Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions – Dáil Éireann (34th Dáil) – Wednesday, 12 Feb 2025

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The coalition the Taoiseach leads was put together on the back of a grubby deal with Deputy Michael Lowry and his group of Independents. Since then, he and Simon Harris, the Tánaiste, have been found out for misleading the public on housing delivery figures during the election campaign. Now, he announces he will remove rent pressure zones in order to encourage private investment in housing. In other words, he will remove the only modest protection afforded to renters under this Government and leave them at the mercy of greedy corporate landlords. That is his plan.

It is further reported in the media that the Taoiseach has warned his party members to brace themselves for what he calls unpopular decisions that will be taken on housing. What are those decisions? The Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael record is one of sky-high house prices, rip-off rent and truly shameful record levels of homelessness. They may cast themselves as a new Government, but they are not bringing new or constructive ideas to the table. No, it is more of the same.

Who has the Taoiseach's ear? Who is he listening to? He is singing from the same hymn sheet as the lobby groups for big institutional property funds. "Institutional funds are an easy mark for abuse and misrepresentation". That is Pat Farrell, CEO of lobby group Irish Institutional Property, writing in the Business Post on 2 February. Of course the Taoiseach knows he is also a former Fianna Fáil general secretary and Senator. "There's been a tendency in the debate in Ireland to attack funds". That is not Pat Farrell; that is the Taoiseach speaking to the Irish Examiner last Saturday. Fianna Fáil is back in government, once again being led by the nose by lobbyists, defending the interests of big property funds, housing policy being shaped again by those who stand to make massive profit. The Taoiseach's concern is to rehabilitate the standing of vulture funds and cuckoo funds which have done untold damage. Is he aware shares in IRES REIT, the biggest corporate landlord in Ireland, jumped to an eight-month high on the back of his comments about removing rent pressure zones?

Everybody knows there needs to be private investment in housing but we do not require the Government to give carte blanche to these funds to enter the Irish market with a free hand and rip people off. That is the approach that got us into this mess. The Government has no new ideas on housing and no vision for the future of housing so the Taoiseach reverts to type and doubles down on the very approach that has failed abysmally. Is léir nach bhfuil tuairimí nua ar bith maidir le tithíocht ag an Rialtas seo atá nua, mar dhea, sa chaoi ina bhfuil siad ag lútáil mar a bheadh giolla de na cistí rachmasacha réadmhaoine. Why will the Taoiseach punish renters? What are these unpopular decisions he and his Fianna Fáil colleagues are discussing?

The Taoiseach

Is oth liom a rá go bhfuil an Teachta Dála ag insint bréag arís. Níl aon rud cruinn in aon chor sa mhéid a dúirt sí. Is olc an scéal é nach bhfuil sí sásta díospóireacht shubstaintiúil a bheith againn i gcomhthéacs cúrsaí tithíochta. I regret that normal service has been restored on the Opposition benches. The very real progress that actually has been made in the past four years is ignored-----

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

40,000 houses.

Deputy Paul Murphy

15,000 homeless.

The Taoiseach

-----and then what was said is wildly represented.

The leader of Sinn Féin said I have "announced". I did not announce anything, but I will park that for a moment. The misrepresentation goes on and on and the bottom line is that it is two weeks since I was elected Taoiseach. I have not spoken to IRES REIT or any others that Deputy McDonald announced I have. I have spoken to officials in my Department and in the Department of housing. I do not know whether the Deputy has been paying attention, but I take it she knows that the Department of housing last year commissioned The Housing Agency. It did a review of the rent pressure zones, RPZs and asked the Housing Agency to conduct a specific review of them. I presume the Deputy knew that or else she is not paying attention and this is all a charade. The reason it did so was that it wants to analyse them. Deputy Ó Broin said in May last year that the rent pressure zones are broken. That is what he said. The Housing Agency is due to report by the end of the first quarter of this year. As we know, the legislation that gave rise to the RPZs is due to expire at the end of 2025. As I said to RTÉ, there are a number of options. They can be extended or reformed in line with The Housing Commission recommendations.

