Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Ceist:5. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Justice if she has considered the establishment of a knife amnesty to help address the problem of knife crime. [17752/24]
Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions
Crime Prevention
The Minister made a move towards addressing knife crime last week. Has she considered introducing an amnesty in this regard?
There are many complex and interlinked reasons for the use of knives in the commission of offences. When some young people feel unsafe or under threat there can be a temptation to carry knives. Incidents involving knives tend to increase this trend and there are certainly no quick-fix solutions to tackling this type of behaviour, which is long-standing over many generations. Long-term, evidence-based strategies and local interventions by trusted youth workers are most effective as part of a wider strategic response to the types of crime in which knives are a feature, including antisocial behaviour, street violence, youth offending and domestic violence.
I established the expert forum on antisocial behaviour in 2020. This has examined a broad range of issues with a focus on developing measures which will counteract the negative impact of this behaviour on community morale and quality of life. The forum operates four subgroups to consider specific issues, including one on knife crime, and has made a number of recommendations based on the available evidence to inform criminal justice policy in this area. This work resulted in last week’s approval by the Government of my proposal to amend legislation to increase sentences for a number of knife-related crimes and to strengthen the use of antisocial behaviour orders.
As Minister of State, I remain open to innovative solutions to tackle all types of crime. I understand that the consistent expert advice from An Garda Síochána is that an amnesty, as suggested by the Deputy, is not likely to yield significant benefits. As he will be aware, in many tragic instances, the weapon is an ordinary household kitchen knife or a screwdriver and it could not be expected that this type of device would be handed in during any amnesty, which would greatly limit its effectiveness.
I assure the Deputy that An Garda Síochána continues with a range of proactive measures to tackle this issue, including its ongoing assault reduction strategy, which is targeted at tackling all types of assaults, including the use of knives. This strategy is informed by a pro-arrest, early investigation and proactive, high-visibility approach.
I am interested in what the Minister of State said. I am aware of an instance in the UK where a knife amnesty was initiated. A family member of someone who carries a knife or someone who is aware of a knife in a household avails of an opportunity to drop the knife into a box, be it in a community centre, a police station or somewhere else that is safe. This takes some knives out of circulation and also, in part, just adds to the general conversation about knife crime. There is the practical part, namely, the demonstrable effect of taking knives out of circulation, but it also adds to the conversation. To widen this discussion a little, is there evidence that increasing sentences does anything? I hope it does because I would like it if the stiffer sentences for knife crime being spoken about would, if introduced, actually bring down the number of knife crimes. Is there evidence to suggest that such a strategy works? I would be interested to hear from anybody who has said it does.
We have had a number of conversations about a knife amnesty. The evidence, from the UK in particular, shows that it can have a short-term and not extensive effect because knives are so readily replaceable. In terms of it being an awareness issue, we would have to be very careful about how to manage it, if it were to happen. We would need to ensure it did not engender fear in young people and actually encourage some of them to carry knives if they think it is a bigger issue than it actually is. That is why we tend to favour An Garda Síochána carrying out the harm reduction piece rather than having a more broad-based conversation around it, because the latter can actually engender higher levels of knife carrying, which in turn can lead to greater use of those knives.
Regarding increasing the sentences, I was struck by the fact that we have one of the highest sentences for simple possession, at five years. I think it is four years in the UK and two years in many other countries. We did not distinguish between those who may very stupidly carry a knife for self-defence purposes, which is a crime, and somebody who carries a knife with a clear intent to use it for an act of violence. That was the main reason for making the distinction.
I am not hung up on the idea of a knife amnesty. It was just something I wanted to tease out. We need a change in culture among young and not so young people to ensure the carrying of a knife is simply not acceptable in our society, is not needed and leads to harm. I am interested in listening to public awareness campaigns. I spoke to the Minister in a committee meeting earlier about a public awareness campaign around the migration pact. We cannot have a public awareness campaign about everything, but if young people using knives for self-protection or as part of some kind of fashion trend whereby a knife makes a person more manly, that presents a growing menace in Irish society. Is there something we need to do in terms of a wider campaign? This is not just about stiffer sentences, but having a wider conversation through the mediums available to the Department of Justice to try to change the culture.
