Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 8 May 2024

Vol. 1053 No. 5

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

We are now four weeks out from the most important local and European Union elections for a generation and housing is the number one talking point at the doors. It is the biggest issue by far for workers and families across the State. After 13 years of Fine Gael in government, the housing crisis has gone from bad to worse. Rip-off rents continue to rise, homelessness has hit record levels and an entire generation is locked out of home ownership due to the sky-high house prices. On the watch of Fine Gael Governments, housing affordability has been torn to shreds. A new report published by MyHome.ie shows that nearly half of people are postponing buying a new home due to the cost of living. The Government's failure to deliver the affordable homes needed to rent and buy is at the heart of the problem. It has missed its affordable housing targets in each of the years since its so-called housing plan started. In the past two years, not one affordable home to rent or buy was delivered by the Government in Dublin city. It is the same story for Galway, Kerry, Wexford, Donegal, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Sligo and Tipperary, and I could go on.

The Government is very big on promises but very short on delivery. To make matters worse, the homes delivered through what the Government considers affordable housing schemes have price tags far beyond what ordinary workers can afford. I will give the Taoiseach an example. A house in a scheme in Clonburris in Clondalkin, Dublin is €425,000. That is close to half a million euro. It seems that is what the Government considers to be affordable. I think it is off the wall. It is little wonder the Taoiseach refuses to say what he regards as an affordable home. If we are to go by these schemes, his answer is "Sky high". It is no better when it comes to the Government's scheme for affordable homes to rent. I will give the example of Citywest, where rents are close to €1,800 a month. I do not know in what world that is deemed affordable rent. This is, nonetheless, what renters are getting on a Government scheme. They are ripped off by landlords and ripped off by the Government. The whole thing beggars belief.

The repeated failures of the Taoiseach's Government and its broken promises on affordable housing have real consequences for real families. Young people are stuck at home with their parents, unable to strike out on their own. Today, just over one quarter of 25- to 34-year-old people own their own homes. This is down from 60% in 2004. Some 40% of people under the age of 34 still live in their family home. That statistic alone should be enough for this Government to pack its bags. Fine Gael claims to be the party of home ownership but the truth is that it has never been harder for people to buy their own home. That is a direct result of Government policy. Is í an tithíocht an cheist is mó sna toghcháin áitiúla agus Eorpacha. Tá glúin gan fáil acu ar thithe ar phraghas réasúnta mar gur theip ar an Rialtas iad a chur ar fáil. Tá sé in am don athrú.

In his speech to his party's Ard-Fheis, the Taoiseach said he would fix housing once and for all. All three taoisigh who have led this coalition Government have made the same promise, and each time things got worse. My question is simple. Why is the Government repeatedly breaking its promises and failing on affordable housing?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy McDonald for raising what I agree is a really important issue regarding housing. From going across the country and engaging with young people and their parents, I know that home ownership can still feel out of the reach of many people. We are working day and night to change that. We are working every single day to make progress. I am very happy to report progress, because we are now building homes at levels not seen since 2008. Every single week in this country, 500 individuals or couples are buying their first home. As Deputy McDonald travels around the country, as I see she does, she must see those homes and meet those young people who have their first homes - homes that did not exist months or years ago that are now in place, with family lives starting in them.

Work on over 12,000 homes has started in the first quarter of this year alone. That figure is up 60% on the previous year. Over 12,000 homes were started in the first couple of months of 2024. We know many people who are renting want to buy as well so we are trying to put supports in place to help them with the cost of their rent. This is why we put a renter's tax credit in place. It made a difference, which is why we have kept it and increased it. It is why the three parties in government want to do even more to try to put a bit of money back into the pockets of renters so it can help them meet the rent and save for a deposit.

We have also put in place a number of schemes that I hope the Deputy will tell people she is against - the help-to-buy scheme, the first home scheme and the vacant property refurbishment grant. These are all practical ways to help people. In fairness to the Deputy, she has very honestly committed to getting rid of every one of these schemes so I wonder what she would say to the tens of thousands of people - more, in fact - who have benefited from those schemes. I wonder what she would say to their parents, who watch their child leave the box room and buy a home because of the help of those schemes, and why she says that if she is Taoiseach next year, none of those schemes would be in place. We are already doing affordable homes. There are affordable homes are being offered throughout the country, for as low as €225,000 in Waterford, €255,000 in Kilkenny and €300,000 in Dublin when we apply the affordable purchase discount. Later this week, the Minister for housing will make a further announcement in Dublin Fingal with regard to more affordable homes.

