 2023–2024, 36 schools have been operating the hot school meals scheme, benefiting 7,856 pupils at a cost of €4.5 million.
In County Kerry, this year to date a total of 34 schools have been operating the hot meals scheme, benefiting 3,854 pupils at a cost of €2.1 million. A tabular statement listing schools in counties Cork and Kerry currently in the hot school meals scheme in 2023–2024 has been made available to the Deputies. I trust that clarifies the matter.
It certainly does.
It will be very interesting to see the response in tabular form. Deputy O'Connor sends his apologies. He has an interest in the towns of Youghal, Killeagh and Castlemartyr and in east Cork in general.
I taught in Fermoy for 12 years in a school with DEIS status. I can safely say that a large proportion of the students who attended probably got their only healthy meal when they came to school. We ran a programme for many years in the school. Staff and management of the school would tell you the meals were the only nutritious ones that many of the children got. It was great to see the programme enhanced and progressed. I would love to see it in every school. The Minister mentioned that it will be possible for schools that missed out last year to apply this year. If there is any appeals process or way of getting in at this late stage for April's allocation, the Minister might inform us.
I thank the Minister for that very comprehensive answer. I got most of it. I am sitting next to Deputy Ó Murchú, so I did not necessarily get all of it. In any event, we have regarded this area as a vital priority.
In any event, the programme is in an area that Sinn Féin sees as a priority. It is a good news story that it continues to be expanded. In the longer run, similar to Deputy O'Sullivan, I would like to see it expanded to all schools. In fairness, the Department and the Minister have done good work in this area, as did the previous Minister, but we are a long way behind comparable European countries. It is the norm in most European countries, particularly at post-primary level, for students to get a hot school meal. Not everything can be done in a single year, but is that the long-term ambition of the Minister? What is the trajectory? How will get to that stage? How many years does she foresee it will take to get to the stage where a good quality hot school meal? I have a child who benefits from the scheme and the quality is good. What is the timescale or trajectory to get it right across the board?
I thank the Minister for her response on the hot school meals programme. I compliment her on its expansion. Back in 2019, only 30 schools were involved in a small pilot. Since she took up the ministerial position in June 2020, more than 1,600 schools are availing of it so we are making real progress on this. I also welcome that last December more than 34 schools in County Mayo were added to the hot school meals programme, which is important. I will bring the Minister's attention to two schools in my local area, Castlebar Primary School and St. Joseph's National School, Derrywash. They are anxious to be included in the programme, like many others. Like other Deputies, I am anxious to know when the call for expressions of interest will reopen in 2024 because a lot of schools have contacted us. They know the benefits of this, certainly in school attendance and additional educational achievement. The budgetary allocation is testament that this Government wants to see all schools participating by 2030.
I call Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh, then Deputy Brendan Griffin and finally Deputy Paul McAuliffe.
As the Minister will be aware, all politics is local. This could not be more local. My kitchen table yesterday morning was a disaster. Everything was going well. I had made the sandwiches and then someone spotted a little bit of mould on the crust.
Cut it off.
I could have cut it off if I had copped it first, but that was it. They were in the bin then. I had to get up to Centra and buy chicken rolls. That was €7 lost on the day, so I am self-motivated. My question was about the schools that missed out on the April 2023 deadline. Like Deputy Ó Laoghaire, I want to see this in all schools. I have always been of the opinion, and it has long been Green Party policy, that when the State has them, we should feed them. It has a huge impact in areas of disadvantage. It is right and proper that we focus on those schools first but I want to see every school in the land having a hot school meal available. When will the next round be for schools to apply?
I concur with previous speakers. I thank the Minister for her work on this.
About the mouldy bread?
No, not about the mouldy bread, although I think that is how penicillin was discovered. There might be some upsides to it. Big pharma in Waterford might develop a new drug.
I thank the Minister for being so proactive in this. I was just doing the mathematics. I am not a mathematician, but break downing the €2.1 million servicing 34 schools in County Kerry where 3,854 children are benefiting, it works out at approximately €15 per week per child. That is a very small amount in the context of what the State spends but it is hugely significant. The results are amazing. If the Minister can find the finance anywhere, the expansion to other schools in Kerry and throughout the country would be money extremely well spent and well invested in the future.
