Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 7 Mar 2024

Vol. 1051 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Energy Policy

Darren O'Rourke

Ceist:

77. Deputy Darren O'Rourke asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to report on the European Commission's assessment of the draft updated National Energy and Climate Plan of Ireland (details supplied); what measures he is taking to respond to the assessments recommendations; what changes he plans to make to avoid the Commission’s assessment that Ireland’s NECP is not sufficient to meet 2030 targets; how he plans to ensure that Ireland’s share of renewable energy is sufficient to meet the 2030 target; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11411/24]

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I ask the Minister to report on the European Commission' s assessment of the draft updated national energy and climate plan. What measures is he taking to respond to the assessment's recommendations? What changes does he plan to make to avoid the Commission’s assessment that Ireland’s NECP is not sufficient to meet 2030 targets? How does he plan to ensure Ireland’s share of renewable energy is sufficient to meet the 2030 target?

Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Eamon Ryan)

I thank Deputy O'Rourke. Ireland, along with other member states, submitted its draft updated national energy and climate plan in 2023. The European Commission has issued country-specific recommendations to the member states, including Ireland, regarding their draft updated NECPs. My Department, with the assistance and contributions of colleagues across Government, is working through the Commission's recommendations with a view to addressing and incorporating them in the final updated NECP, which is due to be submitted by 30 June 2024. The SEAI is currently preparing updated modelling based on the "With existing measures" and "With additional measures" scenarios for inclusion in the final version of the NECP. Existing modelling, including that used in the draft NECP, was produced prior to the agreement of new targets under the directives. Updated modelling will show additional progress towards our new European targets.

The achievement of our new European targets is going to be challenging and may require the development of further policies in some areas. The Government remains fully committed to the achievement of our targets and has put in place extensive plans and ambitious investment programmes to deliver emission reductions, renewable energy and energy savings across all areas of our economy and society. Ireland’s ambition is outlined in our climate action plan, which is updated annually to reflect the latest developments in our climate-related policies and measures. These ambitious programmes will continue to require significant ongoing commitment from Government and across all sectors of society to meet our objectives.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. I will point to a number of the observations and assessments in this report. The report indicates there are few detailed measures in the plan, for example, to reduce gas demand. The assessment recommends Ireland "Significantly raise the ambition of a share of renewable energy sources ...", provide an indicative trajectory in that regard and "Ensure significant measures are taken ...". On the internal energy market, the report says Ireland's plan "does not indicate specific measures to accelerate the deployment of electricity storage, nor to engage the system operators in facilitating the penetration of flexibility services". How will the Government respond to the Commission's assessment in the areas of reducing gas demand, the internal energy market and storage and ambition in relation to renewables?

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I agree with the Commission's recommendations and comments. We need to recognise this first draft of the NECP only in effect took into account measures the Government had committed to up to 2021. We are now modelling "With additional measures", which we have already included in our climate action plan annual updates. They will answer a lot of the Commission's concerns regarding the need for additional ambition and further progress and measures. It has taken time to do that modelling. I regret we did not have it all in place in December of last year when we put our first draft in, but we always knew this was an iterative process and we would have that additional time and be able to put in the resources to measure and monitor what the further measures we will need to take are. They are set out in the various climate action plans. We need to deliver those and we will present those included in our NECP in June, which is the most important draft we must provide.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

Another area highlighted is fossil fuel subsidies. The report indicates there is "No date, timeline or commitment to phase out fossil fuel subsidies ...". Will the Minister give us an update in that regard? I ask him to expand on that point regarding the timeline for the updating of this NECP. This initial draft was submitted late. Is it the case the further draft is due in quarter 2 of this year?

Deputy Eamon Ryan

Yes. We will have to provide it by the end of June, as I said. We have gone out for public consultation on the first draft. That closes today. Anyone could make a submission to make their comments on it. We will publish a further draft, go out to consultation with that and then submit it before the end of June.

The Deputy is right about fossil fuel subsidies. They are a critical issue right across the world. We have looked to withdraw them in a variety of areas. An example might be our change in the use of peat in power generation. There are further measures, especially in the transport sector. That is an issue the EU is currently considering and we must work within the European context on this. It is not concluded and it is the Minister for Finance's remit because much of it relates to tax-related measures and tax supports. We are unlike our colleagues in the UK. I understand today they are deferring the reintroduction of some of the excise duties that were cut because of the cost-of-living crisis. We are on a path where we are not doing that. With any further applications about a change to fossil fuel subsidies, rebates and so on we must first of all assess the EU regulations in that regard and it is the Minister for Finance who is negotiating that in the European process.