Twelve months ago, almost to the day, following a parliamentary exchange between the Minister and me, it was revealed that 13,138 knives had been seized by an Garda Síochána between 2016 and 2022. This is a 78% increase over the seven years. On the one hand, it shows the extraordinary proactivity of An Garda Síochána in managing to seize those knives. On the other hand, it shows that there is a rise in the number of individuals carrying knives who come to the attention of An Garda Síochána. Ultimately these knives are confiscated and become part of the statistics. I completely accept Deputy Ó Ríordáin's point about young people feeling that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do so. I take the point about sentencing, but I think there is merit in the parliamentary question Deputy Ó Ríordáin has put forward regarding an amnesty. There is the potential for the amnesty itself to become the public awareness campaign and therefore end up in the classroom and in universities across the country. It becomes a conversation piece on its own.
The difficulty with it just being an awareness campaign is that it could terrify more young people and they may end up carrying knives, which is the last thing we want to happen. There has been an increase, albeit not very significant, in knife carrying in the country. There was an amnesty here in 2006, but it was only to hand in knives that were about to become illegal. The evidence from other countries is very mixed and seems to have a very short-term use. I can continue to have the conversation around an amnesty, but it needs to be very careful. We need to be careful that if it was to be done, it would not come to be considered the complete solution. I am not opposed to the idea, but the evidence regarding its usefulness seems to be fairly limited.
Legislative Measures
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Ceist:6. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Justice to restate her intention to pursue the passing of hate crime legislation this year. [17753/24]
In the public sphere, the Minister has restated her commitment to hate crime legislation. In light of rumblings from Government backbenches and from the Opposition and of people abandoning their previous commitments to supporting hate crime legislation, will she now take the opportunity to speak to her own commitment to pass hate crime legislation?
It is my intention to progress the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill to enactment to protect those who are most vulnerable and who, sadly as we have seen, are attacked simply because of who they are, where they came from or because of some other part of their identity that is, quite frankly, nobody else's business. I am determined to enact strong, effective and proportionate legislation to do this. Some people have raised concerns about certain provisions in the Bill and I have indicated that I am willing to look at addressing, as appropriate, those concerns. To this end, I am considering a number of amendments which I intend to bring forward on Committee Stage in the Seanad in due course.
As the Deputy is aware, this Bill will legislate against hate crimes for the first time in Irish law and bring us into line with our European counterparts. We are one of the last countries in the European Union without hate crime legislation. This legislation is necessary and the figures from An Garda Síochána showing a significant increase in hate crimes in recent years are proof of that. Having hate crime laws in place is widely supported by the public.
I assure the Deputy that what is proposed to address hate crime is balanced, both in terms of recognising the effect that hate crimes have on their victims and the criminal test used to prove such offences. The demonstration test, which we have discussed in this Chamber and which is provided for in this legislation, simply means that a person accused of a hate crime must have demonstrated hatred towards a member of a protected group or characteristic at the time he or she committed the alleged offence. It is this demonstration of hatred that causes the additional harm to victims in comparison with other crimes.
As the Deputy will be aware, the Bill completed all Stages in Dáil Éireann in April 2023, with 110 Deputies voting in favour and just 14 voting against. I am looking forward to engaging with colleagues again when the Bill comes back into this House and to progressing this important legislation.
I am reassured by that and I thank the Minister for her response. A Croatian man was beaten to death a couple of weeks ago because he did not speak English. We have had 23 arson attacks on accommodation centres over the last number of years. Members of the LGBTQ+ community and their families know what it is like to feel afraid that they will be assaulted for who they are.
We are behind every other European country when it comes to legislation in this regard. I am aghast at Government backbenchers who, in the wake of the referendums, have decided that this is some kind of culture war agenda. I am similarly aghast at members of the Opposition changing their position. I am encouraged by the Minister's words and while I hate to return to the issue of misinformation, in an election year this Bill is being used by people who are saying it is something that it is not. Can we speak to how serious the issues are and about the people we are hoping to protect? They are very vulnerable people, which is the point of the legislation the Minister is trying to get over the line, with the support of the Labour Party.
The Deputy is right. It is not just a case of people feeling unsafe; they are unsafe simply because of who they are. We have had quite sinister attacks. While I do not want to get into particular cases, very serious incidents have taken place. We do not have to look too far to find somebody who has been the victim of some form of hate crime, motivated simply because of the colour of their skin, where they have come from, or the potential partner they have and we need to say very clearly, as a society, that this is not okay. Gardaí have made it very clear to me that we need this legislation, that hate crimes are on the increase and that we need to respond effectively.
We all have a responsibility to call out the misinformation that is being spread, particularly about this legislation. This is not about criminalising opinions or preventing people from engaging in meaningful debate, be it political, academic or otherwise. It is about making sure that people who are at risk have protection. We need to say that very clearly and to provide gardaí with the resources they need to be able to respond to these types of incidents.
