Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Feb 2025

Vol. 1063 No. 2

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

"Housing delivery is the number one priority for this Government." That is the opening line of the statement issued by the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste following the first meeting of the Cabinet committee on housing. From this meeting, they had promised a slate of new and dynamic ideas, they said, to tackle the housing crisis, but that has not materialised. In fact, they have brought nothing new at all. The truth is that the Government's housing plan is in freefall after its figure of 40,000 new homes for 2024 was discovered to be a work of fiction. Now the Government has this scattered, frantic, directionless approach where it is talking about everything but dealing with nothing.

Just to remind the Taoiseach, we still have sky-high house prices - the CSO tells us €200,000 more expensive now than a decade ago. We still have rip-off rents and shocking levels of homelessness, and today a report reveals the extent to which international students are being pressurised for sex in return for rent-free housing, surely a new low. The Government proposes to end the rent pressure zones and proposes to reintroduce tax breaks for developers but it gives nothing on how the Government will deliver homes that working people can actually afford to buy or rent. After all the high-level meetings, its big centrepiece idea, it seems, is to relax planning rules to allow people to build cabins in the bottom of their gardens. Now, greater flexibility is needed in this, and we will work with the Minister to get the regulations in place. However, to cast this up as the solution to the housing crisis simply highlights just how broken and how failed the Government's response to the housing crisis is. Tinkering around at the edges does not cut it. We need a serious change of direction in housing policy, one in which the housing needs of ordinary people are prioritised and where affordability is tackled head-on.

In O'Devaney Gardens, now called Montpelier, here in Dublin, the largest Government so-called affordable housing scheme in the State, we read this morning that a two-bedroom apartment in the development can cost anything up to €402,000. That is not affordable. It is certainly not the cost we should be getting from a Government-subsidised housing scheme. This was, remember, public land on which the State should have and could have developed genuinely affordable homes, but instead the Government forced Dublin City Council to hand it over to a private developer and now we have these prices that are out of reach for the vast majority of working people.

The Taoiseach has stated that "everything is on the table" when it comes to housing, but in reality this is code for not having a clue what to do next. His so-called new Government has no new ideas and no coherent plan. Tá plean tithíochta an Rialtais ina phraiseach; mar sin, tá an cur chuige trína chéile. Níl tuairim ná freagra nua ar bith ag an Rialtas seo atá in ainm is a bheith nua, mar dhea. This Government is all over the place on housing. The big question now is when it will get its act together. When will it bring forward new ideas and solutions to this crisis?

The Taoiseach

Is léir ó 2020 amach go bhfuil dul chun cinn le feiscint ó thaobh cúrsaí tithíochta. Tá an-chuid déanta againn ach is léir maraon leis sin nach bhfuil dóthain déanta againn agus go bhfuil i bhfad níos mó le déanamh sna míonna agus na blianta atá romhainn. An tuairim atá agam féin ná go bhfuil an polasaí atá ag an Rialtas seo i bhfad níos fearr agus go mbeidh sé i bhfad níos éifeachtaí ná na polasaithe atá foilsithe ag Sinn Féin. Níl aon amhras orm faoi sin. Since 2020 onwards, there has been progress on housing. We went from 20,000 a year to over 30,000 a year. We exceeded the targets that were set in Housing for All, which were realistic targets taking variable factors into account. Given, however, the rise in the Irish population and the growth of our country, it is not enough, and I acknowledge that.

Housing is the number one issue facing us. The last Government introduced a range of schemes. This Government, only a number of weeks in office, has announced a further €450 million in additional funding for social, affordable and cost-rental homes. We are setting up a new strategic housing initiative office, as recommended by the Housing Commission. We are publishing the national planning framework to allow us to zone much more land and to enable the county councils and the city councils to zone additional land for more houses to be built. We are hitting the ground running as regards the housing agenda.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

I will contrast that with Sinn Féin's position. I acknowledge all the challenges and the pricing and so on, but the bottom line is that our schemes have helped an enormous number of first-time buyers. The help-to-buy scheme has seen about 51,000 approvals. Sinn Féin opposed it and proposed to abolish it. As regards the first home scheme, likewise, over 3,000 homes have been bought by young couples or young individuals using that scheme. Sinn Féin proposed to abolish that. That is, I believe, why the people were not persuaded by its housing policy platform. Then it had a convoluted idea under affordable housing that people could buy the house but could not buy the land on which the house was built, and a Sinn Féin government would dictate how they would sell the house subsequently, which appealed to nobody out there in respect of young people looking to buy a house for the future.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Not true. At least they could afford the houses, unlike under the Government's policy.

