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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 7 Mar 2024

Vol. 1051 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

Last week, it was confirmed for the first time that agents of the British state were involved in the murder of Sean Brown and that up to 25 people can be linked by intelligence to that murder. I commend the family of Sean Brown, who have remained steadfast in their pursuit of justice and the truth for more than 27 years. Revelations of collusion between MI5 and loyalists this week resulted in the coroner halting the inquest. The coroner did so because MI5 has refused for over a year to supply vital information it has in relation to the killing. The coroner has now called on the British Government to order a public inquiry into the killing of Sean Brown. Sinn Féin supports that call. Has the Tánaiste or anyone else in the Government been in contact with the British since the coroner's call was made? If not, will the Irish Government intervene speedily to ensure the British Government knows that this State stands with the Brown family in their pursuit of justice and supports the call for a public inquiry?

This State stands with the family of Sean Brown. I am aware of the coroner's call and that he has decided he can no longer carry out an Article 2-compliant inquest and that he wrote to the Secretary of State seeking a public inquiry. I support that. I will ask my officials to meet the family as soon as possible to hear their concerns and to discuss how we can support them. I am aware that an interim report of Operation Kenova is due to be published by the PSNI tomorrow. I welcome the strong focus in that investigation on victims and their families, about which Jon Boutcher spoke when he led that team and which his successor, Sir Iain Livingstone, has also said guides him as the new lead. Many of the victims said to me that they were very impressed with the manner in which Jon Boutcher carried out the investigation into Kenova. The needs of victims have always been to the fore of the Government's response. That is why we took an inter-state case in respect of that.

Will the Government meet the British? That is the question. Will the Tánaiste please answer the question for the family? Will the Government meet the British? I ask the Tánaiste, with respect, to please answer.

We are over time. The Deputy will have to come back. I call Deputy Duncan Smith.

The family would like to know.

The Deputy knows the issue.

I do know the issue, but I would like the Government to say it will reach out.

Deputy Smith, without interruption - or I will not continue.

I would like to open by expressing our sincere condolences with the family of Saoírse Ruane. Young Saoírse touched the heart of the nation when she appeared on the "Late Late Toy Show" in 2020 and spoke about her experience with cancer. Cancer is a disease that has impacted every family in some manner. We need to do everything possible to work towards a world in which this is not the case. This means we need a strong, funded national cancer strategy. This is a priority of the Oireachtas cross-party group on cancer. March is the month during which we think about and fundraise for cancer, with 22 March being Daffodil Day, the biggest fundraising day for the Irish Cancer Society. I ask the Government to mark 22 March 2024 with an early and firm commitment that there will be an increased and ring-fenced multiannual funding provision for our national cancer strategy in budget 2025 and beyond. Will the Tánaiste make that commitment?

I thank the Deputy for his comments. We spoke earlier about the inspirational legacy that young Saoírse leaves behind. Our sympathies are with Saoírse's family. Since we started national cancer strategies in the late 1990s and through the 2000s, with various levels of progress being made, there has been a transformation in cancer care which has led to a significant reduction in mortality and growing good outcomes for survival of a variety of cancers, which has to be welcomed. This emphasises the need for continuing the strategic approach to health. I refer to the latest publication from the Department of Health, namely, Healthy Ireland, which shows dramatic improvements in respect of treating cancer and heart disease. Those improvements are all because of national strategies. The strategies need to be funded on a multi-annual basis, a move which I would support.

House prices and rents are at record highs. Nothing the Government does seems to have an impact on affordability. In fact, all of its policies seem to be designed to do one thing, namely, drive prices even higher. The figures say it all. Since the Government took office, house prices have increased by 25%. That is an increase of nearly €70,000 since 2020. Rents for new tenancies are up by more than €4,200 per year. People now have to come up with an extra €4,000 per year for rent, while trying to buy a house that costs an average of €70,000 more than before this Government took office. That is the Government record on housing. The Tánaiste says he is interested in delivering affordable homes but the Government has missed its social and affordable housing targets every year. We are still waiting for the figures to be published for last year. When will they be published? What is the delay?