Never mind the mouldy bread, we often get mouldy answers here but the Deputy is correct that it was a good answer. That is because it is a good policy and it is welcome. I have seen it in practice in schools, as have many Deputies present. It is transformative.
I also like the universality element because disadvantaged children do not always go to DEIS schools. It is important to roll the programme out. It prevents stigma and so on. One suggestion has been brought to me. There are many children in DEIS schools who receive a meal in sixth class and when they go on to post-primary, they will not necessarily receive it, even in schools where there is a high level of disadvantage. Every time I ask the Minister to spend money, she reasonably tells me there are limits to what she can do. However, in the order of priority, I ask her to give some consideration to the argument that children in a DEIS primary school who go on to a DEIS secondary school, do not come from a different home just because they move on. It might be something to consider but I do not speak against the desire to have a universal approach.
I thank all the Deputies for their contributions. Not many measures are universally popular in this House, but the hot school meals is certainly one example. When I came into the Department, 30 schools were getting hot meals and when the expansion happens in April, more than 1,600 primary schools will receive hot meals. I am firm believer in the hot dinner in the middle of the day. You cannot beat it. I was in Artane last year and we saw the children getting their hot meals. They were sitting around the tables, chatting away. They had lasagne, shepherd's pie and chicken curry and it was a great leveller because everyone got the same. I am sure those who have made lunches many times feel the same. I would have loved to have had that when I had two young girls going to school because despite my best attempts, there was blue moulded bread by the end of the week, I assure Deputies, and soggy sandwiches and despite my best efforts in sneaking crisps in, although it was a healthy eating school, to try to entice them to eat it, I got them back: return to sender. I am delighted that there are six gentlemen here all asking about the hot school meals
And making the sandwiches as well.
It was slightly different when I was doing it because mammy got the blame for the lunches and got the job as well.
Parents have enough to worry about. They are running out the door to work in the morning and when they know the child will get a good staple meal in the middle of the day, it is a huge weight off their minds. We are all busy people. It is great that we did the evaluation last year and teachers in the schools were overwhelmingly in favour of expanding the programme. For schools that did not get it in this round, I will open it again later in the year so schools can apply for the next round. There are approximately 3,000 primary schools altogether. We will have 1,600 in April if they all take up the offer and we will work our way through the rest as quickly as possible. It was planned to be rolled out up to 2030. I want to speed that up because it is a good scheme and it is important we do it for the children who are going to school today.
59. Deputy Brendan Griffin asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will outline the detail of the expansion of child benefit for over 18s in full-time education; if she will address how the scheme will apply to 18-year-olds who will turn 18 before 1 May 2024; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7851/24]
77. Deputy Emer Higgins asked the Minister for Social Protection if the expanded child benefit payments up to the age of 19 years includes those in third level education. [7785/24]
107. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Minister for Social Protection for an update on plans to extend child benefit to those continuing in secondary education but who have turned 18 years of age; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7585/24]
I thank the Minister for her comprehensive response on the previous question.
This question relates to the expansion of child benefit to over-18s in full-time education. Will the Minister outline the changes to the House and address in particular what the technical response will be to people who turn 18 before 1 May of this year?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 59, 77 and 107 together.
Child benefit is a universal monthly payment made to families with children up to the age of 16. Currently, the payment continues to be paid in respect of children until their 18th birthday where they are in full-time education or have a disability. In budget 2024, the Government decided to extend the payment of child benefit to 18-year-olds who are in full-time education or have a disability. This was one of my key priorities in the budget.
With many children now starting primary school at age five, together with the increase in pupils doing transition year, there has been an increase in the number of 18-year-olds still in secondary education. I believe the extension of child benefit to 18-year-olds in full-time education is a long-term change for the better and will support families across Ireland into the future.
This is a significant change to the child benefit scheme. It requires technical and operational changes before implementation.