The Taoiseach

Those are the facts, and people made decisions based on that.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Based on the figure of 40,000.

The Taoiseach

That does not get away, however, from the need to get to 50,000 houses per annum, as the ESRI indicates are required, given our population growth. The focus has to be on initiatives that make that happen. Deputy McDonald mentioned O'Devaney Gardens. I accept that those prices are high, but they are being heavily subsidised as it is by the State, so the Deputy cannot have it both ways.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

But we told you this was going to happen. You ignored our advice.

The Taoiseach

The entire intervention in housing at the moment-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

We told you how to do it properly and you ignored our advice.

The Taoiseach

This is now repeatedly happening, a Cheann Comhairle - repeated heckling and interventions by Sinn Féin-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

I am just reminding you, Taoiseach. We gave you an alternative and you ignored it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, finish. You have 30 seconds left.

The Taoiseach

-----every time I speak on Leaders' Questions. Those sorts of intimidatory tactics and attempts to disrupt must be stopped.

An Ceann Comhairle

Taoiseach, I will handle that. You have 30 seconds left.

The Taoiseach

Well, I am just making a point-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

As am I.

The Taoiseach

-----and I am not going to take it without making the point. Deputy Ó Broin seems to be aspiring to be the leader of Sinn Féin or something. I do not know-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Absolutely not. I am happy where I am, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----but he is constantly interrupting on these matters.

As regards other initiatives we will take-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up.

The Taoiseach

-----we outlined those yesterday in the aftermath of the Cabinet subcommittee-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up now.

The Taoiseach

-----on housing, which we held on Monday.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I can only surmise that the Taoiseach wishes to deflect and comment on Sinn Féin's policies because he knows he has been caught out. He has been found out. He spoofed during the election campaign. He presented a work of fiction. It was fact flexibility from Fianna Fáil. What a novel thing - not. Now he is in the hot seat again and there is an expectation of delivery and he is showing no serious intent, much less any capacity, to actually deliver the affordable homes that working people require at scale, and no real interest in taming runaway rents - far from it.

He is quite happy to listen to his lobbyist friends and all of his old party political mates who now find themselves in other places of influence.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Hear, hear.

Deputy David Cullinane

Hear, hear.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Government has missed social and affordable housing targets every single year on the Taoiseach's watch and the typical home, as I told him, is €200,000 more expensive than it was over a decade ago.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy. The Taoiseach to respond. Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Taoiseach claims progress but the residential property price index demonstrates-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, your time is up.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----prices are up by 8.7% in the last 12 months.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

You are failing, Taoiseach. Why do you not just stand up and accept that fact?

Deputy David Cullinane

Hear, hear.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, please.

The Taoiseach

First of all, the differences in our policy platforms on housing are clear. Sinn Féin would do away with supports for first-time buyers.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

We would reduce prices and rents.

The Taoiseach

We are going to double down and continue our supports for first-time buyers in particular.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

We have very different policies.

The Taoiseach

In the first weeks of this Government we have substantially increased allocations for social, affordable and cost rental by an additional €450 million.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

But still less money this year than last.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Ó Broin, please.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

It is still less money this year than last, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

Now the big issue facing the country is outturn.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Misleading the House again.

The Taoiseach

We are not misleading anybody, Deputy.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Less money for social and affordable housing than last year.

The Taoiseach

Is this going to be a constant-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Tell the House the facts.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please stop interrupting.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Ó Broin, I have heard your leader speak, through the Chair-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, it is your leader asking the question. Allow the Taoiseach to speak. Thank you.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

I would be interested in an answer to the question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you.