Last year saw over 4,000 affordable homes delivered, up from 1,750 in the previous year. We are on track for around 6,000 this year. I know the Deputy believes that for her to succeed politically, she needs the country's housing policy to fail but, unfortunately, that is not the case. Every single metric, in terms of supply, schemes, targets and capacity, is making progress but we know we have much more to do.

The Deputy asked me why I would not give one specific figure as to what an affordable home was. I gave a very honest answer in that regard, which is that it depends on the type of home, the person's circumstances and what part of the country it is in. I would ask the Deputy, 139 days after she told the people of this country that she would provide homes for €300,000 in Dublin, how she intends to do that, because the Sinn Féin Private Members' motion that will be debated in this House is not that. The motion talks about leasehold affordable schemes, where people will not actually ever own their own home. Again, maybe that gives an insight into the ideology of Sinn Féin when it comes to housing policy. Also, the motion does not talk about Dublin. It says it depends on where in the country the house will be. Will the Deputy admit, 139 days later, that she made a mistake, that she misspoke and then doubled down with regard to promising young people something she has no intention of delivering? When will Sinn Féin publish its all-encompassing housing plan to rival Housing for All?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I mentioned a number of counties - Louth, Mayo, Sligo and Tipperary - and could have added Cavan, Leitrim, Offaly and Roscommon. These are the official figures. This is an official record of the Government's abysmal failure - the failure of the State to deliver affordable homes to purchase and rent. By the targets the Government set itself, it has failed. It is a big fail. I have never seen housing need so desperate and I happen to represent communities for whom a housing crisis is not a new crisis. Overcrowding and very poor living conditions have been experienced generation after generation but I have never seen anything as desperate as this.

What makes matters worse it seems is that we have a Government that is utterly delusional - either that or just deeply dishonest - because it is not delivering at pace and at scale the affordable homes young people in particular and families more generally need to buy.

I again ask the Taoiseach, what changes now? He said he is sorting this out. What change does he make now to begin the process of sorting it out?

The Taoiseach

It seems we will have to wait for day 140 to find out how the leader of Sinn Féin intends to deliver on her commitment given in The Irish Times that she would provide people in this capital city and county with homes for €300,000.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

And less.

The Taoiseach

The Sinn Féin motion to be debated tonight does not do it. As for promising people leasehold, people do not want leasehold. People want to be able to go out and buy their own homes. That is what the people the Deputy, too, must be meeting across the country tell me as well. The people in the box rooms-----

Deputy Sorca Clarke

What is the Taoiseach delivering? There is no use in him talking down the clock.

The Taoiseach

I will tell the Deputy what we are delivering now. The Deputy has a leader and she did well there, so allow me to respond. We have already delivered 4,000 affordable homes. We have 21 local authorities so far-----

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

The Government has not. I have the figures with me.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Not true.

The Taoiseach

-----and we are on track for more than 6,000 this year. I have shown the Deputies and, more important, the people at home, who do not want to see Sinn Féin playing politics with a crisis, how we are continuing to make progress. The Deputy asked how we are going to fix it. I will tell her how we will do it. We are going to deliver record supply this year. Already this year we have seen more than 12,000 homes commenced. Most people in this country welcome that, but it seems to upset the Deputy, and she has probably objected to a fair few. This year, 12,000 homes have already been commenced. That is a good thing. It is a 60% increase on the previous year. Surely the Deputies would welcome that. This, coupled with schemes Sinn Féin opposes that help people buy their own home, keeping them in place, increasing our houses targets as we go through the year, delivering more supply and increasing affordable home delivery, is how we make a real difference, not just coming in here identifying the problem and offering no real solutions beyond rhetoric.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I welcome the long-awaited publication yesterday of the three external reports examining governance, human resources and finances at RTÉ. As we review the content of those reports, however, people around the country are amazed and alarmed that our national broadcaster, the organisation to which they pay the TV licence fee every year, continues to be mired in controversy. In more than 400 pages, the reports cover barter accounts, broken relationships, feckless governance and a culture which saw perks for some and dodgy contracts for the rest. There is some startling content in there. RTÉ claimed to have lost records of the now-infamous barter account, described as "hiding in plain sight". Elsewhere, accounting transactions were described as fictitious.