We had originally provided that the change would take effect from September this year. However, I am very pleased that we are now able to bring in this important change from an earlier date and I have secured Government approval to do that. As a result, the measure will be brought in from 1 May. In the region of 60,000 children are expected to benefit from this measure annually. The additional estimated cost of bringing the commencement date forward to May is €21.6 million.
In the case of a child who turned 18 after May 2023 and who is still in full-time education, child benefit will be payable again from May 2024 up to their 19th birthday or until they leave full-time education, whichever is sooner. This might include his or her first year in university. As the measure comes into effect from 1 May, where a child turns 18 in the meantime, there will be no payment for any intervening period up to May 2024, which is the usual approach for changes to the social welfare system that take effect from a future date. The Department will be in contact with these recipients of child benefit over the coming months to advise of the next steps.
To clarify, if your child is in full-time education, be it secondary school or college, you will get the payment until he or she reaches the age of 19 providing he or she can prove he or she is in full-time education. If someone finishes secondary school in June and gets the form signed when he or she goes to college in September to say that he or she is still in either in secondary school or college, the payment will commence in September and it will be backdated for a couple of months in the intervening months. That has always been the case with child benefit because you know that you have to get it certified that your children are in full-time education. Some people have contacted me and told me that their child was 18 in January and they will not get the payment until May but if I had not done this, nobody would have benefitted so it would end at age 18. If I had left it to September, fewer people would have benefitted so in bringing it forward to May, the good news is that every family will benefit from May onwards. We all love to do these things sooner but this is a long-term change for the better. When I announced it last year in the budget, many were disappointed because they thought it was coming in straight away but now I have been able to bring it forward to May.
It is very positive news and I commend the Minister on her efforts to ensure that the scheme kicks in on 1 May. It is very welcome and I appreciate the clarification given tonight about a few aspects of it. Doing the sums, it is for the full 12 months for anyone who benefits. It is €1,680, which is a significant amount of money. It is very pertinent that it is happening now because many children are starting school at the age of five and doing the leaving certificate at the age of 18 and beyond whereas previously - certainly in my time - a lot of children might have started school at four so that is something that is relevant. On behalf of my constituents, I really appreciate the efforts made by the Minister and acknowledge the extra €21.6 million she found in the budget to ensure it kicks in on 1 May. It is one of these progressive things the Minister has achieved and I want to acknowledge it. It will be appreciated by people around the country because the year of the leaving certificate and the first year of college is a very expensive year for families so this money will be very useful.
This is something the Deputy was very keen for me to improve upon. Child benefit is one of the few tools at my disposal that I can use to support working families. As part of recent budgets, I prioritised the double payments and the lump sum payment on child benefit. As the Deputy noted, children are starting school later. Most children do not start school until they are five and then they do transition year so they are well into 18 before they are finished. I was talking to a woman the other day who told me that she uses child benefit to pay for the grinds for her daughter for the leaving certificate and she was delighted with the change. She is a working mother like most mothers and I am delighted that we were able to give her that bit of help. That is important too. We will have it ready for May and I am glad to be able to do that.
I quoted the figure of €1,680 per annum. I assume that in the event of there being bonus payments, the 18-year-olds will benefit from those payments in the same way as any other recipient of the scheme as well should they arise at any particular point. Is that correct?
Yes. If you are in payment, you will benefit from any of the double payments we had on child benefit last year. It is €140 per month per child and it is a welcome support to get. I know myself that child benefit covers many a bill or cost that comes into the house. When you are kitting out children for school, it does not matter whether they are 17 or 18. It will still cost the same amount of money to buy things like uniforms when you are getting them ready for school in September.
60. Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide an update with respect to the Green Paper on disability which has been drafted by her Department and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7912/24]
I hope the Minister might be able to provide an update regarding the Green Paper on disability that was drafted by her Department.
The Government committed as part of the roadmap for social inclusion to develop and consult on proposals to restructure long-term disability payments and to simplify the system. The proposals developed are set out in the Green Paper on disability reform.