The Taoiseach

This is a constant behavioural tactic of Sinn Féin to prevent the Government side of the House from at least presenting its position.

An Ceann Comhairle

When the time is up, the time is up.

The Taoiseach

The main point I was going to make is there are a number of options facing us. We have to get the private sector involved much more, as we know from all the lobbyists Deputy Ó Broin met. I also take the point that was made earlier-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Your time is up, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----in respect of public expenditure.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up.

The Taoiseach

We need to increase public expenditure-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We move to Deputy Bacik of the Labour Party.

The Taoiseach

-----on housing.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Less this year than last, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

We have to try to do both.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Less money for social and affordable housing this year than last.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you.

The Taoiseach

Whether it is a tax-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

That is the truth.

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up, Taoiseach. Thank you.

The Taoiseach

This is not satisfactory, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bacik of the Labour Party.

The Taoiseach

It is not satisfactory.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

State the facts, Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you Deputy.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Do not mislead the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bacik.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. This winter has set yet more alarming new records for people on trolleys in our emergency departments. That means more people whose care may be compromised because there is no space for them or no one to admit them. It means more risks for patients’ conditions to worsen in a place where they should expect to improve.

I welcome the new efforts the Minister for Health announced to tackle overcrowding. These are long overdue. In yesterday’s press release from her Department, she identified two issues exacerbating the problem. The first, she said, is the ongoing lack of capacity in hospitals. The second, she tells us, is the increased number of people on trolleys over weekends and on bank holidays due to lower discharge rates. She spoke strongly on radio about this earlier. These are serious issues but the single largest problem, in reality, is the continued chronic shortage of healthcare staff, including nursing staff, support staff and medical staff. The continued pause on recruitment is having a real and serious impact on healthcare in our communities and our hospitals and everyone knows this. Anyone who has recently visited a hospital knows this, so it is not just our view in the Labour Party.

Last week, the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation released its first Behind the Trolley Numbers survey conducted by nurses working in acute hospitals and treating patients on trolleys or in hospital corridors. This is the real-world experience of those on the coalface of the crisis. Their view is overwhelming. When it comes to ending overcrowding, 83% identified bed capacity and 80% said recruiting more staff are key to addressing the issue. When it comes to building hospital capacity, clearly there are a great many measures that must be taken. Some of these have been announced, in fairness, by the Minister. We would welcome these, such as the digitising of health records, which is long overdue, and new methods to increase productivity and forward planning in advance of weekends we know will place more strain on the system. Ultimately, however, these measures will come to nothing until the Taoiseach’s Government acts to recruit more healthcare workers and until it introduces ways to improve conditions for staff who are already there so we have better retention rates, because staff do not feel they are being treated with respect.

We have an ageing population, we have more complex needs than before and demand for emergency care has increased, but that is no excuse for outrageous gaps and delays in the system. Last week I raised the case of an elderly woman in my constituency. She was left waiting three hours for an ambulance to take her ten minutes up the road to a hospital. I have received contact from so many other paramedics and ambulance workers since then about they care they provide being compromised by staff shortages. When will we hear more about the new healthcare plan, specifically on staffing and working conditions? Crucially, when will the Government urgently act to carry out the necessary recruitment drive to ensure we have enough staff working in our healthcare system?

The Taoiseach

Admhaím go bhfuil brú ar na seirbhísí éigeandála, go háirithe ar na hospidéil. Bhí sé sin le feiscint ar Lá Fhéile Bríde agus an deireadh seachtaine sin. Níl sé sásúil agus tá sé sin ráite ag an Aire Sláinte. I acknowledge first of all the very significant challenges facing emergency departments, especially over St. Brigid's weekend, the pressure on people and the distress that causes to people waiting long hours in our emergency departments. The overcrowding on St. Brigid's weekend, however, which the Minister was right to highlight, was directly linked to low weekend discharges and subsequent high numbers on trolleys. This has been an issue for quite some time. The introduction of the public-only contract, which was a very significant development achieved last year, was very much linked to a changing roster arrangement and deployment of senior decision-makers in our hospitals to give weekend cover.