I recall Deputy McDonald, Deputy Bacik and others saying the Government had ignored The Housing Commission, that it had treated The Housing Commission shabbily and did not give proper room for debate. I remember asking whether they had read the chapter on rent. The Housing Commission, which went through all aspects of housing, focused on a German system of reference pricing. I am not saying we will go with that but The Housing Commission asked that we examine it in an evidence-based and informed way. That should happen.

We should examine things rationally and with substance and not engage in the sloganeering I have heard in the past few days. I heard it yesterday evening as well, that this is about lobbyists, connections. That is the sum total of what Sinn Féin can contribute to what is a very important debate. The State is committing more than it ever has to housing. In 2025, the budget earmarked for housing is €6 billion. General estimates from the Department of Finance and The Housing Commission say that to get to 50,000 or 60,000 units, we need approximately €20 billion. I take it Sinn Féin accepts the State will not be in a position to come up with €20 billion for housing so there has to be a balance between State investment, which is at its highest ever level and will continue, and private sector investment. It is clear that brownfield sites have not taken off. That is very evident. For sustainability reasons and so on, it is an objective of Government and of the spatial plan that we develop brownfield sites.

The Government brought in protections for renters and will continue to protect renters. We brought in the rent tax credit to help renters in a very high rent environment. We acknowledge that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. You will have another opportunity.

The Taoiseach

We also brought in other protections. This is not about undermining renters, but it is about increasing supply-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Deputy McDonald.

The Taoiseach

-----which we simply have to do.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Let me assure the Taoiseach that I pay the very closest attention to the experiences of the hundreds of thousands of people who live in rental properties. I pay particular attention to those who are literally ripped off month in and month out and really struggle to meet their rent. I pay more attention again to those who have lost their homes because they simply could not make the rent or because they have had the place sold from under them.

The Taoiseach announced very clearly an end to rent pressure zones. The Tánaiste disagrees with him and it seems he has accused him of making up policy on the hoof, so there seems to be some division in the Government. There is absolute clarity that the Taoiseach's concern and priority is these funds, their reputation and standing and their ability to have what he calls a stable environment to return big profits.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Nowhere in his pronouncements has there been any concern for renters-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy McDonald. The Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----or control of rent. The Government ought to cut rents and freeze them.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy McDonald.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It will not do that. Instead it proposes to remove the single protection renters are currently afforded.

The Taoiseach

I presume Sinn Féin received Threshold's general election manifesto submission. It includes a very interesting recommendation to all political parties in respect of RPZs and long-term rental stability. The Deputy referenced funds and lobbyists. The lobbying register makes for very interesting reading with respect to the high level of activity of the Sinn Féin spokesman, Eoin Ó Broin and the various companies he has met, including Glenveigh properties-----

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

He meets everyone.

The Taoiseach

----- Vulcan consulting, Cairn Homes-----

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

He has not followed through with a policy document.

The Taoiseach

-----IBEC, on behalf of Property Industry Ireland, the Irish Institutional Property, Irish Residential Properties REIT, the Construction Industry Federation CIF, Tetra Capital Limited, Hines Real Estate Ireland Limited-----

A Deputy

The grassroots are paying attention to that.

The Taoiseach

-----Beakonshaw Limited, Hibernia Real Estate Group, the Ronan Group Real Estate about the glass bottle site, Cosgrave Property Group and Bartra Capital Property Management.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Do you agree it is not good to meet them?

The Taoiseach

The Sinn Féin spokesperson, Eoin Ó Broin, has met all of these organisations-----

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Yes, he is doing his job. What is your point?

The Taoiseach

-----and yet the full attempt by Deputy McDonald and her party in the past few days------

An Ceann Comhairle

Time is up.

The Taoiseach

-----has been to try to smear me, and others by association,-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----by saying we are responding to lobbyists. We are not.

An Ceann Comhairle

We now move to-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

On a point of order-----

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no point of order. We are out of time.

The Taoiseach

It is hypocrisy of the worst kind-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, you are out of time.