Again, I am encouraged by the Minister's words but I want to be sure that this legislation can be enacted before a general election. This is the type of legislation that can define a Minister and a Government; indeed, it can define the body politic. How much are we going to risk to enact legislation to protect those who are powerless? To my mind, this is an indication of how serious we are about law and order in Irish politics. This legislation is also a test of how serious the Minister is about pushing back against those who will use the race card in an election year to gain some cheap racist votes for themselves. I want to support the Minister, as does my party. We were disappointed with some of the narratives that came out post-referendum, with people running away from the importance of this legislation. Can the Minister give me some more encouragement by indicating when we might see this Bill enacted?
I had outlined that it was my intention to bring forward amendments after Easter but, obviously, we have had a lot of things going on. While there has been a slight delay, it is still my intention to bring forward amendments in the coming weeks. It is really important that we say what this legislation does, as well as what it does not do. This is about protecting those who are most vulnerable in our society and one could not get any more law-and-order than that, as far as I am concerned.
An Garda Síochána
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Ceist:7. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Justice what measures have been put in place to address the unprecedented number of members resigning from An Garda Síochána. [17751/24]
I have won the oral questions lottery this week. This question relates to the issue of Garda resignations, which I have raised a number of times. There were 147 resignations from An Garda Síochána last year, which was unprecedented. The Minister decided not to attend the Garda Representative Association, GRA, conference. That was an unsurprising move in the absence of an invitation to the Garda Commissioner. That being said, low morale and other issues within An Garda Síochána would have been raised with her there. I ask her to speak to the number of resignations from the force and what she is doing to address the matter.
I am absolutely committed to working with all members of An Garda Síochána at all ranks and levels to address the issues of concern to them. That will continue, irrespective of any meetings this week or otherwise. I have made that very clear to the representative organisations. I am committed to working with the Garda Commissioner as well to make sure gardaí have the resources they need to do their extremely important work of keeping people safe.
I will now set out the facts in relation to resignations. While we have seen an increase in the number of gardaí resigning, and I do not want to see that increase continuing, the figures are still low, objectively, in comparison with other police organisations. The rate of resignations is running at around 1%. There has been an increase of 0.3% since 2022. In saying that, I am not dismissing the fact that there has been an increase. In comparison with other policing organisations and given the fact that we are at full employment, it is, however, a relatively low number, albeit one we want to see decrease.
People choose to change careers for a wide variety of reasons. Younger people, in particular, are less likely to spend 30 or 40 years in the same job. We are probably all in that situation and every industry is seeing movement in a way that did not happen in times past. An Garda Síochána is no different in that regard. Gardaí nowadays are often highly educated before entering Templemore, with recruits holding undergraduate degrees or higher. They then graduate with a bachelor’s degree in applied policing on completion of their Garda training and often continue to add to these qualifications. They are highly trusted and highly employable individuals by reason of their experience and the skills and judgment they develop as members of An Garda Síochána. It is often the case that they leave to go to other parts of the public service, which is welcome for the institutions or agencies in question but we obviously want to do what we can to keep them in the force.
One of the most important issues is making sure we have as many members of An Garda Síochána as possible. One issue that gardaí raise with me as regards the pressure they are under is their feeling that there are not enough of them to do the work they have to do. That is why the main focus and priority need to be on making sure that overall Garda numbers are increasing. That in itself will help gardaí in the work they are doing and relieve some of the pressure they feel they are under at the moment.
What gardaí are telling me is that it is not the job it used to be and that it is harder to do the job. There are people doing it now who want to leave and clearly the statistics back up what I am saying. There are also people who, in previous generations, would have wanted to enter the profession but do not want to do so now. We can see that in the difficulties we have had with recruitment. I understand the Garda Commissioner suggested 18,000 gardaí are needed to effectively police the State because of the population increase, although I am open to correction on that.
I have suggested previously, including to the Minister of Education, that the Government should consider a Dublin allowance for certain public sector workers in the city and county who are particularly hurt by the cost-of-living issues that are a feature of Dublin. It would be modelled on the London allowance which has been in place for 100 years. Housing and the cost of accommodation are among the reasons we cannot get teachers and gardaí in Dublin. This Minister for Justice might consider that. The Minister for Education has said she is considering it.
It is important to note that policing is a career that people are choosing. Across the recruitment campaigns this year and last year, we had 11,500 people apply to join An Garda Síochána. At a time of full employment, that is a significant number of people who still want to join. Obviously, that does not negate the fact that people are leaving on the other side. As well as making sure that we have more members to alleviate some of the pressures and stress that people are under, I have been engaging with the Garda Commissioner and the representative organisations to see if there are other measures we could take to support people in staying on.