Historically in the public health service, weekends are the worst times to be admitted to a hospital. The House needs to engage with that. There has been enormous investment in health in the past five years by any standard, both in recruitment and infrastructure, and there needs to be more. Parallel with that investment we need to analyse forensically the deployment of people with a view to getting the optimal outcome for patients and people who attend our hospitals. We have wonderful people working in our hospitals but we have long said it cannot be five days. There has to be rostering of senior decision-makers to enable better discharge so we do not get this issue at weekends, especially bank holiday weekends, which have been a feature.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Who is in government?

The Taoiseach

There have been some successes on that front.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

How long is the Taoiseach in government?

The Taoiseach

Some hospitals, like Waterford, Tullamore and Connolly, for example, had zero or low trolley numbers as well. There is therefore a management issue as well as one of resources.

Deputy David Cullinane

Managers not consultants.

The Taoiseach

We need an increase in resources and we have been recruiting extensively. Funding has been allocated for further recruitment of staff this year, especially medical staff, nurses and allied healthcare professionals. These are issues we need to discuss and engage on with hospital management and representative bodies. It is not just about increases and increases on their own. We have to analyse deployment and ensure we get the best outcomes for patients. That is what the Minister has been highlighting in her comments and in the data she has received, especially in relation to St. Brigid's weekend.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I have acknowledged there are issues with discharge rates at weekends. Clearly there are issues with workflow and management practices, but changes in workflow and management practices are no substitute for properly addressing the real issue underlying the crisis in healthcare, which is the issue of staff shortages. We are hearing from hospitals that know they need to recruit more staff, that have identified gaps and engaged in recruitment but are not getting the go-ahead from the HSE to be able to offer the jobs. Thus, we hear from healthcare workers who are leaving for other countries because they are so chronically overworked due to staff shortages. This is not just in emergency care but across our healthcare system. The shortage of public health nurses in the community is causing babies to miss key developmental checks and the HSE has confirmed it has had to scale back its service, thereby leaving children and babies at the mercy of a postcode lottery in terms of key developmental checks.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I will ask the Taoiseach again-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----when will the Government carry out the necessary recruitment drive?

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy and call the Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

When will it end the pause on healthcare recruitment so our communities can get the healthcare we so badly need?

The Taoiseach

First of all, there is ongoing recruitment. There are now 25,000 more people working in the health service since 2020. That includes nurses and consultants. The number of consultants employed in our health service has gone up 42%. We are continuing to recruit, there is ongoing recruitment and funding was put into the Estimates for additional numbers in 2025. However, the attendances are also going up. An ageing population is putting pressure on our emergency departments. What is working best is a whole-of-hospital approach to emergency departments.

It is producing results in several hospitals. There has been analysis of certain hospitals of what has been happening within them and so on. Recruitment is ongoing and we are committed to affordable recruitment of nursing staff as well as investment in capacity-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Time is up.

The Taoiseach

-----and elective facilities such as surgical hubs and elective hospitals.

Deputy Máire Devine

That is not true.

Deputy Maurice Quinlivan

That is not true.

Deputy Ged Nash

That has not been approved.

An Ceann Comhairle

We now move to Deputy Cian O'Callaghan of the Social Democrats.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

Growing numbers of children and their families across Ireland are being left waiting for assessments of need well in excess of the legal timeframes permitted. According to the Disability Act 2005, an assessment of need must be completed within six months of the date the application is received. I have received new figures from the HSE which show that, at the end of 2024, there were 14,221 children overdue an assessment of need. That is an increase of nearly 60% compared with 2023. That is 60% in just 12 months.

As the Taoiseach knows, early intervention is key. Getting a quick assessment followed by services and supports means the child can reach their full potential. According to the HSE, the average duration of the assessment period is now more than two years - two years. Even more, when a child gets their assessment of need, they can be left waiting years for services and supports which often never materialise. The State is failing children and their families. This is creating huge stress and pressure. Children are being left behind during these critical early years of their development. To make matters worse, we cannot even rely on these figures. In some areas, manipulation of waiting lists is taking place. Some families have been told their child has been put on a waiting list to be put on a waiting list. Not only is this completely disingenuous, it adds to the significant stress and pressure families experience.