Energy Policy

Denis Naughten

Ceist:

78. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications the steps which he is taking to enhance the domestic sourcing and production of HVO as a replacement for diesel and kerosene; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11325/24]

Deputy Denis Naughten

Hydrotreated vegetable oil is a simple replacement for both diesel and kerosene. As a renewable fuel it is a relatively cheap alternative, but because of its limited availability both here and within the EU we are not prepared to consider it as a cheap, renewable alternative to kerosene to tackle the huge challenge of converting our large number of oil-fired central heating systems.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I thank the Deputy. I understand he is primarily looking to discuss the use of HVO in the heating context and my comments may focus on that. Our climate action plan includes a range of measures to address the use of fossil fuel in heating systems in buildings and the national heat study contains the detailed analysis that is informing the development of options, policies and measures to decarbonise the heating and cooling sectors to 2050. The study considered a number of potential decarbonisation options for a wide range of dwelling and business types. This included the use of liquid biofuels such as hydrogenated vegetable oil, solid biomass, biogases and other technologies such as heat pumps and district heating systems.

The recommendation of the heat study is that heat pumps are the optimal decarbonisation path for heating systems, with district heating also being an option that can be widely deployed. There are, therefore, no current plans to provide supports for HVO in a heating context. In line with our climate action plan commitments, my Department is working on the development of a heat policy statement and a roadmap for the phase-out of fossil fuels in heating as part of the requirement to transition to zero-carbon heating by 2050 at the latest.

As the Deputy knows, there is a variety of different sectors that will seek to use HVO as a low-carbon solution. I expect it will have a significant role, particularly in hard-to-abate areas, in transport, data centres or other applications where we do not have any other easy zero-carbon alternative. We have that in the heating sector. HVO is quite a scarce resource. While the volume is not insignificant, it is a minute 1% or 2% of our overall fuel availability. It is right for us to target that scarce resource to sectors where it can have the most impact.

Deputy Denis Naughten

It is a pity the Minister did not actually respond to the question I put to him. Hopefully he will do that in his supplementary response. HVO is both relatively cheap and easy to switch. Some 90% of HVO could be blended with a 10% kerosene mix in existing oil-fired central heating systems with the cost of converting the boiler at about €300. This compares with a cost of conversion of about €80,000 for an air source heat-pump to a house built 50 or 60 years ago. However, there are issues with availability and the lack of any interest in creating a native industry to produce the fuel. We could produce rapeseed oil to meet the demand for HVO here. This would reduce biogenic methane emissions from cattle and provide a badly needed cash crop for Irish farmers. It should not be beyond our capacity in this country, with such agencies as Teagasc, to create such an industry. Will the Minister commit to doing that?

Deputy Eamon Ryan

There is nothing to stop anyone using HVO in a variety of different applications. It is a question of where we should put public money. How do we use policy measures to steer and give a direction into the next two decades as to where we are going? Heating systems, once installed, are there for a long time. The Deputy is right. HVO comes from a variety of different sources such as waste oil from the restaurant or other industries but in relatively small volumes. The international trade volume causes concern about land use, so that too is limited. Last week I was in County Meath and met a number of producers who are currently using a lot of tallow and other product that they convert into HVO. That is an absolutely optimal use. Whitegate oil refinery in County Cork has invested significantly and uses that resource in a way that is absolutely optimal. It is true, as the Deputy said, that rapeseed oil and other feedstock can provide it but again the volumes are very limited. We should be careful not to provide false promise to people that there is an endless supply or that it does not have land use implications. In those circumstances, it is best to use technologies in the best location. That is not the same as completely restricting anything or restricting the use of it, but in terms of what supports we provide or what direction we give, I believe HVO is best used in the transport and industrial sector. We have other alternatives for the heating sector that we can promote.