That is the engagement I am having currently with the Minister for public expenditure and reform. It has resulted in the increase in retirement age. We have increased the age of entry. There are separate measures that I hope we will be able to progress shortly to address some of the issues gardaí have raised. We are investing significant funding, with an increase of 25% in the last three years alone, again to try to make sure that while the job has changed, which I absolutely accept, it has changed in a good way. For example, last week I met members of the roads policing unit in Cork. They were able to show me the hand-held device they have which enables them to deal with a person on the roadside without ever having to go back to their car, let alone their station. The changes are not all bad. Some are actually positive and enable gardaí to do their job in a really effective way.
We did have a motion of no confidence in the Garda Commissioner, which I did not think was a good move by the GRA but it happened. We did have a threat of work to rule, effectively, for the month of October, which did not happen but overhung the whole month until it was resolved. The Garda Commissioner has not been invited to the GRA conference and the Minister has already decided not to attend. These issues of morale are real and the statistics I gave the Minister on resignations are real.
The Minister did not answer my question about the Dublin allowance. I am interested to hear what she has to say about that. Has her Department investigated what has happened in London since 1920 and how the changes have been effective in ensuring that essential public sector workers such as nurses, teachers and police officers have stayed within that employment in the UK context? If we could encourage something similar here, it would address some of the issues we have in terms of the cost of living and accommodation costs.
There is no doubt in my mind that while the numbers are low statistically, they have increased. I know the Minister accepts and understands that. We have an issue with morale. It is very clear that we have an issue in respect of many of our men and women in uniform across all branches of the Defence Forces, including An Garda Síochána. It is undoubtedly going to be an ongoing challenge. The recruitment of more personnel is part of the solution but we also have an issue when it comes to the communication between rank-and-file gardaí and the hierarchy within An Garda Síochána. That is leading to these issues. It is not only the economic issues that members are feeling because of the education they have, which, as the Minister rightly pointed out, is extremely high. They are in great demand, particularly when the economy is so buoyant. There has to be a recognition within An Garda Síochána, particularly within the Commissioner's office, as regards this communication methodology that he and others are perhaps using. There needs to be a conversation about that because we are seeing more individuals resigning than we should.
On a Dublin allowance, I do not think that could be applied to gardaí on their own. Deputy Ó Ríordáin reflected that it would have to apply across the board. It is something that we have looked at, which is not to say there are not challenges with it. How do we decide who gets it? If somebody is working in Dublin but living in the commuter area, do we put a parameter around that? What would the allowance be? If prices increase in other counties, how would that then apply? Should it apply only to gardaí, nurses and teachers? There is a challenge in that I could not decide who should get it beyond gardaí and also regarding what the parameters would be and how we would set them. There are a number of challenges. That is not to say that the matter has not been looked at but it is not straightforward. The allowance would have to apply across a number of different professions and there is a challenge in identifying them.
There are other ways in which we can try to address some of the challenges gardaí face. It is about financial measures, structures, engagement and making sure that where issues arise, they can be communicated. I cannot speak on behalf of management but as regards rank-and-file gardaí working with their seniors, the representative organisations and the Garda Commissioner, those lines of communication need to be kept open at all times, which I know they are. For my part, it is my number one objective to make sure gardaí at every single level have exactly what they need, not just to do their job but to feel safe and happy in the work they do.
Closed-Circuit Television Systems
Alan Farrell
Ceist:8. Deputy Alan Farrell asked the Minister for Justice for an update on engagement with local authorities with regard to community CCTV schemes; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [17839/24]
My question relates to the Minister's and the Department's engagement with local authorities regarding the CCTV scheme that was rolled out recently, following the passage of legislation which enabled local authorities to actually get these schemes up and running. They are a long-required benefit to communities up and down the country to make people safer in their own communities.
Community safety is a top priority for me and my Department. Everyone has the right to be safe and feel safe in their communities. Community CCTV can play a vital role in achieving this goal. I think we will have all heard not just from community groups but from local representatives and gardaí as well just how important CCTV is. As the Deputy is aware, since 2017 my Department has administered the grant-aid scheme supporting groups wishing to establish a community-based CCTV system in their area. The scheme was extended in 2019 to cover not only new systems, but to also provide funding for the extension or upgrade of existing systems which are incomplete or obsolete. Applicants may now seek a once-off grant of up to €5,000 for minor maintenance costs. Funding has been approved each year for these schemes and grants of over €950,000 for 35 community schemes have been approved and drawn down to date.