The situation is so bad that there are now several law firms who will issue a legal complaint to the HSE on a family's behalf after three months and initiate legal proceedings after six months. This typically results in the HSE providing an assessment of need through contracting a private service. Families who do not go down this route are left at the back of the queue while legal costs for the State are mounting. Instead of the State forking out money on legal fees, would it not be much better to instead spend the money on ensuring the legal timeframes are met in the first place?

During the election campaign, the Taoiseach said the establishment of multidisciplinary teams in schools, including speech and language and occupational therapists, would be a red line issue for Fianna Fáil if it were returned to Government. He also said work would begin on this on day one. Will the Taoiseach tell the 14,221 children and their families who are overdue an assessment of need what this Government is doing about it? When will the Government meet the six-month legal timeframe for completing the assessment of needs, and when will the multidisciplinary teams that were promised be put in place?

The Taoiseach

Deputy O'Callaghan is correct insofar as I identified the provision of a schools-based multidisciplinary therapy service, particularly in special schools, as a core priority and red line issue of mine. We are pursuing it. I have already had meetings with my officials and we will be convening a meeting with all relevant Ministers and agencies in respect of delivering on that. There were attempts at a pilot initiative on that front in the past year which did not yield the outcomes both the HSE and the Department anticipated it would. That was based on a HSE model. That is one initiative we have to take but it will not solve all the issues. The CDNT teams are recruiting, so it is not a funding issue. They have, however, had challenges recruiting therapists to the model established since progressing disabilities services was introduced in 2013, which has not worked. That is why I passionately believe in a schools-based system, especially in special schools to begin with.

We also must deal with the outcome of the 2022 High Court judgement of Ms Justice Phelan in the case of CTM and JA v. the HSE which found the preliminary team assessment approach described in the HSE's standing operating procedures for assessment did not meet the requirements of the Disability Act. We must deal with that through legislation. There has to be engagement if we want to move this on. This has had a huge impact on the assessment of need process and that must be acknowledged. There were issues around recruitment in that but that ruling has had, operationally, a significant impact on the situation. We need to admit that, and when I say "we", I mean we collectively in the House, but politically people may not want to deal with that. I believe we have to deal with that. It is just another step towards changing around the situation here.

We must then significantly increase the number of training places in our universities for therapists, particularly speech and language and occupational therapists, physiotherapists, audiologists and allied healthcare professionals. The last big initiative was taken when I was Minister for Health and Children in 2003 when we created new colleges. At that point, there was only one college in Ireland training speech and language therapists, but we need to double down on that in this era and create significantly more places in our third level colleges in this area. In the interim period, the HSE has been facilitating parents with private sector services and accessing private providers. I want a national health-based system for clinical assessment and then an education system for special schools.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

A total of 90% of assessment of needs are being done outside of the legal timeframe. This is the law. It is not an optional extra for the Taoiseach or the Government. I am not clear from the Taoiseach's answer if the Government is going to meet the legal requirements of the Disability Act. Is it going to take action so that 90% turns to 0% so the Taoiseach and his Government are compliant with the law on this? Is it the intention of the Government not to meet the requirements of the Disability Act? Will the Taoiseach be clear on that? Is the Government going to take action to meet the requirements of the Disability Act or is it intending not to do so and allow the current situation to continue?

