Waste in Public Expenditure: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]

The following motion was moved by Deputy Michael Collins on Wednesday, 5 March 2025:

That Dáil Éireann:

notes that:

— overspending and waste within the public sector not only erodes trust in Government but also diverts resources from essential services; and

— as members of Dáil Éireann, and therefore custodians of the public purse, we have a duty to the people of Ireland to be committed to ensuring that taxpayers' money is managed responsibly, efficiently, and transparently;

acknowledges that there have been numerous ongoing failures by Governments past and present to properly manage cost control on Government funded projects, such as:

— the €808,000 Dáil printer scandal, where a printer was purchased but could not fit into the print room, leading to over €230,000 in modifications;

— the €725 million RTÉ bailout;

— the Office of Public Works (OPW) Government Buildings security hut at a final cost of €1.43 million;

— the National Children's Hospital overrun which has surpassed €2.5 billion;

— the €22 million on covid ventilators, that never worked, with another €50,000 spent on storing them;

— the €2.5 billion paid out in medical compensation over ten years, by the Health Service Executive;

— the OPW Leinster House bike shed at a cost of €336,000;

— the OPW Iveagh House refurbishment at a cost of €825,000;

— the National Transport Authority spend on Metro North, in the region of €300 million with nothing built;

— the OPW wall at the Workplace Relations Commission's Dublin headquarters escalated from an initial estimate of €200,000 to over €490,000;

— the electric buses, that sat idle for a year and a half because there were no chargers;

— the €7 million by the Arts Council on an Information Technology system that has never been used;

— the National Gallery scanner, purchased at €120,000, but never used because no suitable room was found; and

calls on the Government to:

— acknowledge that the historical record indicates that there is systemic dysfunction across Government in public expenditure control and oversight;

— establish within the first year of this current Government, an Independent Watchdog for Government Spending; "The Department of Efficiency and Reform":

— to be an independent entity recruited from the private sector, dedicated to monitoring and improving public sector spending;

— to operate similar to Revenue Commissioners or Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA), with a regional scope, assigned to geographic areas;

— to appoint commissioners through a competitive tender process targeting qualified private professionals, such as private sector efficiency consultants, solicitors, auditors, accountants, actuaries, tasked to address procurement and tendering processes to streamline and improve efficiency with implementation of timelines and goals for delivery of projects, with powers codified in legislation and authority similar to HIQA's inspection framework;

— to conduct unannounced audits and inspections of public bodies, Non-Governmental Organisations and agencies;

— to investigate waste, inefficiencies, or mismanagement of funds; and

— to issue recommendations or corrective measures, escalating unresolved issues to the Comptroller and Auditor General.

The following amendment No. 1 was moved by the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"notes that:

— the Government condemns the waste of any public money and notes that significant sums have been spent on providing better public services in recent years with the additional funding allocated towards improving and expanding the public services provided to our people;

— Government expenditure has provided, and continues to provide, a robust response to the challenges and needs facing the Irish nation, through continued investment, leadership, and value for money in the delivery of public services and important infrastructure projects with this investment making significant positive impacts, including:

— since 2021, completion of almost 53,000 new local authority scheme dwellings and delivery of hundreds of projects under the Rural and Urban Regeneration and Development Funds;

— significant reductions in outpatient waiting lists and improved health facilities, such as the National Forensic Mental Hospital in Portrane, hospital extensions and new primary care centres and community nursing units across the country;

— a reduction of approximately 48 per cent in the weighted average waiting time for outpatient appointments, down from just over 13 months in September 2021 to 6.8 months at the end of December 2024;

— cost barriers associated with healthcare being reduced through the abolition of inpatient charges, the introduction of the free contraception scheme, and the expansion of access to free general practitioner care to over 670,000 people, making healthcare more affordable for individuals and families;

— Ireland performing well on treatable and preventable causes of mortality and making significant improvements over the past decade, including reductions in the mortality rate for all cancers;

— Ireland being among a small group of seven European Union (EU) countries where life expectancy at birth is above 82;

— significant upgrades to Ireland's national road network and improvements to the public transport system, including BusConnects;

— high-quality cultural and sporting amenities delivered, such as the Sport Ireland Campus in Blanchardstown;

— continued progress under the National Broadband Plan, such that over 330,000 homes have now been passed and can avail of the high-quality connectivity offered by this plan;

— free schoolbooks Scheme; and

— early years childcare cost assistance to our families;

— all five budgets under the previous Government term successfully balanced the dual challenge of remaining responsive to economic and social developments, while seeking to ensure both value for money and fiscal sustainability of the public finances and this Government will continue to manage the demand for better public services and fiscal sustainability;