The Taoiseach

-----and it just sums up-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, please

The Taoiseach

-----the shallowness of Sinn Féin's approach.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, resume your seat.

The Taoiseach

I am interested in real change and getting things done and you are not.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, there is no point of order.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

There is actually. The Taoiseach took advantage, perhaps, of the Ceann Comhairle not following.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not a point of order.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

He accused me. He called me a liar.

An Ceann Comhairle

I did not hear those words.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

He did.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Tá mé ag insint na fírinne. He said it trí Ghaeilge and I would like him to remove it from the record.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He did it deliberately.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, I ask you to withdraw them, if you made those remarks. I am not aware. Did you call Deputy McDonald a liar?

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

He did make the remarks.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He did. The Taoiseach took advantage of the fact-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I would say-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He was taking advantage.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a salient ruling.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seats.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

Dúirt sé "ag insint bréag". Nach iad sin na focail a d'úsáid sé?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, resume your seat out of respect for the Chair. I am now standing. Please resume your seat.

A Deputy

It is a distraction.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am asking-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He took advantage of the fact that the Ceann Comhairle does not have Irish and it is disgraceful. He should withdraw the comment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will address it, if the Taoiseach made the remarks, in translation.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He did make the remarks.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, I think-----

The Taoiseach

Is féidir liom é seo a shoiléiriú má tá deacracht ag na Teachtaí Dála.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Níl aon deacracht ann.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, please resume your seat. I am standing, Deputy.

The Taoiseach

I thought you called me.

An Ceann Comhairle

I did not. I am asking for decorum. I cannot rule on what I did not hear. I accept that Deputies believe it was said.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

It was said.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has said he did not say it.

Deputy Paul Murphy

He did not say he did not say it.

An Ceann Comhairle

We can look back.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Can I ask for clarification? Is the Taoiseach standing there saying he did not accuse the leader of the Opposition of "ag insint bréag". He took advantage of the fact the Ceann Comhairle has no Irish and it is absolutely disgraceful. It is underhand. He should withdraw the remark.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputies to respect the Chair. Excuse me.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

It is the Taoiseach who has not respected you.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am asking again, Taoiseach, if you used the words, will you withdraw them?

The Taoiseach

Táim sásta-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, I did not ask you to stand up. I specifically asked you to withdraw the words, if you used them, whether they were as Béarla nó as Gaeilge.

The Taoiseach

I did not call Deputy McDonald-----

Deputy Pa Daly

He said it.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Cé atá ag insint porkies anois?

The Taoiseach

I did say, más féidir liom-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I will resume my seat and move on to Deputy Cian O'Callaghan for Leader's Questions.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

That is the new-----

An Ceann Comhairle

No, you can-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty

We can accuse anything in Irish. Is that the new standard?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

The Taoiseach has accused the leader of Sinn Féin of "ag insint bréag" and he is ag insint bréag himself by not acknowledging what he did.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, resume your seat. Deputy.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

He took advantage of the Ceann Comhairle and he is taking advantage of the Irish language by doing that also.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Doherty, you are being disrespectful to the Chair in a way of which you well aware. When the Chair is standing, you do not speak.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I apologise.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. I am moving to Leaders' Questions-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Is that what you are doing?

An Ceann Comhairle

-----and I would say to the leader of Sinn Féin that if she wishes to make a complaint in writing, we will deal with it.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I am sure the officials can assist the Ceann Comhairle in terms of what was said.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have already said-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty

The officials are there to help the Ceann Comhairle and to interpret what was said in Irish.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have told Deputy Doherty how I am dealing with it. I am moving on.

Deputy James Lawless

The list of the companies was in English, was it not?

An Ceann Comhairle

Leaders' Questions will resume with Deputy Cian O'Callaghan.