We exceeded our targets for housebuilding last year, with close to 33,000 being built in 2023. Up to 143,000 houses have been constructed since we came to office.

How many were social and affordable?

There was a record 10,000 social houses in 2022. Last year, we delivered 12,000 social houses. We are now getting to a stage-----

How many affordable?

Social. Please let me finish. In the context of the first home scheme and help-to-buy scheme, we have reached the stage of record levels in the drawdown of mortgages by first-time buyers. We have to do more because the population is increasing. We are working extremely hard-----

When will the Government publish the figures?

-----with a variety of measures to increase affordability and enable young people to afford a house.

Is the Tánaiste saying that the figures are not going to be published?

We know we are not there yet and a lot more needs to be done.

The Tánaiste did not answer the question.

There is no doubt there has been a significant change in the three years post Covid-----

Will the Government publish the affordable figures?

-----and taking Covid into account.

It is shameful that the Taoiseach and other Government and Opposition representatives are going to the White House to celebrate St. Patrick's Day with Joe Biden who he is complicit in the genocidal massacre Israel has conducted against the people of Gaza. It will be even worse if it is revealed the recent massive jump in the number of flights carrying weapons through Irish airspace has anything to do with the massacre in Gaza.

There was a significant jump in the number of flights carrying weapons that went mostly through Shannon last year in comparison with previous years. There was a particular jump in October, when 180 flights went through the airport. Is this a coincidence in the context of the escalation in US military support for Israel's genocidal slaughter in Gaza?

I thank the Deputy. The Tánaiste to reply.

Are we checking this? Are we complicit with the genocide?

I do not believe it is shameful for the Taoiseach to go to the White House. The Palestinian ambassador believes we should go the White House, and we should.

She did not say that.

I did not interrupt the Deputy.

I went to Washington three weeks ago and met officials in the White House. I also met Senators and Congressmen. Why? I did it to give them our perspective, but also to get their sense of what is happening. The Deputy will not like to hear this, but notwithstanding everything and the politics of America and Israel and the strength of Israel in American politics, many American politicians want this to end. They want it to end quickly. That is the first point.

The Deputy lacks some degree of credibility in the sense that he correctly condemns what is happening in Gaza but has never publicly condemned Hamas for what it did on 7 October. In fact, his party and others have used language that is tantamount to condoning what Hamas did, or at least they give it as a background-----

-----for why the attacks on 7 October happened.

I thank the Tánaiste. We are over time.

I am assured that no weapons-----

No, we are over time.

-----are going to Gaza via Shannon.

We are over time. I thank the Tánaiste. We are moving on to the Regional Group. Deputy Berry is not indicating. We are going to waste the opportunity. We move to the Rural Independent Group and an Teachta McGrath.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. There are no driving test taking place at Clonmel's driver testing centre this week. Last year, in a blaze of glory, the Government said it was going to appoint 75 new testers across the country. That never happened. The opposite happened at the Clonmel centre, where one excellent tester was let go. The only tester left in Clonmel is on annual leave this week, so not one test, not ceann amháin, will be carried at the Clonmel driver testing centre. This beggars belief. The RSA is out there passing rules and coming up with new changes every day of the week, but will not recruit and retain an adequate number of testers. People who want to go to work, go to college or do anything need to get on the road because, as the Tánaiste knows, we have no or very little public transport in rural areas. The RSA is allowed do this. It has contracts with the Government and should be made honour them and not be telling us it has recruited 75 when half that number was not recruited and then, as I said, seven were let go, including one in Clonmel. It beggars belief the RSA can do this when we have people waiting six months for tests. All of south Tipperary and west Waterford come into the Clonmel centre.

I thank the Deputy.

We have good testers there and now they are being neglected.

The Department of Transport did respond swiftly. The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, has been very active on this.

Give the figures.

Some 75 additional driver tester posts were sanctioned in March of last year.

Were they recruited?

That is only 12 months ago. That is in addition to the 30 permanent testers who were previously sanctioned in July 2022. The total sanctioned driver tester posts now is 205. Obviously, it takes time to recruit people and so on, but that 205 figure is now double the 100 sanctioned driver tester posts-----

Why are the lists so long then?