Recently, I announced a further €1 million in funding available for the development of community-based CCTV schemes. This continued funding underlines my commitment and my Department's commitment to working with local authorities to promote community safety. It is now open for local authorities to apply for funding through the established application channels.
I also moved to clarify the law in this area. This is the problem we have had, particularly as it relates to GDPR. The Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Act 2024, which also deals with body cameras, reforms the use of community-based CCTV. The Act was signed by the President in December and I hope to commence the legislation in stages over the course of this year. In the modern, fully digitalised society, criminals, especially organised crime gangs, have access to increasingly sophisticated digital tools to carry out their objectives. It is of crucial importance that An Garda Síochána has access to all of the technology that it needs to counter such challenges. A modern police service simply must have effective and up-to-date digital tools to keep our communities safe. It is not just about organised crime gangs; it is about crime happening more generally in an area, making sure that CCTV footage is available and ensuring we have the evidence for gardaí to be able to access. While members of An Garda Síochána should not have their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to fighting or detecting crime and putting criminals behind bars, it is important there are safeguards in place. The Act was drafted to take account of the Data Protection Commissioner's concerns regarding community CCTV.
I thank the Minister. I alluded to the fact that these schemes are just so important. They provide people with peace of mind that if there is an incident, it can be looked back at. If there is an event, for instance, like the concerts that take place in Malahide Castle every summer, it is important that there is the opportunity for An Garda Síochána to engage with the local authority to make sure that everything is running as it should be. I am glad the Minister mentioned the GDPR element because that has been, frankly, a disappointment in recent years. Local authorities have wanted to run schemes or have had schemes in place but have been unable to review or deal with An Garda Síochána from an evidentiary perspective. In most instances that I can think of in Fingal, the schemes are no longer in existence because they became obsolete. I am pleased to hear the Minister is planning on commencing the elements of the Act that enable this and I wonder if she could be more specific. Does she expect that it will be done by autumn? If that is the case, perhaps she would be willing to provide the House with further information as to which local authorities have applied for funding.
People are free to apply to the scheme now. This part of it is applicable to those who are applying. To outline how people can apply, the details are available on my Department's website at gov.ie. There are technical specifications, application forms and guidance notes. For any community group that has an interest in this, it is a matter of contacting local Garda management, their local divisional officer, or the relevant local authority for assistance. There is a requirement for approval through a joint policing committee at the moment. As the JPCs change to community safety partnerships, we anticipate that this will go through the partnerships and require authorisation from the Garda Commissioner. This is an important step. I would say to Deputies, councillors and those who are engaged with their local communities that if there is an area that does not have CCTV and which they feel would benefit from it, or an area with CCTV that needs upgrading, the fund is now there and the issues around GDPR have been addressed. There is no reason this cannot be progressed now where issues have arisen in the past. I encourage people to take this up because it is available to them now.
I thank the Minister. I do not have much to add other than it would be helpful for us to have another conversation about this in the autumn regarding the uptake, to make sure the scheme is operating as effectively and efficiently as possible, and perhaps then to determine whether an ongoing fund could be provided to it year on year as part of the annual Vote for the Department of Justice. It would underscore the commitment for us to make sure that we deliver stronger, safer communities in which people feel confident to be out, whether during the day or at night, at events or just casually walking around a community that happens to have a scheme. That would be beneficial to communities throughout the country.
It is absolutely the case that certain local authorities in the past, prior to any issues arising around GDPR, were more proactive in applying for the funding and putting up the CCTV. It may be the case now that a similar pattern will emerge but it is important for local communities to know that it is there. It is important for local councillors and representatives in this House to know that it is there and to engage to make sure that local authorities progress this and that they install the CCTV. I would be happy to engage further on this to see what the uptake is, whether people actually applied, who has been successful and how can we encourage more to apply for this fund. As I said, any member of An Garda Síochána I meet, and indeed community members, have always said that this is hugely beneficial when they have it. It is about encouraging them and highlighting the fact that this is now available to local authorities again.
Northern Ireland
Éamon Ó Cuív
Ceist:9. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Justice the progress made in discussions with the British government in relation to implementing the recommendation of the Independent Reporting Commission regarding appointing an independent person to explore what a process of engagement and group transition might look like; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [17766/24]
My question is on the progress made in discussions with the British Government in relation to implementing the recommendations of the Independent Reporting Commission regarding the appointment of an independent person to explore what a process of engagement and group transition might look like. As the Minister knows, progress on this is important.