It is welcome that both the Government and RTÉ have accepted all 116 recommendations in principle, particularly those relating to the scandalous treatment of staff at RTÉ. I am talking in particular about the practice of bogus self-employment contracts, which we know deprive hard-working staff of so much, including access to mortgage approval, maternity pay and pension entitlements. I have heard from people who cannot retire or take sick leave or holidays, all because RTÉ will not recognise that they are employees. Some of these people have worked in the organisation for decades. My colleague, Senator Sherlock, has spoken before about the "Upstairs, Downstairs" culture pertaining at RTÉ, where workers on bogus self-employment contracts were paying for the flaithiúlach spending of those at the top.

However, we must do more than cut, cut, cut. Curbing the excess without delivering on decency and decent standards will do as much harm as good. Already, we know that the Department of Social Protection’s scope investigation does not cover all workers who are being exploited at RTÉ. It is scandalous that any employee of a State agency should be miscategorised in this way, yet we know it was widespread at RTÉ. That is not good enough because good journalism matters. A lesser-mentioned story in the press today is that of a study carried out by Dr. Eileen Culloty, who warns that parts of Ireland risk becoming news deserts, or areas which lack a reliable news service. Throughout the country, everyone should have access to accurate and up-to-date news and information. At this time of so much fake news, it is all the more important that we are able to trust those who report the news. That is especially important of our national broadcaster, RTÉ, yet the reputation of so many hard-working journalists has been hurt by reckless governance at RTÉ.

In his limited time left in government, the Taoiseach, along with the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, and the Cabinet, have important decisions to make. We understand that RTÉ has been given six weeks to outline how the recommendations will be implemented. It also falls to the Government to make a decision and present a plan as to how to resource our national broadcaster sustainably. We know the Government has been able to commission the reports, the publication of which I have welcomed, but it is time to make decisions. When will we have an announcement on the sustainable funding model for RTÉ? As part of that announcement, will there be a dedicated fund to end the practice of bogus self-employment contracts for all at RTÉ?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Bacik for raising this matter. I was very pleased that the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, yesterday brought to Government the three reviews into RTÉ that the Deputy referenced.

These are the reviews prepared by the independent expert advisory committees, the review of governance and culture, and the review of contractor fees, HR and other matters in RTÉ. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, also brought the Mazars final report on the RTÉ barter account.

I do genuinely believe these reports path a way forward. They show us a way forward and show an opportunity to get to where Deputy Bacik aspires to be, and to where all parties and the people of the country aspire, with a better supported, better resourced, better run and better functioning RTÉ and a real value on public service broadcasting. I hope yesterday marked an opportunity to begin to turn the page in terms of not just looking back on what was a very dire situation around governance and other matters but beginning to look forward in terms of implementing the recommendations. We have been saying for a while that these two independent reports were the first reports that produced recommendations. Every other report, while valuable or useful, told us what went wrong. We now have 116 recommendations in the reports, 101 of which are for RTÉ and 15 of which are for the Government. At its meeting yesterday the Government accepted the 15 that are for us. As does Deputy Bacik, I welcome that RTÉ has accepted the recommendations. It now needs to come back to the Government within six weeks with a very robust response and implementation plan. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, appraised the Government yesterday of how she and her Department intend to oversee and monitor the implementation of the plan.

In relation to the issue around bogus self-employment, there were two important recommendations in the scope. One was to intensify the engagement between the Department of Social Protection and RTÉ and the other was for the Department and RTÉ to positively consider a mediation process to try to help fast-track the process. This is for the very reason Deputy Bacik has highlighted, in terms of the real impact this has had on workers, often lower-paid workers in RTÉ, at a time of largesse for some. There is a sense of lower-paid workers or, quite frankly, normal workers going about their business missing out and being mistreated.