-----in June 2022. The Deputy should at least acknowledge that

Why are the lists so long?

The person in Clonmel who is on annual leave is entitled-----

-----to take annual leave and I hope the Deputy accepts that.

There is a significant reduction in the national average waiting time, from a high of 30.4 weeks in August last to 16.9 weeks at the end of February. That is a big improvement. It is still too high-----

It is 28 weeks in Clonmel.

-----but we are working on that. It is because of the extra capacity in the system. Some 41 additional testers have joined since September of last year.

Tomorrow or next week, because of a change introduced by the RSA, tractor drivers working on sites throughout the country will have to have lorry licences. This came up on a website on Tuesday night and it has caused consternation. It takes 14 months to get the two tests a person would need in order to comply with this. The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, is aware of that and the Minister, Deputy Ryan, is aware of it. Will the Tánaiste get involved? Ministers are going abroad next week. Does the Tánaiste want to see housebuilding, utility works and road works coming to an end because 4,000 people will not be able to drive those tractors next week? There needs to be a bit of cop-on. Someone in the RSA went on a power drive of their own. The Minister and Minister of State did not even know about it when I contacted them. We have given them the information.

I thank the Deputy.

Will the Tánaiste get involved in this today to make sure before this week is out that this is reversed?

I thank the Deputy. The Tánaiste to respond.

Either that or there are 4,000 people out of work and that is a fact.

Too many cooks can spoil the broth in the sense that the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, is aware of it and the Minister, Deputy Ryan, is aware of it. I will-----

You might be aware of it as well, but 4,000 people is a fair amount.

-----discuss the issue with them, but I have no doubt the Minister of State will examine this and will come up with a workable solution for people. The RSA is the Road Safety Authority, so it-----

Sorry, I am answering you.

The Ministers should know what it is doing.

I am talking to you and making the point. Sometimes people listening in may not realise what the hell the RSA is. It is the Road Safety Authority. Everything the authority does is through the lens of safety. However, politically we have to-----

So the lens of safety-----

I am not finished, Deputy. Through that lens, then, the political world and the Executive must look at proposals to ensure there is balance and practicality and that there is a proper system there so something is not just bounced on people overnight, as you have said.

This topic is finished now. Deputy Higgins is next.

I am standing here yet again to ask for updates on 12 schools in my area. I raised this as a Topical Issue recently and the Ceann Comhairle suggested the Department host a briefing meeting with me. I am thankful for the note the Department provided, but, as usual, there is no new information, no action plan for progress, no timelines and no meeting has been set up. Meanwhile, the parents at Lucan Community College have resorted to an online petition to put pressure on the Minister to issue the letter of intent in order that their plans for an extension and refurbishment can continue. Since then the Tánaiste has visited my old secondary school, the Holy Family Community School in Rathcoole, which is still waiting for approval for its approved contractor to just begin construction. We are still in the dark. We do not know what is holding in order that we can maybe overcome it?

Go raibh maith agat.

The budget is there. The plans are there. All these schools are waiting for is the go-ahead from the Department.

Lucan Community College-----

-----Holy Family Community School------

The Tánaiste to respond.

-----Griffeen Community College, Coláiste Pobail Fóla, Gaelscoil Chluain Dolcáin, the gaelscoil campus in Clondalkin-----

Deputy, there are two minutes.

-----Divine Mercy senior and junior schools, St. Thomas's SNS, Scoil Áine-----

Deputy, the time is up.

Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is the problem-----

Do you know what we will do?

-----the list goes on and on and I cannot get-----

We will let you have the time and-----

------I cannot get updates for these schools that so badly need this.

We will let you have the time but you have just used up your time. If he can do so, I ask the Tánaiste to reply in 30 seconds.

Very quickly. Additional capital will be required. The Minister is in discussion with the Minister for public expenditure on a constructive basis to secure additional capital to greenlight quite a number of projects. This similarly happened last year and quite a range of projects was approved on that basis. That is where it is at the moment.