— Accounting Officers and accountable persons operate under high standards of administrative accountability that ensures value for money is achieved and that this accountability is fundamental to good governance, which in turn is vital to ensuring trust in public administration;

— in carrying out their duties, Accounting Officers and accountable persons operate within a range of frameworks continually developed by the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform in areas such as corporate governance, risk management, internal audit, infrastructure investment, current expenditure appraisal, standards in public office, freedom of information and financial reporting and that these frameworks have ensured both accountability and value for money through the huge expansion of public services over the last decade and have ensured that there has been and will continue to be a focus on value for money at the heart of expenditure decisions across the public sector;

—the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform will carry out a review of Public Financial Procedures with a view to further enhancing its accountability requirements in terms of providing value for money;

— over the last decade, the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform has led on the development of expenditure appraisal expertise across Government Departments through the Irish Government Economic Evaluation Service, which provides a network of analysts across Government to review the effectiveness of policies and programmes and to make proposals for improvements;

— the Office of Government Procurement provides expert guidance and advice to public bodies as to the optimisation and efficiency of their procurement function, and to provide a clear understanding of compliance obligations with National and EU law in this complex function as well as continually working with stakeholders in the public and private sectors to develop more efficient and effective procurement procedures;

— the size of Ireland's public service and expenditure is lean and efficient and provides value for money when compared to many other states with a similar economic and social model;

further notes that:

— under Budget 2025, the Government continues to invest in important public services and provides value for money, including through the expansion of health services, increases in core social welfare allowances; increased investment in housing, expansion of the School Meals Scheme;

— investment in infrastructure is a critical component in supporting Ireland's growth and in delivering better, fit-for-purpose public services, and the increased capital spend in Budget 2025 continues the delivery of a NDP that is providing the vital infrastructure we need to support our future economic and social requirements, as well as our climate change commitments;

— the delivery of capital projects has been challenged by a number of significant factors in recent years, including the continued impact of construction inflation on projects, labour shortages, particularly in the construction sector, and the ongoing delays in getting projects through the planning system;

— the Government has approved a number of priority actions to improve delivery of NDP projects, including the introduction of the Infrastructure Guidelines in December 2023, to reduce the administrative burden on Departments charged with infrastructure delivery, the Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform also chairs the reconstituted Project Ireland 2040 Delivery Board, which is charged with driving the delivery of the NDP, and these actions will boost the delivery of critical infrastructure in a sustainable and cost-effective manner, such as approximately 300 school building projects annually and BusConnects;

— the Office of Public Works has introduced new governance measures and revisions to project approval thresholds to ensure the Management Board has oversight and approval of all works above €200,000;

— the expansion of the mandatory Code of Practice for the Governance of State Bodies over the last decade and that it stipulates that 'State bodies should serve the interests of Government as a shareholder, the taxpayer and all other stakeholders, and pursue value for money in their endeavours', and that the Code is a critical framework for the application of best practice in corporate governance of both non-commercial and commercial public bodies under the aegis of Government Departments;

— international private sector internal audit standards are in effect across the Civil and Public Service bodies through their adoption of the Institute of Internal Auditors' ,'2024 Global Internal Audit standards' that came into effect worldwide on 9th January, 2025, and that the adoption of these standards ensures that Central Government's internal audit framework is the same framework as for private sector entities, albeit with some clarifications pertaining to the different public sector governance arrangements; and

— the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform is currently rolling out a major financial reporting reform that is improving and modernising Central Government's system of administrative accountability; and

acknowledges:

— the diligent, tenacious, and comprehensive investigations by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (OCAG) and his staff in fulfilling his Constitutional duties and notes the high-quality of his annual Report on the Public Services based on his office's investigations into economy and efficiency of public expenditure under section 9 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act 1993; and

— taking into account the governance frameworks already in place, ongoing work to make improvements in these frameworks, and the constitutionally independent oversight provided by the OCAG, there is no requirement for the establishment of a new body that would duplicate this work and that also would not have the same constitutionally independent and impartial role of the OCAG. ".

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "notes that:" and substitute the following:

"— there needs to be a disciplinary process for senior civil servants for instances of repeated waste of public funds;

— accountability needs to be written into the contracts of senior civil servants; and

— there should be a Minister of State for Accountability, nominated and located within the Department of the Taoiseach, to track live procurement and infrastructural projects to ensure they do not go over budget and are delivered on time, to report to the Taoiseach on a weekly basis in terms of accountability.".

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now deal with a deferred division relating to the Aontú amendment to the Government amendment to the motion regarding waste in public expenditure. Today, on the question, "That the amendment to the amendment be made", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now.

Amendment to amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 56; Níl, 102; Staon, 0.