Deputy James Lawless

The REITs were in English.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Can the public trust this Government? More importantly, why should it trust his Government? I ask because people were misled by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael during the election campaign. They were misled on the issue of the number of homes that were delivered last year. The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the former Minister for housing were all adamant that the figure in that regard would be 40,000. It was nowhere near that. The deception does not end there, because there were lies of omission too. At no stage did the Taoiseach tell the public that the Government wanted to get rid of rent pressure zones and drive up rents. At no stage did he tell the public that the Government needed to pivot more strongly to the private sector. At no stage did he tell the public that the Government wanted to introduce tax breaks for developers. Does the Taoiseach think the public would have voted for all of that, namely a housing policy with a singular focus of increasing profits for developers and investment funds at the expense of first-time buyers and renters who are already paying some of the highest housing costs in Europe?

The election was just three months ago; we are not talking about the dim and distant past here. Before Christmas, the Taoiseach was spinning a story of success and a plan that was working. Now members of the Government are briefing the media that it is in the last-chance saloon and needs to make drastic changes to have any chance of meeting its targets. In true Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael fashion, those changes are entirely focused on boosting profits for multibillion euro investment funds. What about the people at the coalface of this crisis? I refer to the 500,000 adults who are stuck living in their childhood bedrooms, the couples who are postponing having families because they do not have secure homes and the 4,510 children growing up in homelessness who are missing key developmental milestones because their accommodation is so cramped and unsuitable. Fianna Fáil has been influencing housing policy since 2016, when it entered a confidence and supply arrangement in order to prop up Fine Gael. It has had nearly a decade to sort this out; instead it has lurched from crisis to catastrophe. After all that time, the best it can do is come up with tax breaks for developers. Dusting off Fianna Fáil's Celtic tiger housing plan is not an answer to the housing disaster. We all know where it ended before.

Does the Taoiseach accept that the public was misled by him during the election campaign? Will he apologise to the public for this? Why should the public believe anything he says on housing now?

The Taoiseach

I am somewhat amused that the Deputy is saying we have influenced housing policy since 2016. For the past two weeks, he has been saying that confidence and supply was in no way a precedent in the context of being involved in Government and so on.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Influence.

The Taoiseach

We were not in government from 2016 to 2020; we have been in government since 2020. The Deputy used the phrase "lies of omission".

Deputy Pa Daly

The Deputy must have been listening to the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

I would point out that the previous Government carried out a review of the rental sector last year. Following on from that, it requested the Housing Agency to conduct a specific review of the operation of the RPZ scheme. It is doing that. The review will be concluded by the end of quarter 1. That is the intended conclusion date. As the Deputy knows, the legislation that gave rise to the RPZs is due to expire by the end of 2025.

There are a number of options. We can extend it or we can examine it, which is what the Housing Commission asked us to do. The Deputy was very strong in stating the Government had ignored the Housing Commission. I kind of always suspected there was a shallowness to that attack. The bottom line is that the Housing Commission had been very clear that we should look at the matter in detail and that we should look in detail at the German system of what is called reference rent pricing. That system may not suit us. To be fair to the Housing Commission, it asked that we do it in an evidence-based way, which is what will happen.

People in the House condemned Government for not responding to the Housing Commission. Housing is the number one issue in this country. The Deputy has no monopoly on empathy for those who are struggling to get a house. That is why we dramatically increased the number of social homes in the past four years. It was a dramatic increase, compared with what had been happening in previous years. We have increased the allocation from Government to social housing quite significantly. Where we want to get to is 10,000 per annum for the long term - constructed by local authorities - and affordable homes. We have to have a strong pipeline of social housing. That will require ongoing State investment. We want to continue that focus.

We have prioritised and put a lot of investment into affordable housing, in terms of cost rental, etc., by means of a variety of schemes. We brought in capital grants in respect of derelict homes or homes that are vacant to allow couples and other people to buy such homes. The State is playing its part. It is investing hugely in the housing market, and that will continue.

If everybody accepts the ESRI figures, which suggested that we needed to get to 50,000 for the next number of years per annum, we have a big leap to make. What has struck me about the debate so far-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach. He can come back in.

The Taoiseach

-----is that it is all noise and condemnation, with very few solutions being offered.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Does the Taoiseach accept the evidence that shows the countries in Europe with the largest and most successful rental sectors also have very strong rent regulation? Does he accept the evidence that shows that rents in Ireland are among the highest in Europe?