Go raibh maith agat. Anois, an Teachta Ó Cathasaigh. Nóimead amháin.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. On 14 February I wrote to the Tánaiste and other Ministers and Ministers of State. The letter was cosigned by a number of my Green Party colleagues. In the letter we called on Ministers to take the opportunity afforded by St. Patrick's Day to reiterate the position of the Irish Government, supported by the Irish people, on Gaza. We have three asks, namely, that there should be an immediate humanitarian ceasefire with a pathway to a lasting peace, that all participants in the conflict should be held to account for their actions under humanitarian law and that there should be an immediate release of all hostages held in Gaza.

Ireland has always been a powerful voice for peace on the international stage. This is an opportunity very few countries of our size have to carry that message to the centres of power. I have received letters of acknowledgement, but I have not received a substantive response from the Tánaiste's office or from any of the others. I take this opportunity to encourage the Government to use St. Patrick's Day to bring this message to the corridors of power all across the world.

To be fair, the Government's position is unequivocal. I have communicated to the US Government our position on the need for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. I have no doubt the Taoiseach will do likewise. Obviously, we will see what the position is on St. Patrick's Day. There must be an immediate humanitarian ceasefire and all parties must be held to account. The Government has already said this publicly. We have participated-----

Will all Ministers bring that message with them?

Yes, there will be a message for all Ministers in every jurisdiction.

They will have a clear message from the Government on what to articulate and the Government's position and Ireland's position in regard to holding Israel to account on what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank, holding Hamas to account in respect of what happened on 7 October, and of course the immediate release of hostages, which we have called for consistently since 7 October. Generally speaking, people should not be held hostage or shot. It is an appalling crime in itself.

I join Deputy Higgins in calling for a new extension and the refurbishment of the existing building in Lucan Community College. I have to point out to the Deputy that you are in a party of Government that has been in government for the past 13 years, that has seen the list that goes on and on and the failures-----

I have been a Member of this House for four years.

-----in our communities, where we have seen ten or 12 schools that have been left behind. I would like to know when Lucan Community College is going to get this extension. When will the contractor be confirmed for approval? This long delay may need the tender process to go on longer. The people in the Dublin Mid-West constituency have been let down by the Tánaiste's Government and by Deputy Emer Higgins's Government-----

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, why is he allowed talk to me like this? Is this not through the Chair?

-----over successive terms. We are waiting 13 years for this to happen. We need to see the educational needs of Dublin Mid-West met.

So much for working together.

Please stop this. I will let the clock run and none of the Deputy's colleagues will get in because I am going to stop on time. If we could not personalise it, that would be helpful. We will stick with the issue.

That is the issue.

Please. It is Questions on Policy or Legislation. The clock is running. I will not stay longer today.

I appreciate the Deputies raising these issue. I have to point out that since this Government came to power, there has been record allocation of capital funding to education in respect of new school projects and indeed in areas of special education, particularly new capital projects in special education. The population is growing. Inflation was quite dramatic in the past two years. There will be significant increases in 2024. The objective is to get these projects sanctioned and green-lighted. I believe that will happen before long.

The difficulty in accessing new cancer-treating drugs in this country from time to time has already been raised this morning in this House and in other locations. It was already mentioned by Deputy Doherty in the House. Will the Tánaiste use his good offices with the European Commission to ensure the attributes of the Single Market are made available, which they are entitled to be, in this country as in every other country in the EU. There should not be differentiation on the basis of different countries. Each territory should have access to the Single Market equally.

The Single Market has evolved in different sectors at different paces and to varying degrees. In health, governments have always retained the idea of national competency, especially in the area of medicine approvals. We spend €3 billion annually on medicines in Ireland. By definition, I can understand why governments would want to have some oversight of such a large expenditure as that.

It is now more than 900 days since Ireland's plan for the allocation of the EU's recovery fund was signed off. Mr. Chris MacManus, MEP, has been raising this issue continually since then. The EU informs us that €225 billion has been allocated so far. Yet, Ireland is one of only three countries not to have received a disbursement. This is a damning indictment of the Government failing to draw down what is our allocation. Why is there such a delay in applying? Is the Government confident at this stage that Ireland will even have time to draw down our funds by the deadline?