With regard to the issue of funding, this is the Government that will settle the question in terms of how to sustainability fund RTÉ and public service broadcasting. We reaffirmed this at Cabinet yesterday. The leaders of the three coalition parties, of which I am one, are committed to it. It is our intention to make a decision on funding by the summer break. It is important we do this. There are probably two options on the table. Different parties in the House have their views and I welcome this. It is good to have these debates. Ultimately there is a rubber-hits-the-road moment in terms of RTÉ responding with the full implementation plan and this being an enabler for the Government being able to make a decision once and for all on sustainable funding. I acknowledge the Trojan work done by the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, in very difficult circumstances over a sustained period of time that has helped bring us to this point today. She will be the Minister and this will be the Government who will resolve the funding issue.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I thank the Taoiseach for the response and for reaffirming his commitment to settle this issue in the lifetime of this Government and for providing me with the timeframe for making the decision for the sustainable future funding model by the summer recess. This is very welcome. I am mindful of the concerns expressed by Seamus Dooley of the National Union of Journalists when he responded to the publication of the reports by pointing out the real risks of delay, particularly if there is a legislative change in the funding structure. He also points out that the shadow of bogus self-employment has long lingered over RTÉ and, indeed, that it is not confined to RTÉ.

While I very much welcome the Taoiseach's provision of a timeframe for the decision on the sustainable funding model, and while I also welcome his reference to those key recommendations on ending the practice of bogus self-employment, I also ask about other organisations. Are there other State-run organisations throughout the country where this practice is an issue? Is there a plan in the Government to tackle this? As I say, I very much welcome the proposal that the Government will be making the decision on future funding models by the summer recess but the Taoiseach might explain precisely how it is to be done given the limited time left to us and given the fact we will also see local and European elections within this time period.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Bacik. We will obviously have to work with parties in this House on any legislative proposals we bring forward. My commitment is that the Cabinet makes the policy decision on future funding by the summer recess. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, has been very clear that when we look through the 15 recommendations that pertain to the Government there will be a clear need for legislative change. Wherever, and somewhat regardless of where, we land on a funding model, there will need to be in addition to it a piece of legislation brought forward. My understanding is that our initial thinking is one piece of legislation to address a range of changes that are likely to be needed to the Broadcasting Act, the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General being one change I am eager to see the Government progress.

There will be a decision by the summer recess and whatever legislation will flow from that. There will be the publication of a general scheme and the opportunity for scrutiny. There is a willingness on the part of the Government to work with the Opposition in terms of how we best advance that legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Next is Deputy McNamara. Níl sé anseo. We will proceed to Deputy Danny Healy-Rae on behalf of the Rural Independent Group.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

It is very clear to many that the Government has lost control of the migration issue. At the same time, many of our own young men and women, boys and girls, are leaving this country to go to Australia, Dubai, Canada and other places because they cannot afford to build houses or to buy them. In Kerry, they cannot even get planning permission to build houses. Many of our young farmers are deciding not to take over viable, productive farms that a lot of money, sweat and blood has been put into to ensure the continuation. These youngsters are deciding they are not prepared to take on the constant vilification, demonisation and regulation being doled out by the Government of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and being demanded and driven by the Green Party and others.

Our tourism industry in Killarney and Kerry in general is suffering because of the influx of migrants who are placed in so many of our hotels and guest houses. Some 36% of bed night availability is taken up by asylum seekers and refugees. Already, many small restaurants, cafés, pubs and souvenir shops have closed. I have been canvassing since 1973. I have never met so many people concerned about and raising the migration issue with me on the doorsteps. They feel the Government has lost complete control of the issue. Nobody objects to asylum seekers or refugees if they have a genuine case of distress. Who can explain how they salvaged their cats and dogs if the bombs were dropping around them or why our taxpayers are paying so much to quarantine these animals? Who can explain how they got time to bring their flashy SUVs and high-powered cars registered in Ukraine with them? How did they get time to do that? They are going home for holidays and for Christmas. However, we were told their homes were bombed and blown out of existence. Nobody objects to other people from anywhere in the world coming here to work, provided they have the proper visas and whatever they need to do that. What people here are objecting to is people being placed in hotels, being paid full social welfare and all the benefits and having a good time inside those hotels. How can the Taoiseach explain that? That is what is happening. At the same time, the Government is hurting our tourism industry in Killarney and across Kerry.