Deputy Denis Naughten

Even based on the current projections, by 2030 the demand for oil-fired central heating will be about 4,000 GW hours. Some 1,500 GW hours could be provided through the available HVO. That is based on conservative figures. However, the big problem here is that to date there has been an absence of any clear demand for energy crops that would attract farmers to move away from cattle, dairy mainly, but also beef production. Yet we have a shortage of feed crops for HVO production throughout Europe, a failure to meet our increased tillage acreage targets and a need to reduce the national herd to meet the Government's own 2030 climate targets. I previously did an assessment of converting our three peat-fired power plants to 100% biomass. That would displace 600,000 tonnes of carbon each year from beef production and generate €465 per ha for farmers with a price of carbon at €100 per tonne.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I agree with the Deputy. The use of biomass in power generation has a role. The main example we have at the moment is the Edenderry power plant, managed by Bord na Móna, which was designed to be 100% biomass compatible and has done exactly that. We switched away from the burning of peat in it. We are using 100% wood material now. I met Bord na Móna on this issue last week and I am told it is working very effectively. It is using a lot of relatively low-grade waste wood material. There is a huge potential opportunity for us to look now at storing some of the carbon emissions from that plant. Then we will have a carbon-negative power plant. I agree that sort of use of biomass in power generation to actually save and reduce emissions has a real future. Bord na Móna is on top of that and delivering it. I do not believe that relates in a sense to the HVO issue because that is a wood-waste material which does not impact on the rest of the agricultural sector. I agree that we are going to have much more growing of biofuel crops. Oilseed rape, for example, is a very attractive crop for farmers. I believe it can provide a good break crop. The sectors that will pay the highest premium for that - the industrial and transport sectors - can, will and should give farmers the incentive to get a good solid return from their work in growing it. The use in those sectors makes much more sense than in the heat sector.

Recycling Policy

Darren O'Rourke

Ceist:

79. Deputy Darren O'Rourke asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications about the deposit return scheme; to provide an update of his Department’s work to assess the operation of the scheme since its inception; to report on the work on the consultative group to ensure that concerns of those with accessibility issues are heard; to provide an update on the review of the scheme's infrastructure by disability organisations; to report on how his Department will monitor how unredeemed deposits are used; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11412/24]

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I wish to ask the Minister about the deposit return scheme and ask for an update of his Department’s work to assess the operation of the scheme since its inception. Will the Minister report on the work of the consultative group to ensure that the concerns of those with accessibility issues are heard and provide an update on the review of the scheme's infrastructure by disability organisations? Will the Minister also report on how his Department will monitor how unredeemed deposits are used? Will the Minister make a statement on the matter?

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Ossian Smyth)

Formal monitoring and reporting arrangements are in place to ensure that regular reports, both financial and performance, are received from Re-Turn, the scheme operator for Ireland's Deposit Return Scheme, DRS.

DRS is a national infrastructure project which operates primarily on a return-to-retail model. Under the DRS regulations, retailers are required to charge customers a deposit for each bottle sold, to take back empty containers, unless exempt, and to refund the deposit to customers. Retailers are required to ensure that the take-back facility they provide on their premises is accessible for anyone wishing to return empty containers. Inclusivity for all consumers is essential for a successful deposit return scheme. Individuals who have difficulties in returning bottles and cans to their local retailer should contact Re-Turn directly and it will work with the local retail community to find a solution that works for all involved.

Re-Turn is committed to ensuring that all locations are accessible to consumers and is working closely with retailers to embed best practice, ensuring that nationally the system is optimised in terms of convenience and accessibility for all. Re-Turn, the DRS operator, continues to engage widely with all stakeholders and has committed to review accessibility practices considering the needs of consumers. This review includes working with the National Disability Authority, which is supporting Re-Turn in the establishment of a consultative group to ensure that the concerns of all parties, in particular those who have difficulties accessing the DRS and in returning bottles and cans, are heard and addressed. I understand that Re-Turn intends to convene a meeting of this forum in the second half of March and has invited a number of disability organisations to assist in a review of the scheme’s infrastructure. Both the Department and Re-Turn will monitor the issue closely as the scheme builds momentum in the coming months.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I thank the Minister of State. It is important that these issues are recognised. They have been raised in a number of forums with myself and a number of colleagues, particularly the piece on accessibility for people with disabilities. I welcome the fact that there is going to be engagement on them. I look forward to seeing practical measures implemented that address those issues. More widely, there has been significant coverage of the teething problems with the scheme, particularly in regard to international bar codes. People are having the experience of going back to the DRS but their cans or bottles are not accepted into the scheme. Will the Minister of State give us an update in relation to that? I understand there is an issue with the database of barcodes in the first instance, and that is being updated. What should people do in those instances? Will this be resolved when we move to the full suite of properly labelled bottles and cans?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

Those are all very reasonable questions. We are in the changeover period for this scheme. The changeover period is four months long. The reason there is a changeover period is so that the old stock on the shelves of the supermarkets can be sold off and at the same time the new stock which has the logos and the new bar codes is coming in. We could not change over overnight because that would have required dumping all the old stock. There would have been a lot of food waste so we had to pick a period of time for that changeover.