Yes, I am. Obviously the projects are in train. We will draw down the funding we were allocated in the Recovery and Resilience Facility.

On 3 October I brought to the attention of the Department of Education that there will be a shortfall of at least 72 secondary school places in the Greystones area. We have had a number of interactions with the Department since then. The latest was on 8 February when the Department told us it was working on plans to accommodate those children. We have since seen two additional classes allocated to the town. However, there are still between 22 and 30 children who do not have a place for secondary school in September of this year. They are incredibly stressed and worried about where they are going to go. Four hundred of their peers know what secondary school they will go to but these children do not have any information as of yet. When will parents and students be told where that final allocation of secondary school places will be?

It can be a stressful situation for families and young children who are progressing into second level in this case. It is early March. It is hoped that will be resolved in the next month or two to give certainty to those kids. I will alert the Minister for Education to the question the Deputy asked.

The Tánaiste might remember in 2020 and 2021 SouthDoc Blackpool was closed. After a strong campaign by residents on the northside of Cork, it reopened later in 2021. At the time, the HSE said the closure posed a serious risk of unnecessary presentations to acute hospitals. More recently I have been contacted by constituents who told me they cannot see a doctor in SouthDoc and staff have also told me SouthDoc Blackpool is closed in all but name. On 29 February, I asked the Minister for Health whether there was any information on a reduction in service, the Minister said there was not. However, I received a parliamentary question this week that shows, on average, approximately 1,400 patients were seen in SouthDoc Blackpool in 2022 and 2023. However, in 2024 only 400 patients were seen.

That means SouthDoc Blackpool is closed, when the hospitals and the emergency departments are full and people cannot get an appointment.

Deputy, there are colleagues after you. I am sorry to cut you off but we are gone past the time.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. The facility of enhanced community care in the old orthopaedic hospital in Gurranabraher, has been a fantastic innovation on the northside in respect of people with chronic illnesses in particular.

This is out of hours.

I know. I set it up, as Minister for Health 20 years ago, so I know all about it.

It is closed again.

I established SouthDoc. I do not know whether the Deputy spoke to the local GPs about how they feel it is operating. I will talk to the GPs locally and we will talk to the HSE and examine the situation to see what can be done and what the optimal way to provide treatment is.

I wish to raise the issue of hospitals not providing transport for patients on discharge. I have a patient who attended St. Luke's Hospital, Kilkenny. She had an irregular heartbeat and chest pains. She was discharged home. She was put into a taxi which cost €99. She had to pay it. The hospital has no transport. It is a huge concern. Previously she has gone to hospitals in Naas and Portlaoise, and when discharged, both hospitals supplied transport. Why is there not a standard charge for people who need the service? In this case, in the hospital the patient sat beside another patient who was receiving a hospital taxi and offered to share it. The hospital refused, saying it does not share taxis. This is a huge issue for people who have no transport. A man I know had a family member in hospital. He had to take a half-day off work, he was at the loss of the money, and there was no transport home.

I appreciate the Deputy raising this issue. I am not aware of the specifics of the case. Transport is not provided in every situation, but it can be provided in certain situations. I will alert the Minister to this and he will get back to the Deputy.

The patient safety (licensing) Bill was approved in principle by the Government in 2017. It came before the health committee in 2018. The pre-legislative scrutiny took place. It was sent to the Attorney General's office but no progress has been made since. RTÉ's "Prime Time" programme on Monday night clearly showed there is a real deficiency in the regulation of cosmetic procedures and the availability of drugs and medication in that whole area. There is an urgent need for that Bill to be brought forward and dealt with. I ask that it be given priority.

I will talk to the Minister for Health and we will get a reply back for the Deputy on the situation in that specific issue.

I raise the issue of Naas Mercy Convent Primary School. Many schools throughout the country and indeed in County Kildare are looking for new school buildings and new supports. This school is in the bizarre position of having a new building on site, already constructed.

Due to a row with the contractor, developments broke down in 2020 and the building never opened. The children and teachers are in prefabs, looking at a brand new building right beside them but are unable to get access to it or use it. The Department needs to progress this matter. I have been in regular contact with the Minister, Deputy Foley, and I know her Department is working on it, but I would welcome an assurance that the Government will do all in its power to get this building open. An opening in September 2024 is unrealistic, but it should open in September 2025. The building is ready to go.