The Taoiseach

We are not prepared to allow the current situation to continue. All focus will be on improving access to therapies, for children in particular, and turning around the entire approach from the earliest days of a child coming out of paediatric services. There is not a sufficient link between coming out of paediatric services and follow-on services. In some cases, however, the needs of children will not be immediately apparent. Some manifest later in a child's life, but there needs to be far greater synergy between the world of paediatrics and the follow-up and early childcare services. We also need to increase significantly the capacity, context and environment for therapists to work. There have been challenges within the CDNT teams. In many cases, the workload has been particularly onerous and many therapists have left the service. There is now a difficulty recruiting therapists to the service, notwithstanding the funding we made available to enable them to do so.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCeann Comhairle. Agus Seachtain na Gaeilge ar siúl go luath i gceann coicíse, bhí mé ag smaoineamh faoi conas a chothaítear níos mó Gaeilge a úsáid, go mór mór i measc na nÉireannach nua. I ndáiríre, tá fadhb againn. Léiríonn figiúirí ón Roinn Oideachais go bhfuil 8% de dhaltaí bunscoile sna Sé Chontae Fichead ag freastal ar Ghaelscoileanna agus go bhfuil 8.3% de na bunscoileanna sna Sé Chontae Fichead ag baint le Gaelscoileanna. Léiríonn taighde ón ESRI, áfach, go bhfuil an leibhéal éilimh ar an nGaelscolaíocht ag 23%. Tá níos mó daoine ag lorg spás sna Gaelscoileanna.

Dúirt mé an tseachtain seo chaite go gcaithfidh muid níos mó Gaelscoileanna a oscailt. Tá sé seo fíor. I measc thuismitheoirí na ndaltaí sna Gaelscoileanna atá againn anois, áfach, cé mhéad acu siúd a rugadh in Éirinn? Níl figiúirí níos deireanaí agam, ach sa bhliain 2017 measadh go raibh 6% de dhaltaí ar fud an bhunleibhéil Gaeilge, agus go raibh titim go 1.6% i mbunscoileanna lán-Ghaeilge. Tá mé cinnte go bhfuil go leor tuismitheoirí ag iarraidh go bhfoghlaimíonn a gcuid páistí Gaeilge ach níl an deis nó an t-eolas acu lena dhéanamh. Tá sé deacair nuair nach é an Béarla a gcuid teanga dúchais, gan trácht ar an nGaeilge. Mar sin, caithfidh muid féachaint i ndáiríre conas líon na nÉireannach nua a mhéadú sna Gaelscoileanna.

Is cinnte go bhfuil daoine ag cur isteach ar shaoránacht Éireannach. Is é mo thuairim ar aon nós gur cheart go mbeadh siad in ann líofacht a léiriú i gceann amháin dár dteangacha náisiúnta ar a laghad, agus leibhéal réasúnta comhrá sa teanga eile, an Ghaeilge is dócha. Is smaoineamh é sin.

Ag an am céanna, tá orainn níos mó Gaeilge a labhairt i rith an lae. Níl mé ag caint faoi Ghaeilge líofa ach faoi chomhráite Ghaeilge. Tá a fhios ag formhór na ndaoine go bhfuil caighdeán níos fearr Fraincise ag daltaí meánscoile thar an Ghaeilge tar éis sé bliana, cé go raibh ocht mbliain acu roimhe sin sa bhunscoil ag foghlaim Gaeilge. Cén fáth a bhfuil sé mar seo? Is í an dara cheist atá agam ná cad a cheapann an Taoiseach faoi chúrsaí nua sna scoileanna san ardteist nó sa junior certificate le béim ar chomhráite trí Ghaeilge?

The Taoiseach

Ar dtús báire, tá mé buíoch den Teachta as ucht an cheist seo a ardú. B’fhéidir nach bhfuil a fhios ag cách ach tá leabhar foilsithe ag Mark Henry a bhaineann le stair na tíre ó 1922 go dtí 2020 agus an méid dul chun cinn atá le feiscint in áiteanna éagsúla. Is é ceann de na figiúirí a léiríonn sé ná go bhfuil i bhfad níos mó daoine sa lá atá inniu ann ag labhairt agus ag foghlaim na Gaeilge, agus le cumas na Gaeilge acu, ná mar a bhí sa tír seo in 1922.