The Taoiseach

I am not sure where to start there. On housing supply in Kerry, the Deputy was with the Minister for housing at the opening of a new housing estate in Castleisland very recently. That is one of many examples of real progress being made in respect of housing. I thank the Deputy for turning up to report that progress for his constituents in Kerry; it is important he does that.

On the importance of the hospitality sector and the question of immigrants, I have been to Kerry many times. It is a beautiful county. I have been in many of the hospitality facilities there. As a result, I know how reliant we are on migrants to staff the tourism and hospitality sectors in County Kerry. I am sure in his next comment the Deputy will acknowledge the very positive contribution of the many migrants who work in hotels, cafés, bars and souvenir shops and all the other wonderful facilities he mentioned in the Kingdom. It would be important for him to do that. I am sure he will also want to acknowledge on the record of this House that there are a number of hotels in Kerry, including the Dingle Harbour Lodge and the Hotel Killarney, that had been used to accommodate Ukrainian people but that are no longer being used to do so. I am sure the Deputy will welcome that fact as well.

What we are seeing here is a conscious effort to work with communities, recognising the importance of the tourism sector and the hospitality sector, to provide facilitates to be returned to their original use as the situation allows.

I know we face a very difficult challenge when it comes to migration. We are not alone in that. As Taoiseach, I intend to take charge of this situation and support Ministers right across the Government, particularly as this is a whole-of-government issue. It is not the responsibility of any one Department; we are reliant on all Departments looking to see what they can do to support the humanitarian situation and support people who are in need. We want to provide that support in the compassionate way that this country always wants to provide it. We also wish to make sure that there is a rules-based system, that there is common sense and that our systems are efficient and effective. Irish people are two things - they are compassionate and they are full of common sense. They want to see a migration policy that does both of those things.

In the four weeks since I became Taoiseach, we have taken action in respect of Mount Street and we will act in respect of Grand Canal Dock. I want people to know that we have listened to the concerns that Irish people - good, decent people, across this country - are raising and the questions they are asking. Ministers and I will respond. We need a much broader response to migration than just having a conversation about accommodation. If we solely have a conversation about accommodation, then, no matter how much accommodation we provide, it will be filled. We must have a conversation about migration policy in the round. I look forward to a number of proposals coming forward from Ministers and the Government in relation to this in the coming days.

We will continue to work with communities in the Deputy's county and across Ireland. We will continue to try to reduce the reliance on the private sector because we do not want to be in the business of having to rely on facilities that are badly needed in towns and villages. We want to move away from that approach. In other words, move away from the emergency model and towards a sustainable model. These are very much the proposals that the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, got approval for in terms of his new accommodation framework at Cabinet only a few weeks ago.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I thank the Taoiseach. Two things are very clear to me. The first is that he is after giving me a lot of waffle. The second is that he is not in touch with reality and what is happening in County Kerry and Killarney. Some 36% of our bed nights are still being taken up by refugees and asylum seekers. That is a fact. Many more of our restaurants, cafes and so forth have closed. There is a problem in that regard. We must be honest with the people paying our taxes. They are paying 44% tax and 52% tax and 4.5% USC charges on top of that. This is what is happening. The Government is hurting the people. It has lost control. We have the Minister for Justice, who is sitting beside the Taoiseach, saying that she will send migrants back to the UK. Who does the Government have to round them up? The Garda National Immigration Bureau is not properly resourced. It cannot follow up on these people. The Government must take action because it clearly has lost control in places like Killarney and County Kerry. We see what is happening here in Dublin on our televisions. We can see enough of that.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. The time is up.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Government has lost control completely.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Those in government will have to come down to County Kerry to see it. I am very sure that the Government's candidates for the local elections are getting it in the neck in County Kerry because-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

-----I am being told about it and people know who is responsible for it. The Government is letting them down.

The Taoiseach

I will indeed visit County Kerry. I regularly visit the county and I look forward to doing so again.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Taoiseach will be very welcome.