Is the building complete?

It is complete. To date, €9 million has been spent. Money is now being spent on security and maintenance to manage and protect the building while the children go to school in prefabs across the yard from it.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It clearly deserves to be highlighted and profiled. This is a very unusual position, where a building is complete. The Deputy is saying there is a contractual row with the contractor.

Obviously people are probably adverse to making public comments that might increase the leverage of one party or the other, particularly the contractor in this case, but it is clear the situation is absurd and something needs to happen there.

The 50th anniversary of the darkest day of all during the era known as the Troubles, when 33 innocent people were murdered and hundreds badly injured in bombings in Monaghan and Dublin, will be marked on 17 May. The Government needs to continue to reassure victims and families of victims that we will relentlessly pursue the need for truth and justice. That message has to be reinforced with every engagement with the British Government. I recently spoke to the Tánaiste at the request of Patsy McGlone MLA regarding the need for the Government to support the request for a public inquiry into the death of Sean Brown, a highly regarded GAA activist in Derry. We must show that we stand with Sean's widow, Bridie, her family and friends, Bellaghy GAA club and the wider community in Derry.

To be fair, the Deputy contacted me during the week in respect of the Sean Brown case and he has been consistent regarding the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in seeking answers from the British Government regarding that terrible atrocity. In the Sean Brown case, I support the family in its quest for an inquiry. We would have preferred if both Governments and all the political parties in Northern Ireland could have agreed to a proper legacy facility and mechanism. The British Government and the Irish Government did not see eye to eye on the British Government's proposal, which was a unilateral proposal. Hence, unfortunately, we then had no option but to take an interstate case. The overall issue of legacy is not satisfactory at the moment.

In recent weeks, there have been quite startling reports regarding accommodation for young people and Tusla. These facilities have been deemed inappropriate and unsuitable. Enormous amounts of money, up to €50 million a year, go towards these providers. Some of the providers have been struck off in the context of the service they provide. This is a very serious issue. Obviously, it involves very vulnerable children. Is it now time to reconsider the model of outsourcing and privatising services, especially those for young children? Why are these facilities outsourced? Why can the HSE or the Department of Health not run them, rather than outsourcing them?

I am sure the Tánaiste, as Minister for Defence, and all Members of the House welcome the increase in the age threshold from 60 to 62 in respect of mandatory-----

It is earlier than 60, is it not?

I have allowed the Deputy to quickly ask his question. We are over time.

What is the timeline in that regard? I am dealing with a specific issue relating to John Molloy, a former member of the Defence Forces and the fire station officer in Dunleer. The station is operating with the minimum crew number of five, of which he is one, and there is no one to replace him. He will turn 60 on 24 May. The sooner the change to which I referred is made, the better, but there will be a need for a short-term fix in the case of people such as John if the changes are not in place in time. There would be a significant issue if Dunleer fire station were unable to operate because its staffing dropped under the minimum crew level of five members.

On the issue raised by Deputy Kenny, there is an investigation under way of Ideal Care Services and the unvetted staff issue. The model should be examined but we should be under no illusion that it would take a considerable length of time to develop both the physical capacity and the multidisciplinary capacity that would be required to deal with vulnerable children. On balance, I favour the idea of a stronger State involvement than merely privately outsourcing. It does not mean that all privately outsourced facilities are bad or poor, but certainly a very alarming situation has arisen and there are issues, so we need to examine the model.

I thought Deputy Ó Murchú was talking in terms of the Defence Forces. It will go from the early 50s to 60. I will do that by regulation by the end of the month. That will happen on 29 March in respect of the Defence Forces. It will go up to 60 from where it is now, and then to 62 when we have legislation passed. It is a big move for the Defence Forces, however. I do not have the specifics on the fire services, prison officers or gardaí as to timelines, but I will ensure we get that information to the Deputy.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1.15 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 1.56 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.15 p.m. and resumed at 1.56 p.m.
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