The Taoiseach asked for solutions; I will give him just two in the time available. One would be to introduce specific zoning for affordable housing. That is done in places like Vienna, where you can rent a two-bed apartment for about €750 per month. Will the Taoiseach introduce similar zoning for affordable housing in Ireland? I have a second constructive proposal. Housing Europe published a report in 2023 in which it outlined how there were billions of euro in European Union funding streams that could be used to help build affordable housing in Ireland. That report was actually commissioned by the Taoiseach party's very own MEP in Dublin. Will the Taoiseach accept the proposals in that report and implement them?

The Taoiseach

I am not clear that there are billions of funds in Europe for housing. Any funds that are available, we would seek. However, housing competence within Europe has been at a low level. This is the first Commission with a housing Commissioner. As we have heard in various reports, the European Parliament is also now engaging for the first time.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Did the Taoiseach even read that Housing Europe report?

The Taoiseach

There are not billions available to Ireland.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Did the Taoiseach read the report?

The Taoiseach

There are not billions available from the European Union in respect of housing.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Did the Taoiseach read the report?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has asked me to respond to his two suggestions. From my engagement with Europe, I am aware that the biggest issue we will face in the context of the next financial framework is how we will increase the European budget, to which Ireland is a net contributor. There are going to be a whole range of demands on us. In Ireland, traditionally, we have always protected the Common Agricultural Policy, and research and Horizon funding, along with other issues.

In the context of zoning for affordable housing, we will examine that idea. Hopefully, we will shortly be bringing forward the national planning framework, which will deal with zoning and give us a capacity to zone more.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach. We will move to-----

The Taoiseach

Within that context, yes, we can respond to a proposal of that kind.

An Ceann Comhairle

-----the Independent and Parties Technical Group, and Deputy Ruth Coppinger.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. What are the Taoiseach's intentions in relation to the traditional St. Patrick's Day visit to the White House? This morning, we read that the Taoiseach intends to send a high-powered delegation, particularly focused on business. Is there anything that President Trump can do that will change that and prevent the Taoiseach from going? Is there any fresh hell President Trump can actually unleash in order for the Taoiseach to decide-----

The Taoiseach

Fresh-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Is there some reason the Taoiseach cannot hear me? I said "fresh hell" that he can unleash.

The Taoiseach

Pardon. It was the word "hell" I did not pick up.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

President Trump actually announced his intention to unleash hell on Gaza over the weekend.

Ireland does not have a lot of power globally. However, we do have the power not to give President Trump a photo op on an important day for Ireland globally and not to normalise what he is doing. Does the Taoiseach agree that what President Trump is proposing for Gaza is ethnic cleansing and that it would amount to a war crime? If he does agree and if he goes on St. Patrick's Day for a business-as-usual, traditional trip, he will be normalising President Trump and what he is doing.

He is has demonstrated the preparedness of the oligarchs that he has put into power to sacrifice the world and the people in it for profit and to take away the right of the Palestinian people to their traditional homeland. For what? For grubby profit, for real estate, for himself and for the people he represents who will tread over the blood and bones of the children and people of Gaza.

Trump has declared war on the Palestinian people, and I have yet to hear the Taoiseach or the Cabinet make any condemnation of that whatsoever. When President Trump, the most powerful leader of the most powerful capitalist country in the world, announces a policy based on debased morals, that is war on human rights and democracy. It is not the normal business as usual.

Is this an era when the Taoiseach can turn a blind eye? Is it an era when he can ignore the plight of the Palestinian people and the holocaust they are facing? The Taoiseach could go to the US, build links and show solidarity with those who are facing Trump's terror, namely the trans community that is being erased, the undocumented who are being deported in handcuffs - the brown ones, for starters – and the workers and students having their jobs and education slashed by the unelected oligarch Musk. The Taoiseach knows the famous poem "First They Came". I have not heard him utter any condemnation or show solidarity. I ask him to take a leaf out of the book of Reverend Mariann Edgar Budde, who called out Trump publicly to his face.