We chose a period of four months. We looked at other countries and saw that some of them had shorter periods, while others had longer periods. We think we chose the best length of time.

It is clear there are people who have bottles and cans at home. Half of the bottles and cans have logos while the other half do not. It is confusing when people bring them back to the shop. It is disappointing that half a person's products return money while the other half do not. There is a learning curve, particularly for retailers. Retailers have machines in place. It is like having a new photocopier in an office and not knowing how to change the paper. There was a very low volume of use at the very start but the number of people bringing back cans and bottles is now rapidly increasing. On the first day of the scheme, 5,000 cans and bottles were brought back. On the most recent day for which we have figures, more than 300,000 were brought back. Later in the year, the figure will probably be approximately 3 million or 4 million per day.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I thank the Minister of State. How many bottles and cans have been returned to date? I heard it is in the region of 2 million. I ask the Minister of State to provide an update in that regard. Some people have made the reasonable point that they were already recycling. What is the argument of the Minister of State in that regard? Is it that the scheme will reduce contamination? Is it that it will increase the overall level of recycling? Is that the stated objective here? I have been contacted by football clubs, third level institutions and other organisations other than retail centres that would like to be part of the scheme. Are there plans to allow such bodies to be part of the scheme?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

As regards the number of cans and bottles that have been brought back, it is 1.8 million plastic bottles and 2 million cans. That is double what it was a few days ago, which shows the rate of increase. The Deputy asked how it works for people who are already putting bottles and cans into the recycle bin in their kitchen and the objective of the whole plan. The problem is that although approximately 60% of the bottles and cans were going back into those bins, approximately one in three were ending up in the landscape and the environment. That is partly because a very large volume of cans and bottles are being consumed on the go. Approximately 5 million bottles and cans are sold every day for single-use drinks. That is one for every person in the country. Unfortunately, approximately 2 million of those were not making it into recycling. The objective is to increase the rate of recycling of those bottles and cans by 50%, which will also meet EU targets.

As regards sports clubs, it would be ideal for GAA, soccer or other sports clubs to have a machine in place and for the proceeds from the bottles and cans returned to go towards funding the club. I have met with a sustainability officer the GAA on that issue and we are working to deliver that scheme. I have detected a significant amount of enthusiasm and it would be a very practical thing to do.

Illegal Dumping

Noel Grealish

Ceist:

80. Deputy Noel Grealish asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications what additional resources will be given to local authorities to better enforce illegal dumping laws following the introduction of legislation clearing the way for the use of drones, CCTV and other technologies in detecting offenders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11050/24]

Deputy Noel Grealish

What additional resources will be given to local authorities to better enforce illegal dumping laws following the introduction of legislation clearing the way for the use of drones, CCTV and other technology in detecting offenders?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

While the primary responsibility for management and enforcement responses to illegal dumping, including any decision to deploy CCTV and other technologies, lies with local authorities, my Department continues to provide extensive policy, financial and legislative support to the local authority sector to support its efforts. Almost €18 million has been provided to local authorities under the anti-dumping initiative since it was first introduced in 2017, including more than €2.8 million last year alone. This is to encourage a collaborative approach between local authorities, community groups and other State agencies to tackling the problem of illegal dumping. While allocation for the current year is still to be finalised, I expect that an amount similar to that provided last year, approximately €2.8 million, will be made available.

My Department continues to invest heavily in the local authority waste enforcement network through the local authority waste enforcement measures grant scheme, with the intention of maintaining a visible presence of waste enforcement personnel on the ground across the State. A total of €7.7 million has been allocated to local authorities for 2024. A further €3.8 million has been allocated this year to support the enhancement of the role, responsibilities and staffing complement of the three waste enforcement regional lead authorities and to support the local authority waste programme co-ordination office. My Department has agreed to support these measures in order to position the local authority sector to better respond to emerging and priority enforcement challenges, including tackling the scourge of illegal dumping. My Department also supports local authority efforts to tackle litter through the anti-litter and anti-graffiti awareness grant scheme. In 2023, €750,000 was provided under this scheme, with a similar amount expected to be made available in 2024.