Tá an ceart ag an Teachta nuair a deir sé go bhfuil tionchar faoi leith, nó go raibh tionchar faoi leith, ag fás agus forbairt na nGaelscolaíochta ar na figiúirí sin. Sa Dáil seo, tá i bhfad níos mó Gaeilgeoirí tar éis a bheith tofa ná mar a bhí cheana féin. I bhFianna Fáil, tá an-chuid daoine anois againn a bhfuil cumas na Gaeilge acu. B’fhéidir go bhfuil glúin nua ag teacht ar an bhfód agus an Ghaeilge go nádúrtha acu de bharr na béime ar níos mó Gaelscoileanna agus coláistí lán-Ghaeilge ag an dara leibhéal. Caithfidh muid a chur san áireamh chomh maith go bhfuil dualgas ar an ngnáthbhunscoil an Ghaeilge a chothú agus béim a chur ar an nGaeilge.

Maidir leis na hÉireannaigh nua, caithfidh an meon a bheith ceart. Caithfidh muid gach aon iarracht a dhéanamh an Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil do na hÉireannaigh nua chun iad a mhealladh agus tacaíocht is áiseanna a thabhairt dóibh. Mar a dúirt an Teachta, ba cheart dúinn deiseanna a thabhairt dóibh an Ghaeilge a labhairt go nádúrtha gan mórán béime ar an ngramadach nó ar chruinneas na teanga agus mar sin de.

Tá an dealramh ar an scéal go bhfuil roinnt de na hÉireannaigh nua báúil don Ghaeilge. Tá fonn orthu an Ghaeilge a labhairt. Tá a fhios agam féin nuair a bhí mé ag dul timpeall na tíre ag bualadh le grúpaí áirithe go ndearna na hÉireannaigh nua iarracht an Ghaeilge a labhairt. Bhí sé sin soiléir.

Aontaím leis an Teachta go bhfuil níos mó le déanamh againn. Caithfidh muid níos mó tacaíochta a thabhairt, ní hamháin do na Gaelscoileanna ach freisin do na bunscoileanna ó thaobh áiseanna agus teicneolaíocht a chur ar fáil chun feabhas a chur ar an scéal, go háirithe sna bunscoileanna.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Taoiseach. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil caighdeán Gaeilge an-mhaith sna gnáthscoileanna freisin agus go bhfuil na hÉireannaigh nua ag lorg áiteanna chun an Ghaeilge a labhairt an t-am ar fad freisin. Tá a fhios agam sin.

Is mór is cuimhin liom nuair a bhí mé i mo mhéara ar Chomhairle Contae Átha Cliath Theas, fuarthas cuireadh ó ghrúpa reilige ar Lá Fhéile Pádraig agus bhí an ghrúpa ag canadh go leor amhrán. Chan siad amhráin as Béarla agus as Gaeilge. Ba mhór an bród a bhí ar an ngrúpa seo as a bheith ina nÉireannaigh agus as a gcuid tíortha nádúrtha ag an am céanna. Chuala mé freisin an Córán á léamh trí Ghaeilge. Tá a lán daoine ag iarraidh Gaeilge a labhairt ach caithfear an tslí a dhéanamh níos simplí. B’fhéidir go bhfuil orainn comhrá a bheith againn faoin chaighdeán Gaeilge.

The Taoiseach

Is suimiúil go raibh an taithí sin ag an Teachta nuair a bhí sé ina mhéara. B’fhéidir go léiríonn sé go bhfuil orainn i bhfad níos mó a dhéanamh ó thaobh tacaíochta a thabhairt do na grúpaí áirithe ar fud na tíre agus i measc an phobail i gcoitinne. Tá mé sásta bualadh leis na hAirí Gaeltachta agus Oideachais agus leis an Rialtas i gcoitinne faoi conas is féidir níos mó tacaíochta a thabhairt do ghrúpaí den saghas sin a luaigh an Teachta chun an Ghaeilge a labhairt. B’fhéidir go gcaithfear áiseanna a chur ar fáil dóibh chun a bheith níos compordaí agus níos muiníní as an nGaeilge a úsáid go rialta mar tá fonn orthu. Tuigeann siad go bhfuil nasc idir cumas na Gaeilge agus a bheith mar Éireannach nua, mar a dúirt an Teachta é féin.