I thank the Deputy for raising this. He has raised it previously. I do not want to outline what he knows already exists but for those who potentially do not, the commission was established under the Fresh Start agreement to report on measures aimed at ending paramilitarism. The commission has submitted six reports to the UK and Irish Governments to date, the most recent of which was last December. We have welcomed the reports. I have engaged with the commission while recognising the significant role it plays in highlighting the progress that has been made tackling residual paramilitarism in Northern Ireland but also highlighting what needs to be done. This is very much the next step in terms of trying to move even further in removing it completely from the communities in Northern Ireland. The Governments have discussed the analysis and the recommendations of the commission including through the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference. Both Governments agreed to the commission's recommendation for the appointment of the independent person to engage and to report on the possible establishment of a formal process of comprehensive group transition and that it has the potential to make a positive contribution. My view is still very much the same, that is, this is a welcome recommendation and we should try to progress it. We are doing that. We are continuing our joint work to consider this recommendation and in fact at the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference to be held next Monday, when I will travel with the Tánaiste, this issue will be discussed again by the Tánaiste and me with the British Government. I am keen that progress will be achieved. I assure the Deputy that we are committed to continuing this constructive engagement with the commission, with the British Government and the Northern Ireland Executive in respect of the work of the commission to tackle this issue. While I cannot report much more progress from when we met the last time, there is ongoing engagement between both jurisdictions. I hope that in Monday's meeting, we will be able to make more progress and that we will be able to give some sort of a definitive pathway or timeline to try to reach that point.
My concern is very simple. As they say in Irish, an rud a théann i bhfad, téann sé i bhfuaire. What goes on for a long time goes cold. We have an opportunity, if the opportunity is taken now. I appreciate that the delay is probably not on this side of the Irish Sea. The lack of an Executive was a challenge. I hope that when I ask this question the next time - if I get lucky on the oral answers again - that there will be significant progress. I would like to know whether there has been engagement with the Northern Ireland authorities about this idea since the Minister of Justice was appointed there, because it is radical, I accept that. From my knowledge of the situation, I believe there is a good chance it would bring, perhaps not ultimate success in every element, but certainly significant progress.
I am sorry that I cannot provide any greater clarity or report progress from when we discussed this before. I assure the Deputy that it is not off the agenda. It is very much being discussed. There has been a lot of back and forth between my Department, the Irish Government and the UK Government. Also there had been previous conversations with the Assembly in Northern Ireland. I have met my counterpart, the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland, Naomi Long, since she was reappointed to the Department of Justice and this will form part of the conversations that we are having moving forward. There are different views on this, as the Deputy knows, not just here and across the water but in Northern Ireland as well. It is important that as we progress this, we bring everybody with us if this is the direction we are going. It is making sure that to the Deputy's point, we have that constant engagement, that it does not go cold and that it does not get left on the side. That is not what is happening here. I hope that the Tánaiste and I will be in a position to give him a greater update following Monday's meeting.
I believe the Minister would agree with me that on the make up of the commission, there was an interest in the Government in an appointment, but there was also an appointment with the Executive from the British Government and so on, as well as a competent chair. They are all excellent people. Would the Minister agree they are the kind of people who come from different traditions but, having come to an agreed position, deserve to be taken very seriously by all sides? Would she also agree that this is like the person on the bicycle? If he or she gets slower and slower and eventually stops, he or she will come off the bicycle. In this case, matters may regress rather than go forward if the opportunity is not taken. I understand that the Minister cannot give much more of an answer because conversations are confidential but I look forward to her coming back to the Dáil or back to me personally with some good news in the near future. I really implore her in this regard because this is a historical opportunity to move forward.
I hope that we can come back with positive progress. On the Deputy's initial point, I cannot speak highly enough of the members of the commission and the work they do. I commend their commitment to removing violence from the communities in Northern Ireland but also their commitment to developing, enhancing and supporting communities that have been impacted for many years and working with all sides to get to that point. They are committed and dedicated and as the Deputy says, they come with no agenda other than to progress peace and stability in Northern Ireland. I thank them sincerely for that work. I assure the Deputy that their recommendations, not just this one but any recommendations they have made, are seriously considered and taken, based on the work that they have done. They are treated with the upmost respect and seriousness. That will continue. Hopefully we would be in a position to make some progress on this in a more public way in the near future.