Tá

Bennett, Cathy.
Brady, John.
Buckley, Pat.
Byrne, Joanna.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Collins, Michael.
Connolly, Catherine.
Conway-Walsh, Rose.
Coppinger, Ruth.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Cummins, Jen.
Daly, Pa.
Devine, Máire.
Doherty, Pearse.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrelly, Aidan.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Fitzmaurice, Michael.
Gannon, Gary.
Gibney, Sinéad.
Gogarty, Paul Nicholas.
Gould, Thomas.
Graves, Ann.
Guirke, Johnny.
Hayes, Eoin.
Healy, Seamus.
Hearne, Rory.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Lawless, Paul.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McGettigan, Donna.
McGuinness, Conor D.
Mitchell, Denise.
Mythen, Johnny.
Newsome Drennan, Natasha.
Ní Raghallaigh, Shónagh.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Flynn, Ken.
O'Hara, Louis.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Rice, Pádraig.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Ward, Charles.
Ward, Mark.
Whitmore, Jennifer.

Níl

Ahern, Ciarán.
Aird, William.
Ardagh, Catherine.
Bacik, Ivana.
Boland, Grace.
Brabazon, Tom.
Brennan, Brian.
Brennan, Shay.
Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Burke, Peter.
Butler, Mary.
Butterly, Paula.
Buttimer, Jerry.
Byrne, Malcolm.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Michael.
Callaghan, Catherine.
Calleary, Dara.
Canney, Seán.
Carrigy, Micheál.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Cleere, Peter 'Chap'.
Clendennen, John.
Connolly, John.
Cooney, Joe.
Crowe, Cathal.
Cummins, John.
Currie, Emer.
Daly, Martin.
Dempsey, Aisling.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Dolan, Albert.
Donohoe, Paschal.
Dooley, Timmy.
Feighan, Frankie.
Fleming, Seán.
Foley, Norma.
Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
Geoghegan, James.
Grealish, Noel.
Harkin, Marian.
Harris, Simon.
Healy-Rae, Danny.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Heneghan, Barry.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Kelly, Alan.
Kenny, Eoghan.
Keogh, Keira.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Lawlor, George.
Lowry, Michael.
Maxwell, David.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McCarthy, Noel.
McConalogue, Charlie.
McCormack, Tony.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Séamus.
McGreehan, Erin.
Moran, Kevin Boxer.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Moynihan, Shane.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Murphy, Michael.
Nash, Ged.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Neville, Joe.
Nolan, Carol.
O'Connell, Maeve.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donoghue, Robert.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Meara, Ryan.
O'Shea, John Paul.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cearúil, Naoise.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Ó Muirí, Naoise.
Richmond, Neale.
Roche, Peter.
Scanlon, Eamon.
Sheehan, Conor.
Sherlock, Marie.
Smith, Brendan.
Smith, Duncan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Timmins, Edward.
Toole, Gillian.
Troy, Robert.
Wall, Mark.
Ward, Barry.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Peadar Tóibín and Paul Lawless; Níl, Deputies Mary Butler and Emer Currie.

Amendment to amendment declared lost.

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 90; Níl, 69; Staon, 0.

Tá

Aird, William.
Ardagh, Catherine.
Boland, Grace.
Brabazon, Tom.
Brennan, Brian.
Brennan, Shay.
Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Burke, Peter.
Butler, Mary.
Butterly, Paula.
Buttimer, Jerry.
Byrne, Malcolm.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Michael.
Callaghan, Catherine.
Calleary, Dara.
Canney, Seán.
Carrigy, Micheál.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Cleere, Peter 'Chap'.
Clendennen, John.
Connolly, John.
Cooney, Joe.
Crowe, Cathal.
Cummins, John.
Currie, Emer.
Daly, Martin.
Dempsey, Aisling.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Dolan, Albert.
Donohoe, Paschal.
Dooley, Timmy.
Feighan, Frankie.
Fleming, Seán.
Foley, Norma.
Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
Geoghegan, James.
Grealish, Noel.
Harkin, Marian.
Harris, Simon.
Healy-Rae, Danny.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Heneghan, Barry.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Keogh, Keira.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Lowry, Michael.
Maxwell, David.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McCarthy, Noel.
McConalogue, Charlie.
McCormack, Tony.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Séamus.
McGreehan, Erin.
Moran, Kevin Boxer.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Moynihan, Shane.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Murphy, Michael.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Neville, Joe.
Nolan, Carol.
O'Connell, Maeve.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Meara, Ryan.
O'Shea, John Paul.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cearúil, Naoise.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Ó Muirí, Naoise.
Richmond, Neale.
Roche, Peter.
Scanlon, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Timmins, Edward.
Toole, Gillian.
Troy, Robert.
Ward, Barry.