Deputy Noel Grealish

I have raised several times in the House the issue of illegal dumping and the need for local authorities to be allowed to use CCTV footage to help to prosecute offenders in the courts. It has taken a long time but, finally, councils are to be legally permitted to use this and similar technologies in their efforts to clamp down on this scourge, which is destroying the countryside and towns. Unless councils are given extra resources to use and monitor these technologies, however, it will have been a toothless exercise. Will the Minister commit to allocating extra funding to each local authority to enable them to launch campaigns against illegal duping? It is the scourge of the countryside, towns and villages and, unfortunately, neither the councils nor the Garda Síochána have the resources to set up checkpoints to catch the people carrying out illegal dumping. I drove through a particular part of the country on my way home from Dublin last week. The amount of rubbish dumped on the side of the road was scandalous. We have to catch these people and stop illegal dumping.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I absolutely agree with the Deputy. I feel angry and ashamed when I see rubbish that has been dumped, often commercially for profit. We cannot reach those people through awareness campaigns. They know they are doing the wrong thing. The only way we can reach them is through gathering evidence that is admissible in court to obtain prosecution. We could not do that in the past because the challenge was that we were breaching their privacy. We needed primary legislation to deal with that. We now finally have that legislation. As of today, local authorities are empowered to set up these schemes and put in CCTV cameras. As I stated, more than €10 million in funding has been provided for anti-dumping initiatives and enforcement. If a local authority is still having difficulty, it can contact my Department. We should remember that local authorities are very good at this. They know how to install CCTV; it is a part of their competence. Now that they have the ability to catch people who are despoiling the countryside, that will be of interest.

I ask members of the public who know of a black spot for litter or dumping in their area to contact their local authority and ask it to put in CCTV under the scheme in order to catch those carrying out the dumping.

Deputy Noel Grealish

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It has been estimated that it is costing local authorities throughout the country tens of millions of euro to clean up after people who are carrying out illegal dumping. I have raised previously in the House with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, who is seated beside the Minister of State, and on Leaders' Questions the issue of what is happening on the outskirts of Galway city, in Brocklagh, Castlegar, where there is constant illegal dumping and burning of tyres, copper wire and all sorts of other rubbish, including furniture and so on. The smoke that comes in over Galway city is horrendous. The damage that is doing to the environment, in terms of both air and ground pollution, is unreal. I have met Galway County Council and senior gardaí in Galway. Have the local authorities and the Garda Síochána the power to confiscate the vehicles of those they catch carrying illegal waste with the intention of dumping it on the side of the road or burning it? I believe there is a power under the legislation for local authorities and the Garda Síochána to seize a vehicle if they believe it is involved in illegal dumping. As I always say here, we should hit them where it hurts. If the vehicles are taken from these people, it will not take them long to stop dumping illegally.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

As the Deputy is aware, a licence from the national waste collection permit office in County Offaly is required in order to collect waste. If the terms of that licence are breached, steps can be taken. I will find out whether a vehicle can be seized and revert to the Deputy with that information. In the case of Castlegar, I urge people in the area to ask the local authority to put in CCTV-----

Deputy Noel Grealish

They did so.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

-----to catch those carrying out illegal dumping. In the case of commercial dumping, there are stronger powers for local authorities, in that they can use drones and bodycams. Many of those involved in this activity are dangerous criminals and it is difficult for local authority staff to approach them directly or gather the evidence. The dumping may be going on behind high fences. That is why drones are required. It is a serious offence.

There is an extended producer responsibility, EPR, scheme for tyres. There is a take-back scheme for them. That has been extended beyond car tyres to all types of tyres. Those types of schemes, particularly those that apply to cars, are leading to a very high rate of take-back compared with the days in the 1980s when one would see cars dumped in fields. I want to see an extended producer responsibility scheme for mattresses, which comprise a large part of the materials we see dumped in fields. We know the EPR schemes are very effective.

Deputy Noel Grealish

I will send the Minister of State the pictures and the video recording. He will be shocked.