Family Law Cases
Aindrias Moynihan
Ceist:10. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Justice if she will consider providing dedicated family courts within the existing court structures to ensure families are placed at the centre of the family justice system; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [17787/24]
My question relates to the possibility of additional or dedicated family court sessions that would be afforded in order that people hearing or involved in those sensitive cases would have the maximum opportunity for the maximum privacy. Often the matters discussed are very delicate. I ask that the best service available would be afforded to them.
As the Deputy is aware, my Department is leading a programme of family justice reform set out in the first family justice strategy, published in November 2022. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, and I have set out an ambitious vision for a family justice system of the future, a system that will focus on the needs and rights of children and which will assist their parents in making decisions that affect all of the family. The plan outlines the steps needed to create a more efficient and user-friendly family court system that puts the family and children at the centre of its work. This will be achieved through the implementation of more than 50 actions across nine goals, with timelines for delivery up to the end of 2025. A key component of the strategy is the enactment of the Family Courts Bill 2022, which provides for the establishment of a family High Court, a family Circuit Court and a family District Court within the existing court structures, each of which will deal with family law matters as appropriate to its jurisdiction. The family district courts will have dedicated, specialist judges to deal with family cases who will not have to deal with other civil or criminal cases.
Their work will be supported by a range of services to assist families who need to come to court. There will be extensive preparatory work in advance of the legislation coming into force to make sure the new family courts will work effectively. To ensure individual cases will be dealt with at the appropriate court level, the family district court will be able to send forward proceedings to the family circuit court where there are special circumstances in the proceedings that would make it more appropriate for the proceedings to be dealt with by that court.
Officials in the Department will meet representatives of the Bar Council and the Family Law Association this week to engage on this issue. They will also meet representatives of the Law Society in the coming weeks to discuss any concerns about the Family Courts Bill. The Bill is progressing through the Houses of the Oireachtas and it is my aim it will be enacted as soon as possible.
I thank the Minister of State for outlining the situation. Having dealt with many people who have been involved in various cases, as he will have done as well, I know that many sensitive matters will be discussed at those courts. The courts already recognise that in the way they schedule cases for different times, yet situations nonetheless arise on the day whereby one party will be on one side of the building and the other party will be on the other side, but they will still end up mixing with many other court users of the day. To make sure they will get that maximum level of privacy, whether the cases are heard on different days or in different buildings, that should expedited or made available. There are many issues at District Court level relating to domestic violence, maintenance or access and the buildings are not always ideal for providing that space, even with waiting rooms. It is important, therefore, to expedite this and to make such a facility available to maximise privacy for people.
I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter relating to dedicated family law courts. He is certainly correct in that family law deals with very sensitive issues, often involving children or strenuous circumstances of extreme stress, and people deserve privacy, which in turn provides people with dignity in dealing with their very sensitive matters of family breakdown. That is why we are progressing distinct family law courts, as the Deputy has recommended, and I understand where he is coming from on this issue. When I practised family law in the old Wexford courthouse, there were the consultation rooms and in between them there was a queue for the motor tax office. That is how bad and insensitive it was, although we now have a lovely courthouse in Wexford.
I certainly hear and understand the Deputy's concerns and can assure him distinct family law courts are a priority for the Minister and me.
I thank the Minister of State. I might briefly move to the issue of the Circuit Court, where, for example, divorce proceedings are heard and where there tends to be some time spent waiting for those hearings to be held. Some of that might be down to adjournments but, despite that, people still often have to wait a considerable number of years for the case to go through. Having a dedicated court would allow for those lists to be processed faster and would give people an opportunity to complete their business and move on with their lives sooner. If there is any indication of a timeline for when that might be able to be progressed, the Minister of State might outline it. I understand it is a priority for him and that great energy will be put into bringing it about.
This matter is one of many reforms being carried out by the Government, not least in the context of family law at the Circuit Court. There will be a family circuit court to deal with those special circumstances in proceedings that might make them more appropriate to be dealt with separately, and we will certainly aim to ensure that, in those circumstances where there might be a reduced family law workload for the Circuit Court with the district family law courts coming into being, there will be a ready accessibility to those family circuit courts wherever they may be sitting.
An Garda Síochána
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Ceist:11. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Justice the number of community gardaí in the Dublin region compared with in 2019. [17754/24]
How many community gardaí are there in the Dublin region compared with in 2019, pre-pandemic?
I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. Community policing is at the heart of An Garda Síochána and all gardaí have a role to play in community policing in the course of carrying out their duties. Community policing is also fundamental to the new Garda operating model that is being rolled out throughout the country and has been fully commenced in 13 Garda divisions. The new model will provide more front-line gardaí and increased Garda visibility and will deliver a wider range of policing services for people in their local area. It will divide service delivery within divisions into four functional areas, one of the most important being community engagement. This will allow for a greater, more consistent focus on community policing in all divisions.