The Taoiseach

St. Patrick's Day has for many years been a substantive opportunity and occasion for Ireland, globally and in the United States, to engage with decision-makers, communities and the diaspora. We have a substantial diaspora in the United States. It is extremely important that we continue to work with our diaspora and also on our relationship with the United States. President Trump was democratically elected. He was elected by the people of the United States. One cannot ignore that reality.

The economic relationship between Ireland and the United States is extremely significant. It is worth €1 trillion. There are about 220,000 jobs in Ireland that are occupied by people who work for US multinational companies. There are a further 170,000 associated jobs. It is a huge part of our economy. Irish companies have been responsible for the creation of approximately 115,000 jobs in the United States. There are opportunities for Irish companies that export the United States. The Deputy is asking me to ignore all of that.

I am always intrigued by the hard left's approach, which ignores our economic model and thinks it is all somehow going to happen anyway. The Deputy probably does not agree with it, if she is honest. She is more interested in the concept of working people as opposed to workers themselves. She wants me to literally jettison any concern for the workers of this country, ignore any risks to their livelihoods and plough ahead with being virtuous and holding a particular view. I have a duty as Taoiseach to protect workers in this country and our economic relationships abroad, not just the United States but also with other countries with which we may not agree in terms of their policies and orientation.

On the Middle East, I ask the Deputy to talk to the Palestinian Authority and ask for its view on the Government of Ireland's response to the war on Gaza and the Middle Eastern conflict. We have solidly supported a two-state solution. We have, along with Norway, Spain and Slovenia, recognised the State of Palestine as a part of the Arab peace initiative. More than most, we have doubled down in supporting UNWRA, in terms of the very practical work of getting aid to Palestinians at a time of hell on earth in Gaza.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It will be a three-state solution-----

The Taoiseach

We need to consolidate the ceasefire. That is the most important issue for people in Gaza right now. Hamas needs to release the hostages. Its role in this has been malign, and that needs to be acknowledged. Israel needs to honour its side of the agreement. Progress has been made on the ceasefire. Aid is getting in. That is where the focus has to be.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach did not answer the central question I asked. Does he agree that Trump's plan for Gaza is ethnic cleansing? Yes or no. Can he answer that question? I do not agree that we should have an economic policy that is dependent on staying silent on genocide. An economic policy which requires that is a flawed one.

When the Taoiseach refers to consolidating the ceasefire, what Trump has announced does not consolidate a ceasefire. Rather, it makes it much more likely that the right-wing Zionists will not keep to a ceasefire because Trump has opened up the prospect of taking over Gaza, which something they have always wished for.

The diaspora is very important. I never mentioned once that we should not meet the diaspora worldwide. I said that we should make links and show solidarity.

Does the Taoiseach accept that he made an error of judgment when he went to Israel in the very early days of the genocide and pointed to a ceiling and a roof while Gaza was being flattened? Does he agree that if he goes again, greets Trump, smiles and hands over a bowl of shamrock, he will be making a another error of judgment and that history will judge him on that basis?

The Taoiseach

There was no error of judgment made, and it was not in the early days of any genocide. I visited Israel prior to 7 October. What is striking is the refusal of the Deputy, or at least Deputy Murphy and the group of which they are members, to condemn what happened on 7 October.

Deputy Paul Murphy

It was after 7 October.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach pointed to the roof after 7 October.

The Taoiseach

That was before the war started. I remember Deputy Boyd Barrett asking me in the House to help to get Irish citizens out of Gaza, while at the same time condemning me for visiting Israel. The hypocrisy, doublethink and doublespeak are extraordinary.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Is Trump's plan ethnic cleansing or not?

The Taoiseach

The only way we got Irish citizens out of Gaza was because of the diplomatic relationship we maintained and the fact we had ambassadors in Israel and Cairo who worked extremely hard to get Irish citizens out of Gaza. The Deputy would have made a pronouncement that I should not go, but at the same time asked us to get people out.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 12 Feb 2025

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

A Deputy

A Deputy

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 12 Feb 2025