The Taoiseach

Thank you so much. However, we have to acknowledge that policy changes have taken place in this country in relation to Ukraine. We have seen the numbers of Ukrainians coming here decrease dramatically. We can see this and the figures-----

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

What did the Government do with their cats and dogs? I ask the Taoiseach to answer this.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let the Taoiseach answer, please.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy mentioned cats, dogs and jeeps. Can we just rise to a higher level here, if the Deputy does not mind? We are dealing with a very serious situation. What people in this country want to know is that we are getting to grips with it and that we are using the various policy levers at our disposal to try to make progress. What I say to them is that when we look at the Ukrainian situation, it can be seen in the Deputy's county, for example, that two hotels that were being used to house Ukrainians are back available for tourism, hospitality and everything the Deputy talked about. This is progress.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

It is not nearly enough.

The Taoiseach

We continue to look at a range of measures. The Deputy mentioned the Minister for Justice. I ask the Deputy to look at the actual decisions the Minister has taken around faster processing times. It is not a question of rounding people up; it is a matter providing them with clarity when they come to a country. They either have a right to be here or they do not. If they have a right to be here, we welcome and integrate them.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

With proper visas.

The Taoiseach

If they do not have a right to be here, we make sure they leave. This is the policy of the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy McNamara.

Deputy Michael McNamara

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I wish to bring to the attention of the Taoiseach a worrying trend that has come to my attention and give one example of it.

It concerns a young man from the Indian subcontinent who travelled to the United Kingdom on a valid student visa issued by the UK Government. That visa allows him to work for ten hours a week only. He obviously hoped to work much more. He went to an agency in the UK which told him it could get him full employment permission in Ireland and arrange travel and a work permit. The agent took £1,500 sterling from him and retained his passport in order that he would pay an additional £1,000 when he started to work. It arranged his travel to Liverpool and from there a ferry to Belfast. He travelled from there to Dublin. He was given the Eircode and postal address of his employer. He turned up there to find it was the International Protection Office, IPO, in Dublin.

He obviously did not know that he was being sent to the IPO. He was one of five travelling in a similar way organised by the same agents on the same day. He knows of 30 more people sent to Ireland by that agency in the same way. He is now in Ireland. He is trying to get out of the asylum system and return to the United Kingdom. He does not have his passport.

It is clear that vulnerable people in a precarious position are being horribly exploited by bad actors. However, it is equally clear that our State is being exploited by those bad actors. While the Punch and Judy show the Government is engaging in with the UK authorities is all well and good, I want to know what the Taoiseach can do and what hope there is of international co-operation to resolve this. If I know anything of the underworld in which these agents, these people traffickers - let us call them what they are - operate, it is that it if there is one agency doing it in London, there are many doing it in London.

The Taoiseach often talks of a rules-based system. Last week the judgment of 22 March came to light. It came to light that none of the rules around the sex offenders' register was applied. The Department of Justice was informed by UK authorities of a sex offender and effectively did nothing until the matter was about to come to trial. We accept there are rules but the rules are simply not being applied. The Department of Justice is the lead agency for the security of this State and for public safety but it seems unable to apply its own rules. We can talk about a rules-based system all we want. If those rules are not being applied, they are essentially irrelevant. The public at large, not just in this State but unfortunately bad actors in other states, are cottoning on to that. We have a problem.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy McNamara for raising two important matters and giving me an opportunity to respond. In relation to the first one, which is a very serious matter, the Government's response to this is to pass the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Human Trafficking) Bill. Of course, not knowing the specifics of the individual case raised, but taking it as an example of a broader issue, we saw the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Human Trafficking) Bill passed in the Dáil in recent days. It is now moving forward into the Seanad. As the Deputy knows, as a person who participated here, this will put a revised national referral mechanism on a statutory footing, making it easier for victims of trafficking to come forward to be identified and to access supports. This shows how serious this country, on a legislative basis, wants to take the issue of human trafficking because the issue highlighted is indeed extremely important. We saw some progress in relation to Ireland's rating in the Trafficking in Persons report. It is nothing to write home about. We have a lot of work to do in relation to this situation. However, in 2022 we saw some positive progress made in relation to that between the legislation being brought forward by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, which will go through the Seanad, and also the human trafficking strategy. I want the Deputy, the individual he mentioned and anybody seeking to exploit Ireland to know that this is an issue we will and do take extraordinarily seriously. There is also very significant collaboration between An Garda Síochána and Europol and Interpol and, of course, police forces in the UK as well. If the Deputy wants to give me any more specifics in relation to that case, I will be happy to pursue that as well. We have seen some examples of convictions that show signs of progress.