The Garda authorities have advised me that a member of An Garda Síochána can be deemed to be a community garda where that person has been allocated to a community policing team, CPT, and is responsible and accountable for applying a problem–solving approach to appropriate crime and policing quality-of-life issues in a specified geographic area through partnership and engagement. Examples of this engagement are working with neighbourhood watch, community alert or local business forums.
Community policing teams strategically manage and lead the development, delivery and evaluation of the Garda community policing framework. Like most Garda members, those assigned to CPTs have dual functions. In addition to their strategic roles in their community policing teams, part of which requires them to regularly update their community engagement superintendent on the policing needs of their community, they are also front-line members. Moreover, CPTs draw on all front-line gardaí to carry out community policing.
I very much welcome the new interactive map launched recently on the Garda website, which is designed to allow the public to identify the local CPT in their area. This map will continue to develop in line with the continued roll-out of the new Garda operating model.
Budget 2024 provides over €2.35 billion to An Garda Síochána. As of 31 March 2024, 384 community gardaí had been assigned in the DMR region. This represents an increase of more than 35% since the end of December 2023, when 284 community gardaí had been assigned. The figure of 384 is out of an overall figure of 707 community gardaí in the country.
I thank the Minister of State. He will get a chance to come back in.
I do not have the 2019 figure.
Okay. We were one minute and 50 seconds into the answer and I was just waiting for the statistics. The Minister of State does not have the 2019 figure, which is a disappointment because I am trying to assess where we are now versus where we were pre-pandemic. In any event, the Policing Authority published an assessment of policing performance today and indicated cuts to community policing are a matter of genuine concern. It stated:
While there is a strong trust and confidence in the Garda Síochána within local communities, negative perceptions persist, particularly among young people and minority communities. Enhancing community policing and addressing visibility challenges are crucial for fostering positive community experiences.
I asked the Minister of State a straight question, to compare where we are now with where we were in 2019, and it is a disappointment he cannot give me an answer. I do not think it is fair to equate where we were during the pandemic, and I am trying to get a sense of what the numbers are. I hope he can help me out with that.
I apologise to the Deputy and I will certainly undertake to get those figures for him because it was a straight question and the figure has not been provided. I agree community gardaí are essential. In terms of understanding local communities, while all gardaí are community gardaí, having dedicated community gardaí is essential to building up those relationships and a sense of trust in working with the local communities and also to being a point of contact when issues arise. Furthermore, it helps us understand what the real levels of crime might be in an area rather than simply the level of reported crime. They have a good understanding of where hotspots are and where issues are arising and can work with the local community. I certainly agree with the Deputy on the importance of those local community gardaí when they are assigned to particular areas and in working with other Garda members. Moreover, when other aspects of the Garda Síochána might be coming into an area, such as the emergency response unit or regular policing units, they can talk to the community gardaí, work with them in the context of what they are getting into and avoid upsetting the local community.
Go raibh maith agat.
There is no more important garda than the community garda in breaking down antisocial behaviour, fostering relationships, breaking down intergenerational distrust and breaking down the distrust that young people and migrant communities tend to have of An Garda Síochána. The Policing Authority spoke today about cuts in community policing. The Minister of State cannot provide me with the figures now. He will get them for me, which is fine, but if a Deputy submits a blunt oral question comparing today with 2019, the answer should be to hand. That said, the Policing Authority believes that a strategic workplace plan is important for the Garda to address issues around community policing. Has the Minister of State read the report? Does he agree with what the authority had to say? Does he believe that the numbers involved in community policing need to be increased? We cannot address antisocial behaviour, anti-migrant sentiment, hate crime, knife crime or any of the other issues constantly raised on the law and order agenda or break down misconceptions about law enforcement and what the State does unless we foster the unique and special relationship between the individual garda and young people, school communities and wider communities.
I fully agree with the Deputy. I spoke with communities in Dublin recently about ensuring consistency in who their community gardaí are, as there can be a high turnover due to gardaí moving on. We do not see the same level of turnover among juvenile liaison officers, who view their role as a longer term position. This issue can be examined to ensure consistency.
The Deputy is 100% right that the community garda is the most important garda. Community gardaí are the linchpins and connecting points between what the rest of the force is doing and the community. It is about building trust. I support this model and will continue to push the matter with the Garda Commissioner. Obviously, this is an operational issue for him, but it is critical, given the trust engendered in communities by working with various groups.