The intention in proposing reforms to the structure of long-term payments is twofold: first, to better insulate disabled people who cannot work from poverty by providing for higher rates of payment and second, to encourage and support higher levels of employment for people with disabilities by tailoring the provision of employment supports to suit people’s capabilities. This is not a cost-cutting measure. In fact, many people will see significant increases to their payment of up to €45 per week and any engagement with employment services will be on a voluntary basis.
The Green Paper is a consultation document. No final decisions have been made. The paper’s purpose is to invite discussion, debate and suggestions. We want to hear from as many disabled people and their representatives as possible. My officials held a stakeholder event in October and four public consultation events in November last year. My Department has also been holding bilateral meetings with disabled persons' organisations, DPOs, and disability groups.
I have extended the closing date for the public consultation until 15 March 2024. This was in response to requests for an extension and to allow individuals, DPOs and disability groups time to consider their submissions. People can make a submission in writing or by video. I encourage everybody with an interest in improving the lives of people with disabilities to engage in the consultation process. I encourage everybody with an interest improving the lives of people with disabilities to engage in the consultation process. I am open to all ideas and suggestions.
I very much thank the Minister for her response on this important matter. I know that she has said on many occasions that this paper was just a proposal and a means to get that very much-needed consultation and conversation going. I sought this update from the Minister today because I attended a consultation forum with the Clare Leader Forum. A number of concerns were raised at that forum and there was a resounding "No" from all in attendance so far. Perhaps they do not have enough information about how this will be rolled out but they take real issue with the proposal for a number of reasons.
One, mainly, relates to the categorisation of disabilities. They felt that this might target them in some way and that they will have to prove their level of disability on an ongoing basis. The need for that to be medically assessed raised major concerns as they fear that they will be undoubtedly facing further waiting lists and delays in that process.
This Green Paper is for consultation only. Everything is up for discussion. No decisions have been made other than the payment as it currently stands will not reduce.
We will take on board all the submissions we have received. Already I am getting requests to further extend the consultation period. I will give consideration to that as well because some people felt that they should get longer to consider it and make their submissions. This is an inclusive process and I want to hear all the views.
People have made comparisons with the UK. What happened in the UK was very obviously a cost-cutting exercise. What this Green Paper is proposing will cost another €130 million per year. It is not a cost-saving exercise.
We will go through all the submissions. If there are clear red lines for people and we need to go back to the drawing board, that is what we will do.
I appreciate many of the Minister's comments because there are a few red flags in what the Green Paper is setting out. Maybe there is a bit of confusion there, as I have mentioned already.
The Minister has given reassurance there that all submissions will be considered. It is promising that she has already extended the deadline twice and is considering extending it further.
It is important to mention - it is not in the Minister's remit - the fact that the ratification of the optional protocol has not happened has added anguish to the situation for people with disabilities.
In Ireland, only one-in-three persons with disabilities has a job - one of the lowest shares in Europe and the OECD - which the Minister will be aware of.
There are major issues that have been expressed to me, as the representative in Clare. I hope that this Government will be able to make meaningful strides to provide greater employment opportunities for people with disabilities but, as it stands, this proposal may not be the way to go.
I thank Deputy Wynne. In case there is any doubt out there, as I said earlier, we will go through all the submissions. If there are clear red lines and it comes through loud and clear that this is not what is wanted, we will go back to the drawing board.
This was an opportunity to have a discussion to see how we can improve the situation for people with disabilities and we have to accept that there are different levels of disability. In fact, some people may be able to do a little bit of work. Some people can never work. This is about how we can target the resources at those who need it most and that they get a increased payment. Nobody will lose out on this.
It is important that we have these discussions. I am open to hearing the views of the different groups. Like all consultations, we take on board what they are saying. The purpose of this Department is to help people; it is not to put obstacles in their way.
61. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will extend the free travel scheme to children for whom child benefit is paid, and in the case of young children and their travel companions; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7898/24]
96. Deputy Brian Leddin asked the Minister for Social Protection in light of her announcement that the free travel scheme is to be extended this July to people who have never been able to drive due to a disability, her views on the idea to expand the free travel scheme to the shared bike and e-bike schemes in towns and cities across the country to the same cohort; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7861/24]
These questions are grouped. It is Question No. 96 that I am putting which has quite a different emphasis from Question No. 61 in the name of Deputy Paul Murphy.
In my question, I am asking whether, in the expansion to the free travel scheme which is to come to pass in July next, it would be possible to include bike-share schemes, either regular bikes or e-bike schemes, within that. I will understand if the Minister's answer goes in a different direction and perhaps we will tease out the individual issues afterwards.
I am taking Questions Nos. 61 and 96 together.
The free travel scheme provides free travel on the main public and private transport services for those eligible under the scheme. There are more than 1 million people with direct eligibility. The estimated expenditure on the free travel in 2024 is €104 million.
The objective of the free travel scheme is to ensure older people and people with disabilities remain active within their community. Extending the eligibility of the free travel scheme to include children would change this objective, and radically change the nature of the scheme.
In budget 2024, I expanded the free travel scheme to provide a free travel pass to people who are medically certified as not fit to drive. People qualifying under this expansion will have no requirement to be in receipt of a social welfare payment, but they must meet the other qualifying criteria. The implementation date for the measure is July 2024.
As part of the budget, my colleague, the Minister for Education, announced a significant €92 million increase in funding for school transport services. This is to provide for the additional demands for pupils with special education needs on school transport services and increased bus contractor running costs.
This funding also allows for the continuation of the reduced school transport fees for the 2024-2025 school year. This will continue to reduce the cost of sending children to school and increase the number of pupils that will avail of the school transport service.
In addition, I am aware that many operators have reduced fares for children and in some cases children under five years of age can currently travel free of charge.
Any further expansion of the free travel scheme, proposed by the Deputies and in excess of the measures announced in budget 2024, would require additional funding for the free travel scheme and would have to be considered in the context of overall budgetary negotiations.
Deputy Paul Murphy's question had quite a different thrust from my own. Mine was focusing on, as I said, bike-share scheme and e-bike schemes. I agree with the Minister's position on the other question.
That change in terms of eligibility, which will come into force in July, is really welcome and was responding to some of the recommendations from the joint Oireachtas committee. People within Epilepsy Ireland, in particular, are very grateful for that change.
I will explain why I think this could be important and a very low-cost intervention. For example, if you get off the 360 bus at Kilbarry in Waterford and you want to get across to SETU, it is quite a walk, but there is a bike scheme right there. If you are precluded from driving, let us say, through epilepsy or whatever, that is a way that you could get from Tramore to your university place quite easily. Similarly, if you get off the train in Heuston, the Dublin Bikes are right there. It is a bike-share scheme that would give you options to get to exactly where you need to go for a very low cost.
This would cost buttons and might benefit a relatively small number of people, but for that small number of people, it will be deeply felt.
Deputy Gould has a brief supplementary.
I would ask the Minister to seriously look at expanding the scheme in relation to free buses. People in Glenville, Watergrasshill and Ballyvolane in Cork are affected by its limited capacity. The Minister is looking at extending the scheme but I would certainly say that it needs to be expanded.
I have extended the scheme to those who are medically unfit and they will get the free travel pass. That was important.
I acknowledge the work of Epilepsy Ireland. I spoke to them on a number of occasions and they pointed out to me that people with epilepsy could not drive for over a year. They did a lot of work on that. I met with them, only last week, on World Epilepsy Day. We hope to invite applications for the new scheme in May. They were advocating for people with epilepsy but I was delighted I was able to expand it further.
In terms of the bikes scheme, I do not know the cost of hiring a bike.
It is €3.
The Deputy is correct, €3.
It is a subscription per day after that in most cases.
It is not a considerable cost there. I do not know how it would work out.
I am always looking at things when it comes up to budgets and I will look at that. I can discuss it further with the Deputy. I am certainly happy to consider how we can improve the situation for people who cannot drive.