Níl

Ahern, Ciarán.
Bacik, Ivana.
Bennett, Cathy.
Brady, John.
Buckley, Pat.
Byrne, Joanna.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Collins, Michael.
Connolly, Catherine.
Conway-Walsh, Rose.
Coppinger, Ruth.
Cronin, Réada.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Cummins, Jen.
Daly, Pa.
Devine, Máire.
Doherty, Pearse.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrelly, Aidan.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Fitzmaurice, Michael.
Gannon, Gary.
Gibney, Sinéad.
Gogarty, Paul Nicholas.
Gould, Thomas.
Graves, Ann.
Guirke, Johnny.
Hayes, Eoin.
Healy, Seamus.
Hearne, Rory.
Kelly, Alan.
Kenny, Eoghan.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Lawless, Paul.
Lawlor, George.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McGettigan, Donna.
McGuinness, Conor D.
Mitchell, Denise.
Mythen, Johnny.
Nash, Ged.
Newsome Drennan, Natasha.
Ní Raghallaigh, Shónagh.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Donoghue, Robert.
O'Flynn, Ken.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Hara, Louis.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Rice, Pádraig.
Sheehan, Conor.
Sherlock, Marie.
Smith, Duncan.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Wall, Mark.
Ward, Charles.
Ward, Mark.
Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Mary Butler and Emer Currie; Níl, Deputies Michael Collins and Richard O'Donoghue.

Amendment declared carried.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to".

The Dáil divided: Tá, 90; Níl, 69; Staon, 0.

Tá

Aird, William.
Ardagh, Catherine.
Boland, Grace.
Brabazon, Tom.
Brennan, Brian.
Brennan, Shay.
Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Burke, Peter.
Butler, Mary.
Butterly, Paula.
Buttimer, Jerry.
Byrne, Malcolm.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Michael.
Callaghan, Catherine.
Calleary, Dara.
Canney, Seán.
Carrigy, Micheál.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Cleere, Peter 'Chap'.
Clendennen, John.
Connolly, John.
Cooney, Joe.
Crowe, Cathal.
Cummins, John.
Currie, Emer.
Daly, Martin.
Dempsey, Aisling.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Dolan, Albert.
Donohoe, Paschal.
Dooley, Timmy.
Feighan, Frankie.
Fleming, Seán.
Foley, Norma.
Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
Geoghegan, James.
Grealish, Noel.
Harkin, Marian.
Harris, Simon.
Healy-Rae, Danny.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Heneghan, Barry.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Keogh, Keira.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Lowry, Michael.
Maxwell, David.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McCarthy, Noel.
McConalogue, Charlie.
McCormack, Tony.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Séamus.
McGreehan, Erin.
Moran, Kevin Boxer.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Moynihan, Shane.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Murphy, Michael.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Neville, Joe.
Nolan, Carol.
O'Connell, Maeve.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Meara, Ryan.
O'Shea, John Paul.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cearúil, Naoise.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Ó Muirí, Naoise.
Richmond, Neale.
Roche, Peter.
Scanlon, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Timmins, Edward.
Toole, Gillian.
Troy, Robert.
Ward, Barry.

Níl

Ahern, Ciarán.
Bacik, Ivana.
Bennett, Cathy.
Brady, John.
Buckley, Pat.
Byrne, Joanna.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Collins, Michael.
Connolly, Catherine.
Conway-Walsh, Rose.
Coppinger, Ruth.
Cronin, Réada.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Cummins, Jen.
Daly, Pa.
Devine, Máire.
Doherty, Pearse.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrelly, Aidan.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Fitzmaurice, Michael.
Gannon, Gary.
Gibney, Sinéad.
Gogarty, Paul Nicholas.
Gould, Thomas.
Graves, Ann.
Guirke, Johnny.
Hayes, Eoin.
Healy, Seamus.
Hearne, Rory.
Kelly, Alan.
Kenny, Eoghan.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Lawless, Paul.
Lawlor, George.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McGettigan, Donna.
McGuinness, Conor D.
Mitchell, Denise.
Mythen, Johnny.
Nash, Ged.
Newsome Drennan, Natasha.
Ní Raghallaigh, Shónagh.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Donoghue, Robert.
O'Flynn, Ken.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Hara, Louis.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Rice, Pádraig.
Sheehan, Conor.
Sherlock, Marie.
Smith, Duncan.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Wall, Mark.
Ward, Charles.
Ward, Mark.
Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Mary Butler and Emer Currie; Níl, Deputies Michael Collins and Richard O'Donoghue.

Question declared carried.

Is féidir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scríofa ar www.oireachtas.ie.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 8.27 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Déardaoin, an 6 Márta 2025.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.27 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Thursday, 6 March 2025.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 5 Mar 2025