In regard to the second part of the question, I have noted the Deputy's comments and I have read some of his questions in relation to this in public media in recent days. I accept his bona fides in raising an important issue on which the Minister wants, and indeed has sought, answers.

I need to slightly push back on the assertion with regard to the Department of Justice because I am informed that what we do know is that the details of an individual's criminal record were transmitted from the International Protection Office, IPO, of the Department to An Garda Síochána at the time of its original receipt from the UK authorities.

I am happy to allow the review to do its business. It is quite appropriate that the Minister wants to ensure the loop is closed with regard to this because we do actually have a strong legislative basis. It is very clear that anyone who comes to Ireland who has been convicted of a sex offence abroad must register.

I should also be cautious in what I say because there could potentially be criminal proceedings with regard to any hypothetical case. The law of the land is very clear regarding the obligation on any individual who is convicted of a sex offence to register and there are criminal sanctions should that person choose not to do so.

Therefore, what the Minister is seeking, and I fully support her in this regard, is clarity on this case and, indeed, any other cases like this. I know the Deputy tabled some questions today and the Minister will respond to him in that regard. However, I am satisfied that this matter is being taken seriously and that we have a firm rules-based system. We always have to keep on striving to do better. We all share that view right across government. Rules are in place. Rules need to be enforced and need to be seen to be enforced. Every person who enters this State does go through the Schengen information system, SIS, check. The SIS check is a centralised secure database used by European countries for maintaining information on what they call alerts.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

Indeed, it was that alert system that would have identified this issue.

Deputy Michael McNamara

I transmitted those questions this morning, having previously transmitted them yesterday morning and I am awaiting a response. I, too, am satisfied that we have lots of rules and legislation and even more legislation all the time. However, I am not happy that they are being applied because they are not. This is an instance in which they were not.

When it was raised in the public media last week, we were told there was a review. However, the judgment was handed down. It is not me raising a concern. The High Court stated:

It cannot be overlooked that information relating to ... [the] conviction for a sexual offence was in the possession of the Minister's agents since October, 2021 without steps being taken [...] I am troubled that this fact has not come to light sooner given the purpose of maintaining a sex offenders register as a safety and control measure ...

That judgment was handed down and was delivered to the Minister on 22 March. When was that review requested? When did that review commence? Who was appointed to carry out that review? Can we see the terms of reference of that review or was that review something that was just rustled up? I hope it was not. Was it just rustled up last week in response to press queries?

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank Deputy McNamara.

Deputy Michael McNamara

That would be entirely unacceptable.

The Taoiseach

We do have rules. Rules are enforced and need to be seen to be enforced. On occasions where there are any questions with regard to that, it is important that we can quickly move to clarify that situation.

Deputy Michael McNamara

When?

The Taoiseach

There was a judgment given. Having been a Minister in Departments, I know that when judgments come in, they are generally considered and then advice is given, and the next steps are taken. My understanding is that the review was sought by the Minister last week. The Minister will respond-----

Deputy Michael McNamara

Last week after it appeared in the media-----

The Taoiseach

The Minister will respond to the Deputy's specific-----

Deputy Michael McNamara

That is two months after the judgment was handed down. The Taoiseach is not serious about this at all.

The Taoiseach

Deputy McNamara-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please, let the Taoiseach answer without interruption.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy was late turning up for his question and now he is shouting me down. He might just give me a moment here because these are serious matters.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Yes, I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy. I was here to answer his question. When the High Court makes comments, Government Departments take them very seriously. Government Departments then appraise what action needs to be taken and advise the Minister. The Minister made the decision quite rightly to seek a review into this matter. She wants that review to provide clarity with regard to this specific case. That is important because I do not believe some of the information the Deputy mentioned in good faith is accurate. I believe that information was transmitted from the IPO to the Garda. Therefore, the review regarding the case is important. However, the Deputy's secondary point is one I think we would share.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

A review with regard to learning and making sure this has not happened in any other cases is also important.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Only after it appeared in the media.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputies. That concludes Leaders' Questions.